Splinz:


Sorry, I'm not one of them.



Friend, they've been answered. Please take your time to go through your own questions again and then see my response to them, side by side. I took my time to make sure nobody misses it.

But of course if you feel there's something I didn't cover, please don't hesitate to draw my attention. Let's reason it together.


You did not answer them.

If God will burn the Earth with fire where will the saved be at that time?
IF the bible says the new Jerusalem comes down from Heaven, does it mean that the saved will be on Earth while it comes down.can you explain it ?

I need to clear my doubts, am here to learn.

For the mean checkout this sites and there take on it.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/46/t/satan-in-chains


https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/29/t/heaven--is-it-for-real-


Thanks bro.



Regards.

MaxInDHouse:
There is no place called Hellfire, it's the figment of the imagination of hardhearted people who want to see those who offended them tortured!

Splinz:
Hello friend, thank you for your response.



Not really. I wanted us to have a foundation, starting with Christ's arrival. This is to make for easy understanding of events thereafter. I like it when it's one step at a time. So let's go...



No. Here's the truth:

"For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the revealing of the sons of God. For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God, For we know that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together until now" (Romans 8:19-22).

There you have it. The creation itself, i.e, the universe, awaits the glorious revealing of the sons and daughters of God, in order to be set free from its bondage and decay. This will happen when Christ sits on the "throne of his father David" and the saved are some sort of inaugurated or commissioned by Christ to begin the government of God or heaven on Earth. This period will spans for a thousand years in the first instance.

It's God own pleasure to renew the face of the Earth through His glorified sons and daughters; the saved.



Throughout the Bible, the word “heaven” is used to describe three locations: First, there is the atmosphere that envelops the earth; this is the first heaven. Next, the vast regions of outer space are collectively referred to as “heaven,” or “the heavens” (Psalms 115:16); this is the second heaven. Finally, the location of God’s throne is specifically called “the third heaven” by Paul (II Cor. 12:2).

Since no one is going into the third heaven - God's throne, even David is not in heaven (John 3:13, Acts 2:34), only two possibilities remain;

1. Outer space

2. The atmosphere or clouds (1 Thes. 4:17).

With our knowledge of physics, also note, clouds, as mentioned in 1 Thes. 4:17, are only a few miles above the earth. In fact, flying an airplane is in a sense, going to heaven.

So then, I Thes. 4:17 does not picture people going to the third heaven, but the glorified saints ascending into the atmosphere. Consider:

Christ arrives Jerusalem and is seated on His throne (Matt. 25:31-34). Next, He send out His angels to gather His elects from the four corners of the earth (Matt. 24:30-31). How else are the angels supposed to gather the saints if not through ascension and descension, what some people called the act of "disappearing and appearing"?

Again, note that these glorified saints are to appear before Christ's judgement seat, and it has been established that this is not in heaven but right here on Earth: Jerusalem.



The word in bold says it all; reserved in heaven. Simply put, a Christian's reward is kept or reserved in heaven, to be revealed or given to those that are worthy at the coming of Christ. That it is reserved in heaven does not mean the saved are to go to heaven in order to get it: Christ is bringing it. Here's it:

"And behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to give to every one according to his work" (Rev. 22:12). Did you see that? He is coming with His reward and not us going to get it.

My friend, please let's talk another time. If there's anything I missed, please bring it forth.

Many thanks.

blueAgent:


You say you are a pastor-teacher?

Show me how I am wrong.

I did not write the Bible neither you,
You have no right to select Bible verses that suit your preconceived idea why leaving out other Bible verses that contradicts your idea.

You and other self acclaimed men of God are guilty of that.

Why are you running away from some Bible verses why picking some?

Why not write your own Bible.

Are you sure you are a pastor? Because as one you should correct me when am wrong rather than shy away.

What if am a thief or a prostitute and I happen to come across you, does it mean that you cannot point out my sins and correct me using God's word?

blueAgent:


I cannot remember insulting you all less when provoked by you.
Secondly you are fond of dodging questions that box you into a corner.

I really want you to debate with me,becos that's the purpose of this thread to open people's eyes to the truth of God's word and that I can achieve when you debate with me. but it seems you are afraid to challenge.

A couple of years ago I was like you, I believed in eternal Hell, immortality of the soul and all the lies our clergymen has told us, although they are also ingnorant sometimes, till God opened my eyes and I saw the truth.
Remember Jesus said you shall know the truth and it shall set you free.
I do not debate or write thread to win arguments, why will I do that, I barely have time for myself, if you observe I left nairaland especially posting written articles for months because of the stress, rather my aim is through debate and carefull analyses people see the error in their argument and I also learn more.

For us to continue in a debate we need to agree to some rules.
1. No question would be left unanswered.
2. Every bible verse must agree with each other rather than contracdict themselves.
3. We must apply logic and sense to each issue.
4. That God's word is the final opinion not man.
And many others I cannot remember now.
5. No insults.
6.

sonmvayina:
Why are you guys so fixated about what happens after death. You guys are missing the whole point. Life is for living. God only gave us his laws to guide us in the journey. Whatever happens after death will take care of itself..Anybody saying anything about after desth..is speculating...

Torah is a guide for life. I don't get why so many people are fixated on death. That's not living, imho.

ihedinobi2:


Yes I say that I am a pastor-teacher.

I just gave you two links to go and examine for my answers to your thread. I believe that they demonstrate your error. If you don't believe that they do, then you have to explain to me what you think I have failed to account for in your arguments. That is, you have to either ask clarifying questions or make counter arguments. If you don't, I can't do any better than I have done.

Of course I didn't write the Bible, nor did I claim that I did. Also I don't claim any right to cherry-pick Bible verses. So you need to explain your accusation.

I'm not sure what Bible verses you believe that I'm running away from. Which ones did you have in mind? I must also point out that it would be folly to expect that every Bible verses applies to every single Bible teaching. For example, do we use John 3:16 to teach that God created everything that exists or that He restored this creation in seven days? Of course not. John 3:16 can certainly come into play when we teach God's ex nihilo creation of all things, but that is not what itself teaches directly, is it? That is what the Bible calls "cutting straight (or rightly dividing) the Word of Truth" (2 Timothy 2:15).

I'm a pastor-teacher, not a prophet, so it is not my job to write anything new. My job is to explain or teach what has already been written by the inspiration of the Lord God Himself.

It is not my job to correct anyone who does not want correction. I told you that the Scriptures command us to only admonish divisive (or heretical) people twice and then leave them to their own devices. People have a free will. If they don't want to hear the truth, it is folly to teach it to them.

4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV)

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Matthew 7:6 (NKJV)

I certainly have a duty to do the work of an evangelist just like Timothy, himself another pastor-teacher, had (2 Timothy 4:5), but even so, not everyone who needs the truth actually wants it, and we have been warned by the Lord Himself in the last passage above to make sure that the people we are giving the truth to are people who are worthy of it.



https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire#97334652. That's the link. You quoted my post there, so you can take a look and point out what the provocation was and whether your own response was not an insult.

What questions do you believe boxed me into a corner and how did they box me into a corner? Does it occur to you that I am not under your control, so I can choose whether or not to answer questions as I please? Does it occur to you that a question you ask might be unreasonable and therefore not worth answering? There can be more than one possible reason why someone does or doesn't do something.

I know that you want a debate, but that's not my problem. I have limited time and energy in this world and I have many responsibilities. When I come to Nairaland, I'm here for only one of those responsibilities, so I pick and choose what activities I get involved in here in keeping with my goals. I have discussed what my goals here are. And you don't qualify as one of those who want help with the truth. Even your stated reason for a debate is in order to use your assumed victory to show the readership of this thread that you are speaking the truth. In other words, you don't expect to be corrected. You're quite sure that you are right about what you are teaching. So keep believing it and teaching it. I won't try to correct you. If it turns out that you were only deceiving God's children, well then, you must bear your judgment when it finally arrives at your doorstep. If you are right, on the other hand, you can always enjoy what rewards are yours as a result. I don't partake in either. As for being afraid to challenge, suffice to say that you don't know me at all. And reverse psychology is wasted on me. The only thing that would make me discuss this matter with you is if you were asking a question or discussing a point on which you wanted better understanding. Neither is true of you. You are here as a teacher -- and a false one too. So I'm not interested.

A couple of years ago, you were better off than you are now.

Sure, "clergymen" are wrong a lot of the time. That's why I finally quit "going to church" five years ago. Couple of years after that, God very generously brought me to the pastor-teacher who opened the Scriptures up to me. I have not ceased to be grateful for that. That is why I'm here to offer the same kindness that God showed to me through His obedient son.

You should probably read the things you write after you write them. You can't both not debate or write threads to win arguments and also expect to use arguments to show people how they are wrong. It is either you debate to win and show people that they are wrong or you debate without caring whether you win or show people that they are wrong. So you are quite mistaken about your own motives. Perhaps you are not being completely honest with your own self -- just as I told you in the beginning.

As I have said several times now, it is impossible for you and me to debate any matter on this platform productively, so I will not debate with you. To demonstrate, let us look at your rules, shall we?

Rule #1: First of all, if I agreed, I would be responsible to answer even unreasonable questions. Second, even if I were willing to answer unreasonable questions, the very nature of the questions will make any answer I give unacceptable to you unless the answer is the one that you hoped to force me to give. This is why you have accused me of leaving a lot of questions unanswered on your other thread.

Rule #2 : Of course the whole Bible must agree, but some passages are really not directly connected with each other, and some passages do say opposite things that other passages reconcile. For example, I have pointed out that John 3:16 and Genesis 1 are not directly connected. For another example, the Scriptures say in Proverbs 26:4 that you are not to answer a fool according to his folly, but the very next verse tells you to do so. The only reason that both things can be true is because of passages like Acts 5:1-13. Such passages teach that sometimes you answer a fool so that others can be corrected. Otherwise, you don't. This is what "rightly dividing (or cutting straight) the word of truth" means: connecting the right Scriptures to each other in the right ways. That is what the gift of pastor-teaching makes anybody able to do after they have been taught the Scriptures.

Rule #3: I certainly hope so, but biblical reasoning sometimes makes human logic look silly. That is one reason that the Bible is called the Wisdom of God (Luke 11:49; Proverbs 2:6) or the Mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). So, whereas I always try to be reasonable in argument, I don't necessarily subscribe to human logical paradigms especially when discussing the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 3:18-20).

Rule #4: Of course God's Word ought to be the final authority (I don't consider His Word an opinion), but whether or not we agree on what that means is not something this rule actually ensures. Rather, it is a bogus statement when two people don't agree on what constitutes God's Word. You might think (and I think that you do) that your interpretation of the Bible is God's Word, whereas I believe that the actual text of the Bible is God's Word. Then we have a problem.

Rule #5: Of course, but you just said that you don't insult without provocation. It remains to be seen what you consider provocation and what you think an insult is.

In short, as I have said before, believe what you will. I came on this thread to advise you not to keep starting debates over things that you believe, since doing so is really a way to mislead fellow believers in Jesus Christ. about the truth. If you think that what you believe is true, then don't keep starting debates over it. Just carry on with it. Offer it as an answer whenever people ask questions or want to discuss the point. Evangelizing it as aggressively as you're doing might be showing that you know deep inside of you that it is false but each new "victory" you think you have in a debate makes you think that you are right and hardens your heart some more against the truth. If in doing this you end up misleading children of God, it would be better for you that you had a heavy millstone tied around your neck and you were drowned in the sea than that God judged you for it.

1 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves.
Luke 17:1-3a (NIV)

17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3:17 (NIV)

Please feel free to ignore me. What you do is entirely your business. Both reward and consequence are yours to worry about, not mine. So I am not going to engage you again unless the spiritual health of fellow believers on this platform requires it of me.

ihedinobi2:


Yes I say that I am a pastor-teacher.

I just gave you two links to go and examine for my answers to your thread. I believe that they demonstrate your error. If you don't believe that they do, then you have to explain to me what you think I have failed to account for in your arguments. That is, you have to either ask clarifying questions or make counter arguments. If you don't, I can't do any better than I have done.

Of course I didn't write the Bible, nor did I claim that I did. Also I don't claim any right to cherry-pick Bible verses. So you need to explain your accusation.

I'm not sure what Bible verses you believe that I'm running away from. Which ones did you have in mind? I must also point out that it would be folly to expect that every Bible verses applies to every single Bible teaching. For example, do we use John 3:16 to teach that God created everything that exists or that He restored this creation in seven days? Of course not. John 3:16 can certainly come into play when we teach God's ex nihilo creation of all things, but that is not what itself teaches directly, is it? That is what the Bible calls "cutting straight (or rightly dividing) the Word of Truth" (2 Timothy 2:15).

I'm a pastor-teacher, not a prophet, so it is not my job to write anything new. My job is to explain or teach what has already been written by the inspiration of the Lord God Himself.

It is not my job to correct anyone who does not want correction. I told you that the Scriptures command us to only admonish divisive (or heretical) people twice and then leave them to their own devices. People have a free will. If they don't want to hear the truth, it is folly to teach it to them.

4 Do not answer a fool according to his folly,
Lest you also be like him.
Proverbs 26:4 (NKJV)

6 “Do not give what is holy to the dogs; nor cast your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn and tear you in pieces.
Matthew 7:6 (NKJV)

I certainly have a duty to do the work of an evangelist just like Timothy, himself another pastor-teacher, had (2 Timothy 4:5), but even so, not everyone who needs the truth actually wants it, and we have been warned by the Lord Himself in the last passage above to make sure that the people we are giving the truth to are people who are worthy of it.



https://www.nairaland.com/6326489/understanding-facts-truth-hellfire#97334652. That's the link. You quoted my post there, so you can take a look and point out what the provocation was and whether your own response was not an insult.

What questions do you believe boxed me into a corner and how did they box me into a corner? Does it occur to you that I am not under your control, so I can choose whether or not to answer questions as I please? Does it occur to you that a question you ask might be unreasonable and therefore not worth answering? There can be more than one possible reason why someone does or doesn't do something.

I know that you want a debate, but that's not my problem. I have limited time and energy in this world and I have many responsibilities. When I come to Nairaland, I'm here for only one of those responsibilities, so I pick and choose what activities I get involved in here in keeping with my goals. I have discussed what my goals here are. And you don't qualify as one of those who want help with the truth. Even your stated reason for a debate is in order to use your assumed victory to show the readership of this thread that you are speaking the truth. In other words, you don't expect to be corrected. You're quite sure that you are right about what you are teaching. So keep believing it and teaching it. I won't try to correct you. If it turns out that you were only deceiving God's children, well then, you must bear your judgment when it finally arrives at your doorstep. If you are right, on the other hand, you can always enjoy what rewards are yours as a result. I don't partake in either. As for being afraid to challenge, suffice to say that you don't know me at all. And reverse psychology is wasted on me. The only thing that would make me discuss this matter with you is if you were asking a question or discussing a point on which you wanted better understanding. Neither is true of you. You are here as a teacher -- and a false one too. So I'm not interested.

A couple of years ago, you were better off than you are now.

Sure, "clergymen" are wrong a lot of the time. That's why I finally quit "going to church" five years ago. Couple of years after that, God very generously brought me to the pastor-teacher who opened the Scriptures up to me. I have not ceased to be grateful for that. That is why I'm here to offer the same kindness that God showed to me through His obedient son.

You should probably read the things you write after you write them. You can't both not debate or write threads to win arguments and also expect to use arguments to show people how they are wrong. It is either you debate to win and show people that they are wrong or you debate without caring whether you win or show people that they are wrong. So you are quite mistaken about your own motives. Perhaps you are not being completely honest with your own self -- just as I told you in the beginning.

As I have said several times now, it is impossible for you and me to debate any matter on this platform productively, so I will not debate with you. To demonstrate, let us look at your rules, shall we?

Rule #1: First of all, if I agreed, I would be responsible to answer even unreasonable questions. Second, even if I were willing to answer unreasonable questions, the very nature of the questions will make any answer I give unacceptable to you unless the answer is the one that you hoped to force me to give. This is why you have accused me of leaving a lot of questions unanswered on your other thread.

Rule #2 : Of course the whole Bible must agree, but some passages are really not directly connected with each other, and some passages do say opposite things that other passages reconcile. For example, I have pointed out that John 3:16 and Genesis 1 are not directly connected. For another example, the Scriptures say in Proverbs 26:4 that you are not to answer a fool according to his folly, but the very next verse tells you to do so. The only reason that both things can be true is because of passages like Acts 5:1-13. Such passages teach that sometimes you answer a fool so that others can be corrected. Otherwise, you don't. This is what "rightly dividing (or cutting straight) the word of truth" means: connecting the right Scriptures to each other in the right ways. That is what the gift of pastor-teaching makes anybody able to do after they have been taught the Scriptures.

Rule #3: I certainly hope so, but biblical reasoning sometimes makes human logic look silly. That is one reason that the Bible is called the Wisdom of God (Luke 11:49; Proverbs 2:6) or the Mind of Christ (1 Corinthians 2:16). So, whereas I always try to be reasonable in argument, I don't necessarily subscribe to human logical paradigms especially when discussing the Scriptures (1 Corinthians 3:18-20).

Rule #4: Of course God's Word ought to be the final authority (I don't consider His Word an opinion), but whether or not we agree on what that means is not something this rule actually ensures. Rather, it is a bogus statement when two people don't agree on what constitutes God's Word. You might think (and I think that you do) that your interpretation of the Bible is God's Word, whereas I believe that the actual text of the Bible is God's Word. Then we have a problem.

Rule #5: Of course, but you just said that you don't insult without provocation. It remains to be seen what you consider provocation and what you think an insult is.

In short, as I have said before, believe what you will. I came on this thread to advise you not to keep starting debates over things that you believe, since doing so is really a way to mislead fellow believers in Jesus Christ. about the truth. If you think that what you believe is true, then don't keep starting debates over it. Just carry on with it. Offer it as an answer whenever people ask questions or want to discuss the point. Evangelizing it as aggressively as you're doing might be showing that you know deep inside of you that it is false but each new "victory" you think you have in a debate makes you think that you are right and hardens your heart some more against the truth. If in doing this you end up misleading children of God, it would be better for you that you had a heavy millstone tied around your neck and you were drowned in the sea than that God judged you for it.

1 Jesus said to his disciples: “Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come. 2 It would be better for them to be thrown into the sea with a millstone tied around their neck than to cause one of these little ones to stumble. 3 So watch yourselves.
Luke 17:1-3a (NIV)

17 If anyone destroys God’s temple, God will destroy that person; for God’s temple is sacred, and you together are that temple.
1 Corinthians 3:17 (NIV)

Please feel free to ignore me. What you do is entirely your business. Both reward and consequence are yours to worry about, not mine. So I am not going to engage you again unless the spiritual health of fellow believers on this platform requires it of me.

blueAgent:


Do you think God is foolish for writing and informing us about what happens after death in his Book the Bible?

Do you know that Africa and the whole World are held captive to Satan and his Demons becos of ignorance of what happens after death?

Example if our Ancestors and people knew the truth that once a person dies he does not continue to live in any form in the other World as is been claimed neither can they help the living, we will no longer do things like Idol worship, consultation of dead ancestors, and many wicked and Satanic traditions which we presently practice will be stopped.

No wonder Jesus said you shall know the truth and it shall set you free.

sonmvayina:


God only gave us his laws to guide us in this life...he NEVER said anything about what happens after death.

Death is just an illusion...

Anything anybody tells you is a fuckkking lie..

blueAgent:



You must be a joker.
From genesis to revelation God gave enough insight on death.

How is death an illusion?

You mean death does not exist?

sonmvayina:


Yes bro..death does not exist. That is why God is going to destroy it.it is a deception.

We are spiritual beings dwelling in a physical body made from the dust of the earth..at conception the spirit enters and death it is seperated from the body. Read ecclesiatics 12:7.
Psalm 104:29-31 says " send forth your spirit and they are created and replenish the earth, take it and they die and return back to earth from where they were taken"..it is Gods spirit that is living inside this body..

God only gave us laws to follow while the spirit is inside this body...when it leaves it becomes one with God just as the body becomes one with the earth...

Back to default settings..

blueAgent:


That's false.

The spirit referred to in ecclesiatics 12:7, is the life force from God it's like electric energy that powers a radio or TV.
Please Click here and read more on spirit of man.

https://sthelenaca.adventistchurch.org/about/worship-with-us/bible-studies/dr-erwin-gane/immortal-soul

blueAgent:


That's false.

The spirit referred to in ecclesiatics 12:7, is the life force from God it's like electric energy that powers a radio or TV.
Please Click here and read more on spirit of man.

https://sthelenaca.adventistchurch.org/about/worship-with-us/bible-studies/dr-erwin-gane/immortal-soul

sonmvayina:


So what goes to hell fire ??

sonmvayina:


Lol...the truth will set you free, but first it will piss you off..