Matthew 12:22-32.

Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore, they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore, I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever, speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever, speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke those words as part of his responses to the Pharisees of His time who accused Him of healing a blind and dumb by Beelzebub, the prince of devils.
What word/words can one speak against the Holy Spirit and will not earn forgiveness in this world and the one to come?

Cc Acehart, FinallyDead

E

Bodydialect57:
Matthew 12:31-32.

Wherefore, I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
And whosoever, speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever, speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come.

ghost as in the spirit of a dead person?

Holy Spirit, the Spirit of God.

Blakjewelry:
ghost as in the spirit of a dead person?

Bodydialect57:
Matthew 12:22-32.

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke those words as part of his responses to the Pharisees of His time who accused Him of healing a blind and dumb by Beelzebub, the prince of devils.
What word/words can one speak against the Holy Spirit and will not earn forgiveness in this world and the one to come?

Hi, firstly, Jesus did all things through the power of the Holy Spirit; likewise, all Children of God will do all things through that same spirit that was in Christ. Now, what are the words, written or spoken, that will get the writer or speaker face the condemnation of hell? They are:

1. The expression of unbelief of the divine power that wrought the miracles; that is to attribute the works of Christ to Satan. eg. the verse we have up there.

2. The expression of deception; that is to attribute the works of Satan to Christ. eg. Jeremiah 8:4-13, Matthew 7:21-23.

Could you please check your mail?

Acehart:


Hi, firstly, Jesus did all things through the power of the Holy Spirit; likewise, all Children of God will do all things through that same spirit that was in Christ. Now, what are the words, written or spoken, that will get the writer or speaker face the condemnation of hell? They are:

1. The expression of unbelief of the divine power that wrought the miracles; that is to attribute the works of Christ to Satan. eg. the verse we have up there.

2. The expression of deception; that is to attribute the works of Satan to Christ. eg. Jeremiah 8:4-13, Matthew 7:21-23.

[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s5/images/ezgif-2-bb81ab7ea10d.gif[/img]

Say something na. Is it because it isn’t about same sex affairs that’s why you aren’t saying anything?

Acehart:
Say something na. Is it because it isn’t about same sex affairs that’s why you aren’t saying anything?

You really dont want me to say anything Acehart, lmso because if I do, I'll be opening up a can of worm, will be pointing to the big fat grey elephant sitting lovingly on the settee in the corner of the room, lmso, and will rock the unstable wobbly table with people standing on it, lmso.

That other thread you opened, I was wondering how you managed, not to mention that the narrative started off as and/or with temptation, then it progressed on to offences, before reaching the crescendo around the issue of, not necessarily receiving, offering of thanks, expression of gratitude, acknowledgement and/or appreciation for executing moral responsibilities and performing ones duties as of expected a child/son/daughter/man or woman of God and citizen of the kingdom of Heaven, to do, lmso.

Are you biased against loyal, committed monogamous, faithful, 10000% love same sex affairs? Do you find anything that is particularly evil/something thats intrinsically sinful in mutual consensual adults, loyal, caring, affectionate, loving, committed, monogamous, faithful, 10000% love, same sex affairs?

MuttleyLaff:
You really dont want me to say anything Acehart, lmso because if I do, I'll be opening up a can of worm, will be pointing to the big fat grey elephant sitting lovingly on the settee in the corner of the room, lmso, and will rock the unstable wobbly table with people standing on it, lmso.

That other thread you opened, I was wondering how you managed, not to mention that the narrative started off as and/or with temptation, then it progressed on to offences, before reaching the crescendo around the issue of, not necessarily receiving, offering of thanks, expression of gratitude, acknowledgement and/or appreciation for executing moral responsibilities and performing ones duties as of expected a child/son/daughter/man or woman of God and citizen of the kingdom of Heaven, to do, lmso.

Are you biased against loyal, committed monogamous, faithful, 10000% love same sex affairs? Do you find anything that is particularly evil/something thats intrinsically sinful in mutual consensual adults, loyal, caring, affectionate, loving, committed, monogamous, faithful, 10000% love, same sex affairs?

I have told you severally that I don’t care about same sex relationships. I have no word of encouragement or discouragement for those who practice it. Only God knows.

Concerning that thread, it was just a conversation between my friend and I (just the way it was). Though I mentioned the servant who did a thankless task, our concern was the meaning behind “speaking to the tree” and its relationship to the prayers we hear in many ‘worship grounds’.

So dude, rock the table so that we may have another lengthy thread that has nothing to do with homosexuality or the trinity or Jesus’ body.

Acehart:
Say something na. Is it because it isn’t about same sex affairs that’s why you aren’t saying anything?

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Acehart:
I have told you severally that I don’t care about same sex relationships. I have no word of encouragement or discouragement for those who practice it. Only God knows.

Concerning that thread, it was just a conversation between my friend and I (just the way it was). Though I mentioned the servant who did a thankless task, our concern was the meaning behind “speaking to the tree” and its relationship to the prayers we hear in many ‘worship grounds’.

So dude, rock the table so that we may have another lengthy thread that has nothing to do with homosexuality or the trinity or Jesus’ body

[img]https://media./images/14cd04951335766288c672c30e186f98/tenor.gif[/img]
Whats your problem?
What's it, eating you all up inside, huh?
Listen my friend dont get attitude uppity knickers in a twist with me. OK?

Your eyes should have cleared up now. Instead, let the proverbial sleeping dog be, you rather went to be fiddling and toying with the safety pin of a live grenade and now getting ratty, after letting you on of it. Mtcheew

From now on, mister "calling-me-dude", I beseech you, that you henceforth, stop browsing all future posts of mine and/or stop reading my comments, even if you are a lifetime subscribed member of CRA. Just keep to your lane kindly and I'll do same

Bodydialect57:
Matthew 12:22-32.

Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
23 And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
24 But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
25 And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
26 And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
27 And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore, they shall be your judges.
28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
29 Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man and then he will spoil his house.
30 He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
31 Wherefore, I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
32 And whosoever, speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever, speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke those words as part of his responses to the Pharisees of His time who accused Him of healing a blind and dumb by Beelzebub, the prince of devils.
What word/words can one speak against the Holy Spirit and will not earn forgiveness in this world and the one to come?

According to Jesus Christ, in verse 32 of Matthew 12, any word spoken against the Spirit of God Himself is unforgivable.

Matthew 12:31 (ERV)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
31. “So I tell you, people can be forgiven for every sinful thing they do and for every bad thing they say against God. But anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
32. You can even speak against the Son of Man and be forgiven. But anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven—not now or in the future.

It doesn't matter what word it is. So long as it is directly against the Spirit of God it is considered blasphemous, and as Jesus Christ said, unforgivable.

A more interesting question would be how a God who swore to forgive all our sins and remember them no more, a God who declared that if we repent and turn back to Him, He would indeed forgive us all our iniquities, would change His tone in the case.
* Are all sins no longer just that, sin, in His sight?
* Would God really refuse to hear the confessions of a man who has committed blasphemy against the Spirit of God?
* Did God change His mind?
* Did He, God, lie to us?

the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost that shall not be forgiven
is saying that the Spirit in Jesus is the spirit of beelzebub(the devil)

Mar 3:22  And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.


Mar 3:29  But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 
Mar 3:30  Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


the scribes said Jesus done His miracles by the spirit of the devil in Him.
calling the Holy Spirit in Jesus, the Spirit of the devil, is the unforgivable sin
against the Holy Spirit

Bodydialect57:
Matthew 12:22-32.
"²²Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw.
²³And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David?
²⁴But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils.
²⁵And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand:
²⁶And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand?
²⁷And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore, they shall be your judges.
²⁸But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.
²⁹Or else how can one enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind the strong man and then he will spoil his house.
³⁰He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.
³¹Wherefore, I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men.
³²And whosoever, speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever, speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come"

The Lord Jesus Christ spoke those words as part of his responses to the Pharisees of His time who accused Him of healing a blind and dumb by Beelzebub, the prince of devils.

What word/words can one speak against the Holy Spirit and will not earn forgiveness in this world and the one to come?

What is the fruit of the Holy Spirit? Would God refuse love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, endurance, gentleness and self-control. Would God forgive word/words, kicking against the fruit of the Spirit?

Kobojunkie:
According to Jesus Christ, in verse 32 of Matthew 12, any word spoken against the Spirit of God Himself is unforgivable.

It doesn't matter what word it is. So long as it is directly against the Spirit of God it is considered blasphemous, and as Jesus Christ said, unforgivable.

A more interesting question would be how a God who swore to forgive all our sins and remember them no more, and said that if we repent and turn back to Him, He would indeed forgive us all our iniquities, would change His tone in the case of this sin as described by Jesus Christ. Are all sins no longer equal?

Would God really refuse to hear the cries of a man who has committed blasphemy against the Spirit of God? Did God change His mind? Or lie to us?

"⁷Beloved, let us love one another, because love comes from God. Everyone who loves has been born of God and knows God.
⁸The one who does not love, does not know God, for God is love
¹⁸There is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves punishment,
and the one who fears is not perfected in love."
- 1 John 4:7-8,18

"Three things will last forever
— faith, hope, and love
— and the greatest of these is love."
- 1 Corinthians 13:13

Unarguably, the absence of unconditional love, denial to unconditionally love, unrecognising unconditional love is/are what's the sin(s) that cannot be forgiven, lmso.

"¹And as He passed, He saw a man blind from his mother's womb.
²And His disciples asked him and they were saying, "Our Master, who is it that has sinned, this one or his parents, that he would be born blind?"
³Yeshua said to them, "He had not sinned nor his parents, but that the works of God may appear in him.
(i.e. Jesus answered, “Neither this man nor his parents sinned, but this happened so that the works of God would be displayed in him)
- John 9:1-3

God created all people. Period. The works of God are not displayed in pedophiles or predators on children. The works of God, are not displayed in bestiality, but the works of God, however, are displayed in the lives and relationship of two consenting adult same sex attraction couple living together, where there is Proverbs 3:3 steadfast love and faithfulness/loyalty and Galatians 5:22-23's expression of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, endurance, gentleness and self-control.

Of course, only God knows and so the reason why God in His infinite wisdom, allowed same sex attraction to happen, permeate in nature, even on to human beings. Same sex attraction happened, so that the works of God would be displayed in them enough, for us, human beings, to care about others in same sex relationships, that are sexually orientation wise, different to us, and so that, we dont become unemotionally cold, detached, indifferent, far removed to the point of disconnect, that we have no word of encouragement or discouragement for those who practise monogamous committed, faithful, lovely, affectionate, trusting, caring, enjoyable, harmless, genuine long lasting until death do part mutually consensual adult same sex relationships.

Same sex attraction bordering on indulging in promiscuity, infidelity, temple prostitution and sex laced idolatry rituals is what and all God frowns up at.

It's not rocket science to suss out, that its being party to crass denying of others freedom to unconditionally practice LOVE, the kind of love what God epitomises, is what's the sin that cannot be forgiven.

MuttleyLaff:

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[img]https://media./images/14cd04951335766288c672c30e186f98/tenor.gif[/img]
Whats your problem?
What's it, eating you all up inside, huh?
Listen my friend dont get attitude uppity knickers in a twist with me. OK?

Your eyes should have cleared up now. Instead, let the sleeping dog be, you rather went to be fiddling and toying with the safety pin of a live grenade and now getting ratty, after letting you on of it. Mtcheew

From now on, mister "calling-me-dude", I beseech you, that you henceforth, stop browsing all future posts of mine and/or stop reading my comments, even if you are a lifetime subscribed member of CRA. Just keep to your lane kindly and I'll do same

I guess you are a Manchester United supporter. It wasn’t a good day, right?

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
smh lmso, as doesnt know mẹmẹ

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
smh lmso, as doesnt know mẹmẹ

Seriously dude, I don’t browse all your comments. I have told you some time ago that your are complex or rather, I am not smart enough to understand the labyrinth of your mind. But when you respond to me, I feel I’m honored by the best man in the section.

Acehart:
Seriously dude, I don’t browse all your comments. I have told you some time ago that your are complex or rather, I am not smart enough to understand the labyrinth of your mind. But when you respond to me, I feel I’m honored by the best man in the section.

[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
What a lmso attempt to dig himself out of a hole, when you're just as complex as I possibly can be

Make yourself a virgin, childlike innocent again, lmso. Doubt. Question. Sift through your thoughts. Deconstruct what you've being told is true about the world around and about you. Don't rely on the rickety, unsafe, unsteady and unsound scaffolding of regurgitated beliefs. Knowledge is learning something new, every day, while because of understanding, wisdom is letting go of something, every day, lmso.

The longest held belief does not make it the truest. Many of the so-called truths we were raised up with and forced to believe, are not absolute truths at all, lmso.

MuttleyLaff:
[img]https://s1/images/MuttAmin.gif[/img]
What a lmso attempt to dig himself out of a hole, when you're just as complex as I possibly can be

Make yourself a virgin, childlike innocent again, lmso. Doubt. Question. Sift through your thoughts. Deconstruct what you've being told is true about the world around and about you. Don't rely on the rickety, unsafe, unsteady and unsound scaffolding of regurgitated beliefs. Knowledge is learning something new, every day, while because of understanding, wisdom is letting go of something, every day, lmso.

The longest held belief does not make it the truest. Many of the so-called truths we were raised up with and forced to believe, are not absolute truths at all, lmso.

I know nothing for sure; but this I know: there is no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus; this truth applies to all including those who battle with the most understood carnal tendencies.

Now, let me speak a bit about same-sex friendships (I speak because I have seen with my eyes friendships between man and man that excel that that binds man and woman in marriage): I thought nothing vile existed. I ask one and he said: “the friendship between me and Balo pass the one wey I get with my wife...he understand me well well”; I may never know what David meant when he said: “How I weep for you, my brother Jonathan! Oh, how much I loved you! And your love for me was deep, deeper than the love of women!“ Yes! we know that Jonathan was deeply concerned for the honour of God so much that he was faithful to his rival to the throne of Israel. If anything was left out of the account of the relationship between these wonderful specimen of men who once walked the face of the Earth, it may be that nothing remained to be accounted for.

However, if one who had a matrimonial relationship with the same sex approached Elisha with the same dilemma of conscience Naaman had when he said: “In this matter may the Lord pardon your servant: when my master goes into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, when I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon your servant in this matter." Elisha would respond to the homosexual in like manner as he responded to Naaman: "Go in peace."

The Lord will help His own. I have nothing greater than the words of Elisha and Paul: let all homosexuals (joined in matrimony) who are in Christ know that there is no condemnation to them; and if they weren’t faithful to their spouse, faithful they must be as they have accepted Christ. To those who are yet to find one to whom their desires will focused on, I say: there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus; be at peace.

MuttleyLaff, the yoke of Christ is easy and His burden is light. He will help His own.

Thanks johnw47 for your contribution. However, l will be glad if you could look into these questions and perhaps give answers to them.

1.Who are those that can commit this unforgivable sin? Believers or unbelievers?

2.When can this unforgivable sin be committed? In ignorance or after coming to the knowledge of the truth?

3.From that Matthew 12, the Pharisees accused Jesus Christ of healing by the power of Beelzebub, and you agreed that this is the unforgivable sin. What happens to many, (including yourself, perhaps) who at one time or the other had accused another suspected to be working with demonic powers, who in the real sense of it might be working with the power of the Holy Spirit? Such is common here on Nairaland anyways.

4.What's the fate of those that commited this sin before they were eventually convicted and are now believers? Will the record of their sins continually be reckoned with despite the finished work of Christ?

Thanks in anticipation johnw47.

johnw47:

the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost that shall not be forgiven
is saying that the Spirit in Jesus is the spirit of beelzebub(the devil)

Mar 3:22  And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.


Mar 3:29  But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 
Mar 3:30  Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit.


the scribes said Jesus done His miracles by the spirit of the devil in Him.
calling the Holy Spirit in Jesus, the Spirit of the devil, is the unforgivable sin
against the Holy Spirit

Bodydialect57:
Thanks johnw47 for your contribution. However, l will be glad if you could look into these questions and perhaps give answers to them.

1.Who are those that can commit this unforgivable sin? Believers or unbelievers?

2.When can this unforgivable sin be committed? In ignorance or after coming to the knowledge of the truth?

3.From that Matthew 12, the Pharisees accused Jesus Christ of healing by the power of Beelzebub, and you agreed that this is the unforgivable sin. What happens to many, (including yourself, perhaps) who at one time or the other had accused another suspected to be working with demonic powers, who in the real sense of it might be working with the power of the Holy Spirit? Such is common here on Nairaland anyways.

4.What's the fate of those that commited this sin before they were eventually convicted and are now believers? Will the record of their sins continually be reckoned with despite the finished work of Christ?

Thanks in anticipation johnw47.

1. those with faith in Jesus Christ wouldn't
say He had the devil in Him
2. someone wouldn't say Jesus has the spirit of the devil
if he had come to knowledge of the truth
3. matthew 12 is Jesus specific. those who say Jesus the
Christ did miracles by the spirit of the devil, have committed
the unforgivable sin. as far as someone saying someone else
is of the devil, it's best not to unless you are sure
i might accuse someone of having satan's spirit, for instance,
if they habitually lie because i know that habitual lying is not
of the Holy Spirit, and i post scripture showing so, example:
Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
4. i doubt that the Holy Spirit would lead one who has sinned the unpardonable sin against
Him, to faith in Christ

Yeah, l know no one by the Spirit of God will say Jesus has the spirit of devil. My question is not about what is said to Jesus, but about accusing a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as having or working with demonic spirit, meanwhile, it's the Holy Spirit working. Will such accusation fit into the description of unpardonable sin?

johnw47:


1. those with faith in Jesus Christ wouldn't
say He had the devil in Him
2. someone wouldn't say Jesus has the spirit of the devil
if he had come to knowledge of the truth
3. matthew 12 is Jesus specific. those who say Jesus the
Christ did miracles by the spirit of the devil, have comitted
the unforgivable sin. as far as people saying the same of
other people, it's best not too.
i will accuse of having satans spirit ,those who habitually lie,
i know that lying is not of the Holy Spirit and i post scripture
showing so, example:
Joh 8:44  Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
4. i doubt that the Holy Spirit would lead one who has sinned the unpardonable sin against
Him, to faith in Christ

Bodydialect57:
Yeah, l know no one by the Spirit of God will say Jesus has the spirit of devil. My question is not about what is said to Jesus, but about accusing a believer in the Lord Jesus Christ as having or working with demonic spirit, meanwhile, it's the Holy Spirit working. Will such accusation fit into the description of unpardonable sin?

i answered @No 3: if the person at the time was lying then he/she was not acting on the Holy Spirit


if you wrongly accused someone of being of the devil
when they were in fact inspired by the Holy Ghost at the time,
is that an unpardonable sin?

i don't know, it would be if you were talking about Jesus Christ,
look it up, and then post back and inform, thanks in advance

Acehart:
I know nothing for sure;

What an unoriginal cop out

Acehart:
but this I know: there is no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus; this truth applies to all including those who battle which the most understood carnal tendencies.

Do you battle or struggle with giving unconditional love?

Acehart:
Now, let me speak a bit about same-sex unions friendships

[img]https://s5/images/LetsHearThis.gif[/img]
Shift, make I siddon well hear dis

Acehart:
(I speak because I have seen with my eyes friendships between man and man that excel that that binds man and woman in marriage). I thought nothing vile existed. I ask one and he said: “the friendship between me and Balo pass the one wey I get with my wife...he understand me well well”; I may never what David meant when he said: “How I weep for you, my brother Jonathan! Oh, how much I loved you! And your love for me was deep, deeper than the love of women!“ Yes! we know that Jonathan was deeply concerned for the honour of God that he was faithful to his rival to the throne of Israel. If anything was left out of the account of the relationship between these wonderful specimen of men who once walked the face of the Earth, it may be that nothing remained to be accounted for.

lmso, so it is that from both the Old Testament (e.g. 1 Samuel 20:30 and 1 Samuel 20:41) and New Testament, we see them, portray same sex attraction love and PDA in good light, albeit discreetly.

Acehart:
However, if one who had a matrimonial relationship with the same sex approached Elisha with the same dilemma of conscience Naaman had when he said: “In this matter may the Lord pardon your servant: when my master goes into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, when I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon your servant in this matter." Elisha would respond to the homosexual in like manner as he responded to Naaman: "Go in peace."

Have you ever thought why Elisha would respond, in like manner as he responded to Naaman: "Go in peace," huh? Have you thought that, maybe it is because Elisha knows that God looks at the heart of men and also that He accepts everyone who is kind, loyal, caring, trusting, loving and faithful, erhn?

Acehart:
The Lord will help His own. I have nothing greater than the words of Elisha and Paul: let all homosexuals (joined in matrimony) who are in Christ know that there is no condemnation to them. To those who are yet to find one who their desires will focused on, I say: there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus; be at peace.

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Acehart:
I have told you severally that I don’t care about same sex relationships. I have no word of encouragement or discouragement for those who practice it. Only God knows.

Obviously, campaign, after all votes are cast and election result winner has been announced, and all because you decided to scratch an itch that wasn't there.

Name three ingredients of matrimony that surpasses: love, faithfulness/commitment and relationship

Acehart:
MuttleyLaff, the yoke of Christ is easy and His burden is light. He will help His own.

"²⁸Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
²⁹Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
³⁰For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
- Matthew 11:28-30

Context is king. The yoke of Ha Mashiach aka Christ, certainly, is easy and His burden is light, for all that come to have His yoke placed on them and come to learn from Him, but its the way, saints, opting for an iron yoke, instead of one made out of leather straps and wooden crossbars, go to carry the light burden awkwardly and also, not fully or completely learn from Christ, thats a travesty of Matthew 11:28-30.

Acehart, do you know ALL that God had envisioned before, when and after He created this wonderful world, lmso, hmm?

Acehart:
I know nothing for sure;

What an unoriginal cop out

Acehart:
but this I know: there is no condemnation to them who are in Christ Jesus; this truth applies to all including those who battle which the most understood carnal tendencies.

Do you battle or struggle with giving unconditional love?

Acehart:
Now, let me speak a bit about same-sex unions friendships

[img]https://s5/images/LetsHearThis.gif[/img]
Shift, make I siddon well hear dis

Acehart:
(I speak because I have seen with my eyes friendships between man and man that excel that that binds man and woman in marriage). I thought nothing vile existed. I ask one and he said: “the friendship between me and Balo pass the one wey I get with my wife...he understand me well well”; I may never what David meant when he said: “How I weep for you, my brother Jonathan! Oh, how much I loved you! And your love for me was deep, deeper than the love of women!“ Yes! we know that Jonathan was deeply concerned for the honour of God that he was faithful to his rival to the throne of Israel. If anything was left out of the account of the relationship between these wonderful specimen of men who once walked the face of the Earth, it may be that nothing remained to be accounted for.

lmso, so it is that from both the Old Testament (e.g. 1 Samuel 20:30 and 1 Samuel 20:41) and New Testament, we see them, portray same sex attraction love and PDA in good light, albeit discreetly.

Acehart:
However, if one who had a matrimonial relationship with the same sex approached Elisha with the same dilemma of conscience Naaman had when he said: “In this matter may the Lord pardon your servant: when my master goes into the house of Rimmon to worship there, and he leans on my hand and I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, when I bow myself in the house of Rimmon, the Lord pardon your servant in this matter." Elisha would respond to the homosexual in like manner as he responded to Naaman: "Go in peace."

Have you ever thought why Elisha would respond, in like manner as he responded to Naaman: "Go in peace," huh? Have you thought that, maybe it is because Elisha knows that God looks at the heart of men and also that He accepts everyone who is kind, loyal, caring, trusting, loving and faithful, erhn?

Acehart:
The Lord will help His own. I have nothing greater than the words of Elisha and Paul: let all homosexuals (joined in matrimony) who are in Christ know that there is no condemnation to them. To those who are yet to find one who their desires will focused on, I say: there is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus; be at peace.

Name three ingredients of matrimony that surpasses: love, faithfulness/commitment and relationship

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Acehart:
I have told you severally that I don’t care about same sex relationships. I have no word of encouragement or discouragement for those who practice it. Only God knows.

Obviously, campaign, after all votes are cast and election result winner has been announced, and all because you decided to scratch an itch that wasn't there.

Acehart:
MuttleyLaff, the yoke of Christ is easy and His burden is light. He will help His own.

"²⁸Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
²⁹Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
³⁰For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
- Matthew 11:28-30

Context is king. The yoke of Ha Mashiach aka Christ, certainly, is easy and His burden is light, for all that come to have His yoke placed on them and come to learn from Him, but its the way, saints, opting for an iron yoke, instead of one made out of leather straps and wooden crossbars, go to carry the light burden awkwardly and also, not fully or completely learn from Christ, thats a travesty of Matthew 11:28-30.

Acehart, do you know the ALL, that God had envisioned before, when and/or after He created this wonderful world gifted to us, lmso, hmm?

[quote author=MuttleyLaff post=95622508]What an unoriginal cop out

Do you battle or struggle with giving unconditional love?

We all struggle.

Have you ever thought why Elisha would respond, in like manner as he responded to Naaman: "Go in peace," huh? Have you thought that, maybe it is because Elisha knows that God looks at the heart of men and also that He accepts everyone kind, loyal, caring, trusting, loving and faithful, erhn?

Muttleylaff, I do not want you to be uninformed; goodness does not equate to righteousness. God doesn't accept everyone who is kind, loyal, caring, trusting, loving, and faithful; He makes them acceptable according to His election. If those who use the flesh wrongly, do not accept the gospel, they can never be justified no matter the sweetness of their goodness. This applies to all who live according to the dictates of the god of this world.

God doesn't only look at the hearts of men; He is able to transform the hearts of men. This matter of our salvation is by the power that raised Christ from the dead, and the power that transforms by the renewing of your mind is by the same power. Elisha knew of this renewing process and he showed a great example of how to deal with young converts - Young converts must be tenderly dealt with. Elisha was an overseer who was sensible, sound in faith, and love(may all overseers know that all that should be known of men is that they come to know Christ and Him crucified, and it would be sensible to be oblivious of their personal preferences).

Name three ingredients of matrimony that surpasses: love, faithfulness/commitment and relationship

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Obviously, campaign, after all votes are cast and election result winner has been announced, and all because you decided to scratch an itch that wasn't there.

Yes, I had cast my vote! Thank God for another election. This time, with clarity of thought, marinated with the word of God, I had voted to write my last response.

"²⁸Come to Me, all you who labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
²⁹Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me, for I am gentle and lowly in heart, and you will find rest for your souls.
³⁰For My yoke is easy and My burden is light.”
- Matthew 11:28-30

Context is king. The yoke of Ha Mashiach aka Christ, certainly, is easy and His burden is light, for all that come to have His yoke placed on them and come to learn from Him, but its the way, saints, opting for an iron yoke, instead of one made out of leather straps and wooden crossbars, go to carry the light burden awkwardly and also, not fully or completely learn from Christ, thats a travesty of Matthew 11:28-30.

Acehart, do you know the ALL, that God had envisioned before, when and/or after He created this wonderful world gifted to us, lmso, hmm?

If "context is king", you wouldn't have fluffed when you said Elisha went to Shiloh to offer a sacrifice to God. I would not have you uninformed, again, regarding Shiloh: With the loss of the ark to the Philistines at Aphek, Shiloh was rejected as the chosen place, and there was no place in which Jehovah's name dwelt until the building of Solomon's temple in Jerusalem. Have you forgotten that Elijah built an altar to Yahweh at Carmel (1 Ki 18: 30-32) and complained that the Israelites had destroyed the altars of Jehovah (1 Ki 19: 14)? Ps 78 states that Shiloh was the place where Jehovah first made his dwelling, but when?

In the temple sermons of Jeremiah, Jer 7: 12-15 and 26: 4-6,9 I see that Shiloh was the most important sanctuary in the pre-monarchic period, which was destroyed before Elisha was born; so how could he go to pay obeisance there?

I want you to know that I wasn't doing an exposition on Matt.11:28-30, but I was using the verse in the light of Acts 15:9-10 - if God has purified the heart of any gay, I would not lay yoke on them that would cause them to be discriminated against.

There is no sin that is unforgivable if you truly repent and forsake it..God has told us. Even if your heart is as black as coal ,I can make it as white as snow....

Jesus is not God, he can't dictate to God what he wants or change Gods commandmemts ..(thats is if he actually existed )

Acehart:
We all struggle

Interesting to know you admit that you battle and/or struggle with giving unconditional love?

Acehart:
Muttleylaff, I do not want you to be uninformed; goodness does not equate to righteousness.

"Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person,
though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die"
- Romans 5:7

Acehart, you're not showing you are aware that Bodydialect57 opened the thread with a header question that asked: "What Is The Sin That Cannot Be Forgiven?" sic, and much later on, at the end of body of the thread precisely, asked this further question:
"What word/words can one speak against the Holy Spirit and will not earn forgiveness in this world and the one to come?" sic, now brother, of course, goodness does not equate to righteousness, but do you know why goodness does not equate to righteousness, lmso. Well, it simply is because righteousness is living up to the letter of the law and not the spirit of the law, lmso, while goodness is going a step above righteousness, lmso. You didnt at all know that before now, isn't it, lmso. I hope you being uninformed about that dont find the info "complex", lmso

Acehart:
God doesn't accept everyone who is kind, loyal, caring, trusting, loving, and faithful ...

God accepts all that manifest the fruit of the Spirit, which evident in Galatians 5:22-23 are:
love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, humility, endurance, gentleness and self-control

I am sure that you would agree that one cannot manifest the fruit of the spirit without the assistance of God’s holy spirit, lmso. I am sure that you would agree that God accepts everyone that manifests the fruit of the spirit, which is: "kind, loyal, caring, trusting, loving, and faithful" sic

Acehart:
... He makes them acceptable according to His election.

Fyi, we all made acceptable according to whatever we've opted for or chosen to do and that God permits. Cases in point, lmso, Satan was made acceptable according to God's election. Pharaoh was made acceptable according to God's election. King Saul was made acceptable according to God's election. Judas Iscariot was made acceptable according to God's election. Hitler was made acceptable according to God's election. Abacha was made acceptable according to God's election et cetera, lmso

Acehart:
If those who use the flesh wrongly, do not accept the gospel, they can never be justified no matter the sweetness of their goodness. This applies to all who live according to the dictates of the god of this world.

You really doesnt know mẹmẹ. Please articulate in a specified and identifying way, how your so-called, those who use the flesh wrongly, are using the flesh wrongly.

You dont really know what the gospel is. They are not justified because of manifesting the fruit of the Spirit, lmso, but they are justified by having the very righteousness of God in Christ because they have been made right with God through Christ.

They are just-if-ied because of, the if, of Yahusha Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ. On the condition of believing in and on Yahusha Ha Mashiach aka Jesus Christ, they automatically, are justified. Praise God. Alleluia!

Acehart:
God doesn't only look at the hearts of men; He is able to transform the hearts of men. This matter of our salvation is by the power that raised Christ from the dead, and the power that transforms by the renewing of your mind is by the same power.

Why not be specific about what exactly it is in the hearts of men, that pinpointedly needs transforming the hearts of men over and/or say exactly what is renewing of your mind specifically about, hmm?

Acehart:
Elisha knew of this renewing process and he showed a great example of how to deal with young converts - Young converts must be tenderly dealt with. Elisha was an overseer who was sensible, sound in faith, and love (may all overseers know that all that should be known of men is that they come to know Christ and Him crucified, and it would be sensible to be oblivious of their personal preferences).

Thank you for reinforcing my earlier point above about not living up to the letter of the law but to live up to the spirit of the law, lmso. Elisha sensibly knew that you don't throw, especially the washed up baby, out with the bathwater, lmso

[img]https://media./images/b33c7a944898a824e58840ce2829cdbf/tenor.gif[/img]

Bodydialect57:
Thanks johnw47 for your contribution. However, l will be glad if you could look into these questions and perhaps give answers to them.
1. .Who are those that can commit this unforgivable sin? Believers or unbelievers?

The only ones who can commit this unforgivable sin are those who have the Spirit of God(the seal of the New Covenant/agreement between God and man) i.e. those who are born again. According to Jesus Christ, only those who have shown themselves worthy of Him, become followers of Jesus Christ(born again) - only these can commit such a sin against the seal of the New Covenant.

Bodydialect57:
2. When can this unforgivable sin be committed? In ignorance or after coming to the knowledge of the truth?

As far as the sin of blasphemy, as described by Jesus Christ, is concerned, it is a sin directed against the Spirit of Truth Himself, so this sin has to be intentional for it to be against the intended, the Spirit of Truth a.k.a. the Spirit of God.

Bodydialect57:
3 a. From that Matthew 12, the Pharisees accused Jesus Christ of healing by the power of Beelzebub, and you agreed that this is the unforgivable sin.

The Pharisees in question were not guilty of committing the unforgivable sin, as described by Jesus Christ. Remember, they did not believe in Jesus Christ and so were not members of the New Covenant that is Jesus Christ. Instead, they believed in God and His Old Covenant with the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and so could not be held to any agreement that they were not a part of, in this case, Jesus Christ.
As part of the Old Covenant between God and the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, God stipulated that any Israelite who blasphemed against Him, YHWH, was to be put to death immediately. OK, so did the Pharisees/Teachers of the law commit blasphemy according to the Old Covenant, when they accused Jesus Christ of doing miracles by the power of Beelzebub? No, The Teachers of the Law in this case did not do that either. Recall that they did not believe in Jesus Christ and His claim to be from God, so they were not in breach of the blasphemy law as stipulated in the Old Covenant.

Jesus Christ, however, took the occasion to define the New Covenant version of the Blasphemy Law. According to Jesus Christ, it was not speaking against Him, Jesus Christ, or against, God, the Father, that was unforgivable(deserving of death as in the Old Covenant)but instead speaking against the Spirit of God(the seal of the New Covenant) unforgivable, and like the Old Covenant, this law/decree applied to only those who were a part of the New Covenant, and not just anyone out there.
So what ended up happening was that Jesus Christ used that opportunity, like He had done several times before, to teach His followers of yet another commandment that is a part of the new Covenant/agreement that He Jesus Christ is, between God and man.

Bodydialect57:
3 b. [/b]What happens to many, (including yourself, perhaps) who at one time or the other had accused another suspected to be working with demonic powers, who in the real sense of it might be working with the power of the Holy Spirit? Such is common here on Nairaland anyways.

Nothing! Accusing someone of working with demonic powers when you believe it to be is not really a sin, nor is it an unforgivable one at all. Only God Himself can tell you if the Spirit working in another is His or not His, and in the absence of that confirmation from God Himself, I would vote that you doubt them all until you have evidence not to.

Bodydialect57:
[b] 4a. What's the fate of those that committed this sin before they were eventually convicted and are now believers?

Death by the Spirit of God, as opposed to stoning in the Old Covenant days!

Bodydialect57:
4b. Will the record of their sins continually be reckoned with despite the finished work of Christ? Thanks in anticipation johnw47.

Record of sin? What record of sins? When you become a believer, God forgives you all of your sins and gifts you with eternal life. You become a servant of God, expected to do the works stipulated by your Master, in obedience to His commandments.

Luke 12 vs 35-48 (ERV)
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35. “Stay dressed for action[f] and keep your lamps burning,
36. and be like men who are waiting for their master to come home from the wedding feast, so that they may open the door to him at once when he comes and knocks.
37. Blessed are those servants[g] whom the master finds awake when he comes. Truly, I say to you, he will dress himself for service and have them recline at table, and he will come and serve them.
38. If he comes in the second watch, or in the third, and finds them awake, blessed are those servants!
39. But know this, that if the master of the house had known at what hour the thief was coming, he[h] would not have left his house to be broken into.
40. You also must be ready, for the Son of Man is coming at an hour you do not expect.”

41. Peter said, “Lord, are you telling this parable for us or for all?”
42. And the Lord said, “Who then is the faithful and wise manager, whom his master will set over his household, to give them their portion of food at the proper time?
43. Blessed is that servant[i] whom his master will find so doing when he comes.
44. Truly, I say to you, he will set him over all his possessions.
45. But if that servant says to himself, ‘My master is delayed in coming,’ and begins to beat the male and female servants, and to eat and drink and get drunk,
46. the master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he does not know and will cut him in pieces and put him with the unfaithful.
47. And that servant who knew his master's will but did not get ready or act according to his will, will receive a severe beating.
48. But the one who did not know, and did what deserved a beating, will receive a light beating. Everyone to whom much was given, of him, much will be required, and from him to whom they entrusted much, they will demand the more.

This is how you earn a place in the Kingdom of God. Once, Born again, what matters, is not how much sin you committed or did not commit, but whether you did the work that was commanded or not, in obedience to the commandments of Jesus Christ. Of course in the case of one who commits the unforgivable sin, I doubt Heaven will be an option after that.

Kobojunkie:
The only ones who can commit this unforgivable sin are those who have the Spirit of God(the seal of the New Covenant/agreement between God and man) i.e. those who are born again. According to Jesus Christ, only those who have shown themselves worthy of Him, become followers of Jesus Christ(born again) - only these can commit such a sin against the seal of the New Covenant.

so, those with the Holy Spirit, those who are born again, those who have shown themselves worthy of Him, are the ones that Jesus was referring to

absolutely not, how many Christians with the Holy Spirit, those who are born again, those who have shown themselves worthy of Him, have you heard of that have said Jesus had the spirit of the devil

but i'm sure plenty of unbelievers, atheists, satanists, antichrists etc. say it though

when Jesus said: "the sin against the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven", He was referring to the scribes -pharisees who had just said it, and not to His faithful

Mar 3:22  And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils.


Mar 3:29  But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation: 
Mar 3:30  Because they(the scribes) said, He hath an unclean spirit.


only a non believer could blaspheme the Holy Spirit
in this way, a person saying Jesus had the spirit of
the devil is obviously not a believer, could be a fake
christian though, plenty of them

johnw47:
so, those with the Holy Spirit, those who are born again, those who have shown themselves worthy of Him, are the ones that Jesus was referring to

Remember, the New Covenant was directed, not at those who did not believe, but those who would choose to FOLLOW HIM.

johnw47:
absolutely not, how many Christians with the Holy Spirit, those who are born again, those who have shown themselves worthy of Him, have you heard of that have said Jesus had the spirit of the devil

Again, remember what Jesus Christ Himself said to you there in Mattew 12, speaking against Jesus Christ will not earn you that penalty -- it is speaking against the Spirit of God Himself that will do just that.
The one example of this incident is the case of Ananias and Sapphira in the Book of Acts 5, but I suggest you start reading from chapter 4.

johnw47:
but i'm sure plenty of unbelievers, atheists, satanists, antichrists etc. say it though

Even believers say it too and nothing happens because they are not under the oath of the New Covenant.

johnw47:
when Jesus said: "the sin against the Holy Ghost won't be forgiven", He was referring to the scribes -pharisees who had just said it, and not to His faithful

Read those verses again, but thing time, let the scripture read itself to you. Jesus Christ did not directly accuses them of committing the sin in question. So, why do you conclude that He did?

Mark 3 vs 20-26 (ESV)
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20. Then Jesus went home, but again a large crowd gathered there. There were so many people that he and his followers could not eat.
21. His family heard about all these things. They went to get him because people said he was crazy.
22. And the teachers of the law from Jerusalem said, “Satan[a] is living inside him! He uses power from the ruler of demons to force demons out of people.”
23. So Jesus called them together and talked to them using some stories. He said, “Satan will not force his own demons out of people.
24. A kingdom that fights against itself will not survive.
25. And a family that is divided will not survive.
26. If Satan is against himself and is fighting against his own people, he will not survive. That would be the end of Satan.

In the Mark 3 account, Jesus Christ went home and the one's He gathered onto Himself were not the Teachers of the law who accused Him of using the powers of Satan but His followers and people gathered to hear Him teach them.

In Matthew 12, you also see that Jesus Christ does not directly attack the Pharisees in His declaration but is instead teaching and we know that He did not really direct His teachings at the Pharisees and Scribes but instead His followers, and the crowds that gathered to learn from Him often.

Matthew 12 vs 22-26 (ESV)
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22. Then some people brought a man to Jesus. This man was blind and could not talk, because he had a demon inside him. Jesus healed the man, and he could talk and see.
23. All the people were amazed at what Jesus did. They said, “Maybe he is the promised Son of David!”
24. When the Pharisees heard this, they said, “This man uses the power of Satan[d] to force demons out of people. Satan is the ruler of demons.”
25. Jesus knew what the Pharisees were thinking. So he said to them, “Every kingdom that fights against itself will be destroyed. And every city or family that is divided against itself will not survive.
26. So if Satan forces out his own demons,[e] then he is fighting against himself, and his kingdom will not survive.
27. You say that I use the power of Satan to force out demons. If that is true, then what power do your people use when they force out demons? So your own people will prove that you are wrong.
28. But I use the power of God’s Spirit to force out demons, and this shows that God’s kingdom has come to you.
29. Whoever wants to enter a strong man’s house and steal his things must first tie him up. Then they can steal the things from his house.
30. Whoever is not with me is against me. And anyone who does not work with me is working against me.
31. “So I tell you, people can be forgiven for every sinful thing they do and for every bad thing they say against God. But anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven.
32. You can even speak against the Son of Man and be forgiven. But anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven—not now or in the future.

Remember, Jesus did not come to do away with the Old Covenant, and the Pharisees and Scribes were Old Covenant believers, so it would have been tyrannical even, of Jesus Christ to subject them to laws completely different from those they believed in.
According to the Old Covenant, blasphemy was speaking against God Himself, and yes, there were Israelites who did just that and paid for it with their lives too. Jesus Christ's New Covenant commandment instead specified that blasphemy was speaking against the Spirit of God instead, and it is my belief that the unforgivable part of it is that the penalty is death by the Spirit of God... immediately taking away any chances one has at forgiveness after committing such an act.