Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ did not come for those who were already righteous in their ways.. He came for those who are sinners... And yes, His promise of salvation is for those who are sinners..

Let's no confuse ourselves, Yes Jesus came for everyone because we are all sinners, but everyone has that choice to choose and obey Jesus by quitting sin or to belief and still remain in sin, the former has eternal life as promised by Jesus why the latter do not have eternal life but will receive damanation in Hell.

Kobojunkie:
That is what Jesus Christ, the New Covenant between God and man, taught His followers. His teaching are made known right there in the gospels, not the epistles.

I don't understand you.

Kobojunkie:
Like I have said to you several times now....you have to read the Bible to learn to Truth of God.

There is no truth higher than the one I have shared on this Forum.

FirstSon01:


lol
not all atheists agree to the theory of evolution. it is what it is (a theory).


p.s. I'm sort of agnostic so I don't believe anything just like that.

Ok, but you seems to have grudges against christianity.

Ihedinobi3:




Well, you certainly have the advantage of me here. As long as this is a lying and insulting contest, I have no chance of winning.

As for the issue of discussing things multiple times, I wasn't speaking of repetition. I myself often repeat things I teach several times. It depends on the context, and as I said, I'm here to teach, so if a question is asked more than once, I am likely to provide the same answer more than once. The issue instead is of starting arguments over the same thing multiple times. That need to debate something so many times is often indicative of a deep-seated concern that it is false. Each time that you convince yourself that you won a debate, you hope to convince yourself by that presumed victory that you are actually right. That is why the Bible tells us to stay away from "divisive" or argumentative people after admonishing them twice (Titus 3:9-11).

If someone is confident that what they teach is the truth, one of the signs (although it is by no means a conclusive sign that it actually is the truth) is that they stop starting arguments over it. They will answer questions about what they believe when asked. They will independently develop teachings on it too if they are teachers by gifting, but they won't be hunting debates up and down to get embroiled in. That is all I was saying to you.

I really don't care what you teach. As I said, I have already satisfied myself that you don't care what the truth is, so I am not about to get mired in meaningless and abusive debates with you. Believe what you please and teach what you like. It is to the Lord that you will answer, not to me. My job is to teach the truth, to warn those who are risking God's Anger, to encourage those who are seeking or persevering in the truth, and to answer the questions of those who need help understanding biblical teachings, not to quarrel with anyone who disagrees with me or to make anyone believe what I teach.

Were is the evidence of the argument?
Do the two topics have the same meaning or teaching?

blueAgent:

Ok, but you seems to have grudges against christianity.

not necessarily i was one before so I know it in and out

blueAgent:

There is no truth higher than the one I have shared on this Forum.

There is no such thing as HIGHER truth... There is only one TRUTH -all the rest are nothing but lies.

blueAgent:

Let's no confuse ourselves, Yes Jesus came for everyone because we are all sinners, but everyone has that choice to choose and obey Jesus by quitting sin or to belief and still remain in sin, the former has eternal life as promised by Jesus why the latter do not have eternal life but will receive damanation in Hell.

Jesus Christ Never commanded anyone to "quit sin" before they believe in Him. So yes, He calls sinners to believe in Him in order be saved from the condemnation of sin which is death and be given eternal life instead.

There is no former or later to this as you claim. There is the commandments to believe in Him and receive eternal life - a commandment issued to those who are unbelievers( sinners who do not believe in Him) by the way. Once anyone obeys that one commandment to believe, one is gifted with eternal life and is considered saved.

blueAgent:

Those bible are evident that whosoever claims to believe in jesus but does not obey his commandments is destined for Hell.

Claimss? No!

Jesus Christ made it clear instead that those who will enter Hell for eternity are part of His sheep, I.e. they believe in Him/are saved and so have eternal life which they will instead spend in Hell for eternity.

FirstSon01:


not necessarily
i was one before so I know it in and out

Hi there.

This is a common claim from atheists, but I've never seen it backed by any actual evidence. Why do you feel so sure that you know the in's and out's of Christianity just because you were one before? Do you understand that Christianity is more than just that Gospel that we hear to become saved?

Many people, the vast majority of Christians in fact, never get beyond that rudimentary level of faith. Very few grow spiritually, much less become spiritually mature, at which point the full outline of biblical teaching has been apprehended by them. Even fewer progress any further to get more and more mature in the truth. The very highest level of Christianity is attaining to ministry, that is, getting to a point where the Christian is able to use their unique spiritual talents -- whatever those may be -- to help their fellow believers to also grow spiritually and fulfill ministry. It is a ridiculous minority that ever gets there. This is not in the least due to the gap between arriving at the threshold of spiritual maturity and becoming worthy of ministry. That gap is the testing phase.

Some people think that the Christian Life is hard because of all the temptations we face, but that is nothing at all compared to the tests of maturity. The tests of maturity are a real challenge. Unless a believer passes them, they never get to ministry. It does not mean that we cannot do some things to help others spiritually: We certainly can, but full-fledged ministry is the spiritual equivalent of finally landing a full-fledged professional career in this world. You simply cannot become a trusted minister in God's house until you have proved your love for the Church by suffering through different sets of difficulties for her. That involves taking pains to prepare oneself too for ministry. For pastor-teachers, that preparation can include studying ancient and church history, learning the languages in which the original manuscripts of the Bible were written, and learning textual criticism. None of this is a small task at all.

Now, if you are an atheist, it is really hard to believe that you took the trouble of seeking out a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher who could teach you everything that the Bible has to teach so that you could grow to spiritual maturity, much less bother to suffer for Christ, to say nothing at all of ministering to fellow believers in deliberately designed ways to help them learn and know the whole Truth of the Bible. If you did any of this, I can't even begin to think how you would be willing to throw all that hard work away. For me, it took all my life to find a pastor-teacher at almost 32. From childhood, I read all manner of literature including the various works of the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Roman Catholic way, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Pentecostals, even the Reformers, all in a bid to try to understand what I read in the Bible. I destroyed career opportunities I had, sacrificed relationships, lost a huge amount of time pursuing understanding of the Bible. I have absolutely no intention of giving up that understanding now for any reason. It came at too great a cost, and Heaven knows that when it finally came, it was better than the hope I dared to have of it. I'm still working at qualifying for ministry even now. At what point could I possibly just decide to give it all up? What does this world have to offer that could even begin to rival what I have got so far, to say nothing of what more I hope to get? That is why these claims by atheists such as yourself that you know something about Christianity always leaves me mildly amused and significantly confused.

Of course, this is not to say that people who reach a great height in Christianity could never fall away. We could fall even when we are right at the doorstep, but it gets harder and harder to fall away the closer we get to the Lord. That is my point here.

I seriously doubt that you know anything that the Bible teaches. But you certainly should know the Gospel that once saved you, although you don't believe it anymore. Maybe you went far enough to also appreciate some of the more fundamental teachings of the Truth, such as the Trinity, the doctrine of baptisms, etc. I don't know. But it is hard to imagine that you went the whole hog and then realized that it was nothing worth having.

Hello friend, longest time.

Your topic brought me here. It's quite an interesting one and indeed, you've done justice to it.

Your submissions are true; they can be proven from the Bible. Well done!

But...

blueAgent:
...anyone who does not make Heaven is wicked in the sight of God

As it concerns the above claims in bold. By making heaven, what do you mean exactly? Living or going to heaven to spend eternity? If yes, can you prove it from the Bible?

Good to see you bro.

Splinz:
Hello friend, longest time.

Your topic brought me here. It's quite an interesting one and indeed, you've done justice to it.

Your submissions are true; they can be proven from the Bible. Well done!

But...



As it concerns the above claims in bold. By making heaven, what do you mean exactly? Living or going to heaven to spend eternity? If yes, can you prove it from the Bible?

Good to see you bro.

Thank you for the compliments.
I understand your opinion on this subject having read your article on it, my position or opinion which is backed by the Bible is that Heaven will be the temporary home of the saved until after the 1000yrs, when God have created the new Heaven and Earth for the righteous or saved to dwell and inherit the Earth.

Kobojunkie:
Claimss? No!

Jesus Christ made it clear instead that those who will enter Hell for eternity are part of His sheep, I.e. they believe in Him/are saved and so have eternal life which they will instead spend in Hell for eternity.

You are really confused.
No where did God or Jesus promise sinners eternal life.
You are misquoting and confusing Bible verses.

How can one be saved and still go to Hell?
Was Jesus saving grace not sufficient?

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ Never commanded anyone to "quit sin" before they believe in Him. So yes, He calls sinners to believe in Him in order be saved from the condemnation of sin which is death and be given eternal life instead.

There is no former or later to this as you claim. There is the commandments to believe in Him and receive eternal life - a commandment issued to those who are unbelievers( sinners who do not believe in Him) by the way. Once anyone obeys that one commandment to believe, one is gifted with eternal life and is considered saved.

All lies
What do you mean by believe in him(Jesus)?

My friend No one will enter Heaven becos he only believed in Jesus without works.

FirstSon01:


not necessarily
i was one before so I know it in and out

You were one before, that makes my point valid.

blueAgent:

All lies
What do you mean by believe in him(Jesus)?
My friend No one will enter Heaven because he only believed in Jesus without works.

Again, believing in Jesus Christ only grants you eternal life I.e. Salvation( saved from the condemnation of sin which is death). It does not guarantee anyone heaven.

Read the Gospels to learn what Jesus said.

blueAgent:

You are really confused.
No where did God or Jesus promise sinners eternal life.
You are misquoting and confusing Bible verses.

How can one be saved and still go to Hell?
Was Jesus saving grace not sufficient?

I believe the confusion is entirely yours. Yes, sinners who believe in Jesus Christ are gifted with eternal life. Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ tell you that you first need to stop being a sinner to be saved.

Open your eyes and read the Gospels as they are written so you can better comprehend what is in fact written and separate them from the lies you have believed instead. Jesus Christ came for the sinners...and it to them He offers salvation. His calls that they believe in Him and to all those who do, He gives eternal life which can in turn be spent either in Hell or in Heaven.

Kobojunkie:
I believe the confusion is entirely yours. Yes, sinners who believe in Jesus Christ are gifted with eternal life. Nowhere in the Gospels does Jesus Christ tell you that you first need to stop being a sinner to be saved.

Open your eyes and read the Gospels as they are written so you can better comprehend what is in fact written and separate them from the lies you have believed instead. Jesus Christ came for the sinners...and it to them He offers salvation. His calls that they believe in Him and to all those who do, He gives eternal life which can in turn be spent either in Hell or in Heaven.

Like I asked you before define "what is the meaning of to believe in Jesus"?
Bible verse for you to ponder.

John 3:15. “Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”

Kobojunkie:
Again, believing in Jesus Christ only grants you eternal life I.e. Salvation( saved from the condemnation of sin which is death). It does not guarantee anyone heaven.

Read the Gospels to learn what Jesus said.

That's a lie, no unsaved sinner has eternal life, only the saved ,righteous will have eternal life.


https://www.nairaland.com/5520177/man-satan-immortality

blueAgent:

That's a lie, no unsaved sinner has eternal life, only the saved ,righteous will have eternal life.

https://www.nairaland.com/5520177/man-satan-immortality

You need to read the Gospels so as to understand Jesus Christ's message to you about Salvation and eternal life. The Gospel of John goes into details on what Salvation is about( what you are saved from, how you are saved and who is saved, and what salvation guarantees). John goes into detail to ensure no one confuses salvation with being born again, and what the differences are between the two - not a direct comparison but enough is explained of each to ensure no one mistakenly confuses the one with the other.

Of the saved, only those who do works of righteousness will enter the Kingdom of Heaven- the rest, Hell is built for.

Ihedinobi3:


Hi there.

This is a common claim from atheists, but I've never seen it backed by any actual evidence. Why do you feel so sure that you know the in's and out's of Christianity just because you were one before? Do you understand that Christianity is more than just that Gospel that we hear to become saved?

Many people, the vast majority of Christians in fact, never get beyond that rudimentary level of faith. Very few grow spiritually, much less become spiritually mature, at which point the full outline of biblical teaching has been apprehended by them. Even fewer progress any further to get more and more mature in the truth. The very highest level of Christianity is attaining to ministry, that is, getting to a point where the Christian is able to use their unique spiritual talents -- whatever those may be -- to help their fellow believers to also grow spiritually and fulfill ministry. It is a ridiculous minority that ever gets there. This is not in the least due to the gap between arriving at the threshold of spiritual maturity and becoming worthy of ministry. That gap is the testing phase.

Some people think that the Christian Life is hard because of all the temptations we face, but that is nothing at all compared to the tests of maturity. The tests of maturity are a real challenge. Unless a believer passes them, they never get to ministry. It does not mean that we cannot do some things to help others spiritually: We certainly can, but full-fledged ministry is the spiritual equivalent of finally landing a full-fledged professional career in this world. You simply cannot become a trusted minister in God's house until you have proved your love for the Church by suffering through different sets of difficulties for her. That involves taking pains to prepare oneself too for ministry. For pastor-teachers, that preparation can include studying ancient and church history, learning the languages in which the original manuscripts of the Bible were written, and learning textual criticism. None of this is a small task at all.

Now, if you are an atheist, it is really hard to believe that you took the trouble of seeking out a gifted and prepared pastor-teacher who could teach you everything that the Bible has to teach so that you could grow to spiritual maturity, much less bother to suffer for Christ, to say nothing at all of ministering to fellow believers in deliberately designed ways to help them learn and know the whole Truth of the Bible. If you did any of this, I can't even begin to think how you would be willing to throw all that hard work away. For me, it took all my life to find a pastor-teacher at almost 32. From childhood, I read all manner of literature including the various works of the Jehovah's Witnesses, the Roman Catholic way, the Seventh-Day Adventists, the Pentecostals, even the Reformers, all in a bid to try to understand what I read in the Bible. I destroyed career opportunities I had, sacrificed relationships, lost a huge amount of time pursuing understanding of the Bible. I have absolutely no intention of giving up that understanding now for any reason. It came at too great a cost, and Heaven knows that when it finally came, it was better than the hope I dared to have of it. I'm still working at qualifying for ministry even now. At what point could I possibly just decide to give it all up? What does this world have to offer that could even begin to rival what I have got so far, to say nothing of what more I hope to get? That is why these claims by atheists such as yourself that you know something about Christianity always leaves me mildly amused and significantly confused.

Of course, this is not to say that people who reach a great height in Christianity could never fall away. We could fall even when we are right at the doorstep, but it gets harder and harder to fall away the closer we get to the Lord. That is my point here.

I seriously doubt that you know anything that the Bible teaches. But you certainly should know the Gospel that once saved you, although you don't believe it anymore. Maybe you went far enough to also appreciate some of the more fundamental teachings of the Truth, such as the Trinity, the doctrine of baptisms, etc. I don't know. But it is hard to imagine that you went the whole hog and then realized that it was nothing worth having.

Hello Ihedinobi3,
I read through all you said and I must confess I'm more than impressed. I was baptized in church, was a children teacher (sort of children pastor cause it was one class in a small church), and also an usher. Before then I was a Bible scholar and I'm not bragging there's no Bible quiz I went to and didn't come out top 3. I also in a bid to get answers searched the scriptures cover to cover multiple times but I must say I wasn't impressed. There's a lot of contradictions, unanswered questions and I must say the Bible isn't complete.


I didn't become an atheist in just a day of course, it's a gradual process that even still I'm still open to finding answers to and I don't mind if you can help me

blueAgent:

Like I asked you before define "what is the meaning of to believe in Jesus"?
Bible verse for you to ponder.

John 3:15. “Whoever hates his brother is a murderer, and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him.”

Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Himself, the Word of God, is the Law and the Lawgiver. The New Covenant commandments are found detailed in the Gospels, in the Words/teachings and Life of Jesus Christ, not in the letters of John.

You want to know what it means to " believe". He gave you the command and it's application, written in His words, in the Gospels.
And even James reminds you of how easy it is when He tells you that even Demons believe.

FirstSon01:



Hello Ihedinobi3,
I read through all you said and I must confess I'm more than impressed. I was baptized in church, was a children teacher (sort of children pastor cause it was one class in a small church), and also an usher. Before then I was a Bible scholar and I'm not bragging there's no Bible quiz I went to and didn't come out top 3. I also in a bid to get answers searched the scriptures cover to cover multiple times but I must say I wasn't impressed. There's a lot of contradictions, unanswered questions and I must say the Bible isn't complete.


I didn't become an atheist in just a day of course, it's a gradual process that even still I'm still open to finding answers to and I don't mind if you can help me

Bible quizzes were normal to my childhood experience except for one thing. I had and still have a terrible memory, so quizzes that required verbatim recall of Bible passages and specific verses and chapters were almost guaranteed to be failures for me. I can find almost anything in the Bible today, but even now I can rarely remember the exact rendition of any passage or the exact verse where it is. I find things by context and I recall by paraphrasing. Memory is still my weakness.

Also I was never a children's pastor, but I used to lead Bible studies. I was an usher for a little bit too. Where I was most visible was around music -- I used to sing. So, somewhat similar story here.

The difference between me and you, it would seem, is that I persevered in seeking the truth. I never doubted the authenticity and reliability of the Bible nor did I ever find a meaningful reason to even want to. I found fault with every single church I ever attended, with every pastor that I ever tried to submit to, with every teaching ministry I ever came across, with every book/article I ever read, with every televangelist that I ever watched, with even my own interpretations of the Bible, but never with the Bible. I have never had any reason at all to doubt the Bible's reliability, but pursuing understanding in its teachings was a back-breaking task. Because I distrusted even common sense and every other authority in my life, I couldn't make anything of worth out of my life with my considerable talents until I understood what the Bible teaches.

This is not absolutely necessary to everyone's experience. The sacrifices I made and still make are my own path, but everyone is called to patience in following the Lord.

18 Therefore the LORD will wait, that He may be gracious to you;
And therefore He will be exalted, that He may have mercy on you.
For the LORD is a God of justice;
Blessed are all those who wait for Him.
Isaiah 30:18 (NKJV)

Although the Lord is really the one waiting for us, since our hearts are calloused by our love of sin and it generally takes several divine operations to bring us around to readiness to receive His truth, we have to demonstrate our own sense of value for the truth by waiting however long it takes and sacrificing whatever we have to in order to get the truth, if we really want it. We do this very thing with everything that we really want, after all. For all the complaints about anything at all, no one who really wants a PhD in, say, physics, drops out just because it takes so long or because your mates make far more money than you for years after you finish your first degree. If it is that important to you and you think that the payout is both worth it and certain, then you will grit your teeth, do the program, and graduate.

This sense of value for God's Truth is something that I have found missing in atheists and even in many Christians, because very few people are interested in the Cross that Jesus warned everyone who might have a mind to follow Him about.

23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:23-26 (NKJV)

The idea of the Cross touted in Pentecostal circles now is that it is this brief period of material suffering that serves as a prelude to great material wealth. That is sheer madness. The cross of the Christian is a lifelong war against the influence of the ways of this world over him or her and against his or her own desires that oppose God's Truth revealed in the Bible. It is a steadfast rejection of all things that do not submit to God. So, it is hardly brief nor connected to material wealth. This is often the problem. In your case, you just unilaterally reached a verdict on the Bible and closed it so that you could fashion your own way independent of God. Why? Because God did not show up at the time you demanded that He do and because He did not do things the way you thought that He should. But He is God, so why should He come at your beckoning or operate according to your demands?

This then is the difference between me and you: I don't believe that I am God, so I do not have any illusions about my right or ability to command reality, but you do. I am willing to live under the limitations of my circumstances, to accept limitation as a creature made by God, but you are not. Not that I am judging you or anything you've done, I'm just contrasting the definition of a Christian with the definition of an atheist.

Now, with respect to your invitation at the end, I do not decline, but I'll tell you what I've told at least one other atheist: You can't persuade a man with good eyes that the sky is blue. If a seeing man looks at the sky and insists that it is green, you have absolutely no chance of convincing him otherwise. If he does not trust his own eyes, why should he trust you? This is a demonstration of how free will works. If you expect me to give you answers that will persuade or convince you of anything, you will be quite disappointed. We choose what we believe. All of us do. Not that the truth is hard to see for oneself, rather it is because we have the ability to ignore the truth and pretend that it is something that it isn't. If you think I'm selling you a load of hogwash, consider flat-earthers. Have you ever tried to convince a flat-earthers that the earth is really a spherical-ish thing? You'll appreciate what I mean then. If, as far as you are concerned, the Bible is contradictory and incomplete, then nothing I say will make a difference to you. If, on the other hand, you are willing to see if maybe you are wrong about that conclusion, then maybe I can help you. But beware that you can deceive your own self about whether you are willing or not to see such a thing. The heart of man is a very deceitful and desperately wicked thing.

blueAgent:


Thank you for the compliments.
I understand your opinion on this subject having read your article on it, my position or opinion which is backed by the Bible is that Heaven will be the temporary home of the saved until after the 1000yrs, when God have created the new Heaven and Earth for the righteous or saved to dwell and inherit the Earth.

Thank you.

Do you mind to expound on how this will work out? You did a great job with the hell topic. I trust you can do it again.

Please prove it.

Kobojunkie:
Jesus Christ, the New Covenant Himself, the Word of God, is the Law and the Lawgiver. The New Covenant commandments are found detailed in the Gospels, in the Words/teachings and Life of Jesus Christ, not in the letters of John.

You want to know what it means to " believe". He gave you the command and it's application, written in His words, in the Gospels.
And even James reminds you of how easy it is when He tells you that even Demons believe.

You are confusing yourself.

Splinz:


Thank you.

Do you mind to expound on how this will work out? You did a great job with the hell topic. I trust you can do it again.

Please prove it.

That's a lot of work but I will respond with soon.

blueAgent:


That's a lot of work but I will respond with soon.

Thank you.

Ihedinobi3:


Bible quizzes were normal to my childhood experience except for one thing. I had and still have a terrible memory, so quizzes that required verbatim recall of Bible passages and specific verses and chapters were almost guaranteed to be failures for me. I can find almost anything in the Bible today, but even now I can rarely remember the exact rendition of any passage or the exact verse where it is. I find things by context and I recall by paraphrasing. Memory is still my weakness.

Also I was never a children's pastor, but I used to lead Bible studies. I was an usher for a little bit too. Where I was most visible was around music -- I used to sing. So, somewhat similar story here.

The difference between me and you, it would seem, is that I persevered in seeking the truth. I never doubted the authenticity and reliability of the Bible nor did I ever find a meaningful reason to even want to. I found fault with every single church I ever attended, with every pastor that I ever tried to submit to, with every teaching ministry I ever came across, with every book/article I ever read, with every televangelist that I ever watched, with even my own interpretations of the Bible, but never with the Bible. I have never had any reason at all to doubt the Bible's reliability, but pursuing understanding in its teachings was a back-breaking task. Because I distrusted even common sense and every other authority in my life, I couldn't make anything of worth out of my life with my considerable talents until I understood what the Bible teaches.

This is not absolutely necessary to everyone's experience. The sacrifices I made and still make are my own path, but everyone is called to patience in following the Lord.

18 Therefore the LORD will wait, that He may be gracious to you;
And therefore He will be exalted, that He may have mercy on you.
For the LORD is a God of justice;
Blessed are all those who wait for Him.
Isaiah 30:18 (NKJV)

Although the Lord is really the one waiting for us, since our hearts are calloused by our love of sin and it generally takes several divine operations to bring us around to readiness to receive His truth, we have to demonstrate our own sense of value for the truth by waiting however long it takes and sacrificing whatever we have to in order to get the truth, if we really want it. We do this very thing with everything that we really want, after all. For all the complaints about anything at all, no one who really wants a PhD in, say, physics, drops out just because it takes so long or because your mates make far more money than you for years after you finish your first degree. If it is that important to you and you think that the payout is both worth it and certain, then you will grit your teeth, do the program, and graduate.

This sense of value for God's Truth is something that I have found missing in atheists and even in many Christians, because very few people are interested in the Cross that Jesus warned everyone who might have a mind to follow Him about.

23 Then He said to them all, “If anyone desires to come after Me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross daily, and follow Me. 24 For whoever desires to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for My sake will save it. 25 For what profit is it to a man if he gains the whole world, and is himself destroyed or lost? 26 For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words, of him the Son of Man will be ashamed when He comes in His own glory, and in His Father’s, and of the holy angels.
Luke 9:23-26 (NKJV)

The idea of the Cross touted in Pentecostal circles now is that it is this brief period of material suffering that serves as a prelude to great material wealth. That is sheer madness. The cross of the Christian is a lifelong war against the influence of the ways of this world over him or her and against his or her own desires that oppose God's Truth revealed in the Bible. It is a steadfast rejection of all things that do not submit to God. So, it is hardly brief nor connected to material wealth. This is often the problem. In your case, you just unilaterally reached a verdict on the Bible and closed it so that you could fashion your own way independent of God. Why? Because God did not show up at the time you demanded that He do and because He did not do things the way you thought that He should. But He is God, so why should He come at your beckoning or operate according to your demands?

This then is the difference between me and you: I don't believe that I am God, so I do not have any illusions about my right or ability to command reality, but you do. I am willing to live under the limitations of my circumstances, to accept limitation as a creature made by God, but you are not. Not that I am judging you or anything you've done, I'm just contrasting the definition of a Christian with the definition of an atheist.

Now, with respect to your invitation at the end, I do not decline, but I'll tell you what I've told at least one other atheist: You can't persuade a man with good eyes that the sky is blue. If a seeing man looks at the sky and insists that it is green, you have absolutely no chance of convincing him otherwise. If he does not trust his own eyes, why should he trust you? This is a demonstration of how free will works. If you expect me to give you answers that will persuade or convince you of anything, you will be quite disappointed. We choose what we believe. All of us do. Not that the truth is hard to see for oneself, rather it is because we have the ability to ignore the truth and pretend that it is something that it isn't. If you think I'm selling you a load of hogwash, consider flat-earthers. Have you ever tried to convince a flat-earthers that the earth is really a spherical-ish thing? You'll appreciate what I mean then. If, as far as you are concerned, the Bible is contradictory and incomplete, then nothing I say will make a difference to you. If, on the other hand, you are willing to see if maybe you are wrong about that conclusion, then maybe I can help you. But beware that you can deceive your own self about whether you are willing or not to see such a thing. The heart of man is a very deceitful and desperately wicked thing.

See epistle
I managed to read the first one, but this??

well you got the answers you sort after, you believed the Bible and went to look for proof that it's genuine so definitely that's what you saw. did you bother to check-up how the Bible was compiled??
what about the many many contradictions in the Bible??
why the stories don't add up??


if I have time next year I might write extensively here on this errors in the Bible but for now lemme just say the Bible isn't complete.


funny how jesus changed all old testament laws like the one that said you must not plant two different crops in the same plot, the one that said you must not wear silk and linen together, no need for burnt offerings anymore but monetary offerings and tithes must remain huh

What about those that says they went to hellfire and came back, and see people burning when they went to hell?

Arrowss:
What about those that says they went to hellfire and came back, and see people burning when they went to hell?

GIBBERISH

You say the devil is in hell, but the bible says he came to tempt Jesus.
Was it that they had a special holiday and he was allowed to come out.

Truth: the devil isnt in hell his final resting place will be the lake of fire.

You say no one is in hell yet bit Jesus say the the rich man opened his eyes after his death and was thirsty because he was in hell.

Truth: people are very much in hell right now.


You say the fires of hell will burn people to ashes.

Truth: the bible says all the dead whose name wasn't found in the book of life will be condemned to the lake of fire and be tormented for ever, day and night.
Spirit beings, which we will all become one day doesn't die in the actual sense of dying on earth.