swiz123:

Just as Fabregas once rightly opined, physically gifted players are favoured in today's football than the technically gifted.

Well you are an idealist while I prefer reality. That should explain why Fabregas has been a bench fodder since the age of 29 and why Monaco are trying to chase him away till today

Ibime:


Well that's your opinion. Makelele also lacked what you may describe as precision passing but is the best DM in the clubs history. Maybe you want a Fabregas in your DM position but Kantes technical skill is more than adequate for the position and that is borne out both in his volume of passes and accuracy of passes when he plays there. I don't need a 9/10 passer in that position - a 6/10 passer with good defensive skill is hundred times better than a 9/10 passer with no defensive skill in that position. My opinion is below.

Kante is a CM, (at least for major part of his career)not a DM. The qualities he lacks is paramount to a CM. But apparently , his work rate assuages his weakness -- A benefit you have failed to give Fab.

Fabregas though versatile is not a DM.

stop twisting facts to favor your opinion.

Ibime:


Yes he was. He has the body of a 12 year old boy. Yes I did persecute Mata and I did argue for his sale on these very pages which caused a big brouhaha back then and I was proved right. Mata was a passenger for Chelsea in big games due to his lack of physicality. He only pad stats in the small games and disappeared in the big games. That's why we don't talk of Mata in UCL run of 2012 cos he was a liability and often dragged off early for Kalou at which point his wing would stop being overloaded. On the contrary, I was one of the biggest promoters of KDB cos I saw his vision with no weakness in him.

Jesu did u say 12yr old. Lmao. U wicked goan

You can ask around. I was the biggest persecutor of Ramires on this thread. I don't accomodate weakness in any player whether technical or physical and Ramires was a technical liability, always giving the ball away by trying to run with it through the centre of midfield, with an atrocious first touch and lacking the simple midfield basics of trapping the ball, turning and passing to a teammate.

you have murdered someone

So in this team now would you go add, who you go commot

BlueAngel444:

So in this team now would you go add, who you go commot

This is our first team without question. Only Azpilicueta has an argument to break into this team but James has improved his stamina to where Azpis case for inclusion is getting weak

Ibime:


Pogba has many weaknesses including jogging, lack of fitness, not following players and dwelling on the ball too long.

I do judge players on their weakness because those weaknesses cost the team points and do not allow the team to consistently challenge. That's why you can talk of Fabregas in comparison to other generational talents, yet he was chopping bench because the managers of his team's cannot accommodate such weakness in team structure.

It is not managers job to accomodate weakness when the weakness is too glaring to be accommodated and can cost the manager his job. Same reason Mata's weakness is not accomodated, nor Ozil. Every player has a role to play in modern football. There are no passengers.

But what weakness did KDB have that Mou let him go

swiz123:


Kante is a CM, (at least for major part of his career)not a DM. The qualities he lacks is paramount to a CM. But apparently , his work rate assuages his weakness -- A benefit you have failed to give Fab.

Fabregas though versatile is not a DM.

stop twisting facts to favor your opinion.

CM or DM, they both have primary defensive responsibility. We are no longer in the days of Okocha and Oliseh where one has all defensive accountability and the other has zero defensive accountability.

Stopping opponents from penetrating is the primary responsibility of a CM or DM. You can do that by defending well or by hogging the ball so thoroughly that opposition do not touch the ball to harm you with it, or both. Fabregas can do neither consistently.

swiz123:


Kante also has many weaknesses bordering on lack of control, precision passing, dribbling, poor judgement, shooting etc yet he is highly effective in his preferred position.

Going by your analyses, first eleven players like Jorginho, Busquet, Pirlo are/were all carry alongs which only slowed the team down.

Kante has lack of control
Precision passing
Dribbling

Abeg where you see all these weaknesses

BlueAngel444:

But what weakness did KDB have that Mou let him go

Go and ask Mou. I supported KDB.

If you ask me, Mourinho was playing politics with Oscar Vs Mata and KDB was not a big enough name to factor in that political argument. Mourinho said he wants to get rid of Mata and I quote "in order to make space for Brazil's no10". I just think KDB was a victim of the 6 months it took Mourinho to politically shift Mata out of the club. In the process of doing that, KDBs career was being wasted and he did not have the patience to wait for such politics to play out.

You cannot shift your POTY and much loved Chelsea player with a largely unknown small boy from Belgium. That would have been unacceptable to the fans and media, so he had to do it with Oscar, who I also did not like.

Unlimited22:

There is a reason Pirlo had Seedorf, Gattuso and Ambrosini around him at Milan, and Vidal and Pogba and Marchisio at Juve.

Escortinho is Escortinho, and Busquets cannot play DM in any team that isn't Barcelona. Even now that Xavi and Iniesta are no longer there his decline has been sharp

is it not strange that pep threw yaya away for busquets

BlueAngel444:
is it not strange that pep threw yaya away for busquets

Is Yaya a true DM?

Ibime:


Go and ask Mou. I supported KDB.

If you ask me, Mourinho was playing politics with Oscar Vs Mata and KDB was not a big enough name to factor in that political argument. Mourinho said he wants to get rid of Mata and I quote "in order to make space for Brazil's no10". I just think KDB was a victim of the 6 months it took Mourinho to politically shift Mata out of the club.

You cannot shift your POTY with a largely unknown small boy from Belgium. That would have been unacceptable to the fans and media, so he had to do it with Oscar, who I also did not like.

KDB was an 8 na like Lampard

Anyway Oscar wasn't popular I didn't know him before he signed for Chelsea. Oscar did very well his first season though and deserved to stat. If Mou was so political why did he bench Kaka for Ozil

BlueAngel444:
KDB was an 8 na like Lampard

Anyway Oscar wasn't popular I didn't know him before he signed for Chelsea. Oscar did very well his first season though and deserved to stat. If Mou was so political why did he bench Kaka for Ozil

We were playing 4-2-3-1 then and KDB plays there. Oscar had the profile of being no10 for Brazil and was fairly popular in his 2012-13 season. That is an easy sell for Mata's replacement than a small Belgian boy.

Kaka had already suffered one year of injury and flopping before being shifted for Ozil who was Germany's no10 and a World Cup star.

BlueAngel444:
KDB was an 8 na like Lampard

Anyway Oscar wasn't popular I didn't know him before he signed for Chelsea. Oscar did very well his first season though and deserved to stat. If Mou was so political why did he bench Kaka for Ozil

Lol Mou benched Prime Pepe for a 19-year-old kid from Lens.

Mou benched Casillas for Diego Lopez. Mou left Chelsea because him and Abramovic disagreed over shevchenko And the team's poor form.

That man no well o. Believe me.

Ibime:


CM or DM, they both have primary defensive responsibility. We are no longer in the days of Okocha and Oliseh where one has all defensive accountability and the other has zero defensive accountability.

Stopping opponents from penetrating is the primary responsibility of a CM or DM. You can do that by defending well it by hogging the ball so thoroughly th
at opposition do not touch the ball to harm you with it, or both. Fabregas can do neither consistently.

I guess his over 50 assists for Chelsea makes him a liability.

swiz123:


I fear Gilmour is currently being slightly overrated. How many good games has he had? 2 games? Liverpool and Everton...

The disaster class he dropped after the Covid 19 break is still fresh in memory; and I remember most people agreeing that he wasn't ready.

He is a kid who shouldn't be overburdened with this kind of attention, lest we see another CHO.

lol let's just hope Gilmour comes back better than before he left

swiz123:


I guess his over 50 assists for Chelsea makes him a liability.

That's why he's been on bench since 2016 and chased to Monaco. Don't argue with me, argue with four different managers at Chelsea and Barca that chased and benched him. Mata had better assist stats (at one point approaching 25 assists in a season) and was chased, and you are not crying about it.

Unlimited22:

Lol Mou benched Prime Pepe for a 19-year-old kid from Lens.

Mou benched Casillas for Diego Lopez. Mou left Chelsea because him and Abramovic disagreed over shevchenko And the team's poor form.

That man no well o. Believe me.

the man called Mou

but Tottenham are playing pretty ok now

Seems Ibime hate lots of Chelsea players sha... From Ramirez to Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Fabregas Na who you come like na??

Elnino4ladies:
Seems Ibime hate lots of Chelsea players sha... From Ramirez to Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Fabregas Na who you come like na??

Lampard

Elnino4ladies:
Seems Ibime hate lots of Chelsea players sha... From Ramirez to Oscar, Mata, Hazard, Fabregas Na who you come like na??

I grew up in an era where we make UCL semi and compete for title every year even though we may not win, but always competitive. 2012 to 2020 set did not have what it takes and turned us to nonentities in UCL and barely competed for title due to the weaknesses in these players above except Hazard. I don't hate Hazard, just got fed up of Chelsea fans hyping him past his station. When looking at Chelsea, I always look at players to replace to make the team better and Hazard had never once crossed my mind as a weakness that needs addressing, infact someone to keep and add better players to him to take us back to where we used to be.

Ibime:


I grew up in an era where we make UCL semi and compete for title every year even though we may not win, but always competitive. 2012 to 2020 set did not have what it takes and turned us to nonentities in UCL and barely competed for title due to the weaknesses in these players above except Hazard. I don't hate Hazard, just got fed up of Chelsea fans hyping him past his station. When looking at Chelsea, I always look at players to replace to make the team better and Hazard had never once crossed my mind as a weakness that needs addressing, infact someone to keep and add better players to him to take us back to where we used to be.

I got your point now.

Numbers don't tell the whole story.

Assists is not down to the passer of the ball entirely. The striker recieving the pass have a lot of say whether that pass will be counted an assist or not.

Play 20 passes to C. Ronaldo and play the same 20 passes to Adebayo in the same exact way by the same person.... Will the number of assists be same in both scenarios? Your guess is as good as mine.

Ozil had C. Ronaldo in front.

Silva had Aguero in front.

Cesc had Adebayo in front.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Enuff said.

Ibime:


That's why he's been on bench since 2016 and chased to Monaco. Don't argue with me, argue with four different managers at Chelsea and Barca that chased and benched him. Mata had better assist stats (at one point approaching 25 assists in a season) and was chased, and you are not crying about it.

Boss ibims, fab no bad reach like that nah.....you have never praised him for anything.

timbros:
Numbers don't tell the whole story.

Assists is not down to the passer of the ball entirely. The striker recieving the pass have a lot of say whether that pass will be counted an assist or not.

Play 20 passes to C. Ronaldo and play the same 20 passes to Adebayo in the same exact way by the same person.... Will the number of assists be same in both scenarios? Your guess is as good as mine.

Ozil had C. Ronaldo in front.

Silva had Aguero in front.

Cesc had Adebayo in front.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Enuff said.

Especially all these assists that after someone has played in a perfectly weighted cross field pass, all the player has to do is do a lay off. Like no recognition goes to the GK, the DM, back line that supplied the bluid up.

timbros:
Numbers don't tell the whole story.

Assists is not down to the passer of the ball entirely. The striker recieving the pass have a lot of say whether that pass will be counted an assist or not.

Play 20 passes to C. Ronaldo and play the same 20 passes to Adebayo in the same exact way by the same person.... Will the number of assists be same in both scenarios? Your guess is as good as mine.

Ozil had C. Ronaldo in front.

Silva had Aguero in front.

Cesc had Adebayo in front.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Enuff said.

Ozil had 19 assists with Giroud and co

Ozil had 16 and 15 league assists respectively with Bremen as well.

This agenda that he only racked those assists because of Ronaldo and other world class attackers is dead on arrival.

Ibime:


Go and ask Mou. I supported KDB.

If you ask me, Mourinho was playing politics with Oscar Vs Mata and KDB was not a big enough name to factor in that political argument. Mourinho said he wants to get rid of Mata and I quote "in order to make space for Brazil's no10". I just think KDB was a victim of the 6 months it took Mourinho to politically shift Mata out of the club. In the process of doing that, KDBs career was being wasted and he did not have the patience to wait for such politics to play out.

You cannot shift your POTY and much loved Chelsea player with a largely unknown small boy from Belgium. That would have been unacceptable to the fans and media, so he had to do it with Oscar, who I also did not like.

Your theory does not add up, at least not for someone like Mourinho. We have not known Mourinho to care for such sentiments.

Greatihex:
Your theory does not add up, at least not for someone like Mourinho. We have not known Mourinho to care for such sentiments.

He does it all the time - using one player to push out another he doesn't like. It is actually consistent with his behaviour over the years, and he looks at the politics first. He always had an intention to push out Mata before taking the job and the press kicked against him including a big argument with Jamie Redknapp on TV. Don't forget how loved Mata was. His response was that he is prioritising Brazil's no10 which is an easier sell.

Ibime:


He does it all the time - using one player to push out another he doesn't like. It is actually consistent with his behaviour over the years, and he looks at the politics first. He always had an intention to push out Mata before taking the job and the press kicked against him including a big argument with Jamie Redknapp on TV. Don't forget how loved Mata was. His response was that he is prioritising Brazil's no10 which is an easier sell.

Sir, it has never been about politics for Mourinho. If you don't give him what he wants, you go straight to bench. Mourinho cared less about the media when he was benching his own useless buy of Pogba with mctominay.


And for the records, it was not mata or Oscar that kdb was competing with, it was Willian and Schurlle. Kdb used to play as RAM mostly in those days.

Kdb was simply passing through Mourinho's normal tough love of the players he values, but kdb simply did not have the patience for that.

Kdb was not giving Mourinho what he wanted, and Mourinho wanted to make him learn that and play the way he wants him to, but kdb was not having it. It is that simple. Kdb was also not the finished article.

Greatihex:
Sir, it has never been about politics for Mourinho. If you don't give him what he wants, you go straight to bench. Mourinho cared less about the media when he was benching his own useless buy of Pogba with mctominay.


And for the records, it was not mata or Oscar that kdb was competing with, it was Willian and Schurlle. Kdb used to play as RAM mostly in those days.

Kdb was simply passing through Mourinho's normal tough love of the players he values, but kdb simply did not have the patience for that.

Kdb was not giving Mourinho what he wanted, and Mourinho wanted to make him learn that and play the way he wants him to, but kdb was not having it. It is that simple. Kdb was also not the finished article.

KDB competing with Willian and Schurle ke?

BlueAngel444:
Muller over Kaka
Neymar over Ronaldinho

Muller over kaka?
Neymar over Ronaldinho?
Wonder shall never end

Melvyn11:

Ozil had 19 assists with Giroud and co

Ozil had 16 and 15 league assists respectively with Bremen as well.

This agenda that he only racked those assists because of Ronaldo and other world class attackers is dead on arrival.

Read my first and last line again, more slowly this time. Maybe then you will get my point.

timbros:
Numbers don't tell the whole story.

Assists is not down to the passer of the ball entirely. The striker recieving the pass have a lot of say whether that pass will be counted an assist or not.

Play 20 passes to C. Ronaldo and play the same 20 passes to Adebayo in the same exact way by the same person.... Will the number of assists be same in both scenarios? Your guess is as good as mine.

Ozil had C. Ronaldo in front.

Silva had Aguero in front.

Cesc had Adebayo in front.

Numbers don't tell the whole story. Enuff said.

Baba rubbish! Cesc had prime D. Costa in front of him, Ozil had Welbeck, Giroud and other useless strikers and remained on top of the assist charts!

Numbers don’t lie! The stat below is the prime of Fabregas in terms of numbers, not even Ozil’s but keep an eye on the “Big Chance created” category where Ozil dwarfs him.