samuk:
[s]NB: I have never claimed everyone manufactured Benin origin in recent times. There are places like Aboh, many Ika towms, etc that mentioned Benin part- or full-ancestry from their earliest documented traditions. I maintain however that there has been a great expansion of claims of Benin origin in comparatively recent times. Ekpeye, Ikwerre, Etche and even Ohafia claims of Benin recent belong to this latter wave of Benin claims.

I guess you didn't see the above from his submission. Small tribe that everyone is claiming one way or the other. The Yoruba are not left out of making claims of relationship with Benin. It shows how special we are.[/s]

RedboneSmith:


Chillax. I'll post three entire versions, free of ambiguity. There was a war with Benin in the time of Osemwede (called Osomadi in Asaba traditions). Asaba people fled and later returned to their land, after the army of Benin left (I'll post this too, if I find it.) This whole talk about migrating from sovereignty, etc etc, due to wars, etc...sounds like an allusion to that war in Osemwede's time than to any claim on the part of Asaba to have been of Benin descent.

Northern Nigerians still retain Arabic words, phrases and habits in 2020. Means very little.

RedboneSmith:


It is somewhat sad that people still do not understand that relationship and ancestry do not mean the same thing. I was really expecting the screenshot to say the ancestors of Asaba came from Benin. It doesn't say that. Of course, there was a relationship between Asaba and Benin. How else do you explain the Benin titles used in Asaba and other cultural imprints from Benin in and around Asaba?

Let me get on my laptop later, and I will share screenshots of three different versions of Asaba origin collected between 1879 and 1914. All of them agree that the founder or Asaba was Nnebisi from Nteje. One or two also mention an Igala prince who also came and joined Nnebisi's people. None mentions Benin.

NB: I have never claimed everyone manufactured Benin origin in recent times. There are places like Aboh, many Ika towns, etc that mentioned Benin part- or full-ancestry from their earliest documented traditions. I maintain however that there has been a great expansion of claims of Benin origin in comparatively recent times. Ekpeye, Ikwerre, Etche and even Ohafia claims of Benin descent belong to this latter wave of Benin claims.

I'll post the Asaba story when I get home and can use my laptop.

Balogunodua:

Lzaa so Igbo originated from Benin wonderful

Balogunodua:

Lzaa so Igbo originated from Benin wonderful

TAO11:
Get away from me, you inferiority complex-infested nincompoop.

Your fears and insecurities stink to high heavens — visible to the blind, and audible to the deaf.

I have no business with you. My business is with your history — the fraudulent aspects of it.

Or are you bigger than your history?

samuk:


Are you serious or just trying to be funny? I can see why AreaFada2 didn't waste his time engaging you. Surely you can't be this ignorant, no, I refuse to believe it.

Balogunodua:

Hope you guyz will be able to sleep this night .. you rest and accept defeat before you get heart and brain problem

Balogunodua:

Hope you guyz will be able to sleep this night .. you rest and accept defeat before you get heart and brain problem

davidmarker:
The yoruba whom are aware of the fact the truth about their passed has been revealed in this thread are actively spamming it in order to flood the true information I and other Edo people provided. yoruba don't like the truth, nor do they like logics, those are their two biggest enemies.
Gregyboy, as I told you this debate ended years ago, but ofcourse the yoruba would just spam the thread and repeat nonsensical statements to oblivion. This is one of the reasons I often delete my accounts. I don't want to waste too much time doing over and over a thing which I have already finished.
Proving over and over the same thing.
Some people with low brain activity wouldn't understand. When I chose to not reply, it is because I have spotted a non ending cycle.

davidmarker:
So what did we learn today:

who was the first ooni of ife to copy the word Oba into his title: adesoji aderemi.

He also created a beaded crown as a way to copy the Benin crown. (the fake crown in the picture below)

there is no such thing as Edo, igbo or yoruba etymology. Anybody using such as argument is either intellectually bankrupt either morally bankrupt, anyways his argument is trash

the yoruba have a habbit of copying other people's cultures:

a) they first copied the word "sir" which is a mark of british nobility: ooni of ife, sir adesoji.

b) after some time they changed that borrowed word for an other borrowed word "Oba" the title of the King of Benin: it then became "ooni of ife, oba adesoji"

c) adesoji also imitated the Benin crown

d) the current crown worn by the ooni of ife is an imitation of a statue which was found in ife

e) the current dress of the ooni of ife is an imitation of the royal uniform of the king of the Ashanti

4) Benin has a true history, ife has fairytales.
5) benin has architecture, ...

6) Benin actually fought a war against britain, ife once again has fairytales of great warriors

7) Benin city got burnt into ashes, ife didn't yet no architecture, nothing to show in ife.
8 ) at this point it feels like a big insult to even dare pronounce benin and ife in the same sentence in anybody's dream.
indeed, ife remains a village, a make-belief rubbish elevated by the invaders becuase the ooni of ife was a backstabbing traitor to the cause the black race. The ooni of ife served the british instead of fighting the british, coward if you ask me.Sayonara

ife has fairytales of rambo/oduduwa dropping from the sky in egypt strait into ife with a golden parachute/chain.

samuk:


Did you read that document properly? Did you skip where it says that the Asaba people migrated to Asaba from the sovereign of the Oba of Benin due to wars?

Did you read where a clear distinction was made between Asaba people and Ibo/Igbo people of which they were amalgamated?

Did you read were it says Asaba people have different habits from Ibo/Igbo people?

Did you read the part it says the Asaba people still retained Benin words, phrases and habits in 1875?

Did TAO11 borrowed you her lenses?

Etinosa1234:

Click the link and read Abi u dey use freebasics

Juliusmalema:


[s]
No need and not necessary.

Not at all..

I can glorify Ignorance[/s]

davidmarker:
[s]these guys are so fake...anything relating to them is some sort of fraud.
They are prone to copying others and they will never acknowledge the person whom they copy, they would rather turn everything upside down and claim they were the ones being copied.
Even right here you can see their trolls copying me.
Their ooni the shrine keeper of ife (adesoji aderemi) copying the title of the Oba of Benin.
Their ooni the shrine keeper of ife (adesoji aderemi) copying the crown of the Oba of Benin.
Their ooni the shrine keeper of ife copying the ceremonial sword of Benin.
Their ooni wearing Benin beeds.
Their ooni copying the royal uniform of the ashanti
....
All copying, even the current crown of their ooni is the copy of an archeological finding ...

Copy copy copy, no originality, thy name is y.ariba

Copy-copy tribe made in 1808.[/s]

davidmarker:
[s]An other fake regarding yoruba "history":

https://www.theartnewspaper.com/news/african-art-experts-say-that-sixth-century-sculpture-returned-to-nigeria-is-a-forgery

'Stolen' ancient sculpture returned to Nigeria is 'the kind of fake you could buy on eBay', African art expert says[/s]

samuk:


Did you read that document properly? Did you skip where it says that the Asaba people migrated to Asaba from the sovereign of the Oba of Benin due to wars?

Did you read where a clear distinction was made between Asaba people and Ibo/Igbo people of which they were amalgamated?

Did you read were it says Asaba people have different habits from Ibo/Igbo people?

Did you read the part it says the Asaba people still retained Benin words, phrases and habits in 1875?

Did TAO11 borrowed you her lenses?

RedboneSmith:
Argh! I'm having great difficulty uploading the other versions from 1901 and 1914, which all agree in general (though differ in some specifics) with the 1879 version already uploaded. Repeat: Benin does not feature as a point of origin in any of these versions; and the present generation of Asaba people sure as heck don't make the claim. Will keep trying to upload.

Note: Ntemedsah = Ntemeje =Nteje, a town in present-day Anambra State from which Nnebisi (Nebissi) is said to have hailed. There's still a popular street in Asaba (Nnebisi Road) named after him.


Clarification: I am posting from the paper by Professor Elizabeth Isichei. But concerning the versions of the traditions, they are direct quotations from the original sources (which are fully cited.)

samuk:


Are you serious or just trying to be funny? I can see why AreaFada2 didn't waste his time engaging you. Surely you can't be this ignorant, no, I refuse to believe it.

RedboneSmith:
Argh! I'm having great difficulty uploading the other versions from 1901 and 1914, which all agree in general (though differ in some specifics) with the 1879 version already uploaded. Repeat: Benin does not feature as a point of origin in any of these versions; and the present generation of Asaba people sure as heck don't make the claim. Will keep trying to upload.

Note: Ntemedsah = Ntemeje =Nteje, a town in present-day Anambra State from which Nnebisi (Nebissi) is said to have hailed. There's still a popular street in Asaba (Nnebisi Road) named after him.


Clarification: I am posting from the paper by Professor Elizabeth Isichei. But concerning the versions of the traditions, they are direct quotations from the original sources (which are fully cited.)

gregyboy:



The truth yoruba history can never hold weight without benin history by it side


See your earliest writer samuel johnson, on so many instances on his book he had to specify benin separately in his book history of yorubas



If you need the other instances just say yes and i would pour them out


The truth is yoruba history cannot survive without benin history by it side, benin oba agreeing to be one of oduduwa sons in early times for political gains was the biggest achievement yoruba ever had


Samuel johnson called the oba of benin, king of benin while he called other yoruba kings by their title

Why did he do this,

So he wont sound foolish calling the king of benin oba, and yet still use the word oba as a generic term to adress yoruba monarch

He was very foolish


TAO11
TAO12
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Amujale
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lx3as
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Moderator
Afam4eva
RedboneSmith


Etinosa1234
Davidnazee
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Valirex
Etrusen



Emphasis on including benin


This useless yoruba man refuse to call oba of benin is title throughout his book, he referred tp oba of benin as king of benin throughout and called the various yoruba monarch their respective titles and also used the term oba as a generic name for them


Is it not obvious this guy had plans

davidmarker:
The yoruba whom are aware of the fact the truth about their passed has been revealed in this thread are actively spamming it in order to flood the true information I and other Edo people provided. yoruba don't like the truth, nor do they like logics, those are their two biggest enemies.
Gregyboy, as I told you this debate ended years ago, but ofcourse the yoruba would just spam the thread and repeat nonsensical statements to oblivion. This is one of the reasons I often delete my accounts. I don't want to waste too much time doing over and over a thing which I have already finished.
Proving over and over the same thing.
Some people with low brain activity wouldn't understand. When I chose to not reply, it is because I have spotted a non ending cycle.
So to those who will remain on nairaland, it is left for you to use the info which I provided and to always use your brain.
There is no debate, everything has been proven, only low IQ would allow anybody think the yoruba have a point.

TAO11:
This is in reply to the dummy who just quoted you above.

He seems to have just admitted from his own personal evidence that Benin kingdom was under the Great Empire during the reign of Alaafin Ojigi.

More so, Ojigi was clearly called ”king” in this account. So, what was the dumb point he was making again?

Whoever that dullard was, thank you for sharing your evidence with us to prove that Benin kingdom was under the Great Oyo Empire.

samuk:


This is usually how our engagement always ends with a lot of premium tears from you.

Hope you have thoroughly enjoyed yourself. Those two assignments are now your cross to carry.

Should we meet again you will be reminded if you have proved these simple questions (Yoruba 1808 creation and Benin/Ife relationship early than 1800).

TAO11:
If you can show me ANY ancient Benin artwork whose naturalism and realism meets up with any of the following two’s, then I promise to allow you peddle lies freely on Nairaland without checks and control. I promise.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12769978_675abba9d9564c2a9dccbada6660916f_jpeg_jpeg27a46c1bc047f1e86dc445535a6a98d9
www.nairaland.com/attachments/12769979_5ae1b03b628943719aad9fbe9e13c73b_jpeg_jpega3d9f3de8494386a47ac23021a7e81b9

This is your opportunity to peddle lies continually and freely on Nairaland ad-infinitum without any checks or control.

I hope you won’t let this golden “opportunity” pass you by.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12764287_de9efd884dd04412b99c8d69ce358463_jpeg_jpeg391622a325de641aa1c52b75d1e20ac0

Cheers

I’d cc: Nairalanders who are nether Yoruba nor Edo to be the judge: Afam4eva, RedboneSmith, Juliusmalema,

samuk:


Let's look at the evidences provided.

1. 1875 missionary report by Bishop Crowder who was in Asaba in 1875. Crowder told us that as of 1875 Asaba people who were different in habits from Ibo/Igbo have already been amalgamated with Igbo people, which means Abasa people and Igbo people were leaving together as one. The account of Asaba people Crowder recorded says they migrated from the sovereign of the Oba of and still retained words and phrases from the Benin language as of 1875 and pays the Oba of Benin great veneration.

2. Bishop Ajayi Crowder was neither Benin nor Igbo and there is no evidence that he speaks Benin or Igbo. One can not see bias either way in his written records.

3. Your later reference claimed to have been written in 1879, 4 years after Crowder visit gave an oral account by an Igbo speaker. Hope you can spot the possible bias.

4. All your other subsequent accounts were given by those who lived amongst Igbo and spoke the Igbo language fluently.

In summary, we have two accounts.

1. From a truly independent eyewitness witness whose account is older being written in 1875.

2. From Igbo speakers irrespective of were they came from.

3. Before you argue that some of these guys were from Sierra Leone, may I quickly remind you that the earliest Yoruba historians like Samuel Johnson who wrote favourably about the Yoruba and Oyo was also from Sierra Leone.

4. Most of these people from Sierra Leone who were mostly freed slaves that found their ways to Nigeria wrote favourable about their adopted part of Nigeria. Though majority of them settled amongst the Yoruba, others found their ways to other parts of Nigeria including Benin City, settled and adopted those places.

It's left for others to read both accounts and draw their own conclusions.