I'm sure we're not new to the whole Ikwerre-Igbo argument and this has been going for so long and nobody from either places are ready to concede. I'm here to tell you why.

I will start by stating my personal opinion on the matter.

If you have followed me on Nairaland, you will know that in the earlier years of Nairaland, I felt it was stupid not to think of Ikwerre as Igbo but in recent years, I've changed my perception which is not to discount the Ikwerre and Igbo link but rather to concede the fact that people have the right to call themselves what they so choose. I mean, it can be insulting to tell someone who they are even though they claim otherwise. It doesn't matter the reason why such a person thinks he's not Igbo whether factual or plain lies. Afteral Ethnic Groups are to a large extent an artificial creation.

Now, back to my argument...

The reason most Ikwerres say they are not Igbo is visible the moment you cross Ore(in Yorubaland). It is evident that it was not only Igbo groups that were not centralized. Even around Edo state where you had the famous Benin empire, that was what it was, an empire. However, some different groups in that empire did not see themselves as coming from the same stock. That is why despite the glaring similarities between Bini and Esan, they are distinct groups despite being in the same state.

It is the same story in Delta state where despite the closeness in language between Urhobos and Isokos, they are classed as 2 different groups when one could be a dialect of the other.

Akwa Ibom and Cross River is another typical example. When you hear people speaking languages from those 2 states which most Nigerians call 'Calabar', it sounds pretty the same but people from the groups will tel you that they are either Efik, Ibibio, Annang or even Oron.

So, with these examples, you can see that a lot of these groups were not centralized and as such do not favour coming together to form a large formidable group.

The same thing can be said of Ikwerre and some other Igboid groups that distance themselves from the Igbo tag. They see Igbos the way isokos see Urhobos and the same way Efiiks see Ibibios. They know they have a lot of similarities with each other but they have created an identity no matter how little and that is why they would rather be their own group.

Having said that, there's a small difference in the relationship between urhobos and Isokos, Efiks, Ibibios and Annangs to the relationship between Igbos and Ikwerres.

While the former groupps are to a large extent cordial to each other, it's a tricky situation between Igbos and Ikwerres. Yes, Igbos and Ikwerres mix, marry and all but Ikwerres have the feeling that Igbo want to dominate them. They could be right or wrong but you can't exactly false that entire premise because they can't really understand why Igbos can't let them be who they want to be without forcing it down their throat.

That's why a lot of Ikwerres who can speak central Igbo are even wary of speaking of Speaking Igbo to Igbo people because that may make whoever they're speaking it with think that they're Igbos. That's why you notice that Ikwerres find every possible thing to further move away from the Igbo tag. Even if it means claiming to have migrated from Benin.

So, in conclusion, Ikwerre could be an Igbo dialect in another universe but the way things stand right now, it's almost impossible and their wish to be called Ikwerres should not be disrespected.

Afam, the long and short is that over time people develop their own identity. Wherever they came from originally is history.

Urhobo, Isoko, Esan, Afemai and many more know when they left Benin Area. All roughly between 700 and 500 years ago. Nobody is forcing Beniness down their throat.

When you too enthusiastically want to dictate people's identity to them, they are bound to be suspicious about the motives.

AreaFada2:
Afam, the long and short is that over time people develop their own identity. Wherever they came from originally is history.

Urhobo, Isoko, Esan, Afemai and many more know when they left Benin Area. All roughly between 700 and 500 years ago. Nobody is forcing Beniness down their throat.

When you too enthusiastically want to dictate people's identity to them, they are bound to be suspicious about the motives.

My point exactly.

in summary, ikwerre is not igbo but igbos like attachee by force. so much arrogance

From claiming isreali, guinea and their neighbors, the igbos like to leech unto anything good.

TheLionofLasigi:
From claiming isreali, guinea and their neighbors, the igbos like to leech unto anything good.

What is good about ikwerre?

Your point is very clear.
However, what doesn't sit right is intentional revisionism of history.
Ikwerres don't speak an Igboid language; they speak Igbo. In fact,they speak raw unadulterated Igbo even considering the various "non-Igbo" ethnic groups they have mingled with for years.
When you speak Igbo, your culture, customs and the names of your villages are Igbo,your surname is Igbo,then only a fool would need to be told that he is Igbo.
I don't begrudge them of claiming to come from wherever, but the burden lies on them to keep on explaining to an Hausa,Yoruba or other foreigners how they are not Igbo but migrated several centuries ago from who knows where.

sageb:
in summary, ikwerre is not igbo but igbos like attachee by force. so much arrogance

Keep on with your bigotry.
Tomorrow now you'd start wondering why nobody is patronizing your business.

michelz:
Your point is very clear.
However, what doesn't sit right is intentional revisionism of history.
Ikwerres don't speak an Igboid language; they speak Igbo. In fact,they speak raw unadulterated Igbo even considering the various "non-Igbo" ethnic groups they have mingled with for years.
When you speak Igbo, your culture, customs and the names of your villages are Igbo,your surname is Igbo,then only a fool would need to be told that he is Igbo.
I don't begrudge them of claiming to come from wherever, but the burden lies on them to keep on explaining to an Hausa,Yoruba or other foreigners how they are not Igbo but migrated several centuries ago from who knows where.

This same thing you said about Ikwere and Igbo, just replace it with Urhobo and Isoko or Efik and Ibibio so that you can understand where i'm coming. That's not to say that you don't have a point in your assessment of the situation. But like i said Ikwerre people do not see it with the same eyes that Igbos see it. Why you may think all "Bia" speaking people or people who call God all the variations of Chi/Chukwu should be Igbo, Ikwerres do not have that same school of thought. As far as they know, every village can be a tribe. Little wonder Rivers state has one of the largest concentration of ethnic groups even though most of those ethnic groups understand each other to some extent.

Ikwere is not Igbo! ok - We are cool with that!

Anioma is not Igbo! ok - we are also cool with that!

BUT MY OWN IS - THE POINT OF THEM CAUSING PROBLEMS AND NDI IGBO WILL BE THE ONES SUFFERING FOR IT!

CASE IN POINT - NZEOGWU IS FROM ANIOMA IN PRESENT DAY DELTA STATE - HIS PEOPLE SAID THEY DONT WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED AS IGBOS AND YET BC OF THE CRIME OF THEIR SON NDI IGBO SUFFERED THE LOSS OF 3 MILLION INNOCENT IGBOS!

THESE ETHNIC GROUPS SHOULD PLS SEND AN OFFICIAL LETTER TO NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ASSERTING THEIR DESIRE TO BE IDENTIFIED DIFFERENTLY FROM NDI IGBO!

We dont giv a fuk about what they chose to call themselves but they should suffer for the consequences of their own actions or inaction!

THEY SHOULD DO WELL TO LET NDI IGBO BE!

AN AVERAGE IGBO MAN NO SEND YOU!

Afam4eva:

This same thing you said about Ikwere and Igbo, just replace it with Urhobo and Isoko or Efik and Ibibio so that you can understand where i'm coming. That's not to say that you don't have a point in your assessment of the situation. But like i said Ikwerre people do not see it with the same eyes that Igbos see it. Why you may think all "Bia" speaking people or people who call God all the variations of Chi/Chukwu should be Igbo, Ikwerres do not have that same school of thought. As far as they know, every village can be a tribe. Little wonder Rivers state has one of the largest concentration of ethnic groups even though most of those ethnic groups understand each other to some extent.

The case of Isoko and Urhobo is quite different.
They have very distinct languages that are not mutually intelligible.
Not same with Ikwerre. Ikwerres don't have any other language apart from Igbo.
If I may ask,how do you identify an American without asking him or her? How do you identify a Yoruba,an Hausa,Fulani or an Igala man without asking? How do you identify an Igbo man or woman without asking?
If I say and argue that 1+1 equals to 3,you know obviously it is wrong but would you force me to accept that the correct answer is 2? You'd probably leave me to my delusion.

michelz:

The case of Isoko and Urhobo is quite different.
They have very distinct languages that are not mutually intelligible.
Not same with Ikwerre. Ikwerres don't have any other language apart from Igbo.
If I may ask,how do you identify an American without asking him or her? How do you identify a Yoruba,an Hausa,Fulani or an Igala man without asking? How do you identify an Igbo man or woman without asking?
If I say and argue that 1+1 equals to 3,you know obviously it is wrong but would you force me to accept that the correct answer is 2? You'd probably leave me to my delusion.

Urhobo and Isoko are not as different as you put it. Maybe we'll need someone from these areas to shed more light. However, i think the difference is similar to the difference between Ikwerre and any other Igbo sub-group. Ikwerre have a different language that is not Igbo and that language is Ikwerre.

The question of whether Ikwerre is Igbo is not a a question of arithmetic though I get your point and nobody have argued against the fact that Ikwerre and Igbo are mutualy intelligible but it does not make Ikwerre Igbo if they don't want to be. However, Ikwerre is an Igboid language whether they like it or not. We must learn the distinction between language and ethnic identity. The Irish, Scottish and Welsh now speak as much English as England but it doesn't still make them English. I'm not comparing Ikwerre and Igbo with these countries. I'm only using it to describe the distinction between language and ethnicity.

Please enough of this. This is getting really pathetic and stale.

obiekunie2:
Ikwere is not Igbo! ok - We are cool with that!

Anioma is not Igbo! ok - we are also cool with that!

BUT MY OWN IS - THE POINT OF THEM CAUSING PROBLEMS AND NDI IGBO WILL BE THE ONES SUFFERING FOR IT!

CASE IN POINT - NZEOGWU IS FROM ANIOMA IN PRESENT DAY DELTA STATE - HIS PEOPLE SAID THEY DONT WANT TO BE IDENTIFIED AS IGBOS AND YET BC OF THE CRIME OF THEIR SON NDI IGBO SUFFERED THE LOSS OF 3 MILLION INNOCENT IGBOS!

THESE ETHNIC GROUPS SHOULD PLS SEND AN OFFICIAL LETTER TO NATIONAL ASSEMBLY ASSERTING THEIR DESIRE TO BE IDENTIFIED DIFFERENTLY FROM NDI IGBO!

We dont giv a fuk about what they chose to call themselves but they should suffer for the consequences of their own actions or inaction!

THEY SHOULD DO WELL TO LET NDI IGBO BE!

AN AVERAGE IGBO MAN NO SEND YOU!

We are always the sacrificial lambs for some idiots .....

Whenever it's a good thing they trace the great great grandfather ...when it's bad they say it's Igbo

Afam4eva:
I'm sure we're not new to the whole Ikwerre-Igbo argument and this has been going for so long and nobody from either places are ready to concede. I'm here to tell you why.

I will start by stating my personal opinion on the matter.

If you have followed me on Nairaland, you will know that in the earlier years of Nairaland, I felt it was stupid not to think of Ikwerre as Igbo but in recent years, I've changed my perception which is not to discount the Ikwerre and Igbo link but rather to concede the fact that people have the right to call themselves what they so choose. I mean, it can be insulting to tell someone who they are even though they claim otherwise. It doesn't matter the reason why such a person thinks he's not Igbo whether factual or plain lies. Afteral Ethnic Groups are to a large extent an artificial creation.

Now, back to my argument...

The reason most Ikwerres say they are not Igbo is visible the moment you cross Ore(in Yorubaland). It is evident that it was not only Igbo groups that were not centralized. Even around Edo state where you had the famous Benin empire, that was what it was, an empire. However, some different groups in that empire did not see themselves as coming from the same stock. That is why despite the glaring similarities between Bini and Esan, they are distinct groups despite being in the same state.

It is the same story in Delta state where despite the closeness in language between Urhobos and Isokos, they are classed as 2 different groups when one could be a dialect of the other.

Akwa Ibom and Cross River is another typical example. When you hear people speaking languages from those 2 states which most Nigerians call 'Calabar', it sounds pretty the same but people from the groups will tel you that they are either Efik, Ibibio, Annang or even Oron.

So, with these examples, you can see that a lot of these groups were not centralized and as such do not favour coming together to form a large formidable group.

The same thing can be said of Ikwerre and some other Igboid groups that distance themselves from the Igbo tag. They see Igbos the way isokos see Urhobos and the same way Efiiks see Ibibios. They know they have a lot of similarities with each other but they have created an identity no matter how little and that is why they would rather be their own group.

Having said that, there's a small difference in the relationship between urhobos and Isokos, Efiks, Ibibios and Annangs to the relationship between Igbos and Ikwerres.

While the former groupps are to a large extent cordial to each other, it's a tricky situation between Igbos and Ikwerres. Yes, Igbos and Ikwerres mix, marry and all but Ikwerres have the feeling that Igbo want to dominate them. They could be right or wrong but you can't exactly false that entire premise because they can't really understand why Igbos can't let them be who they want to be without forcing it down their throat.

That's why a lot of Ikwerres who can speak central Igbo are even wary of speaking of Speaking Igbo to Igbo people because that may make whoever they're speaking it with think that they're Igbos. That's why you notice that Ikwerres find every possible thing to further move away from the Igbo tag. Even if it means claiming to have migrated from Benin.

So, in conclusion, Ikwerre could be an Igbo dialect in another universe but the way things stand right now, it's almost impossible and their wish to be called Ikwerres should not be disrespected.

Let them stop bearing igbo names , if an emeka commits an offense in uk or Kano , who commited the crime?

Afam4eva:

This same thing you said about Ikwere and Igbo, just replace it with Urhobo and Isoko or Efik and Ibibio so that you can understand where i'm coming. That's not to say that you don't have a point in your assessment of the situation. But like i said Ikwerre people do not see it with the same eyes that Igbos see it. Why you may think all "Bia" speaking people or people who call God all the variations of Chi/Chukwu should be Igbo, Ikwerres do not have that same school of thought. As far as they know, every village can be a tribe. Little wonder Rivers state has one of the largest concentration of ethnic groups even though most of those ethnic groups understand each other to some extent.

Do you think all Ikwerre people use bia to mean come? You're very wrong o.

The day they stop bearing igbo names eg emeka chinedu etc i start taking them serious.

Your point is noted Afam.

iObEy:


Do you think all Ikwerre people use bia to mean come? You're very wrong o.

A lot of you don’t know much about the Igbo language. I had this same mindset until I mixed with many Igbos. If a few of the Ikwerre can leave their villages and travel to just Abia state, they’ll be shocked to see that Bia is not come in many villages in that axis. They’ll be shocked to see that in Imo their next door neighbor, most villages have a separate dialect from what many Ikwerre understand as central Igbo. Like Afam said, everyone must choose their part, but accept responsibility for their decisions come rain and come shine.

I think the civil war created this crack in Igbo identity and like someone said although jokingly, a free for all 2nd war will reset the cracks. I don’t know how much truth is in this thought.

I watched a clip where Governor Nyesome Wike when talking with Dele Momodu on Instagram made a statement that IPOB renamed Oyigbo to Obigbo. growing up in Port-hacourt in the 90s, i've always known that place to be called OBIGBO because when you stand on Aba road, you hear conductors calling passengers going to Obigbo and Aba. So, i'm shocked that he's claiming that Oyigbo is a new invention.

Afam4eva:
I watched a clip where Governor Nyesome Wike when talking with Dele Momodu on Instagram made a statement that IPOB renamed Oyigbo to Obigbo. growing up in Port-hacourt in the 90s, i've always known that place to be called OBIGBO because when you stand on Aba road, you hear conductors calling passengers going to Obigbo and Aba. So, i'm shocked that he's claiming that Oyigbo is a new invention.

If Nyesom said this, then it is really really disappointing. I have a PhD thesis written by an Ogoni man in the '60s or' 70s, and he wrote it as Obigbo.

The history of Obigbo is not shrouded in mystery because the town was not even founded in pre-colonial times. It was laborers from the Owerri axis that moved down early in the 20th century and founded Obigbo on land that belonged to another Igbo group, the Asa.

How people want to pretend that this history doesn't exist and that Igbo people are trying to forcefully rename an Ogoni territory is very very strange.

I like this your point.

I haven't see Yoruba people forcefully telling Itsekiri that they are Yoruba even though the Itsekiri acknowledge that they have Yoruba origin

If

JerryLekki:
I like this your point.

I haven't see Yoruba people forcefully telling Itsekiri that they are Yoruba even though the Itsekiri acknowledge that they have Yoruba origin

In Professor Akintoye's book "The History of the Yoruba People", the good prof included the Itsekiri as part of the Yoruba erhnic group. How is that different from what the Igbo do vis-a-vis the Ikwerre?

RedboneSmith:


In Professor Akintoye's book "The History of the Yoruba People", the good prof included the Itsekiri as part of the Yoruba erhnic group. How is that different from what the Igbo do vis-a-vis the Ikwerre?

The difference is that unlike the Itsekiri, the Ikwerre and other Igboid groups vehemently and forcefuly reject any link with the larger Igbo group. This even makes Igbos push harder and harder. That's not to say that all Itsekiris claim Yoruba. Infact, most of them do not but even those that do, do it in a subtle manner.

Afam4eva:

The difference is that unlike the Itsekiri, the Ikwerre and other Igboid groups vehemently and forcefuly reject any link with the larger Igbo group. This even makes Igbos push harder and harder. That's not to say that all Itsekiris claim Yoruba. Infact, most of them do not but even those that do, do it in a subtle manner.

Force marriages hardly last long, it's better people buy into group classifications than being forced. Today, most people from different nations wants to move to America or western europe to become their citizens compared to moving to any other nation. These people often celebrate their citizenships in these abducted nations with prides.

It's not every tribes that are happy to be identified as Yoruba today were once classified as Yorubas but these tribes such as the Ijebus are very happy to be part of the larger Yoruba conglomerate. On the other hand, the Yorubas will want to have the Benins as part of the Yoruba nation but the Benin/Edo are too well established in history and sees itself as the father of all to want to be a part of any tribe.

Igbo should rather deploy their energy and talent towards building a nation everyone will be proud to be part of rather than this force marriages of claiming tribes that are not interested in being Igbo.

Igbos help to build others cities such as Lagos and Abuja that everyone wants to run to and associate with but you can not find any city in the east comparable to PH and you want the indigines of PH to be proud to be Igbo. You have to be a great nation to claim others or for others to claim you. The Igbo should first work on her greatness.

Whilst Igbo/Biafra is fixated on claiming Ikwerre by fire by force, there are still Igbos in the east that claims Benin, Igala, Idoma and other ancestry.

samuk:


Force marriages hardly last long, it's better people buy into group classifications than being forced. Today, most people from different nations wants to move to America or western europe to become their citizens compared to moving to any other nation. These people often celebrate their citizenships in these abducted nations with prides.

It's not every tribes that are happy to be identified as Yoruba today were once classified as Yorubas but these tribes such as the Ijebus are very happy to be part of the larger Yoruba conglomerate. On the other hand, the Yorubas will want to have the Benins as part of the Yoruba nation but the Benin/Edo are too well established in history and sees itself as the father of all to want to be a part of any tribe.

Igbo should rather deploy their energy and talent towards building a nation everyone will be proud to be part of rather than this force marriages of claiming tribes that are not interested in being Igbo.

Igbos help to build others cities such as Lagos and Abuja that everyone wants to run to and associate with but you can not find any city in the east comparable to PH and you want the indigines of PH to be proud to be Igbo. You have to be a great nation to claim others or for others to claim you. The Igbo should first work on her greatness.

Whilst Igbo/Biafra is fixated on claiming Ikwerre by fire by force, there are still Igbos in the east that claims Benin, Igala, Idoma and other ancestry.

Benin is too well established to to go into another mini Nigeria again.

Before the advent of this fraud call Nigeria Isoko is a sub-group of Urhobo or dialect of the Urhobo language... It was politics that made the Isokos to clamour for their own identity. The Okpe Urhobos are the largest sub group of Urhobo
The case of Isoko and Urhobo is quite different.
They have very distinct languages that are not mutually intelligible.
Not same with Ikwerre. Ikwerres don't have any other language apart from Igbo.
If I may ask,how do you identify an American without asking him or her? How do you identify a Yoruba,an Hausa,Fulani or an Igala man without asking? How do you identify an Igbo man or woman without asking?
If I say and argue that 1+1 equals to 3,you know obviously it is wrong but would you force me to accept that the correct answer is 2? You'd probably leave me to my delusion. [/quote]

michelz:
Your point is very clear.
However, what doesn't sit right is intentional revisionism of history.
Ikwerres don't speak an Igboid language; they speak Igbo. In fact,they speak raw unadulterated Igbo even considering the various "non-Igbo" ethnic groups they have mingled with for years.
When you speak Igbo, your culture, customs and the names of your villages are Igbo,your surname is Igbo,then only a fool would need to be told that he is Igbo.
I don't begrudge them of claiming to come from wherever, but the burden lies on them to keep on explaining to an Hausa,Yoruba or other foreigners how they are not Igbo but migrated several centuries ago from who knows where.

The situation between Igbo and Ikwerre is very similar to that between Urhobo and Isoko. Urhobo and Isoko share virtually the same language, names, culture, tradition, food, mode of greeting, custom, etc, yet Isoko insisted of been a separate ethnic group and they were allowed to be.

michelz:

The case of Isoko and Urhobo is quite different.
They have very distinct languages that are not mutually intelligible.
Not same with Ikwerre. Ikwerres don't have any other language apart from Igbo.
If I may ask,how do you identify an American without asking him or her? How do you identify a Yoruba,an Hausa,Fulani or an Igala man without asking? How do you identify an Igbo man or woman without asking?
If I say and argue that 1+1 equals to 3,you know obviously it is wrong but would you force me to accept that the correct answer is 2? You'd probably leave me to my delusion.

You are wrong, Isoko and Urhobo understand themselves when they speak. We have the same mode of greeting, our traditional marriage rites are the same, the same traditional food and mode of dressing, etc. I'm Urhobo but if an Isoko person speaks I will understand him or her. Most of the traditional Christian songs use in worship in Churches throughout Urhoboland are in Isoko language and we understand the songs.

Afam4eva:

Urhobo and Isoko are not as different as you put it. Maybe we'll need someone from these areas to shed more light. However, i think the difference is similar to the difference between Ikwerre and any other Igbo sub-group. Ikwerre have a different language that is not Igbo and that language is Ikwerre.

The question of whether Ikwerre is Igbo is not a a question of arithmetic though I get your point and nobody have argued against the fact that Ikwerre and Igbo are mutualy intelligible but it does not make Ikwerre Igbo if they don't want to be. However, Ikwerre is an Igboid language whether they like it or not. We must learn the distinction between language and ethnic identity. The Irish, Scottish and Welsh now speak as much English as England but it doesn't still make them English. I'm not comparing Ikwerre and Igbo with these countries. I'm only using it to describe the distinction between language and ethnicity.

Urhobo and Isoko understand themselves to a great extent because their languages are very similar. I'm Urhobo but whenever an Isoko person speaks I can easily understand even though I'm not living in Isoko land. The major difference is the intonation.