Ihedinobi3:


I don't really see anything that limits God as to His Will. The only limits that I know of are those that He imposes on Himself

Let's see an example of such limits: "So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie" (Hebrews 11:18). Also Romans 4:3.

Since God cannot lie, we are unshakably assured that indeed, Moses, Elijah, Enoch and the rest of mankind that died have all seen corruption from whence they came - dust! Or is it not written, "For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality"? 1 Corinth. 15:53.

Just what exactly is corruption, a perishable body doing in God's abode- a domain of perfection? Oh, preservation you said. You mean God is preserving the same thing He said was corruption/perishable?

May God have mercy on us.

Ihedinobi3:

If God says that He will do a given thing, then He is bound by His Word to do it. Otherwise, nothing forces Him to do things this or that way.

Very good! This is the truth sir.

So then, be assured that God is bound to keep to His word. Have faith in His word that yes, it is appointed for every man to die once and see corruption, or for corruption to be put off before the incorruptible can be attained.

Of course, nothing is forced on God. But remember, God cannot lie.

Ihedinobi3:

It is a general principle that the bodies of human beings and animals decay, but the Lord has not bound Himself to carry out this sentence on every single case.

A lie.

Ihedinobi3:

Regarding Moses's gravesite, I don't disagree that he was buried on Earth at first.

This is a good one. It shows we are learning.

Ihedinobi3:

My position goes beyond what happened to his body at first. I hold that it was eventually taken to the third Heaven. I have raised Jude 1:9 to explain this. Do you have some other way of explaining it that does not only not attack some other part of the Scriptures, but in fact upholds and illuminates the rest of the Bible?

Oh no, sir we can't afford to take one step forward and two steps backward. This is not good.

How can you just admit that yes, Moses was buried on earth in line with the holy scripture, and at the same time, alleged that God later exhumed his body and whisked it to heaven? Please c'mon, we are all learned people here.

More disheartening is that, you're using Jude 9 as a cover or supposed proof text that Mose's body was taken to heaven for preservation. Sorry, this is you dangerously reading meanings to the scripture.

We do not know for a fact what led to archangel Michael's disagreement with Satan over the body of Moses. God does not say it, and a good Bible student or lover of the truth will readily admit it. If that knowledge was of any benefit to us, be assured that God would have let us know. The key message in Jude 9 however is not the disagreement between Michael and Satan, but the lesson therein.

Here's verse 8, "Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones". Which people? To understand, one simply have to read from verse 7 backward to be able to keep context in view.

In essence, the core message that Jude is passing in verse 9 is that, even archangel Michael, with one-third of angels under his command, could not dare blaspheme God by taking upon himself to rebuke Satan directly. Michael understood that he had no such authority on the "god of this world " (Ephesian 2:2). It can only be Christ (Matt. 4:10-11). Remember Lucifer, now Satan, was once an archangel too with one-third of angels, now demons, equally under his command (Rev. 12:4).

So dear friend, if God by His infinite wisdom chose to hide the tomb of Moses and Michael's quarrel with Satan, please respect that wisdom. Quit already from reading these meanings into scriptures.

It's ridiculous, to say the least. Really.

Ihedinobi3:

There may hav So far, it seems to me as if you have been taking wild liberties with the Scriptures here.

An irony. Many thanks.

Splinz:


Let's see an example of such limits: "So that by two unchangeable things, in which it is impossible for God to lie" (Hebrews 11:18). Also Romans 4:3.

Since God cannot lie, we are unshakably assured that indeed, Moses, Elijah, Enoch and the rest of mankind that died have all seen corruption from whence they came - dust! Or is it not written, "For this perishable body must put on the imperishable, and this mortal body must put on immortality"? 1 Corinth. 15:53.

Just what exactly is corruption, a perishable body doing in God's abode- a domain of perfection? Oh, preservation you said. You mean God is preserving the same thing He said was corruption/perishable?

May God have mercy on us.



Very good! This is the truth sir.

So then, be assured that God is bound to keep to His word. Have faith in His word that yes, it is appointed for every man to die once and see corruption, or for corruption to be put off before the incorruptible can be attained.

Of course, nothing is forced on God. But remember, God cannot lie.


A lie.



This is a good one. It shows we are learning.



Oh no, sir we can't afford to take one step forward and two steps backward. This is not good.

How can you just admit that yes, Moses was buried on earth in line with the holy scripture, and at the same time, alleged that God later exhumed his body and whisked it to heaven? Please c'mon, we are all learned people here.

More disheartening is that, you're using Jude 9 as a cover or supposed proof text that Mose's body was taken to heaven for preservation. Sorry, this is you dangerously reading meanings to the scripture.

We do not know for a fact what led to archangel Michael's disagreement with Satan. A good Bible student or lover of the truth will readily admit it. The key message in Jude 9 is not the disagreement between Michael and Satan, but the lesson therein.

Here's verse 8, "Yet in like manner these people also, relying on their dreams, defile the flesh, reject authority, and blaspheme the glorious ones". Which people? To understand, one simply have to read from verse 7 backward to be able to keep context in view.

In essence, the core message that Jude is passing is that, even archangel Michael with one-third of angels under his command, could not dare blaspheme God by taking upon himself to rebuke Satan directly. Michael understood that he had no such authority on the "god of this world " (Ephesian 2:2). It can only be Christ (Matt. 4:10-11).

So dear friend, if God by His infinite wisdom chose to hide the tomb of Moses and Michael's quarrel with Satan, please respect that wisdom. Quit already from reading these meanings into scriptures.

It's ridiculous, to say the least. Really.



An irony. Many thanks.

I'm afraid I don't see how God has guaranteed that every physical body must decay. The passage in 1 Corinthians 15 that you quoted doesn't seem to me to say anything of the sort. It only seems to me to say that for living believers who see the Lord return, their body must be changed in order to be with the Lord in eternity, since nobody can be with the Lord in eternity in this weak, sinful mortal flesh. That is, in fact, proof that the Lord makes an exception in some cases in this matter of seeing corruption. Some of us will not even see death, much less corruption, as 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 teaches.

As I have just shown you in the foregoing paragraph, Hebrews 9:27 does not contradict 1 Corinthians 15:51 any more than it contracts all of the miracles of resuscitation in the Bible. Lazarus died twice, after all, since he was raised from the dead by the Lord Jesus after he died the first time. I have never considered that any kind of contradiction of the Hebrew passage, but I wonder if you do. I don't see any sense in which it is a lie then to say that the Lord is not only at liberty to make exceptions to a general rule but that He has actually exercised that liberty.

I also know of no place where it is said that "corruption must be put off before the incorruptible can be attained." Did you have a verse in mind?

As for your compliment, I certainly thank you. I try to pay attention and be corrected when I read the Bible or discuss it with other believers who love the Truth or even when I teach, because, after all, I am only flesh and blood, sinful flesh and blood to boot. But I wish dearly that I could say the same about you.

I don't recall holding a view that Moses was not buried here on earth at all, but perhaps you know where I expressed such a belief. I would be happy to own my error, if you could point it out to me. Otherwise, I don't really see why you say that I am admitting that Moses was buried here on earth as if I held the opposite view before. That would be a deceitful thing on your part to do.

As for Jude 1:9, this is what it says:

9 But even the archangel Michael, when he was disputing with the devil about the body of Moses, did not himself dare to condemn him for slander but said, “The Lord rebuke you!”
Jude 1:9 (NIV)

That seems pretty straightforward about what the dispute was about, namely the body of Moses. Why were they disputing over it? I don't think that the Bible allows anyone to plead ignorance on the issue, given what it says about no one being able to discover where Moses's grave was and about how Moses is still going to come back during the Tribulation. If you want to insist that you or I cannot know, I can't stop you but obviously I don't have to agree with you either, your incredulity about the relocation of Moses's body notwithstanding.

I encourage you to follow your own advice, friend. If the Bible says something, try to add or take nothing from it. Respect it enough to leave it as it is. If it says that Enoch did not experience death (Hebrews 11:5), then don't say that he did. If it says that Elijah was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kings 2:1,11), then don't say that he was cast onto the earth somewhere. If it says that Moses was buried and his grave was never found but Michael had a dispute with Satan about it, then don't pretend that you cannot know what the dispute was about.

You don't have to agree with me. I could certainly be wrong, but my reading of the Bible and my advance in spiritual growth by the grace of God makes me pretty confident in the position that I have taken. So I strongly recommend accepting what I say. Still, if you cannot in good conscience accept it, believe what you will not be ashamed to present to the Lord when He judges or evaluates you, as the case may be.

MuttleyLaff:
What is easier to do? Give your response to the asked question or to wail, bleat and give a "Bros oh, you are asking the wrong person oh! I have No Power to Appoint who shall be Taken and who shall not be Taken at all, for there to be a reoccurrence. Abeg oh, I do not Determine these things" reply. Smh sigh.

I will not go outside and beyond my jurisdiction. It would be ultra vires and unlawful to do so.

MuttleyLaff:

What a right load of hay stacks of codswallop. I bet you wouldnt know the relevance of those four easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions, as you dont want your illusion to be destroyed from realising the truth, lmso.

D "innocent", indeed! I refuse to be stupid enough to let the blind, lead me.

MuttleyLaff:

Since you still want to enjoy perpetuating the export of false information please feel free to be my guest at doing just that. I am not on this thread responding because of you but only for the sake of those you might mislead with ignorant ill-informed, undereducated Bible knowledge and bad theology

And I stand upon the Truth of The Lord and you have still not rebutted, you are only saying that I am not correct and asking further questions as to the depths of my assertion, which I have answered, only further shows the Strength of my Assertion.

And you still could not rebut it nor go over it as The Things of The Lord "It's So High That You Can Never Get Over It, It's So Low, You Can Never Get Under It, It's So Wide You Can Never Get Around it, it's so Strong, You Can Never Get Through it!

So simply saying that I am wrong is not a Rebuttal!

MuttleyLaff:

"So all the days of Enoch were three hundred and sixty-five years.
(i.e. Altogether, Enoch lived a total of 365 years or so Enoch's life lasted 365 years)"
- Genesis 5:23

Did you skip English language and grammar lessons when in school ni. When you say "...He Lives!", this proves you lost focus, even before any form of question is asked you, because the word "lived" carries an interpretation that means the whole days someone was alive or the whole days someone lived.

There is no question, all there is there, is that Enoch, just as we all human beings do physically die, he too, died after 365 years on the face of the earth. Period. Unlike the other patriarchs who lived circa 800 to almost 1000 years, it was only Enoch whose life was cut short by dying at a young age of 365 years in comparison to others' ages in the biblical time line history

what a narrow mind. A whole soul, that The Lord made to be eternal, and you think it right to reduce it to a few miserly years on earth. Ok oh, it is your right.

MuttleyLaff:

Here you go again waffling stuff and nonsense, pretending that you really know the subject you're talking on, but when I lean on you and breath down neck, you uncomfortably wince, make a run for it, give some lame and flimsy excuse for not answering easy, simple, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions directly asked you

Now watch this and see how you won't disappoint me from not giving your responses to the following questions, lmso:
1/ What physically is God's form?
2/ Is God contained in form?

oh from bad to worse! Ok oh!

MuttleyLaff:

3/ You typed that "Enoch did not Die, He Lives!" then you follow on, added "Where?" with you answering with: "Beyond the Territories of the earth which are in and within The Kingdom/Domain of God!," so I hereby, now again, for the umpteen time re-ask you:
What is the name of this "Beyond the Territories of the earth which are in and within The Kingdom/Domain of God!" sic called that you believe "Enoch did not Die, He Lives!" is in, please bring up scripture verse(s) to back up your answer with. Thank you in advance for complying, lmso

I have answered you but you did not want it, as is your right.

MuttleyLaff:

I dont need to ponder on anything that I already know, as you can see from me asking you those first two questions above. if the throne is a section of a palace, (i.e. in heaven) and a footstool is a foot rest (i.e. on earth), imagine the extent of the palace, talkless the extent of the kingdom, but I aren't at all, interested in talking in talking about them lot, but all along have only been interested in telling me what is/are the name(s) of the place called, that according to the best of your knowledge and understanding where Enoch is, going by your submission that "Enoch did not Die, He Lives!" The place where Enoch is, should have a name, wouldnt it and you as intelligent and well-informed as you like portraying yourself to be, ought to know what the Bible specially, particularly and specifically calls this place?

And this is where you are really funny in insisting I tell you that which is not mine!

I know my bounds and I do not intend to ever break it. It is not my place.

Dtruthspeaker:
I will not go outside and beyond my jurisdiction. It would be ultra vires and unlawful to do so.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/10495188_9767683downloadjpeg9e044ea0ed5817381b189680f392bafe_jpege5e3763eae95babdd23fe4ed2ec9a0b4
Need I say more.

Just as I thought, that the brain, as far as you're concerned, is an ornament to decorate your body and head with, and so, you've come to the terms that you are blessed with this powerfully built processing functional gift, for no purpose, for no reason(s) and not for such a time(s) as this/these, but to use it, to cowardly cop out of answering easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions with. This is the beauty of the gift of freewill, so feel free to underuse your brain, thank you very much, lmso. OK?

Dtruthspeaker:
D "innocent", indeed! I refuse to be stupid enough to let the blind, lead me.

The irony is you are as stupid as you look. By yourself are you walking into ditches without so much as being led by anyone. What a travesty of realities. Smh sigh

Dtruthspeaker:
And I stand upon the Truth of The Lord and you have still not rebutted, you are only saying that I am not correct and asking further questions as to the depths of my assertion, which I have answered, only further shows the Strength of my Assertion.

Discoveries would have been made from you answering questions put before you and advances would have been made by you answering every one of the easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions asked and not you dodging, ducking and diving away from answering the questions. Why you feel intimidated by them easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions is baffling.

Dtruthspeaker:
And you still could not rebut it nor go over it as The Things of The Lord "It's So High That You Can Never Get Over It, It's So Low, You Can Never Get Under It, It's So Wide You Can Never Get Around it, it's so Strong, You Can Never Get Through it!

Spare us all these tired old cliché banalities

Dtruthspeaker:
So simply saying that I am wrong is not a Rebuttal!

You are so far right up in your rear end, you need to come out it, to see the light, the light of the day

Dtruthspeaker:
what a narrow mind. A whole soul, that The Lord made to be eternal, and you think it right to reduce it to a few miserly years on earth. Ok oh, it is your right.

[img]https://s5/images/sourcecfa79666e8110220.gif[/img]
This man again is at it.

"And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul.
Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
- Matthew 10:28

Look at you make another boo-boo, claiming that the God made the soul to be eternal, smh

Dtruthspeaker:
oh from bad to worse! Ok oh!

I have answered you but you did not want it, as is your right.

Let me come down to your level. Give one or two words, for the name of this "Beyond the Territories of the earth which are in and within The Kingdom/Domain of God!" sic is called, that you believe "Enoch did not Die, He Lives!" is in. Please bring up scripture verse(s) to back up what your one word or two words answer is, with. Thank you in advance for complying, lmso

Dtruthspeaker:
And this is where you are really funny in insisting I tell you that which is not mine!

I know my bounds and I do not intend to ever break it. It is not my place.

You're boko. You're a fraud, if you aren't you would know what is/are your rights, plus whats permissible and/or within understanding of Proverbs 25:2

Ihedinobi3:


I'm afraid I don't see how God has guaranteed that every physical body must decay. The passage in 1 Corinthians 15 that you quoted doesn't seem to me to say anything of the sort. It only seems to me to say that for living believers who see the Lord return, their body must be changed in order to be with the Lord in eternity

That truth does not only applies to the living but the dead as well. See verse 52. However, here's the order of event:

1. The dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thes. 4:16).

2. Secondly, those alive.

In all of these, what matters is that both the living and the dead will undergo what the scripture called changed. But what changed? A change from perishable to imperishable, from mortal to immortal (verse 53). Put another way, our earthly body is nothing but dust/corruption which much be put off for that which is perfect - immortality - eternal life!

Ihedinobi3:

Some of us will not even see death, much less corruption, as 1 Corinthians 15:50-57 teaches.

Right, the scripture rightly says so. However, it's a fact that for imperishable/immortal body to be attained, then there's of necessity for that which is perishable/corrupt to be put off (verse 50 & 53).

Ihedinobi3:

I also know of no place where it is said that "corruption must be put off before the incorruptible can be attained." Did you have a verse in mind?

Okay. Please take a look at verse 50 & 53.

Ihedinobi3:

As for your compliment, I certainly thank you. I try to pay attention and be corrected when I read the Bible or discuss it with other believers who love the Truth or even when I teach, because, after all, I am only flesh and blood, sinful flesh and blood to boot.

You do well sir.

Ihedinobi3:

But I wish dearly that I could say the same about you.

Why not? You can always count on me to be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11). Please be assured.

Ihedinobi3:

I don't recall holding a view that Moses was not buried here on earth at all, but perhaps you know where I expressed such a belief. I would be happy to own my error, if you could point it out to me. Otherwise, I don't really see why you say that I am admitting that Moses was buried here on earth as if I held the opposite view before. That would be a deceitful thing on your part to do.

There's no gain in deceit. It's simply not part of our work description. Here's what you said:

Ihedinobi3:

Both bodies were taken to the Third Heaven for preservation

You should have simply come out straight and say: 'Oh look, Moses was actually buried on earth at first. But you see, his body was later exhumed and transferred to heaven for a second burial or preservation'. It's clearer this way. Or don't you think?

However, the holy scriptures does not in anyway alludes, insinuate or even remotely say anything like that. It's purely a work of fiction. Sorry.

Ihedinobi3:

I encourage you to follow your own advice, friend. If the Bible says something, try to add or take nothing from it. Respect it enough to leave it as it is. If it says that Enoch did not experience death (Hebrews 11:5), then don't say that he did. If it says that Elijah was taken up to heaven in a whirlwind (2 Kings 2:1,11), then don't say that he was cast onto the earth somewhere.

It depends. Will you also pluck out your eyes if it causes you to sin?

You see, wisdom will always be profitable to direct. I expect you to know better.

Ihedinobi3:

So I strongly recommend accepting what I say. Still, if you cannot in good conscience accept it, believe what you will not be ashamed to present to the Lord when He judges or evaluates you, as the case may be.

Sorry friend, I can't. I wish I could agree with you: I wish it was the truth. But that's fine, we can't always agree.

Regards.

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

MuttleyLaff:
www.nairaland.com/attachments/10495188_9767683downloadjpeg9e044ea0ed5817381b189680f392bafe_jpege5e3763eae95babdd23fe4ed2ec9a0b4
Need I say more.

Just as I thought, that the brain, as far as you're concerned, is an ornament to decorate your body and head with, and so, you've to to the terms that you are blessed with this powerfully built processing functional gift, for no purpose, for no reason(s) and not for such a time(s) as this/these, but to use it, to cowardly cop out of answering easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions with. This is the beauty of the gift of freewill, so feel free to underuse your brain, thank you very much, lmso. OK?

The irony is you are as stupid as you look. By yourself are you walking into ditches without so much as being led by anyone. What a travesty of realities. Smh sigh

Discoveries would have been made from you answering questions put before you and advances would have been made by you answering every one of the easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions asked and not you dodging, ducking and diving away from answering the questions. Why you feel intimidated by them easy, simple, direct, harmless, innocent, point-blank and straightforward questions is baffling.

Spare us all these tired old cliché banalities

You are so far right up in your rear ed, you need to come out it, to see the light, the light of the day

[img]https://s5/images/sourcecfa79666e8110220.gif[/img]
This man again is at it.

"And you should not be afraid of those killing the body but not being able to kill the soul.
Indeed rather you should fear the One being able to destroy both soul and body in Gehenna."
- Matthew 10:28

Look at you make another boo-boo, claiming that the God made the soul to be eternal, smh

Let me come down to your level. Give one or two words, for the name of this "Beyond the Territories of the earth which are in and within The Kingdom/Domain of God!" sic is called, that you believe "Enoch did not Die, He Lives!" is in. Please bring up scripture verse(s) to back up what your one word or two words answer is, with. Thank you in advance for complying, lmso

You're boko. You're a fraud, if you aren't you would know what is your rights permissible and within understanding of Proverbs 25:2

You know nothing about Permissible Rights. But it's fine!

Dtruthspeaker:
You know nothing about Permissible Rights. But it's fine!

Truth is strong enough to overcome all your clever by half human sophistries.

You know enough to think you’re right, but not enough to know how wrong you are on the several accounts, you've been caught slipping up, lmso

Oftentimes, it’s just good enough to plant the seed, walk away and let the germinated seed's plant and its flower grow on their own. Sooner or latter, with the right and favourable elements you'll have an epiphany apple dropped moment.

Splinz:


That truth does not only applies to the living but the dead as well. See verse 52. However, here's the order of event:

1. The dead in Christ will rise first (1 Thes. 4:16).

2. Secondly, those alive.

In all of these, what matters is that both the living and the dead will undergo what the scripture called changed. But what changed? A change from perishable to imperishable, from mortal to immortal (verse 53). Put another way, our earthly body is nothing but dust/corruption which much be put off for that which is perfect - immortality - eternal life!



Right, the scripture rightly says so. However, it's a fact that for imperishable/immoral body to be attained, then there's of necessity for that which is perishable/corrupt to be put off (verse 50 & 53).



Okay. Please take a look at verse 50 & 53.



You do well sir.



Why not? You can always count on me to be like the Bereans (Acts 17:11). Please be assured.



There's no gain in deceit. It's simply not part of our work description. Here's what you said:


You should have simply come out straight and say: 'Oh look, Moses was actually buried on earth at first. But you see, his body was later exhumed and transferred to heaven for a second burial or preservation'. It's clearer this way. Or don't you think?

However, the holy scriptures does not in anyway alludes, insinuate or even remotely say anything like that. It's purely a work of fiction. Sorry.



It depends. Will you also pluck out your eyes if it causes you to sin?

You see, wisdom will always be profitable to direct. I expect you to know better.



Sorry friend, I can't. I wish I could agree with you: I wish it was the truth. But that's fine, we can't always agree.

Regards.

Here's what I read in 1 Corinthians 15 -

50 I declare to you, brothers and sisters, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed — 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. 53 For the perishable must clothe itself with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality. 54 When the perishable has been clothed with the imperishable, and the mortal with immortality, then the saying that is written will come true: “Death has been swallowed up in victory.” 55 “Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?” 56 The sting of death is sin, and the power of sin is the law. 57 But thanks be to God! He gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Corinthians 15:50-57 (NIV)

Not the first time I'm posting the passage either.

Again, I see no "putting off" spoken of there. I see mortality clothed with immortality and perishability clothed with imperishability. So, as I said, I see no imperative here that every physical body must decay or even taste death. That is simply not in this Scripture. I'm concerned that you are imposing your own imagination on the Bible here.

As for your objection about the dead, I was making an argument for exceptions to the Bible's statement in Hebrews 9:27, remember? You were arguing that God is bound for some reason to make everybody pass through death. That was what I was addressing. Did I really need to address the fate of the dead as well as the living in my argument?

As for your being like the Bereans, I'm afraid I don't see it. What you have been doing since I saw your posts on this thread is what Peter calls "twisting/distorting Scriptures." I'll grant that I had higher hopes for you than what you have gone on to show to me. I don't mean that I expected you to agree with me, no. Most people are chasing clout on this platform, so very few ever admit error or reevaluate their position in these debates and discussions. So, it is a rare case that anyone should express a turnaround from a demonstrated erroneous way of thinking about a given thing. I hoped for at least some deceleration in this pursuit of error that I perceived in your arguments. I haven't seen that. So I don't think you have been looking at the Bible and comparing what I have been saying to it. I think you have been dismissing my arguments and insisting on looking at the Bible in a lopsided way.

You're quite right that there is no gain in deception, but that does not mean that people don't work it for various reasons. In this matter that you are talking about, I didn't have to mention that Moses was buried initially in the Moabite valley, because I was arguing that Moses and Elijah were two more examples of unusual passage from life in this world. I think that that is obvious. The quote you made from my post did not say that Moses was never buried on Earth, did it? If you thought that it was significant to mention that he was, perhaps you should have asked me whether I believe that he was never buried on Earth. In my responses here, the level of exhaustiveness that I strive for in giving my answers sometimes leads to making decisions about what details to leave out to avoid writing an unreadable and unprofitable post.

As for what the Scriptures say, I think it is obvious that you and I disagree on this. So I won't pursue it any further.

I certainly hope that when you speak of the Lord's words in Matthew 5:29-30, you are not suggesting that we can pick and choose about it. You have already shown a similar sentiment in the way that you have handled this discussion so far, but I hope that I'm just misunderstanding you. I know that what the Lord Jesus is saying here is exactly the same as what He means by taking up your cross, denying yourself and following Him. So it is what I strive to do everyday, not that I'm terribly good at it, I certainly am not, but it is what He means.

I don't know whether you wish you could agree with me or whether you really wish that my position is the truth, but I didn't get into this discussion to change your mind about anything. Sometimes, you get involved in something because you hope that kinship and compassion will help someone out of a bad spot. Sometimes you do it because you must. But whatever the reason, the best that anyone can do is make an offer. The other party has every right to accept it or reject it. My mentor says that all the Old Testament prophets and our Lord Himself were rejected and in many cases, especially in the case of our Lord, were even murdered by the Israelites that they tried to help, so who is he to demand or expect better treatment? I mean to maintain the same attitude. I am less than nothing. Heaven knows that I am nobody, a sinful nobody. So, you need not consider me or factor my feelings into your decisions about the Truth. Believe what you are persuaded is true. In the end, you will answer to the Lord, not to me. Being able to stand before Him unashamed should be your ambition.

MuttleyLaff:
Truth is strong enough to overcome all your clever by half human sophistries.

See, you do not know what Truth is! Truth is not strong enough, you have disrespected and short changed it.

It is The Great Power of God.Psalm 119:1 and 142.

Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

and thy law is The Truth.

It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one title of the Law to fail. Luke 16:17

MuttleyLaff:

You know enough to think you’re right, but not enough to know how wrong you are on the several accounts, you've been caught slipping up, lmso

I am Right but as it is Written "they shall not hear"

MuttleyLaff:

Oftentimes, it’s just good enough to plant the seed, walk away and let the germinated seed's plant and its flower grow on their own. Sooner or latter, with the right and favourable elements you'll have a epiphany apple dropped moment

The Lord owns my heart and my everything, so no road!

Dtruthspeaker:
See, you do not know what Truth is! Truth is not strong enough, you have disrespected and short changed it.

It is The Great Power of God.Psalm 119:1 and 142.

Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the law of the Lord.

and thy law is The Truth.

It is easier for heaven and earth to pass, than one title of the Law to fail. Luke 16:17

I am Right but as it is Written "they shall not hear"

The Lord owns my heart and my everything, so no road!

You can continue in all this your shenanigans until the cows come home, your crooked sticks, still will never be straightened, no matter how much hard, you sotay, try trimming and shaving them by proof-texting with the bible, lmso.

You at least got the part right, that the Lord owns your heart and your everything, but except you and any cohort on this thread repent, your souls are destined for damnation and annihilation. Dont say youse weren't warned!

Ordinarily, I am very protective of my precious time, and prefer to prioritise what I used my precious time for, but though I knew, you're nothing other than a precious time stealer, precious time waster and precious time killer, all rolled into one, I, from a point of sense of duty, have allowed you enough of my precious, invaluable and priceless time, but right now, you have my blessing to wallow in your ignorance and enjoy taking delight in squandering your God given potentials, lmso, since engaging you is a chronomicide, on my part

MuttleyLaff:
You can continue in all this your shenanigans until the cows come home, your crooked sticks, still will never be straightened, no matter how much hard, you sotay, try trimming and shaving them by proof-texting with the bible, lmso.

You at least got the part right, that the Lord owns your heart and your everything, but except you and any cohort on this thread repent, your souls are destined for damnation and annihilation. Dont say youse weren't warned!

Ordinarily, I am very protective of my precious time, and prefer to prioritise what I used my precious time for, but though I knew, you're nothing other than a precious time stealer, precious time waster and precious time killer, all rolled into one, I, from a point of sense of duty, have allowed you enough of my precious, invaluable and priceless time, but right now, you have my blessing to wallow in your ignorance and enjoy taking delight in squandering your God given potentials, lmso, since engaging you is a chronomicide, on my part

As I had said earlier, the conclusion of the matter is that Enoch's Well-Doing in Walking with The Lord is not Mine to receive just as Koran and co's rebellion, is not Mine.

I have to Walk with The Lord Preferably like Enoch and Others who Delighted The Lord, which I very much love to do and not like Korah, who found His Displeasure, mi o fe!

Dtruthspeaker:
As I had said earlier, the conclusion of the matter is that Enoch's Well-Doing in Walking with The Lord is not Mine to receive just as Koran and co's rebellion, is not Mine.

I have to Walk with The Lord Preferably like Enoch and Others who Delighted The Lord, which I very much love to do and not like Korah, who found His Displeasure, mi o fe!

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
The usual disconnect comment(s) again being made
Show where scripture said you should walk like Enoch, lmso

MuttleyLaff:

The usual disconnect comment(s) again being made
Show where scripture said you should walk like Enoch, lmso

What else is the meaning of example or recommendation if one is not encouraged to do "likewise"?

But I know you know this, you only desire to have the last word, so, enjoy.

Dtruthspeaker:



I disagree with you all on this for if you knew God, you will know that He is The Most Dangerous Guy in the World and Anyone in Alliance and Connection with Him, is Very very Dangerous Too

Dtruthspeaker,I want to thank you for your contribution to this thread.however,next time try to coined your word when you talk about God.What make you described God as a guy and very very dangerous?
please and please, it is not good.
That a man offend God and didn't ask for mercy nor repent, even though, he has been given a long opportunity to do so and was now punish by God, does not make God to be very very dangerous.God is lovely and merciful father

Dtruthspeaker:
What else is the meaning of example or recommendation if one is not encouraged to do "likewise"?

But I know you know this, you only desire to have the last word, so, enjoy.

MuttleyLaff:
....I, from a point of sense of duty, have allowed you enough of my precious, invaluable and priceless time, but right now, you have my blessing to wallow in your ignorance and enjoy taking delight in squandering your God given potentials, lmso, since engaging you is a chronomicide, on my part

The above were my passing last word blessing to you, lmso

Darnley:

Dtruthspeaker,I want to thank you for your contribution to this thread.however,next time try to coined your word when you talk about God.What make you described God as a guy and very very dangerous?
please and please, it is not good.
That a man offend God and didn't ask for mercy nor repent, even though, he has been given a long opportunity to do so and was now punish by God, does not make God to be very very dangerous.God is lovely and merciful father

Oh, But I respectfully think and know that the Dread of The Lord is A Very Very Vital Ingredient for the Acquisition of Life In Christ Jesus.

As He Warned, "...Fear Him who after He hath killed, Hath Power To ... (Do whatever He Likes, Again and Again and Again and...)"

After having Feared, then you would be able Appreciate His Very Long Patience and Very Long Suffering and Quiet Admonishing and Kindness and Mercy and Forgiveness and Goodness and Love and Perfectly Sound, Fair and Equal Judgement.

Thereafter you would come to love Him for NOW YOU TRULY SEE AND ARE A FIRST HAND WITNESS THAT HE IS GREATER THAN GOOD And Worth Living With And If Necessary, Dying For!

[url=https://www.nairaland.com/6163840/enoch-walked-god-he-died][/url]

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
The usual disconnect comment(s) again being made
Show where scripture said you should walk like Enoch, lmso

mutt
he never said that, twister and know all nothing

Dtruthspeaker:

I have to Walk with The Lord Preferably like Enoch and Others who Delighted The Lord

Dtruthspeaker:
As I had said earlier, the conclusion of the matter is that Enoch's Well-Doing in Walking with The Lord is not Mine to receive just as Koran

I have to Walk with The Lord Preferably like Enoch and Others who Delighted The Lord, which I very much love to do and not like Korah, who found His Displeasure, mi o fe!

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
The usual disconnect comment(s) again being made
Show where scripture said you should walk like Enoch, lmso

johnw47:
mutt
he never said that, twister and know all nothing

johnw47, it is MuttleyLaff to you, and not mutt. Dont distort the import of the ID by altering/cutting/truncating it.

Look at whose defence you've come to talk out of both sides of the mouth. One second, it's "... Enoch's walking ... is not mine to receive" and the next second, changed tune to "I have to walk ... like Enoch ..."

It is glaring he said all that and it isn't twisting that he and you, know all nothing, smh sigh.

MuttleyLaff:


johnw47, it is MuttleyLaff to you, and not mutt. Dont distort the import of the ID by altering/cutting/truncating it.

Look at whose defence you've come to talk out of both sides of the mouth. One second, it's "... Enoch's walking ... is not mine to receive" and the next second, changed tune to "I have to walk ... like Enoch ..."

It is glaring he said all that and it isn't twisting that he and you, know all nothing, smh sigh.

you still confused and lying mutt
he didn't say: "I have to walk ... like Enoch ..."
he said about his walk with the Lord: "Preferably like Enoch"

see how i was right when i called you: "twister and know all nothing"

johnw47:
you still confused and lying mutt

You must be a goat, because it is goats who are stubborn and wouldnt take to being corrected that you address me as MuttleyLaff and not mutt

johnw47:
... he didn't say: "I have to walk ... like Enoch ..."
he said about his walk with the Lord: "Preferably like Enoch"

see how i was right when i called you: "twister and know all nothing"

You this premium adult scallywag, are you deliberately trying to be obtuse ni or what?

Now mister busybody, sticking nose into what doesnt concern him, please show where scripture said/says, you and/or Dtruthspeaker, should "... walk with the Lord: "Preferably like Enoch""?

MuttleyLaff:
You this premium adult scallywag, are you deliberately trying to be obtuse ni or what?

Now mister busybody, sticking nose into what doesnt concern him, please show where scripture said/says, you and/or Dtruthspeaker, should "... walk with the Lord: "Preferably like Enoch""?

hey mutt, you r such a slow poke
walking like enoch is truthspeaker preference, he not say from
bible, of course you still won't get it, u so confused
and: know all nothing

johnw47:
hey mutt, you r such a slow poke
walking like enoch is truthspeaker preference, he not say from
bible, of course you still won't get it, u so confused
and: know all nothing

Goat johnw47, are you this thick ni or you're are just plain stewpid hard of hearing.
Which of the two, does the Bible subscribe you walk like between Enoch and Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ?

johnw47:


mutt
he never said that, twister and know all nothing

Thank you johnw47, for coming to my aid for I fully appreciate it. I thank The Lord for you in not saying to the Wicked, "thou art righteous", but rebuked him.

The Lord shall give thee a good blessing as it is Written!

Dtruthspeaker:


Thank you johnw47, for coming to my aid for I fully appreciate it. I thank The Lord for you in not saying to the Wicked, "thou art righteous", but rebuked him.

The Lord shall give thee a good blessing as it is Written!

thanks, same for you

MuttleyLaff:
Goat johnw47, are you this thick ni or you're are just plain stewpid hard of hearing.
Which of the two, does the Bible subscribe you walk like between Enoch and Yahshua Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ?

someone recently told me not to waste time trying to expalin anything to a fool (specifically you)
he was right

johnw47:


you still confused and lying mutt
he didn't say: "I have to walk ... like Enoch ..."
he said about his walk with the Lord: "Preferably like Enoch"

see how i was right when i called you: "twister and know all nothing"

Thank you John. It is Exactly what I said and I meant to say but because he is evil and studieth destruction, his lips (or fingers in this case) speak mischief and lyings and pervertings (Twistings).

People are already condemned for doing these things not to even add the case of homosexuality, which makes him seek to attack me at any given opportunity.

But as it is Written "doth not He that pondereth the heart consider it? and He that keepeth thy soul, doth not He know it? and shall not He render to every man according to his works?"

I know that it is The Lord that he is fighting with and not I, so I say not much on this matter and I do not really wish to make any further comments on it.

I have told Muttley severally that he has the right to excercise his discretion to refuse to accept my assertion without any consequence from me, yet like the dog, he won't let go, so I go!

Dtruthspeaker:


Thank you John. It is Exactly what I said and I meant to say but because he is evil and studieth destruction, his lips (or fingers in this case) speak mischief and lyings and pervertings (Twistings).

People are already condemned for doing these things not to even add the case of homosexuality, which makes him seek to attack me at any given opportunity.

But as it is Written "doth not He that pondereth the heart consider it? and He that keepeth thy soul, doth not He know it? and shall not He render to every man according to his works?"

I know that it is The Lord that he is fighting with and not I, so I say not much on this matter and I do not really wish to make any further comments on it.

I have told Muttley severally that he has the right to excercise his discretion to refuse to accept my assertion without any consequence from me, yet like the dog, he won't let go, so I go!

God go with you

johnw47:


God go with you

And Also with you!

Dtruthspeaker:
Thank you John. It is Exactly what I said and I meant to say but because he is evil and studieth destruction, his lips (or fingers in this case) speak mischief and lyings and pervertings (Twistings).

People are already condemned for doing these things not to even add the case of homosexuality, which makes him seek to attack me at any given opportunity.

But as it is Written "doth not He that pondereth the heart consider it? and He that keepeth thy soul, doth not He know it? and shall not He render to every man according to his works?"

I know that it is The Lord that he is fighting with and not I, so I say not much on this matter and I do not really wish to make any further comments on it.

I have told Muttley severally that he has the right to excercise his discretion to refuse to accept my assertion without any consequence from me, yet like the dog, he won't let go, so I go!

johnw47:
someone recently told me not to waste time trying to expalin anything to a fool (specifically you)
he was right

What do you expect dumb and dumber to exchange and try "expalin" between themselves. You are a bigger fool than I am.

I am pleased that your goat brain has factory reset itself to default, there's hope for you that at least I dont need to "expalin" sense to you again about truncating the user ID MuttleyLaff

MuttleyLaff:


What do you expect dumb and dumber to exchange and try "expalin" between themselves. You are a bigger fool than I am.

I am pleased that your goat brain has factory reset itself to default, there's hope for you that at least I dont need to "expalin" sense to you again about truncating the user ID MuttleyLaff

mutt, you still confused, of course
a know all nothing