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Nairaland Forum / Entertainment / Sports / European Football (EPL, UEFA, La Liga) / Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 (11309468 Views)
Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Pride Of London / Offical Bayern Munich Fan Thread: 6x Champions Of Europe / Manchester United Fan thread: Forever Reds (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Unlimited22: 3:47pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
timbros:He didn't play with Henry and Van Persie at all. No o. It was only Adebayor he played with all through. The same Adebayor who also had a 20-goal season. Ozil at Arsenal topped assist chart with striking phenomena and greats like Olivier Giroud, Joel Campbell and Danny Welbeck. But go off mate, numbers obviously don't tell the whole story. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Roland17(m): 3:54pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Unlimited22: When they want to make their case they ignore the relevance and challenges of the other player and spotlight the effectiveness of theirs. Ozil was integral in Madrid and dominated the La Liga for more than 3 seasons..Fab was surplus and could barely make the team and no one remembers that poorly advised sojourn. Fab played with Costa, Henry, Van Persie and Adebayo all in their prime!! Who did Ozil play with at Arsenal? Make dem tell me.. yet he dominated the assist charts. Ozil at Arsenal was not even Ozil’s prime but he still dominates Fab’s best season! 1 Like
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Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by raumdeuter: 3:55pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Ibime: Silva, Fabregas Ozil and Mata in that order But I have to put some context into it that Silva benefitted from playing in attacking sides, Under a Guardiola system that makes attacking players look better than what they really are Silva in a Mourinho systems would have been destroyed the same way Mata was. because he would have been shunted to the wings and tasked with helping his full back. I have argued before that Mata was the Silva of his time before he ran into Mourinho and he never recovered from it When Germany went defensive, they had to shift Ozil to the left-wing and he quickly became a liability, when you meet strong sides, Ozil as a 10 is easy to mark out, Ulli Hoeness said that Bayern always targetted Ozil whenever we play Arsenal and it never fails Ozil probably is the most talented of them but and probably the laziest too 9 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 4:07pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Unlimited22: The question is, in their prime, who will I get into my team. I watched the 4 mentioned players. The good ol' eye test comes into play here, not some assist numbers. Which of them, as a 10, tops in vision, eye for pass in a tight spot, can split open defences both when counter attacking and when opposition sits deep, has both long range and short range pass ability? Cesc tops them all. Little wonder it's only him out of the 4 players that have 'pass' coined to his name. At some point in their career, they played against Chelsea as a bitter rival. Who among them do I dread facing? Cesc. No amount of numbers will change what I watch. Silva, Mata, and Ozil are all extra ordinary players. But for me, Cesc tops them all. 7 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Skimpledawg(m): 4:13pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
How Mata found his way to be among this discussion is a miracle in itself. 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 4:14pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Roland17: Are we talking prime Costa or prime Cesc? Was prime Cesc in Chelsea or Arsenal? Prime Ozil, was is Arsenal or Madrid? Why will you post Cesc 14/15 vs Ozil 15/16.? Like I said earlier, numbers don't tell the whole story so don't even bother yourself showing me stats here and there. I watched both of them play and I know their style of play. I know their strengths and weaknesses. 4 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 4:35pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Nevertheless, the two campaigns were both remarkable in their own right, but who did it better? @Roland17 above is the article where you pulled out that image. Even when we go by stats, Ozil registered 19 assists in 35 apps while Cesc registered 18 in 33 apps. Please who is the better player here per 90? Look at those bolded and tell me exactly why you are posting that image everywhere. Why are you making it look like Ozil blew Cesc outta the water when their overall rating were 7.66 against 7.62? 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Unlimited22: 4:36pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Skimpledawg:Nah Mata's Prime was a banger too. It's just that it was over in a flash. He ran into Mou in 2013 and it was never the same again. And if we're going by the Raumdeuter metric of 1 UCL or WC >>>>>>>>> 1 billion league titles, Mata is the only one there with both medals. 3 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Roland17(m): 4:49pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
timbros: Go back and read my first comment about this topic and you would see where I said both players are no scrubs and this is not a debate about apples and oranges. Meaning both players are legit superstars in their own right. For me it boils down to length of prime, numbers and relevance. So scratch that last paragraph. The image contains stats that support my argument and debunks a lot of your claims. So please be careful not to imply I plagiarized the narrative/ article that came along the image because that would be totally false. Just saying.. 33/1 is 34 appearances for Fab so he is short only 1 game but that does not offer much difference because he could have gone without registering an assist in that game, he could also have gone on to register 20 assists in that game right? Well, we will never know. The data about key passes should be most important stat for anyone who understands how to read the data. Ozil beats him in every category in that image and more importantly, this is not even Ozil’s best season in his career.. Do you realize that? |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by sleekdot(m): 4:50pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Unlimited22: You mean the world cup where Mata played a sum total of 20mins vs Honduras or the Euro cup where he played 3 mins as a time wasting sub in a 4-0 win To win both World up and Euro, Spain played about 1250mins and Mata participated in 23 of those mins, he probably didnt even sweat Make we no lie, Mata had as much influence in winning those trophies as those of us typing from Nairaland 11 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by popizaino(m): 4:51pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Ibime: That is your own theory.There is no way a Chelsea fan won't talk about a specific game against Wigan in 2008 led by useless Anelka as the reason for losing the league title.There is no way an arsenal fan won't talk about the game at Birmingham that saw their title hope dash away.There is no way Liverpool fan won't talk about the game at crystal palace and the one against chelsea in 2013 that saw them losing the league. There is no way a man United fan won't refer to the game against US in 2010 to make a reference to their chances on the title. [/quote] When we talk of players like Fabregas, we talk of inconsistency and inability to compete consistently in big games. [/quote] Pls tell me the big games because at his peak from 2006 - 2011 fabregas dominated big games from North London derbies to games against the very best like Chelsea,man United and Liverpool. He won several midfield battle against some of the very best in the game like Alonso,gerrard,scholes,lampard,Carrick, makalele.It's not a hidden secret that his arsenal team usually play us off the park but we always had drogba who always save us from disgrace . I hate stats but I wouldn't you bringing them forward let's compare his stats to that of lampard in the so called big games. [/quote] The same Fabregas who may dominate West Ham in that game could escort Bournemouth within the next 3 games, or be unable to get hold of the ball against a big team in another game. What we want for Chelsea is that our midfield is competitive in every game, not playing lottery from one game to another. How are you different from those who come to praise Jorginho after his good games, knowing he will still escort and be a liability at another game down the line. [/quote][/quote] Bring stats let check |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Neobulletzz(m): 4:58pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Roland17:33(1) is still 33 appearances tho, that 1 is saying something about substitution, the number of times he came in as sub in the 33 apps |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 4:58pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Roland17: Cesc 33(1) apps translates to 2890 minutes of football while Ozil's 35 apps is actually 3048 minutes of football. That is 158 minutes difference. Do you realise what can happen in 158 minutes of football? 4 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by iamoyindamola(m): 5:01pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Ibime:What do you mean by failed in their primary work Is fabregas a DM, most of the stats he gathered were they from escorting and what business is he doing in deep lying midfield The season he was effective with Costa was it from deep midfield, mourinho a fvcking defensive coach did he play him as a deep lying midfielder Just say you don't like him 2 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 5:01pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
sleekdot: You don commit now now?! 5 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Roland17(m): 5:03pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Neobulletzz: My bad! I did not include the sub appearance to the total number. I was isolating it in calculating the total. You are right. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Roland17(m): 5:09pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
timbros: He would have had 50 assists in 158 minutes or he could have scored an own goal, given a lame performance with 0 assists.. We will never know! We are going by what we know. By the way, why are you avoiding the other stats on that imagine? Once again, can I remind you that is the prime of Fab in terms of numbers but not Ozil’s! |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by sleekdot(m): 5:09pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
timbros: My enemies are plenty you know. And the thing I typed sef I cannot see anything bad in it This is why I need Apostle Suleman to teleport my enemies from their homes to Awkuzu SARS detention 3 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by popizaino(m): 5:10pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Roland17: Fabregas prime was at arsenal. In did wonders when the league was tougher and during a period when man United had defenders like vidic,Brown,Ferdinand not fucking Jones or Rojo. He did it when he faced Chelsea side with Terry,cavalho,ashley cole not jokers like Luis and baba rahman. He did it facing robin savage,tuncay,campo,macherano,and the the jokers ozil had to face this days . When the going gets tough it's only fabregas you can rely on to change the game with a single pass. Fabregas to Costa vs city 16/17 facing Silva Fabregas to Costa vs arsenal 14/15 facing ozil . 3 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by popizaino(m): 5:13pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
timbros: Sounded like a poem Beautiful 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 5:29pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Roland17: You see that bolded? That's the crux of the matter. I don't pick Cesc over Ozil based on numbers. And the mere fact that Cesc played 158 minutes less renders those other stats DoA. If he played as much as Ozil, he will equal or surpass him. The overall margin says it all. 4 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 5:31pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
sleekdot: As you know say you get plenty enemies, thread softly. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by timbros(m): 5:32pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
4 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by popizaino(m): 5:41pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
timbros: I bought canal+ just so I could be watching him in French league. I love fabregassssssssss 1 Like |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 5:49pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
raumdeuter: Silva played under Mancini who is quite a defensive manager and even on the wing. He was already a City legend before he met Pep in 2016. Mata should die Mourinho excuse. He only played 5 months under Mourinho. Mata position became redundant in football and he was too small and weak to adapt. Silva may be short but him body dey ground with low centre of gravity. Mata is just lean and weak. 3 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Ibime(m): 5:52pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
iamoyindamola: Calm down chale. Fabregas played his whole Chelsea career in a double pivot as a deep lying midfielder. 3 Likes |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Unlimited22: 6:01pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
sleekdot:Lol. That's why I worded that sentence the way I did. But didn't he score in Euro 2012? |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by kendrick9(m): 6:07pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Silva was the better player amongst them four. I will pick him... After that it comes down to between Ozil and Fabregas.. At Peak level i think Ozil edges, the ozil at the 2010 world cup and at R.madrid was really out of this world... Fabregas whilst also great but his main attribute was long passing and shots at his peak, This got noticeable worse at his chelsea days where he was just a long passing specialist and nothing else. At Barca a top club, he was exposed imo, he just lacked that extra quality which is why he is below the likes of Xavi, iniesta and Silva imo... That stamina, agility really held him back and his game intelligence isn't upto the xavis of this world. I don't think he ever could run a midfield like a xavi,inesta or Silva could... 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by BlueAngel444: 6:21pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
MorataFC:it's not about having a player play 3-5seasons but one that can go 8-9seasons With Muller and Neymar within 10seasons I would get at least 3UCLs, 7 league titles with Kaka and Ronaldinho maybe 2UCLs and 4 league titles |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by BlueAngel444: 6:25pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
Greatihex: Na true o, I remember KDB used to play RAM It was Mourinho that tried him at different positions RAM, AM and CM to see where he would fit but the dude just didn't click. |
Re: Official Chelsea Fan Thread: Champions Of Europe 2021 by Almajirihunter(m): 6:26pm On Nov 16, 2020 |
What happened to the youths taking over in 2023 or not voting any of the ex politicians, it’s not yet a month already and it’s died down. On FP is about a certain Governor crossing ships and who’s going to take the presidency in 2023 between APC/PDP. It’s so disheartening but at this point the whole EndSARS thing looks like a monumental failure now. If only it was staged in 2023 close to the polls because Nigerians forget a lot. 4 Likes |
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