TAO11:
[s]First of all, it’s a book. Not a paper, nor a letter.

This is addressed in details at the tail end.

Carrying on.

Lol, can you direct me to where the book said “the Benin were the ones who named Eko”.

You actually which it said that. Don’t you? Lol.

Lol. No the book didn’t say “other Portuguese account”.

Instead, it says: “OLDER Portuguese account”.

In other words — the Portuguese “Curamo” is older in comparison to the Binis “Korame”.

It thus becomes clear which is based on which.

I’m not sure what book you’ve been consulting, because what you denied is precisely what the book says. Calm down, okay?

The French:
“le captain Horseley nous l’a appelée Eco*, et c’est ainsi que la désignent les Ijebus”

Basic Word-by-Word Translation:
“Captain Horsely referred to it as Eco, and that is how it was designated by the Ijebus”

Moreover, this name designation (aka coinage) was not from thin air (and I never claimed it was) as will be seen again shortly.

There is nothing here like if I say.

The book already makes it clear that the Binis’ Korame is recognizably the OLDER Portuguese “Curamo”.

The book thus makes it clear that the Portuguese “Curamo” is the older.

It cannot thus possibly have its root in the relatively recent term “Korame” — No be juju be that? LMAO!

Your advice is for you actually — take it.

Anyways, I already made it clear (from my comment which you’re quoting here) that the Ijebus’ designation “Eko” is not from thin air.

I admitted plainly that it was based on the Dutch “Ichoo”. See the embedded screenshot.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12998822_5c1947d6c1d3417e88f60e1bde3d6a72_jpeg_jpeg33a88d586812fcccc506190e4c8eb96b

So, I’m not sure what double standards you’re referring to. Lol.

That is the very point I’ve been making. Thank you.

It doesn’t have to have any meaning in Benin language — because it was never an indigenous Benin word to start with.

Instead, it corresponds (according to this book) to an older foreign term, viz. the Portuguese “Curamo” — which itself is apparently based on another older foreign term.

“Eco” of this text is one and the same thing as “Eko”.

It will only be dumb, foolish, and inane to plead and pretend otherwise.

According to the text, Captain Horsely wrote down “Eco” which was from the Ijebus’ designation.

Basic common sense informs any stable mind that those Ijebus never spelt the word for him, but rather pronounced it.

He (just like anyone else) has the liberty to transcribe the sound /k/ either with the letter “c” or with the letter “k” which this book have clearly used interchangeably.

Yes, if you rip out this short phrase away from the context of the immediate passage in which it is found, the following would be the resulting self-refuting conclusion you would reach:

That the Binis came to Lagos for the first time, and they took ownership of their space on the island after they had negotiated and discussed with the grasses, the stones and the lagoon, etc (going by the Lagos account).; or after that had engaged in warfare with the grasses, the stones, and the lagoon, etc. (going by the Benin account).

But if you place the phrase back into the surrounding passage in which it was found, then you would realize from the context of the passage that the phrase says absolutely nothing about autochthonous ownership.

Rather, you would quickly realize that the phrase relates to the Benin’s relative right to a particular space on the island over the Ijebus who met them at the space — both of whom are not autochthonous owner of an inch of the land, but rather both immigrants.[/s]

Nor be by to talk long story... Go straight to the point
Captain Horseley called it eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs

I'm still wondering what's hard to understand in this simple text.

The author made a simple comparison...

He clearly says that the Curamo which is lagos can be recognised in older Portuguese reports..Just like Eko, not Eco was used to represent Ichoo in Dutch...

In other words, he says that the word curamo is used in a similar way as Ichoo is used to represent Korame and eko respectively

That's to say that on other Portuguese reports, the land called Korame is referred to as Curamo by the Portuguese while in Dutch reports, the word Eko is referred to as Ichoo by the Dutch

For the last time, the author says that anywhere u see curamo in older Portuguese reports, it refers to the land Korame just as wherever u see the word Ichoo in Dutch reports , it refers to Eko...

He doesn't specifically say who originated the name but rather mentions the name given by different parties

I can't believe I had to interpret it like 4 times as if I'm chatting with a baby



Moreover present eyewitness accounts that clearly says this

That the Binis came to Lagos for the first time, and they took ownership of their space on the island after they had negotiated and discussed with the grasses, the stones and the lagoon, etc (going by the Lagos account).; or after that had engaged in warfare with the grasses, the stones, and the lagoon, etc

Samuk areafada2, gregyboy Etrusen edeyoung

Christistruth00:


It already Proved Ijebu took over metropolitan Lagos and drop Benin to an Isolated tip of Lagos Island.

They are still there in Eastern Lagos today!!!!!

Nope ... It says that the Ijebu took over a narrow piece of land ... not the metropolis

Etinosa1234:

Nope ... It says that the Ijebu took over a narrow piece of land ... not the metropolis

How come much of Metropolitan Lagos is in Ijebuland ?

Etinosa1234:
[s]Nor be by to talk long story... Go straight to the point
Captain Horseley called it eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs

I'm still wondering what's hard to understand in this simple text.

The author made a simple comparison...

He clearly says that the Curamo which is lagos can be recognised in older Portuguese reports..Just like Eko, not Eco was used to represent Ichoo in Dutch...

Moreover present eyewitness accounts that clearly says this[/s]

You have said nothing different from the very things I already debunked. Yes, I see your agitated now.

(1) You just admitted that the Portuguese “Curamo” is the OLDER.

You also admitted that the the Benin “Korame” corresponds to the older term “Curamo”.

Yet, you somehow still insta that the older one came from the newer one.

Is everything okay??

(2) The same referent, place, location Eko is also referred to as Eco. And it is said to come from the Dutch “Ichoo”.

I’m actually not surprised that you’re clutching at straws now.

But I can imagine exactly how you feel now.

(3) What is eyewitness account and what does it say?

I’d like to see the eyewitness account that says Benin immigrants met no native in Lagos.

Etinosa1234:


According to the French translation, it says that the Benin call it Korame....

Its not expected that the foreigner be able to write our word very well...

The korame doesn't have a meaning in Benin word and we don't Start words with the letter "k" and when pronouncing Ekorame, the "e" would be silent (Etrusen, hope I'm correct in this) esp if foreigners pronounce it. .

Now given the fact that Benin had more influence in Lagos(Eko)than ijebu, it's more logical that the Word Ekorame (camp of waters) given by the Benin was shortened by the Ijebus to eko... Thus Benin are the originator of the name Eko

Now if she says that korame was gotten from the Portuguese word curamo, its only logical that the korame would mean cure also in Benin as it is in Portuguese

An example of Portuguese word in Benin is spoon
Spoon means colher in Portuguese
Spoon means ekuye in Benin..

This debunks the claim that korame was a borrowed word


Samuk, areafada2, BornRicch

Actually our words had no spellings because we had no alphabet.
the europeans gave spellings to our words by using their alphabets and trying to form words which their countryment would pronounce the same way we pronounce our words. The problem is that the europeans have several languages, so the way a portuguese would spell our word might be different from the way a french would spell it. It all comes from there.

Curamo is how the portuguese spelled the name the Oba of Benin gave to Lagos and Korame is the way the french chose to spell it.

TAO11:
[s]You have said nothing different from the very things I already debunked. Yes, I see your agitated now.

(1) You just admitted that the Portuguese “Curamo” is the OLDER.

You also admitted that the the Benin “Korame” corresponds to the older term “Curamo”.

Yet, you somehow still insta that the older one came from the newer one.

Is everything okay??

(2) The same referent, place, location Eko is also referred to as Eco. And it is said to come from the Dutch “Ichoo”.

I’m actually not surprised that you’re clutching at straws now.

But I can imagine exactly how you feel now.

(3) What is eyewitness account and what does it say?

I’d like to see the eyewitness account that says Benin immigrants met no native in Lagos[/s].

What is this one saying? Are u drunk?

Captain Horseley called it eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs

I'm still wondering what's hard to understand in this simple text.

The author made a simple comparison...

He clearly says that the Curamo which is lagos can be recognised in older Portuguese reports..Just like Eko, not Eco was used to represent Ichoo in Dutch...

In other words, he says that the word curamo is used in a similar way as Ichoo is used to represent Korame and eko respectively

That's to say that on other Portuguese reports, the land called Korame is referred to as Curamo by the Portuguese while in Dutch reports, the word Eko is referred to as Ichoo by the Dutch

For the last time, the author says that anywhere u see curamo in older Portuguese reports, it refers to the land Korame just as wherever u see the word Ichoo in Dutch reports , it refers to Eko...

He doesn't specifically say who originated the name but rather mentions the name given by different parties

I can't believe I had to interpret it like 4 times as if I'm chatting with a baby

Ulsheimer account clearly says that Benin were in military control of the land when he mentioned abt soldiers and military generals in Lago and not traders

Where is ur eyewitness account that Benin negotiated land with Awori?

Infact from 1603 to late 17th century, there was no ruler in Lagos because of Benin direct military control over the land through the military

So who was the other independent ruler in Lagos apart from The Oba of Benin?

nocomment2:


Actually our words had no spellings because we had no alphabet.
the europeans gave spellings to our words by using their alphabets and trying to form words which their countryment would pronounce the same way we pronounce our words. The problem is that the europeans have several languages, so the way a portuguese would spell our word might be different from the way a french would spell it. It all comes from there.

Curamo is how the portuguese spelled the name the Oba of Benin gave to Lagos and Korame is the way the french chose to spell it.

Gbam!!!

It was due to the inability of the French to be able to pronounce Ekorame which obviously had a silent "e"..

The French called it Korame.
The Portuguese called it curamo

As simple as that text is, I wonder what's hard for that guy to understand

She legitly expects a foreigner to be able to pronounce the word very well

The one thing you will always notice about the yoruba is incredible ungratefulness. When you teach them something, they will pretend they discovered it on their own. When they copy you, they will pretend you copied them. They are full of lies (their national reputaion) and they are backstabbers and copiers.
I can't even count the number of times they have copied me, ofcourse no thank you, no recognition, they just pretend they came up with it.

Below you will see where I was teaching the master of this lunatic tao that Ouyo means ijo and I was also proving him to be a liar peddling a fake translation of the french text which I earlier posted.

Etinosa1234:


What is this one saying? Are u drunk?

Captain Horseley called it eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs

I'm still wondering what's hard to understand in this simple text.

The author made a simple comparison...

He clearly says that the Curamo which is lagos can be recognised in older Portuguese reports..Just like Eko, not Eco was used to represent Ichoo in Dutch...

In other words, he says that the word curamo is used in a similar way as Ichoo is used to represent Korame and eko respectively

That's to say that on other Portuguese reports, the land called Korame is referred to as Curamo by the Portuguese while in Dutch reports, the word Eko is referred to as Ichoo by the Dutch

For the last time, the author says that anywhere u see curamo in older Portuguese reports, it refers to the land Korame just as wherever u see the word Ichoo in Dutch reports , it refers to Eko...

He doesn't specifically say who originated the name but rather mentions the name given by different parties

I can't believe I had to interpret it like 4 times as if I'm chatting with a baby

Ulsheimer account clearly says that Benin were in military control of the land when he mentioned abt soldiers and military generals in Lago and not traders

Where is ur eyewitness account that Benin negotiated land with Awori?

Infact from 1603 to late 17th century, there was no ruler in Lagos because of Benin direct military control over the land through the military

So who was the other independent ruler in Lagos apart from The Oba of Benin?

For the one thousandth time Oba of Lagos himself telling you with his own mouth at 5.45 Minutes "Benin are not the owners of Lagos'



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOsp9VLRFno



Get over it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Let Jesus Christ deliver you from addiction to lies

Etinosa1234:


Gbam!!!

It was due to the inability of the French to be able to pronounce Ekorame which obviously had a silent "e"..

The French called it Korame.
The Portuguese called it curamo

As simple as that text is, I wonder what's hard for that guy to understand

She legitly expects a foreigner to be able to pronounce the word very well

Actually, the french and the portuguese were not wrong. You have to realize they were in the process of writing down words from a language which had no alphabet, no written form. So they created written words which their people (speaking their language) would pronounce in a way which would imitate how we pronounced our words. And ofcourse the portuguese don't pronounce written words the same way the french do. So inevitably, the portuguese and the french would write different spellings.

Also it seems different peoples in the region had different names for the cities and kingdoms, so the europeans were also writing down the names given to them by other locals...

Etinosa1234:

Nope ... It says that the Ijebu took over a narrow piece of land ... not the metropolis

The yoruba like to turn things upside down, they live in an alternate reality in which their slave ancestors were actually james bond/oduduway dropping from the sky with a golden chain (actually their ancestor did come with a chain, but it was around his legs and by boat when their ancestors were being deported after they were freed from slavery).

Etinosa1234:


What is this one saying? Are u drunk?

Captain Horseley called it eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs

I'm still wondering what's hard to understand in this simple text.

The author made a simple comparison...

He clearly says that the Curamo which is lagos can be recognised in older Portuguese reports..Just like Eko, not Eco was used to represent Ichoo in Dutch...

In other words, he says that the word curamo is used in a similar way as Ichoo is used to represent Korame and eko respectively

That's to say that on other Portuguese reports, the land called Korame is referred to as Curamo by the Portuguese while in Dutch reports, the word Eko is referred to as Ichoo by the Dutch

For the last time, the author says that anywhere u see curamo in older Portuguese reports, it refers to the land Korame just as wherever u see the word Ichoo in Dutch reports , it refers to Eko...

He doesn't specifically say who originated the name but rather mentions the name given by different parties

I can't believe I had to interpret it like 4 times as if I'm chatting with a baby

Ulsheimer account clearly says that Benin were in military control of the land when he mentioned abt soldiers and military generals in Lago and not traders

Where is ur eyewitness account that Benin negotiated land with Awori?

Infact from 1603 to late 17th century, there was no ruler in Lagos because of Benin direct military control over the land through the military

So who was the other independent ruler in Lagos apart from The Oba of Benin?

That tao is extremely retarde.d. I keep saying it and I am not a cursing person, I only state what I see.
As you have noticed, this is not rocket science. But the retarde.d tao just can't comprehend. Google and copy-pasting couldn't explain this for him.

nocomment2:
The one thing you will always ntoice you yoruba is incredible ungreatfulness. When you teach them something, they will pretend they discovered it on their own. When they copy you, they will pretend you copied them. They are full of lies (their national reputaion) and they are backstabbers and copiers.
I can't even count the number of times they have copied me, ofcourse no thank you, no recognition, they just pretend they came up with it.

Below you will see where I was teaching the master of this lunatic tao that Ouyo means ijo and I was also proving him to be a liar peddling a fake translation of the french text which I earlier posted.

Lolzzz...

You went back to screenshot a page in the thread you were disgraced and chickened out like a coward deleting your account at the same time...Mr. French u go soon delete dis One...

Ideadoctor:
back to be beaten blue black, dumb gregyboy

Madman

nocomment2:


The actual translation:


"Captain Horseley called it Eco, and that is how the yebous refer to it; but it is not their land: it belongs to Benin, whom have named it Korame, you can recognise the Curamo from older Portuguese reports, just like Eko represents the Ichoo from Holland Hydrographs. Long ago Korame was linked to its metropolis by a very narrow piece of land contained between the great Laguna and the sea; but it has been a while since the Yebous have seazed that very narrow piece of land of which the eastern extremity was invaded by ouyo pirates; and Karamé remained isolated at the extremity of the great Laguna, while it continues to receive from Benin it's governor or political chief."

Notice also that the document states clearly that the Oba of Lagos is always a person sent from Benin city to Lagos.
So very clearly the Oba of Benin would chose a family memeber of his to go and rule Lagos.
Does this sound familiar: Enogie...
This explains why these titles are not hereditary. These were meant to be appointments offered by the Oba.
Any "kingship" in the region which is not hereditary means the "kingdom" was under a superior king whose throne was hereditary. The system was bastardized by the british when they took over.

AreaFada2:


The two common names for camp in Benin are Eko and later Ago. Ago became more popular for temporary civilian or farming settlements later. Though both were used militarily before too.

Benin is a very dynamic language. Words gain preference over others over time.

I like to watch Urhobo and Isoko films for example. There I hear words with clear Benin roots. Some were words still popular with old folks decade ago, all now late. In 25 years many people will believe that "kokodia" is purely only Urhobo word for coconut.

Okoro is pure Benin name for princes. Crown prince before investiture as EDAIKEN is called Okoro nokhua (Grand/Great Prince). Today Okoro is Urhobo name for "gentleman'.

Some only know Okoro as an Igbo name.

Everyone knows okoro as an Igbo name. Bini is too tiny to even have such influence let alone known name.

To every Nigerian Okoro is an Igbo name..case closed.

MelesZenawi:



Everyone knows okoro as an Igbo name. Bini is too tiny to even have such influence let alone known name.

To every Nigerian Okoro is an Igbo name..case closed.

Hmmm, reality is not your friend.

MelesZenawi:



Everyone knows okoro as an Igbo name. Bini is too tiny to even have such influence let alone known name.

To every Nigerian Okoro is an Igbo name..case closed.

Carry your attention out of here our okoro maybe spelt alike but not pronounced alikr


Our okoro is pronounced =okor but spelt okoro

Okor means an inherent head of a society or family or association

nocomment2:
Hmmm, reality is not your friend.

Shut it.
I don't waste my time on revisionist...
Never again are we going to tolerate such.

This tao11 na something else ;

to everybody, i believe meleszenawi is a yoruba. I stumbled upon one of his comments which seemed to paint him as a yoruba fantic and igbo hater.
I stand to be corrected, but I think he is one of those imposters claiming an other man's tribe.

gregyboy:



Carry your attention out of here our okoro maybe spelt alike but not pronounced alikr


Our okoro is pronounced =okor but spelt okoro

Okor means an inherent head of a society or family or association

Why do you want me to leave, so as to continue your revisionist. You guys run the most despicable facebook group I have ever seen under the universe. Great Bini and others.

A facebook group that discusses nothing except others . Why in a hurry to drive me out....You guys are really something else.

nocomment2:
to everybody, i believe meleszenawi is a yoruba. I stumbled upon one of his comments which seemed to paint him as a yoruba fantic and igbo hater.
I stand to be corrected, but I think he is one of those imposters claiming an other man's tribe.

You can say anything you want and believe whatever you want but one fact stands out that you guys aren't straightforward..

MelesZenawi:



Shut it.

I don't waste my time on revisionist...

Never again are we going to tolerate such.

i know you just want to repeat the word "revisionist" because i first said it, but you might want to learn the meaning of the word before stupidly repeating it. Eye-witness account is not revisionism.
the people doing revisionism are you and your yoruba friends who never quote eye-witnesses.

MelesZenawi:



You can say anything you want and believe whatever you want but one fact stands out that you guys aren't straightforward..

Reality is once again not your friend, i quote eye-witnesses, you can't be anymore straightforward than that.
You can't be any more truthful than that.
You guys like to call something a lie if it doesn't suit your ego. To you these are just words, you say "lie" because you don't like it. I provide hard proof and go through the highest standards of proving which you and your "tribesmen" don't even go through, yet afterwards, you just say "liar".

nocomment2:

i know you just want to repeat the word "revisionist" because i first said it, but you might want to learn the meaning of the word before stupidly repeating it. Eye-witness account is not revisionism.
the people doing revisionism are you and your yoruba friends who never quote eye-witnesses.

How old are you to be an eye witness to such history?

nocomment2:

Reality is once again not your friend, i quote eye-witnesses, you can't be anymore straightforward than that.
You can't be any more truthful than that.

You quote torn papers not evidence...

Tao11 is doing the right thing...not you binis.

No room for tolerance again...Never

MelesZenawi:



How old are you to be an eye witness to such history?

I quote eye-witnesses. I never said : "I am an eye-witness". Why are you people dumb ?

nocomment2:

The comment which you are replying clearly states: "I quote eye-witnesses". I never said : "I am an eye-witness". Why are you people dumb ?

Dumb is when your kingdom is tiny but you are claiming the whole world upto Ethiopia.

MelesZenawi:



You quote torn papers not evidence...

Tao11 is doing the right thing...not you binis.

No room for tolerance again...Never

so according to you, the person who provides the document he quotes and provides snapshots of where he quotes and the exact page is a revisionist while the person who hides whatever document he quotes or make up some of his quotes is a truth teller.
Reality is not you people's friend.
the extreme delusion of tao is clear for all to see, you guys have decided to blind yourselves and worhip the scam artist tao.
But just remeber, you are only creating your own version of berni madoff.

MelesZenawi:



Dumb is when your kingdom is tiny but you are claiming the whole world upto Ethiopia.

Once again, your self serving opinion contradicts eye-witness accounts.

let be logical,If Lagos indeed belongs to the Benin then why do Yoruba dominate Lagos today, was it that the Yoruba conquered the indigenous Edo settlers or Yoruba's were the indigenous settler,if Benin agree with the first thesis,then they should take heart,because lagos is gone for Good, Yoruba's won't open their eyes and watch you capture their big meat, but if Benin disagrees with the first thesis and support the second, then they are thieves that deserved to be hanged or shot,but if Benin does not agree with the first and second thesis, let them propose the third .