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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Investment / Treasury Bills In Nigeria (4601769 Views)
Fixed Deposits Or Treasury Bills, Which Is Better? / Fixed Deposit And Treasury Bill Investments From Abroad / I Need Information On Treasury Bills In Nigeria (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by einsteine(m): 5:59pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
awesomeJ: You are deliberately refusing to get the point. The CBN is quoting the wrong price. If it were the right price, they will fulfill all demand at that price. Lots of people are locked out of that market. Also, Emefiele is lying about the parallel market when his CBN has provided more dollars to BDCs than to legitimate importers. You can look up the numbers and you will see that the CBN's input of dollars at weekly auctions to BDCs exceeded CBN's activity at the I&E window. The parallel market, where it exists, is the TRUE price because that's where you can fulfill the highest demands. If you need dollars to speculate on US stocks for instance, the CBN isn't going to supply you at 389. So how is that the correct price? We haven't even mentioned the fact that most people who get dollars at the CBN rates are even using their privileged access to arbitrage on the "black market". As usual, you are being an idealist. Do you even follow the Nigerian economy at all? 7 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by RealityShot: 5:59pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi:I am not buying updc for now, just advised someone with low risk tolerance and knowledge on stocks to buy it. Thank you for NNFM info Sir. |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by DexterousOne(m): 6:05pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Ibrahim505: EXACTLY! |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 6:07pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Ibrahim505: You need to monitor the companies, read their financial reports, be informed about the company's plans and strategies, know if management is growing the earnings and expanding the business, you should have basic knowledge of accounting, finance, economics, arithmetic and business valuation 9 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by awesomeJ(m): 6:20pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
einsteine: What point is there to get? You make baseless arguments and expect one to get points from them? Will there not have to first be a point before it can be gotten? The fact that you expect the currency to crash, doesn't make your opinion right. I have dollars to sell at 386, you think you're the one to tell me that 386 is the wrong price? The CBN doesn't value it above that price, so if you like pay 1000 for it, it's your money. |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by ositadiima1: 6:25pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi: Or follow d path I am following, that is if technically inclined, try to find a pattern by studying past price action. I have spotted a couple that have been profitable. But I am looking for one that will maintain a good ROI in bull and bear times. A good example would be the turtle traders in d USA, for more than 2 decades, they have cashed out from the market by using simple both repetitive strategy, one that has a layed down instruction set for any market condition and so exempting emotions from d game. |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by awesomeJ(m): 6:29pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
einsteine: This is false, but at least you're now arguing with point. That's an improvement! Average weekly sales to BDCs is $50m. Average weekly sales at the I&E window is above $300m. You should disprove this if you can! |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by awesomeJ(m): 6:38pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
einsteine: How can you reasonably say that a tiny market that holds less than 5% should be where price is determined? So 5% is your own definition of majority? You think CBN should be the one to supply you dollars with which to speculate on US stocks, and you're not ashamed of your funny reasoning? You don't need any connections to buy dollars at 386. Go to the bank with your passport and air ticket, and fund your account with about 1.5m, you'll get $4000! |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 6:48pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
ositadiima1: Good, I am more concerned about the business, earning growth of the business, sustainability of the business, strategies of the business and the business is appropriately priced or selling below its intrinsic value So I am more interested when i see the stock price of a good business is falling or selling below its intrinsic value, I see it an opportunity to buy a good investment at a discount Check out an investment of N9 million in United Capital about 7 years ago, the investor has earned a total dividend of N25 million in the last 7 years paid a dividend of N5 million this year and the investment is now currently valued at N47 million 5 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Nobody: 6:52pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi:Sir, I know how businesses work. Very well sef. I’m talking about NSE here. How many stocks have you bought through the NSE that has given you a CAGR of 15% to 20% returns after holding for 10 to 15 years? Please let’s not talk about the original investors in MTN and Nestle. Those are different kinds of investors and are the guys that really cash out without unnecessary forces determining the vaIue of their shareholdings (pre-IPO) and then use the IPO event to make more money when they dump their shares to the secondary market investors. I am talking about ordinary investors that buy shares from the secondary market. Many people that are holding stocks from around 2007/2008 till present have actually not recouped their investments and can slap anyone that tells them to go near the NSE with their hard earned savings. You would need lots of luck (and time), insider information or be one of the big boys to be consistently making high returns in the NSE. My opinion. 2 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by DexterousOne(m): 7:12pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Lazyyouth4u:This hasn't been my personal experience though |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 7:14pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Lazyyouth4u: Buying stocks is investing in a business, but more people speculate on the stock prices rather than investing in the business A lot of businesses have given more than 20% annual growth due to the expansion of the business. Those who bought APR and United capital made more than 30% annualized return. If you invested N1 million in 200,000 units of GTB shares when they had their IPO in 2001, your shares would have grown to 1,410,000 units in 2020 through bonus shares .valued at almost N50 million excluding the dividends earned in the last 19 years So what is the annualized growth rate for an investment of N1 million in 2001 which is now worth N50 million in 2020 and also paid a dividend of about N4 million this year Capitalisation history of GTB 2002 bonus of 1 for 4 2003 bonus of 1 for 5 2004 bonus of 1 for 3 2005 bonus of 1 for 3 2006 bonus of 1 for 4 2007 bonus of 1 for 11 2008 bonus of 1 for 4 2009 bonus of 1 for 4 2010 bonus of 1 for 4 3 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 7:19pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
DexterousOne: We have more of gamblers and speculators in the market trying to make fast money, but they must lose big time Investment is a marathon it requires patience, knowledge and the ability to value a business or an enterprise in order to succeed 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Cyberknight: 7:24pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
awesomeJ: Not as easy as that - I travelled last month and got nothing. 3 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by awesomeJ(m): 7:33pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Cyberknight: Your statement is not complete. I didn't say "Travel and you will get something" A relevant statement would be: "I went to my bank to request PTA last month, I gave my passport and flight ticket, but I got nothing" Did that happen to you? And note West African countries don't count! You can't just come and say I traveled and got nothing. Not good! 4 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by TransAtlanticEx(m): 7:33pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Cyberknight:The moment I saw that,na that time i know say the guy is joking. A whole Manufacturing is shrinking because companies can't access fx to use to import raw materials then one clown for NL dey talk about travel lol. Why do you think Nigeria enter recession if not for a shrink in GDP because of faltering manufacturing sector? So what caused the shrink? |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by DexterousOne(m): 7:33pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi: Words on marble! Warren Buffet many of us adore today took his time And when it was time No looking back It was ahead ahead That craze for quick quick Or like my people will say Ozugbo ozugbo Is what many people do to LOSE MONEY 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by awesomeJ(m): 7:35pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
TransAtlanticEx: No need for name calling. If your head works, quote the "clown" directly in an intelligent argument. 2 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 7:53pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
awesomeJ: You sef like trouble sha 3 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by awesomeJ(m): 8:18pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi: Why should any funny ignoramus just open their mouths and say CBN governor is a goat? Explain how, he wouldn't! 1 Like |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Manwarrior55: 9:37pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
. 5 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Cyberknight: 10:42pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
awesomeJ: I went to England last month. I requested PTA from my bank. Had relevant documentation. Got nothing. 1 Like |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Nobody: 10:58pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Manwarrior55:Airtel listed for two reasons. Our government has been pushing the Telcos (MTN and Airtel) for a long time to list here to help strengthen our capital markets. Also, Airtel needed to raise cash from our institutional investors and HNIs to diversify its investor base and pay down some of its huge debts. There is nothing special about Airtel and MTN’s listing in Nigeria that suggests that the NSE is an efficient exchange for secondary market investors. Anyone can list in any market provided there are investors willing to provide money. I maintain that the guys ‘low key’ making money consistently in this market are people with access to inside information, smart speculators and the big boys/institutional players that hold most of the stock on that exchange. Retail investors that think they can time the market and make quick money will need a lot of luck. Not many people can afford to tie their money down long term in the market to make decent returns on some stocks. With the current low Tbill and MMF yields, most retail investors are just looking for where to park their Tbill money (and MBA money sef ![]() 3 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by ukay2: 11:25pm On Nov 26, 2020 |
Cyberknight: Got PTA from my bank (STANBIC IBTC) in less than 2 hours in October 2020. 5 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Bjrokenhear003: 2:37am On Nov 27, 2020 |
emmasoft: Hello I was reading in relation to the VGIF, how is it done, can I invest quarterly or annually. Is there tax on deduction if my income or any charges |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 3:40am On Nov 27, 2020 |
Lazyyouth4u: If you have been reading my comments, I always include ability to value a business or an enterprise, basic knowledge and application of accounting, finance, mathematics and economics will enhance this. Which can always help an investor to determine the intrinsic value of a business and the shares of the business, with this you are good to go. Leave the noise in the market to gamblers and speculators, while investors will continue to accumulate wonderful businesses selling below their intrinsic values. Most times public offerings are overpriced, you need to be financially literate and understand how to value a business in order to identify this, reason why some investors love the bear market. Share certificate is not a lottery ticket but evidence of an investor's holdings in a business. 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 4:23am On Nov 27, 2020 |
Bjrokenhear003: You can invest daily, weekly, monthly, quarterly or annually, it depends on your cash flow. Dividends are distributed twice in a year, I prefer reinvesting my dividends 2 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Nobody: 7:24am On Nov 27, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi:Boss, you can do all the valuation you want and know all the accounting/Finance in the world but will still struggle in an inefficient stock market like Nigeria’s. The market price of a company is determined by market forces (demand and supply). When all market participants are using different valuation methods (and assumptions) and arriving at different levels of intrinsic value, it will naturally be reflected in the true equilibrium market price as people demand more of stocks they think are undervalued and sell more of stocks they think are overvalued. This will work in a developed market with diverse institutional and retail investors. But in a smaller and growing inefficient stock market like Nigeria’s, demand and supply is mainly as a result of insider trading, activities of large traders/portfolio managers (including FPIs), activities of speculators, etc and less of people buying and selling because they have carried out valuation exercises. That’s why you see huge swings when the FPIs come and go and what we have currently as domestic portfolio managers are flocking in with their Tbill money. These are just a couple of examples. The NSE is growing and we will get there. But we still have a long way to go before we can get to the levels of South Africa and markets in the developed world that are so large and diverse that the true value of shares are determined using DCFs, PE ratios, Dividend Discount models, etc. I am not saying that these have not worked for a few people in this market. It has (especially for the buy and hold guys as you demonstrated yesterday). But most retail investors are not looking for where to save their money for retirement. They are looking for short term yields that will replicate their Tbill earnings of the past couple of years. They have received their Tbill funds and are going into the NSE to search for short term yields. A few will be lucky and make good returns but many will get their fingers burned. This is just my opinion and you don’t have to agree with me sir. Also doesn’t mean I don’t invest in the NSE... NB: when you invest in unlisted companies (like PE firms do), you have better control of the management of these companies and the value of your investments are not determined by external market forces other than those that affect the companies that you have invested in. That’s an entirely different ball game. 4 Likes |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 8:07am On Nov 27, 2020 |
Lazyyouth4u: Capital market is not for the short term, money market is the right place for short term Investments. Short term returns in the capital market is an aberration and not the norms, trying to time the market is an exercise in futulity. Once in a while some special situations can happen eg those who bought Diamond bank at 80k before Access bank showed interest in buying the bank the share price rose to over N6.00 in a year this happened last year or there about. When Dangote bought back Dangote Flour from Tiger Foods of South Africa, the share price moved from less than N1.00 to almost N3.00. Few months after Olams put a price of N24.00 on each shares of Dangote Flour. Those who held on from 80k to N24.00 made good money in less than 30months. I couldn't wait till N24.00, was able to sell at N17. Aliko Dangote cashed out over N120 billion from the transaction. So tell me why someone offered to buy a stock that was priced at 80k for N24? Olams is not stupid, they are smart Indian businessmen. The stock market is ruled by greed and fear, ruled by fear in a bear market and greed in a bull Market. When ruled by fear a stock with an intrinsic value of N2.00 can be priced 50k in the market, when ruled by greed a stock of 50k can be priced N2.00. Ability to identify this anomaly is key if you are a value investor. Zenith bank currently has an equity of over N1 Trillion, made a profit of over N200 billion last year has about N6 Trillion as deposits and will do better in 2020, but currently has a market capitalisation of less than N800 billion on the stock exchange, was even valued in the market for N330 billion in March 2020 at the height of the pandemic. Those who had the cash flow and resources to buy at that time will be enjoying a dividend yield of 28% and capital appreciation of over 100% There is a whole lot of difference between the noise in the market, demand and supply for a stock on the exchange and the management, growth and profitability of the company. A dead company, a company making losses, with poor fundamentals can enjoy positive market sentiment and appreciate in price, but such appreciation will definitely evaporate as we see with many penny stocks. While the stock price of a growing and well managed company can fall or stagnant, but at the right time those who keyed in when market sentiment was not in favour of this company can make 5 to 10 baggers when market sentiment changes 11 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmasoft(m): 8:16am On Nov 27, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi: Very correct Sir. In fact that reinvesting option always bring out the beauty of compounding. It gives good feelings! |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by Bakosokoto: 8:34am On Nov 27, 2020 |
emmanuelewumi:Interesting discussion So for those willing to invest long term, which share class should they focus on 1 Like |
Re: Treasury Bills In Nigeria by emmanuelewumi(m): 8:38am On Nov 27, 2020 |
Bakosokoto: Get in touch with your financial adviser, buy mutual funds or invest in your financial and economic education. I don't give stock recommendations, but once in a while from my writings you should be able to decode somethings 3 Likes |
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