pazienza:


Don't be ignorant. My relatives are from Isele uku, as my cousin married an Isselle uku man. You don't know more about Issele uku than an Idemili man, we have been intermarrying with our Enu-ani brothers since antiquity, and indeed when Issele uku people came to marry my cousin, we all interacted in Igbo and understood each other.

The Deities in Issele-uku are normal Igbo deities. The name itself is an Igbo name. Naming towns with Ukwu/uku and Nta as suffix is a common Igbo pattern of naming towns in addition to the popular "Umu" prefix.
Hence you have Issele-uku, Onicha-uku, Ogwashi-uku in Enuani, while we have Enugwu-ukwu, Afam-uku,Lokpa-ukwu, Akirika-uku,Igbo-ukwu, etc in South East.

The distance from Issele uku to Ogidi my home town is closer than from Issele uku to Sapele or to Bini, so I don't understand what your rambling is all about.

The entire Anioma of course has relationship with Bini as neighbors and not as brothers, just as entire Nsukka has relationship with Igala as neighbors, entire Ndoki has relationship with "Ijaws" in Bonny and Opobo who are their neighbours, entire Aro,Abiriba, Edda, Ohafia have relationship with their minority neighbors in Cross River state.
It so to be expected. That doesn't make Issele uku Bini people as no Issele uku person can communicate with any Bini man.

You are the desperate Edoid man looking for kinship where non exits. The ruling house in Issele uku are the Umueze family. Does it sound Bini to you? Kings in Issele uku are called Eze with Obi as title, does any of that sound Bini to you?
The kingmakers in Issele uku are the Ogbolis who migrated from Nri.

I am yet to understand why you Edoids would want to be brothers with a people you can't communicate with without using pidgin. If I ask you to pronounce NNEKA now, you will pronounce INEKA , yet you want to force relationship with an NNEKA from Issele uku, where is your shame?

pazienza:
This is Igbide history. They are Edoid (Isoko) speakers today. They originated from Igbo land and settled amongst Isoko people who assimilated them as Isoko speakers. They no longer speak Igbo language or bear Igbo names. And you don't see Igbos claiming them, because we understand what acculturation and assimilation means.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igbide

Kirigidi:
Sometimes I marvel at your insecurity! Was it Edo that is claiming Issele-Uku or Issele-Uku themselves are the ones telling the world that they came from ancient Benin Empire? Before his coronation, the new king of Issele-Uku paid homage to the Oba of Benin and spent days in Benin according to traditions to learn rudiments of kingship. Did anyone force the Issele-Uku royal entourage to pay the Oba of Benin homage? Why did the Issele-Uku monarch chose to visit the Oba of Benin palace instead of the Obi of Onitsha palace or Eze Nri palace? Is Onitsha not even closer to Issele-Uku in distance than Benin City? Is that not enough evidence to convince you that Issele-Uku is historically and royally more attached/ closer to Benin than Igbos of the southeast? No matter how you pretend the truth is always plain. My stand is that the Issele-Uku indigenous people and their king know their history and origin as handed down to them by their ancestors. You that is from the southeast that knows nothing about Issele-Uku cannot change or alter their history. Period!

pazienza:



Don't be silly.

We know the relationship between the western Igbos and Edo/Edoids were not one way traffic

Many families in Anioma originated from Edo ,just as many families in Edo originated from Anioma.
However, while you Edoids maintain that you remain Edo despite having assimilated many Igbo speaking groups in your midst, you have refused to let Anioma stay Igbo, just because they assimilated some Edo people.
Does it make sense to you?

The Edo migrants in Anioma met aboriginal Igbo speaking groups there who acculturated them and made them Igbo speakers. These Edoid elements has therefore by this fact ceased to be Edo but Igbo. In similar manner, many Igbo speaking groups from Anioma and even as far as Anambra migrated into Edolands and became assimilated by indigenous Edo people they met there. These families no longer speak Igbo and don't bear Igbo names, and therefore has become Edo despite their migration from Igbo speaking territories.
You don't see Igbos trying to claim them and you don't see them trying to cause problems to their Edo hosts by chanting that they originated from Igbo land and therefore not Edoids or Edo, despite the fact that they had been assimilated as Edos and now speak Edo as first language.

If your in-law from Ezi migrated from Bini, its no big deal. It means he was an Edo man who migrated into Igbo speaking town called Ezi and became acculturated as Igbo by the indigenes he met on ground. What is the big deal in that? If he doesn't want to remain Igbo, why can't he migrate back to part of Edoland where his ancestors migrated to Ezi from?
Why come to another man land and start taking the accommodation given to you for granted by instigating identity crisis?

pazienza:


History of a people is not their exclusive right to change or distort, because a people history don't stand in isolation.
Issele uku and its monarch just because they are trying to lay claim to the "Ofo" (another ancient Igbo relic proving their Igbo origin) of Umuezechima from their brothers, will not be allowed to distort their history.
Our people in Idemili area have had ancient interaction with Ndi Enuani since antiquity and at no time do we know them as Bini speakers.
So when Obi Nduka wake up and start claiming they were Bini people that were converted to Igbo speakers by interactions with us across the Niger, it becomes our business to sqauash such fallacy, because it is an insult to our own memory and makes a fool of us. Our history has it that we had dealings with our fellow Igbo speaking brothers across the Niger. Iselle uku people don't have the right to change it without us objecting.

Issele uku suffers from Stockholm syndrome sustained from interactions with imperial Bini. Binis know that at no point were Issele people anything but Igbos who always spoke Igbo and whose Diokpas had ancient Igbo staff of authority called "Ofo". So why exactly are you lots feeding Issele uku Stockholm syndrome?

If someone you barely know wake up one morning and denied his brothers and start claiming you are his brother, even when you can't understand his language. Shouldn't you be questioning the sanity of such person rather than stupidly trying to claim him as a brother?

Daum:



You also don't be silly
Because I don't see Benin claiming Isele uku or Anioma. It is Isele uku that is attaching itself to Benin because they have a history with us than they have with people in Owerri. Even in Asaba here you see them inscribing the Benin ceremonial swords on their street signposts. Did Edo state givement make them do it. At the entrance of Isele uku you see the festac mask there, did benin people construct it or force them to put it there.

I just told you my ancestors are from Agbor, I don't speak on IKA. They migrated into Esan land. I am Esan. Full blooded Esan and Edo. I don't claim Agbor. But as my father told me, so will I tell my kids that my ancestors came from Agbor and today we are Esan. You see what we have in Ika land is a hybrid of so many people, Benins, Esans and others coming together. That's why it's difficult for an Ika man to say he is Igbo. My coursemate in Uniben then told me his ancestors were from a village in Orhiomwon but he now claims he is Ika. My friend will never agree he Igbo. I use to tease him then that he is Igbo but he never agrees to it.

No body is claiming your beloved Enu-ani people. They're simply proud of the fact that they associated with a great name like Benin and have a history with her. It's what they are proud of and it's what they will always flaunt weather you Igbo's from across the Niger like or not. The palace in Onitsha will still continue to dance with that Ada and Eben you see during their Ofala festival. It's their history, so let them be

pazienza:


Your Esan people have people of Igbo, Igala and Yoruba origins in your midst. So why are you still Esan?
Why don't we now call you a hybrid of many people and not Esan? I mean Ekpon people already speakers of Igboid language, the communities around Ilushi speak Igala.

The Bini have Yoruba people (Usen), and peoples of Igbo speaking and Izon origin in their midst, when then don't Bini stop being Bini, why don't they become a hybrid.
Or does this hybrid story only work in Igbo speaking areas?
Parts ofv Isoko have people of Edo, Bini, Ijaw and Urhobo origins, why don't they stop being Isoko and become some thing else to reflect the so called origin of groups they assimilated?

Eben and Ada doesn't belong to Bini.
Its more like a shared culture between the Bini, Anioma and Eastern Yorubas. Ofala celebration is rooted in Nri and not Bini and Onitsha monarch is proudly Igbo having successfully broken free from Bini fever.
There is nothing for an Igbo speaking group that are not insane to celebrate about Bini.
The famous Agbor historian E.A Iduwe made it clear that Bini was a smaller Kingdom to Agbor until they met the Portuguese who gave them superior power arms with which they used to intimidate neighboring Eastern Yoruba and Western Igbo groups for a while until weapons proliferation happened and everything normalized.

Daum:



You're saying Isele uku people should question their sanity right..... My guy your pride is too much. The itsekiris and the Benins agree that their monarchy came from Benin. The Benins and the yorubas agree that Oronmiyan came from Ile-ife to establish a dynasty. Where Oronmiyans father came from is their business, they can argue on that, but at least they agree that Oronmiyan came from Ile-ife. The Benin people and the Isele uku people agree that their monarchy came from Benin.....but you from somewhere across the Niger says that it is a lie, that Isele uku people and their king have mental issues....

Daum:



Wow, now I can see your main agenda is to commonize everything about Benin. How can you say Ada and Eben is a shares culture. Something that's of Benin origin and a symbol of imperial Benin....what are you saying...do you know the authority behind then Ada and Eben...you will never know because it's not your culture. Ada and Eben a shared culture.... I am done with you. Abeg no quote me again

Kirigidi:
The Igbos across the Niger are deficient in rich history, and vain pride will not allow them to accept the fact that Delta Igbos were once under the imperial rule of ancient Benin Empire. I am Urhobo and the name of my clan is "Agbon". There is historical relationship between my "Urhobo Agbon" and "Ika Agbor". History has it that our ancestor "Agbon" and his household migrated from ancient "Udo" near present day Benin city, settled temporarily around modern day Agbor town where he had his first son whom he named "Okpara" ( meaning first child)", before finally moving to our present location in the heart of Urhobo land. My clan ancestor possibly got the name "Agbon" during his sojourn in Ika land. So I believe you when you said the original name of "Agbor" was "Agbon". As proves of our ancestral interactions, there are so many words, proverbs, customs, traditions my Urhobo "Agbon" and Ika "Agbor" still share in common. For instance, in tribal meetings we Urhobo (Agbon clan) greet "isiagware", Ika (Agbor) also greet "isiagware". Urhobo call God "Osonobruwe", Ika Agbor call God "Osanobuwe". Traditional town hall is called "ogwa" in Urhobo, Ika Agbor also call it "ogwa". Urhobo call town/kindred quarters "ogbe", Ika also call it "ogbe". The list is numerous. Even the ancient name of Agbor "Ominijie" also features in our folklores. Ominijie in Urhobo can literally be translated as "congregation of many communities/ people". Ominijie is an Edoid word.

RedboneSmith:


Deficient of rich history.

What constitutes 'rich history' from your perspective? Having a king, instead of being rules by a council of elders, is that it?

pazienza:


The Yorubas believe Bini monarchy came from Ile Ife , a history Binis will not accept. So I don't know where the agreement you speak of come from.

It is common sense to know that a man called Ezechima cannot be from Bini. Have you seen a Bini man by the name Eze Chima.

We agree that Ezechima lived in the vicinity of Bini.
What we disagree is that he was ever a Bini man. We disagree that we ever met Umuezechima speaking anything but Igbo language, while they claim to be Bini speakers whose interaction with supernatural Igbos made to dump their Bini language for Igbo language.
This history is not acceptable to those of us across the Niger, because its a mockery of our memories and intelligence.

samuk:


You can't just wake up 300 years after the events and proclaim a different origin that suits your dogma to someone through your common sense after you have been told about that person's origin by descendants of that person.

You as a stranger can't tell the descendants of Ezechima the origin of their forefathers.

Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Genealogy and Nativity

"Thus, in tracing my paternal lineage, I could say that both parents of my father are direct descendants of Eze Chima. As for me, I can trace my paternal ancestry in this wise: I am the first son of Chukwuemeka, who was the third child and first son of Azikiwe, who was the second son of Molokwu, who was the third son of Ozomaocha, who was the second son of Inosi Onira, who was the fourth son of Dei, the second son of Eze Chima, the founder of Onitsha." SOURCE - Nnamdi A zikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p4 "I can trace my maternal ancestry thus: I am the first son of Nwanonaku Rachel Chinwe Ogbenyeanu (Aghadiuno)Azikiwe, who was third daughter of Aghadiuno Ajie, the fifth son of Onowu Agbani, first daughter of Obi Udokwu, the son who descended from five Kings of Onitsha. Five of these rulers of Onitsha were direct lineal descendants of Eze Chima, who led his warrior adventurers when they left Benin to establish the Onitsha city state in about 1748 AD." SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity" p5 "One day I asked her (grandmother) the meaning of the word 'Onitsha'. She explained that it had historical significance. The terminology meant one who despised another. It is a contraction of two words, Onini to despise, and Ncha meaning others. So that the two words when joined together mean one who despises others. Then I asked her why we despised others. She patted me on the back and told me that it was due to our aristocratic background and tradition. I insisted that she should explain to me the basis of this supercilious social attitude. She told me that we despised others because we descended from the Royal House of Benin and so regarded ourselves as the superiors of other tribes who had no royal blood in their veins....." "I continued to belabor my grandmother to tell me more of the history and origins of the Onitsha people. She narrated that many many years ago, there lived at Idu (Benin) a great Oba who had many children. Due to a power struggle regarding the right of precedence among princes of the blood and other altercations, there was a civil war in Benin. One day, the supporters of one of the princes insulted and assaulted Queen Asije, the mother of of the Oba of Benin, who was accused of having trespassed on their farmland. Enraged at this evidence of indiscipline and lawlessness, the Oba ordered his war chief and brother, Gbunwala Asije to apprehend and punish the insurgents. In the attempt to penalise them, Chima, the ultimate founder of the Onitsha city-state, a prince of the blood in his own right, led the recalcitrants against his Uncle, Gbunwala. This intensified the civil war which rent the kingdom of Benin in two and led to the founding of Onitsha Ado N'Idu....... ..." "As the great trek from Benin progressed, some did not have the stout heart of the pioneer-warrior, and decided to settle at different places, known today as Onitsha -Ugbo, Onitsha-Olona, Onitsha-Mili, Obior, Issele Ukwu, Ossomari, Aboh, etc..."

SOURCE - Nnamdi Azikiwe: My Odyssey, Chapter I (Spectrum Books, 1970) "My Genealogy and Nativity"

pazienza:


Nothing more than fantasy tales mothers tell children.
Like the stories of tortoise and the birds.

A rational person should know better than to take them literally.

No Bini man is ever named Ezechima, not now, not centuries ago.

Just as common sense should tell you that the tortoise never gave the mother vegetables to cook for it and then killed her when the cooked vegetables she served him was too Small relative to the raw vegetables he gave her to prepare. So should common sense tell you that a Bini man cannot be named Ezechima, irrespective of the fact that our mothers told us those stories in the kitchen.
Those were mere fairy tells. We call it "akuko mbekwu", in Igbo language. Mothers usually tell them to hungry children while they wait for food to get done in the kitchen.

Onitsha people on crossing the river Niger had to settle with Obosi Idemili people. And they were Igbo speaking and never Bini speaking. It was until Obosi had a fall out with Onitsha people that they were driven out of Obosi, and they went to their present location, where they met Ozeh people (An Igbo speaking clan), won them in war and drove them inner land to possesses where you call Onitsha today.

Ndi Idemili met Umuezechima as Igbo speaking people. Never were they Bini speakers. This is history as we know it, which Onitsha monarchy having broken free of "Bini fever" are now affirming today.

pazienza:


Nothing more than fantasy tales mothers tell children.
Like the stories of tortoise and the birds.

A rational person should know better than to take them literally.

No Bini man is ever named Ezechima, not now, not centuries ago.

Just as common sense should tell you that the tortoise never gave the mother vegetables to cook for it and then killed her when the cooked vegetables she served him was too Small relative to the raw vegetables he gave her to prepare. So should common sense tell you that a Bini man cannot be named Ezechima, irrespective of the fact that our mothers told us those stories in the kitchen.
Those were mere fairy tells. We call it "akuko mbekwu", in Igbo language. Mothers usually tell them to hungry children while they wait for food to get done in the kitchen.

Onitsha people on crossing the river Niger had to settle with Obosi Idemili people. And they were Igbo speaking and never Bini speaking. It was until Obosi had a fall out with Onitsha people that they were driven out of Obosi, and they went to their present location, where they met Ozeh people (An Igbo speaking clan), won them in war and drove them inner land to possesses where you call Onitsha today.

Ndi Idemili met Umuezechima as Igbo speaking people. Never were they Bini speakers. This is history as we know it, which Onitsha monarchy having broken free of "Bini fever" are now affirming today.

pazienza:


Nothing more than fantasy tales mothers tell children.
Like the stories of tortoise and the birds.

A rational person should know better than to take them literally.

No Bini man is ever named Ezechima, not now, not centuries ago.

Just as common sense should tell you that the tortoise never gave the mother vegetables to cook for it and then killed her when the cooked vegetables she served him was too Small relative to the raw vegetables he gave her to prepare. So should common sense tell you that a Bini man cannot be named Ezechima, irrespective of the fact that our mothers told us those stories in the kitchen.
Those were mere fairy tells. We call it "akuko mbekwu", in Igbo language. Mothers usually tell them to hungry children while they wait for food to get done in the kitchen.

Onitsha people on crossing the river Niger had to settle with Obosi Idemili people. And they were Igbo speaking and never Bini speaking. It was until Obosi had a fall out with Onitsha people that they were driven out of Obosi, and they went to their present location, where they met Ozeh people (An Igbo speaking clan), won them in war and drove them inner land to possesses where you call Onitsha today.

Ndi Idemili met Umuezechima as Igbo speaking people. Never were they Bini speakers. This is history as we know it, which Onitsha monarchy having broken free of "Bini fever" are now affirming today.

gregyboy:



Ezechima migrated from the anioma part of delta state with the knowledge of an already benin established royalty from his clan in anioma areas of Delta state were he migrated from, when he settled at onitsha he simply replicated the royal stool back home to his new found town

That's why his name is igbo, instead of edo, Ezechima definitely had edo and igbo blood in him

samuk:


I haven't read any book written by the Obi of Onitsha contradicting Zik's and Obi of issele-uku's position on the Benin origin of Ezechima. I rather go with the history as told by the illustrious descendants of Ezechima. The earliest eyewitness historical accounts of Asaba written in 1875 said the Asaba people migrated from Benin and were later amalgamated with the Igbos. If you have any earlier eyewitness historical account of Asaba that says something else, you can share it for all to read.

If Asaba was a Benin town as late as 1875, there is no way Ezechima and his people who crossed into Onitsha in the 1700s, 100 years earlier according to Zik would have spoken Igbo or a variant of the language that latter became known as Igbo, because there is no evidence that the word Igbo existed in the 1700s.

Ofunwa111:




Can i see the 1930 article of zik,


If it contradict with he said later, then we will have to go with the earliest record














PS: Why do you people keep on bringing up Zik's autobiography written in the 1970s, but when I bring up a historical essay that the same Zik wrote earlier in the 1930s which appears to contradict what he wrote in the '70s, you people keep mute or ignore. I thought you were a great proponent of the theory that earlier documents are always more authentic than later ones?

samuk:


I haven't read any book written by the Obi of Onitsha contradicting Zik's and Obi of issele-uku's position on the Benin origin of Ezechima. I rather go with the history as told by the illustrious descendants of Ezechima. The earliest eyewitness historical accounts of Asaba written in 1875 said the Asaba people migrated from Benin and were later amalgamated with the Igbos. If you have any earlier eyewitness historical account of Asaba that says something else, you can share it for all to read.

If Asaba was a Benin town as late as 1875, there is no way Ezechima and his people who crossed into Onitsha in the 1700s, 100 years earlier according to Zik would have spoken Igbo or a variant of the language that latter became known as Igbo, because there is no evidence that the word Igbo existed in the 1700s.

gregyboy:



Ezechima migrated from the anioma part of delta state with the knowledge of an already benin established royalty from his clan in anioma areas of Delta state were he migrated from, when he settled at onitsha he simply replicated the royal stool back home to his new found town

That's why his name is igbo, instead of edo, Ezechima definitely had edo and igbo blood in him

Ofunwa111:
















PS: Why do you people keep on bringing up Zik's autobiography written in the 1970s, but when I bring up a historical essay that the same Zik wrote earlier in the 1930s which appears to contradict what he wrote in the '70s, you people keep mute or ignore. I thought you were a great proponent of the theory that earlier documents are always more authentic than later ones?

"The only worthwhile stand we can make as a nation is to assert our right to self-determination, as a unit of a prospective Federal Commonwealth of Nigeria and the Cameroons, where our rights will be respected and safeguarded. Roughly speaking, there are twenty main dialectal regions in the Ibo nation, which can be conveniently departmentalized as Provinces of an Ibo State, to wit: Mbamili in the northwest, Aniocha in the west, Anidinma and Ukwuani in the southeast, Nsukka and Udi in the north, Awgu, Awka and Onitsha in the centre, Ogbaru in the south, Abakaliki and Afikpo in the northwest, Okigwi, Orlu, Owerri and Mbaise in the east, Ngwa, Bende, Abiriba Ohafia and Etche in the southwest. These Provinces can have their territorial boundaries delimited, they can select their capitals, and then can conveniently develop their resources both for their common benefit and for those of the other nationalities who make up this great country called Nigeria .


The keynote in this address is self-determination for the Ibo. Let us establish an Ibo State, based on linguistic and ethnic factors, enabling us to take our place side by side with the other linguistic and ethnic groups which make up Nigeria and the Cameroons. With the Hausa, Fulani, Kanuri, Yoruba, Ibibio (Iboku), Angus (Bi-Rom), Tiv, Ijaw, Edo, Urhobo, ltsekiri, Nupe, Igalla, Ogaja, Gwari, Duala, Bali and other nationalities asserting their right to self-determination each as separate as the fingers, but united with others as a part of the same hand, we can reclaim Nigeria and the Cameroons from this degradation which it has pleased the forces of European imperialism to impose upon us. Therefore, our meeting today is of momentous importance in the history of the Ibo, in that opportunity has been presented to us to heed the call of a despoiled race, to answer the summons to redeem a ravished continent, to rally forces to the defence of a humiliated country, and to arouse national consciousness in a demoralized but dynamic nation".
https://www.blackpast.org/global-african-history/1949-nnamdi-azikiwe-address-ibo-people/

pazienza:


There is no Edo blood in Ezechima. No Edo blood goes by Igbo names.
Unless you are saying Edos were Igbo speaking years ago.

gregyboy:



Ezechima came from the edo royalty anioma clan of Delta state what do you expect

pazienza:


No history ever said Onitsha were Bini people, Zik was not a historian and all his life, he lived as an Igbo. Migrating from Bini doesn't translate to being Bini.

Asaba trace her origin to Nteje in Anambra state.
Asaba founder is Nnebisi, an Igbo man. If I ask you to pronounce the name now, with your Edo tongue, you would probably say "Inebisi" ,yet you want to claim Nnebisi because you suffer from minority complex, you recruiting Igbos to swell your minority number.

pazienza:
But wait o! What does it benefit an Edo man to claim kinship with an Nkechi, Nneka, Ndidi in Anioma when he can't even pronounce those names?
Ask him to pronounce it and he says Ikechi, Ineka, Ididi.

Are you lots not embarrassed?

samuk:


Zik's grandmother claimed Ezechime was of Benin royal blood, no one can be more Benin than that.

Your Nnebisi founder of Asaba is an Igbo revisionist story. The earliest eyewitness history of Asaba is dated 1875, Asaba was still a Benin town with the people still using phrases from the Benin language, Igbo came in later. When was your Nnebisi story concocted? I heard this your Nnebisi story from that Igala wannabe Anioma guy before but he couldn't backed it up with written historical evidence earlier that my 1875 evidence. I challenge you to also provide your evidence to back your claim.

samuk:


The fact that someone goes by the name Good luck Jonathan doesn't makes him an English man. Not all ngozi are Igbo by ancestry.

I should ask you the same question. What was it that Zik intended to benefit by forging his ancestral heritage at retirement and old age? It make political sense to have gravitated more towards Igbo for their population when he was still politically active and tell his true history at retirement when there was nothing to gain or lose. You could say he used the Igbo population to succeed and feathered his political nest . He basically eat his cake and had it.

What you claimed Zik said in 1949 was political statement, what he wrote in 1970 was historical account, they are different.