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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It (34906 Views)
Ikwerres Deny Ancestral Affiliation With South-East / Oduduwa Was Not Igbo Prince – Oluwo Of Iwo / Ikwerre Of Rivers, Ukwani And Ika Of Delta Are Not Igbo. Here Is Proof (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by macof(m): 3:40pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: Please stick to the matter at hand. I know you are sobbing right now and feeling very emotionally traumatised but try ehn, sorry. Just provide the thing we are asking ![]() You know you asked us first, we have provided our own |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:44pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
TAO11: So when did the king of benin changed from king of benin to oba of benin And what title were the benin kings using then So the oba of benin never had title that's why the British called him king abi? 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:54pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
macof: At 1882, nigeria was already been formed as a country the process was already going on and the British were many years in Yoruba land already So a writer referring the monarch as oba in 1882 was normal, at 1882 the yorubas have already united for political gains so common words were already shared from eastern Yoruba to western yoruba And the title oba was only the most renowed name for king in the then nigeria because of the influence of oba of benin, so she using the title oba for Yoruba king was not from yoruba knowledge but from her own independent knowledge The British renamed oba of lagos from eleko n eko, not because oba of lagos was the name but because the name oba was already known for king in nigeria So calling the yoruba kings obbas was her own decisions from a renowned name for king in benin |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 3:55pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
macof: So am i going off track Probably you are the one unsettled Read my other comments and give me answers Seems TAO11 these days is scared to quote me |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by macof(m): 3:59pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: Lmao ![]() |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 4:02pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: This is goalpost shifting at its worst. Initially you people said the Yoruba didn't use oba pre-1900. Now that you've seen evidence from 1882 you want to change mouth. Meanwhile, I have seen two Yoruba dictionaries from 1852 and 1858 respectively that contain the word oba. 5 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:16pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: The word oba was used in yoruba but benin introduced it to them through it influence from Eastern Yoruba, the word oba means king and it was not used as a generic title for kings until 1930 Did you read my previous comments Guy you shouldn't be here you're igbo so stay clear off Before you stick your mouth while not wait till the debate is over Am still checking d pdf for its validation And we benins never said dey never used d world before 1930 we said we brought the word oba to them through eastern Yoruba So if the yoruba own the word oba how did it get to benin if i may ask |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 4:17pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 4:27pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: You seem to be expecting too much from a clown. Lol. On the second or third page of this thread, I did provide more evidence like “Oba Jayin” and “Oba M’ Oro”, among others — cited from S. Johnson’s work which was evidently completed in 1897. I also cited “Dom Obá II” — an epithet of the Afro-Brazilian grandson of the then Alaafin Oyo, Cândido da Fonseca Galvão (1845 — 1890). Moreover, Bishop Samuel Ajayi Crowther’s 1884 Yoruba translation of the Bible is littered with “oba” for “king”. In fact, a 1666 French translation of a Coptic text which Cheikh Anta Diop cites in his “African Origin of Civilization” is shown to have retained the original “Obba” for “King” in relation to a certain king Chango said to be born in Ife. Yet, we are still waiting to see just one pre-1900 writing showing the Binis’ use of “oba” for their monarch. Inferiority complex is a terrible thing! 10 Likes 20 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by scholes0(m): 4:34pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
samuk: The Benins have always wished this to be the case unfortunately for Benins it isn't .. and the shadow cast by the Oba from Yorubaland will forever continue to loom heavily over Benin's entire existence. But don't worry, I understand the feeling. I guess the following Yoruba towns and villages did not exist until recently ko? Ilu Omoba - Ekiti Obajana - Kogi Obadore Omuo - Ekiti Gaa Oba - Kwara Too much to even start listing. Also, all the Oja Oba (Oba's market located usually beside the palace and right in the middle of the old quarters) in virtually every Yoruba town didn't exist either... ![]() Just google Oja Oba and see the plethora of locations you get. From Ilorin to Akure to Ado to Ibadan to Osogbo to Kabba to Oyo township.. These institutions are not called Oja Deji or Oja Alaafin or Oja Obaro or Oja Olu. They are known as Oja Oba throughout Yorubaland. Even Obalufon from ife who has a famous copper alloy mask circa 1300s was also given permission to be Oba by binis who were probably still at crossroads whether to completely ditch the Ogiso title or not. You Benin people are just Jokers. One mistake (or maybe it is actually deliberate) that you people usually make is that y'all make automatic assumptions due to the lack of knowledge of Yoruba language you people automatically culturally appropriate anything from Yorubaland in your kingdom and misrepresent some very fundamentally Yoruba things even in Yorubaland. Someone from Urhonigbe than has absolutely zero Idea that Eti in Yoruba means ear, edge or bank and Osa means Tide or Lagoon in Yoruba language will just come from Siluko road and start talking about how Eti Osa local government means "Power of God" and how the first settlers came from bini land. If I start making a list of Yoruba and Yoruba derived words and calques in the Bini language, I will get to page 13 on this Nairaland lasan. smh 15 Likes 15 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 4:48pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: Oh please, shut the fùck up with the "You're Igbo, you shouldn't be here" tripe. Also shut the fùck up with the "We introduced the word to the Yoruba" nonsense, unless you have concrete evidence to back it up. Over 400 years of written records before 1900, and you can't even find the word 'oba' in just one of the records. Nigga, please. 3 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 4:54pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
This is the international definition in the online dictionary, I am sure you trust the body that compile the English dictionary to do proper research of the origin and meaning of a word before it is included in the dictionary. The international dictionary listed the word Oba as a Benin word. 1 Like
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 5:07pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: And my screenshot wss what You are bittered towards we benins And you cant hide it So you mean benin never had title for his king Before they adopted oba at the given year Can you hear yourself and what you support So the benin king was titlesss good one brilliant Guy Because the oba of benin wasnt always addresses by the title oba then he never had a title Modafuka igbo man 1 Like
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by scholes0(m): 5:09pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
babtoundey: Ohhh okay. They have a mother tongue called Oko. They are not exactly Yorubas though. If they eventually become Yoruba it will be by assimilation and not foundational ethnic affinity.... That process is already complete or near complete in some closer villages like Ikakumo and Ayanran in northern Edo (as an example)
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 5:16pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
Hi @RedboneSmith: I trust you that you can’t be deceived by his cheap deception in his foregoing mention to you with an attachment. But just to be very emphatic, the screenshot he attached is from page 390 of Philip A. Igbafe’s “The Fall of Benin: A Reassessment”. And guess what! The work dates to the year 1970. More than that, the footnote 28 which our Benin clown highlighted contains a statement which Igbafe (1970) quotes from an 1896 report. However, the actual quoted words from the 1896 report does not show the word “oba” anywhere from the beginning of the quotation mark to the end of the quotation mark. The quotation goes as follows and as highlighted in horizontal red ink in my attached screenshot below: ‘has permanently placed ju-ju on Kernels, the most profitable product of the country. . .he has closed the markets and he has only occasionally consented to open them on receipt of presents from Jekri Chiefs’ Clearly, the word “oba” is not found any where within this statement from the beginning of the quotation mark to the end of the quotation mark. The presence of the word “Oba” as seen in the other parts of the footnote, outside of the quoted 1896 statement, are obviously the words of Igbafe (1970). @Afam4eva 8 Likes 7 Shares
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 5:20pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy:
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 5:23pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
[quote author=samuk post=96257156][/quote] Leave that wise igboman make e dey support nonsense |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 5:23pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: How is it possible for anyone to be this stupid? How? The quote from Consul-General Philips does not contain the word oba. The word oba appears in the rest of the footnote, and was written by the author of that particular paper deep in the 20th century. Modafuka igbo man? Lol. Okay. I will sha insult you because you don't have sense, but I won't drag your ethnicity into it. 4 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 5:24pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
[quote author=samuk post=96257156][/quote] Leave d igbo guy to be talking nonsense They are yet to prove d titles benin used before tge arrival of whitemen |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 5:34pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: The dictionary went further to say the origin of the word is Edo. If they are not up to mischief, how is it possible that Benin whose written history began in the 1400s is the one that will copy the word Oba from Yoruba whose written history began in the 1800s. It's a good thing the dictionary is not written by Nigerians. Wonder shall never end. 3 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 5:35pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
gregyboy: That is not for me to prove. Y'all first said the Yoruba didn't use oba until the last century. That has been proven on this thread to be an ignorant lie. All that we're asking is for you to also prove that you used oba pre-1900. At this point no one is saying you didn't. Just prove it. The way the Yoruba have proved theirs. I am amused at the fact that you keep bringing up my ethncity as if that has any bearing on anything. I am a historian. Ethnicity has nothing to do with who can study history and who can discuss it. 10 Likes 15 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 5:36pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
samuk: Lol. You and greg are cut from the same cloth. ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 5:43pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
TAO11: ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 5:49pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: Argue with those that listed the word Oba as a Benin word with Edo origin in the international dictionary. I feel your pain, the Benin are always a thorn in the flesh of those that want to shove their Igboness or Yorubaness down the throat of everyone else. So it's understandable when Igbo and Yoruba collaborate against Benin because just like most parts of Yoruba land Igbo was also under the old Benin empire. History is what it is. It's not our fault. The compilation of the English dictionary didn't start recently, if the word Oba had a Yoruba origin, the dictionary would have say so. You guys see everything from the prism of population. In your logic, it has to be a Yoruba word because they are more in population. You call yourself historian and don't know that Benin is much more older than Yoruba, what sort of skewed tribal historian are you. 2 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 5:56pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
RedboneSmith:I’m glad you robbed it on his face. ![]() He must be so delusional to think everyone else has a pea-sized, 1 kilo-byte brain like he does. I have stopped engaging him directly since I became convinced on my job of exposing him as a clownish empty-headed dullard. —— The second Bini clown-in-Chief has attached dictionary.com’s definition of “oba” as his proof. Wonderful!? ![]() Can someone remind me again what year this online dictionary wrote that definition of “oba”? ![]() I’m beginning to think that brainlessness is actually real in a literal sense. Haha! 6 Likes 7 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 6:12pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
samuk: Arguing with you people is tiresome. Bring pre-1900 documentation you're bringing online dictionary from the 21st century. Issorait. See my own online dictionary. 4 Likes
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 6:15pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
samuk: Why is it that small-minded people always think that if you disagree with their position on anything it is because of some tribal hate? 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 6:17pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
TAO11: Lol. Greg and Samuk are probably the same person. ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by macof(m): 6:18pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
samuk: So pitiful that in your inability to provide one document in your so called documented history since 1400s, that shows Bini use of the word "Oba"... After two days you can only provide a screenshot to an online dictionary ![]() "used by various people .." Here's the 2nd definition your own dictionary gives ![]() This second definition even comes with a source [the renowned Collins English Dictionary] Rendering the second definition more reliable than the one you made a screenshot of ![]() 4 Likes
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 6:23pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
macof:What’s even more interesting is that this dictionary-definition (i.e. popular usage), as you’ve attached here, dates to 1998 — the earliest of this dictionary’s publication dates. Amazing evidence! /s ![]() 4 Likes 7 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Afam4eva(m): 6:25pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
I've been following the back and forth about who originally owns the word "Oba" between the Bini and Yoruba and despite the fact that we've always been told that it i s the benin people who own that word owing to how cultural we allude them to be, i'm having a rethink because i base my judgement on fact. While this is not conclusive, i think i'm more inclined to think that Oba is indeed a Yoruba word. However, we will await ore rebuttals with facts supported by documents as requested. 3 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Afam4eva(m): 6:26pm On Nov 20, 2020 |
I also want to know what other traditional rulers in Edo state apart from the oba of Benin are called. 1 Like |
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