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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Culture / Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It (35331 Views)
Ikwerres Deny Ancestral Affiliation With South-East / Oduduwa Was Not Igbo Prince – Oluwo Of Iwo / Ikwerre Of Rivers, Ukwani And Ika Of Delta Are Not Igbo. Here Is Proof (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 9:00pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
samuk:Get away from me, you inferiority complex-infested nincompoop. ![]() Your fears and insecurities stink to high heavens — visible to the blind, and audible to the deaf. ![]() I have no business with you. My business is with your history — the fraudulent aspects of it. Or are you bigger than your history? ![]() ![]() 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 9:04pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: The documents had no ambiguity, it was very clear. What about the part that distinguishes Asaba people from Ibo/Igbo people saying they have different habits and that they were amalgamated with Ibo people. 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 9:04pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
RedboneSmith:Lzaa so Igbo originated from Benin ![]() ![]() ![]() |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 9:17pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Balogunodua: Are you serious or just trying to be funny? I can see why AreaFada2 didn't waste his time engaging you. Surely you can't be this ignorant, no, I refuse to believe it. 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by LZAA: 9:17pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Balogunodua:
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 9:34pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
TAO11: This is usually how our engagement always ends with a lot of premium tears from you. Hope you have thoroughly enjoyed yourself. Those two assignments are now your cross to carry. Should we meet again you will be reminded if you have proved these simple questions (Yoruba 1808 creation and Benin/Ife relationship early than 1800). |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by AreaFada2: 9:59pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
samuk:My brother you see them. Very lazy lot. You have to spoon feed them. Others copy and paste. |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 10:49pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
The yoruba whom are aware of the fact the truth about their passed has been revealed in this thread are actively spamming it in order to flood the true information I and other Edo people provided. yoruba don't like the truth, nor do they like logics, those are their two biggest enemies. Gregyboy, as I told you this debate ended years ago, but ofcourse the yoruba would just spam the thread and repeat nonsensical statements to oblivion. This is one of the reasons I often delete my accounts. I don't want to waste too much time doing over and over a thing which I have already finished. Proving over and over the same thing. Some people with low brain activity wouldn't understand. When I chose to not reply, it is because I have spotted a non ending cycle. So to those who will remain on nairaland, it is left for you to use the info which I provided and to always use your brain. There is no debate, everything has been proven, only low IQ would allow anybody think the yoruba have a point.
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 10:56pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Balogunodua: The truth yoruba history can never hold weight without benin history by it side See your earliest writer samuel johnson, on so many instances on his book he had to specify benin separately in his book history of yorubas If you need the other instances just say yes and i would pour them out The truth is yoruba history cannot survive without benin history by it side, benin oba agreeing to be one of oduduwa sons in early times for political gains was the biggest achievement yoruba ever had Samuel johnson called the oba of benin, king of benin while he called other yoruba kings by their title Why did he do this, So he wont sound foolish calling the king of benin oba, and yet still use the word oba as a generic term to adress yoruba monarch He was very foolish TAO11 TAO12 gomojam DonCandido Amujale macof Sewgon79 lx3as nisai 2fine2fast Aphrygian Olu317 Obalufon geosegun Moderator Afam4eva RedboneSmith Etinosa1234 Davidnazee Prolog Ghostwon AreaFada2 Sarah20A Valirex Etrusen ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() Emphasis on including benin This useless yoruba man refuse to call oba of benin is title throughout his book, he referred tp oba of benin as king of benin throughout and called the various yoruba monarch their respective titles and also used the term oba as a generic name for them Is it not obvious this guy had plans
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 11:08pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Balogunodua:This is in reply to the dummy who just quoted you above. He seems to have just admitted from his own personal evidence that Benin kingdom was under the Great OYO Empire during the reign of Alaafin Ojigi. ![]() More so, Ojigi was clearly called ”king” in this account. So, what was the dumb point he was making again? Whoever that dullard was, thank you for sharing your evidence with us to prove that Benin kingdom was under the Great Oyo Empire. ![]() 5 Likes 4 Shares
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by gregyboy(m): 11:14pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
davidmarker: Disgracing them all over again is fun Most times i try to channel my attention on the over obsessed Tao11 I love her obsession over benins, her obsession leads me revealing the truth about the true yorubas That other tribe wouldn't easily see I make her obsession looks stupid in her face, and i regularly send her off to oblivion to cook more lies then i crush the lies agsin on her returns wasting no time..... Am currently on a research and Tao11 is my lab rat, i dont want to jumb to the conclusion that benin-ife never existed, without giving yorubas and my fellow benins a doubt that indeed it was all fairytales, so i allow Tao11 be my opposer, she not knowing my intentions bid into my plans I regularly send her into oblivion if what she came with as prove was rubbish i tend to Always give her a second chances so it won't look i came into conclusion easily without a doubt Tao is my lab rat Have you notice she stop quoting me, because the last i bleeped her i almost disfigured her ancestoral pot, in our last thread, This thread would have gone passed me if not that one of her overzealous yoruba kingsmen called my attention to it Ghostwon you have done well leave the yorubas to me i love fucking them all 2 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 11:26pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
davidmarker:Well, we’ve learnt that suicide is loading in Benin Kingdom today. who was the first ooni of ife to copy the word Oba into his title: adesoji aderemi.Well, on this same thread we’ve already seen written evidence of “Oba” usage among the Yorubas — some going back to the year 1845. The closest the Benin usage came so far is 1863. Moreover, linguistics evidence have already been adduced on this same thread to establish that the Binis borrowed “Oba” from the Yorubas. He also created a beaded crown as a way to copy the Benin crown. (the fake crown in the picture below) Well I understand your desperation, but guess what: No Benin crown comes close in any way shape or form to any Ife crown. The closest which one of the Benin crowns came (the tall one) was that it looked like the signature tall crown of other Yoruba kingdoms (excluding Ife) called Ade-Nla. Moreover, if your claim was that the Ife kingdom had more than one type of crown, that’s factual. ![]() In fact, the crowns are almost innumerable, just as the Binis have more than one as well — two examples (of the Binis’) of which may be seen at this link: https://www.nairaland.com/6234931/why-ikwerres-not-igbo-logic/20#96543761 there is no such thing as Edo, igbo or yoruba etymology. Anybody using such as argument is either intellectually bankrupt either morally bankrupt, anyways his argument is trashThis is a false statement which you’ve made here without a shred of evidence. You have simply peddled this falsehood in the hope that people will swallow it without asking for evidence. ![]() the yoruba have a habbit of copying other people's cultures:Interesting! Let’s hear it. a) they first copied the word "sir" which is a mark of british nobility: ooni of ife, sir adesoji.Haha! Insecure Bini Liar: Look, the Ooni of Ife uses “Sir” instead of “Oba” Sane Person: In what capacity did he use the designation “Sir”? Is it with respect to his traditional stool? Insecure Bini Liar: [scratches his bald head and goes] Well, that was in his capacity as a politician and governor of Western Nigeria Sane Person: Why then did you post this when you already know it is nonsense? ——-— Moreover, I would have thought you should know that Nigeria was a British colony. And that certain British titles were conferred on certain distinguished public office holders. One of such distinguished individuals was the then Ooni of Ife. At the time, he was the Governor of the Nigerian Western Nigeria. Other Nigerians who have been conferred similar the honor are: Sir Ahmadi Bello; Sir Herbert Macaulay; Alhaji Sir Abubakr’s Tafawa Balewa to name a few. b) after some time they changed that borrowed word for an other borrowed word "Oba" the title of the King of Benin: it then became "ooni of ife, oba adesoji"Well, as the written evidence have shown so far on this thread; your base level of reasoning should have permitted you to conclude that: The Yorubas have been using the word “Oba” decades before the Binis would first use it — 1845 (Yoruba) Vs. 1863 (Benin). c) adesoji also imitated the Benin crownThis has already been demonstrated in this same comment to be a deluded falsehood. d) the current crown worn by the ooni of ife is an imitation of a statue which was found in ifeInteresting! An ancient Ife crown is modeled after a more ancient Ife sculpture. So? ![]() e) the current dress of the ooni of ife is an imitation of the royal uniform of the king of the AshantiOh, I have an idea! What about ‘the current dress of the Ashanti king is an imitation of the Ife king’s’? In fact, this is more tenable since a Ghanaian subgroup claimed to have originated from Ife considering the testimony of the then Supreme King of the Ga people — The Ga Matse, King Nii Adama Latse 4) Benin has a true history, ife has fairytales. In “Ibn Battûta’s 1352 Voyages to Asia and Africa, ... we learn that southwest of the Mâlli (Mali) kingdom lies a country called Yoûfi (Ife) that is one of the “most considerable countries of the Soudan [governed by a]…souverain [who] is one of the greatest kings”.* “Battuta’s description of Yoûfi* (Ife) as a country that “No white man can enter…because the negros will kill him before he arrives”* is consistent with the ritual primacy long associated with Ife, due perhaps to its mercantile strength (glass beads, iron and probably textiles). Among the latter items seem to have been not only cotton and raphia cloth but also silk textiles fashioned from local worms. The latter suggests that in the twelfth through fifteenth centuries, Ife was part of the famous East-West silk road. This is one of many indicators that Ife was part of the larger global trading network. The need to control related goods (and technologies) is in part what gave Ife and its rulers their unique associations with secrecy and danger.” ~ Reference: Ibn Battuta’s 1352 Voyage as cited in Suzanne Preston Blier’s “Art and Risk in Ancient Yoruba: Ife History, Power and Identity, c.1300”, Cambridge University Press, 2015, p. 28. At this time when Ibn Battuta visited West Africa in the 1300s and documented about Ife, there was no kingdom called Benin worth noting. You know why? Ife was blowing. The elephant and its child doesn’t blow at the same time. Erin kii fon, ki omo re naa fon. ![]() ife has fairytales of rambo/oduduwa dropping from the sky in egypt strait into ife with a golden parachute/chain.Till date I’m still yet to get an answer on where the the ancestors of Bini people and their Kings’ progenitors descended from. Is it?: (A) Ife according to the “official” Benin account. (B) Heaven via chains according to the Benin mythological account. (C) Egypt according to Egharevba’s 1952 edition. (D) The last born child of God Almighty (and his wife) according to Omonoba Erediauwa (E) All of the above. Please help, I really need to find out the correct answer. . . . It appears you’re disgruntled because there are no more gullible customers for your Benin lies on Nairaland, therefore ... E PAIN AM Die 8 Likes 3 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 11:35pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
samuk: 1 Like 1 Share
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 11:48pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Etinosa1234: No need and not necessary. Not at all.. I can glorify Ignorance |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Etinosa1234: 11:51pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Juliusmalema:
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 11:56pm On Nov 30, 2020 |
Argh! I'm having great difficulty uploading the other versions from 1901 and 1914, which all agree in general (though differ in some specifics) with the 1879 version already uploaded. Repeat: Benin does not feature as a point of origin in any of these versions; and the present generation of Asaba people sure as heck don't make the claim. Will keep trying to upload. Note: Ntemedsah = Ntemeje =Nteje, a town in present-day Anambra State from which Nnebisi (Nebissi) is said to have hailed. There's still a popular street in Asaba (Nnebisi Road) named after him. Clarification: I am posting from the paper by Professor Elizabeth Isichei. But concerning the versions of the traditions, they are direct quotations from the original sources (which are fully cited.) 3 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 1:19am On Dec 01, 2020 |
An other fake regarding yoruba "history": https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/african-art-experts-say-that-sixth-century-sculpture-returned-to-nigeria-is-a-forgery 'Stolen' ancient sculpture returned to Nigeria is 'the kind of fake you could buy on eBay', African art expert says
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 1:26am On Dec 01, 2020 |
these guys (the ya.riba) are so fake...anything relating to them is some sort of fraud. They are prone to copying others and they will never acknowledge the person whom they copy, they would rather turn everything upside down and claim they were the ones being copied. Even right here you can see their trolls copying me. Their ooni the shrine keeper of ife (adesoji aderemi) copying the title of the Oba of Benin. Their ooni the shrine keeper of ife (adesoji aderemi) copying the crown of the Oba of Benin. Their ooni the shrine keeper of ife copying the ceremonial sword of Benin. Their ooni wearing Benin beeds. Their ooni copying the royal uniform of the ashanti .... All copying, even the current crown of their ooni is the copy of an archeological finding ... Copy copy copy, no originality, thy name is y.ariba Copy-copy tribe made in 1808. |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 1:57am On Dec 01, 2020 |
davidmarker:ALREADY DEBUNKED! ![]() 4 Likes 2 Shares
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by TAO11(f): 1:58am On Dec 01, 2020 |
davidmarker:You’re simply too dumb to realize that the expert was contending that the above returned forgery is in fact not the same original that was initially taken from Nigeria. Having clarified that, if you can show me ANY ancient Benin artwork whose naturalism and realism meets up with that of the following two ancient Ife-Yoruba artworks, then I promise to allow you peddle lies freely on Nairaland without checks or controls. I promise. ![]() www.nairaland.com/attachments/12769978_675abba9d9564c2a9dccbada6660916f_jpeg_jpeg27a46c1bc047f1e86dc445535a6a98d9 www.nairaland.com/attachments/12769979_5ae1b03b628943719aad9fbe9e13c73b_jpeg_jpega3d9f3de8494386a47ac23021a7e81b9 This is your opportunity to peddle lies continually and freely on Nairaland ad-infinitum without any checks or restraints. I hope you won’t let this golden “opportunity” pass you by. ![]() www.nairaland.com/attachments/12764287_de9efd884dd04412b99c8d69ce358463_jpeg_jpeg391622a325de641aa1c52b75d1e20ac0 Cheers I’d cc: Nairalanders who are neither Yoruba nor Edo to be the judge: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, Juliusmalema, 13 Likes 5 Shares |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 7:44am On Dec 01, 2020 |
samuk: 1 Like
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Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Nobody: 7:47am On Dec 01, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: Sound Sound not makeshift fabrications. 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 8:19am On Dec 01, 2020 |
samuk: Yes... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by samuk: 8:24am On Dec 01, 2020 |
RedboneSmith: Let's look at the evidences provided. 1. 1875 missionary report by Bishop Crowder who was in Asaba in 1875. Crowder told us that as of 1875 Asaba people who were different in habits from Ibo/Igbo have already been amalgamated with Igbo people, which means Abasa people and Igbo people were leaving together as one. The account of Asaba people, Crowder recorded says they migrated from the sovereign of the Oba of and still retained words and phrases from the Benin language as of 1875 and pays the Oba of Benin great veneration. 2. Bishop Ajayi Crowder was neither Benin nor Igbo and there is no evidence that he speaks Benin or Igbo. One can not see bias either way in his written records. 3. Your later reference claimed to have been written in 1879, 4 years after Crowder visit gave an oral account by an Igbo speaker. Hope you can spot the possible bias. 4. All your other subsequent accounts were given by those who lived amongst Igbo and spoke the Igbo language fluently. In summary, we have two accounts. 1. From a truly independent eyewitness witness whose account is older being written in 1875. 2. From Igbo speakers irrespective of were they came from. 3. Before you argue that some of these guys were from Sierra Leone, may I quickly remind you that the earliest Yoruba historians like Samuel Johnson who wrote favourably about the Yoruba and Oyo was also from Sierra Leone. 4. Most of these people from Sierra Leone who were mostly freed slaves that found their ways to Nigeria wrote favourable about their adopted part of Nigeria. Though majority of them settled amongst the Yoruba, others found their ways to other parts of Nigeria including Benin City, settled and adopted those places. 5. Benin history suffered this sort of biases from early Yoruba historians like Samuel Johnson but the advantage Benin history have is that such biases can easily be disproved by eyewitness accounts of Europeans who were constant visitors to Benin. 6. You may have seen page 174 of Samuel Johnson, the history of the Yoruba, shared here that seems to fraudulently suggests that Benin was one time under Oyo. Now juxtapose this with the interview of Oba Adolo in 1862 by the English man Bosman which I presented and other earlier European eyewitness records of Benin back to 1472, you will not find any evidence to support Johnson's suggestion. There was no century from 1400s to 1897 that Benin didn't receive European visitors who recorded what they saw at those times. These early writings insulate Benin history from later years fabrications. Same reason the Yoruba people is still unable to prove later years Benin/Ife connection fabrication earlier than 1800s. It's left for others to read both accounts and draw their own conclusions. 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 8:24am On Dec 01, 2020 |
gregyboy: Upon all this trash you still can't prove anything.. ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 8:26am On Dec 01, 2020 |
davidmarker: Seriously.... ![]() ![]() ![]() 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 8:29am On Dec 01, 2020 |
TAO11: 1 Like |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 8:32am On Dec 01, 2020 |
samuk:Lolzzz... ![]() ![]() ![]() ![]() 3 Likes 1 Share |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by Balogunodua(m): 8:38am On Dec 01, 2020 |
TAO11:He will soon delete that account... ![]() ![]() 2 Likes |
Re: Why Ikwerres Are Not Igbo - The Logic Behind It by RedboneSmith(m): 8:55am On Dec 01, 2020 |
samuk: Very weird defence. First, Northcote Thomas was not Igbo and wasn't very fluent in the language, from all indications. He was a British anthropologist. And of all the stories presented so far, his is the only one written by a professional ethnologist. This is an important fact. Second, you accusing the two Spencers of 'Igbo' bias is ridiculous. Igbo bias and they still acknowledged Igala blood in Asaba? One can actually argue that their fluency in the language of the natives gave them more access to the lore of the people than Crowther ever gained. Field researchers in the social sciences will tell you how important speaking and understanding the language of the research subjects are. You can't go accusing Igbo-speaking Sierra Leoneans of 'Igbo' bias in 1879 with zero evidence. Other Igbo-speaking Sierra Leoneans of the time that we know about (such as John Christopher Taylor and Solomon Perry) were remarkable detached from the native Igbo population they worked among and felt themselves to be Europeanised black men than anything else. The fact that the accounts of the Spencers are copious and detailed, mentioning names of culture-heroes and such, and Crowther's is rather an ambiguous one-liner (Yes, it is ambiguous) speaks for itself. I bet you didn't know that in the 1890s when Nteje was attacked by Abam warriors, it was to Asaba that they fled as refugees, on the basis of kinship. I bet you also didn't know that in the 19th century or slightly later (will have to cross-check the date later), Nteje emissaries went to Asaba to formally ask them to return home. They were welcome by the Asaba peoole, but Asaba people politely declined the offer, stating that they had become too deep-rooted in their 'new' home to just pack up and return. 1 Like |
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