Nezzjnr:

A surveyor that I came across last week told me had to run away from Crypt0 currency few years ago

Reason is because he hardly see gains.. He went on telling me that majority are actually using it for Fraudulent means

If he tried trading crypt0 and lost, that's not new. People lose whrn they trade any asset wrongly.

Same question I've been asking... how exactly is it fraudulent?

Is it that folks are not critical thinkers? Everyone keeps saying same thing and its obviously because they do not understand it.

This was from CBN few years ago

Teach us, illustrate it. Nah, it is so complex...lol

Nezzjnr:

The one I'm yet to understand is how people think they can make money from Forex easily

They make money, but it is not sustainable.

When you are into high risk high returns venture, the best bet is to diversify the returns to stable cash flow generating assets

ojesymsym:


One guy said 10billion was traded in crypto yesterday and I am wondering, I thought they said Nigerians don't have money? Too many paradox

Try and understand this, that 10 billion was traded does not mean exactly 10 billion Naira changed hands. Trader A has 1 million Naira. He buys and resells BTC with his 1 million Naira for like 6 times a day for a total profit of 50k at the end of the day. For the exchange, that's 6.05 million Naira(worth of BTC) volume traded in total but in reality, and for Trader A, it's just his 1 million Naira that is traded six different times!

Crypto and Forex on their own are not fraudulent, but people seem to abused Forex investment due to greed and crypto because of its untraceable nature.
But CBN did not remove them from the banking system because of fraud I believe. It was purely from monetary policy reasons

emmanuelewumi:


They make money, but it is not sustainable.

When you are into high risk high returns venture, the best bet is to diversify the returns to stable cash flow generating assets

Oh my bad.

kevoh:

Try and understand this, that 10 billion was traded does not mean exactly 10 billion Naira changed hands. Trader A has 1 million naira. He buys and resells btc with his 1 million naira for like 6 times a day for a total profit of 50k at the end of the day. For the exchange, that's 6.05 million naira volume traded in total but in reality, and for Trader A, it's just his 1 million Naira that is traded six different times!

ojesymsym:
Crypto and Forex on their own are not fraudulent, but people seem to abused Forex investment due to greed and crypto because of its untraceable nature.
But CBN did not remove them from the banking system because of fraud I believe. It was purely from monetary policy reasons

Read today's Thisday newspaper. Action was taken based on report from FBI and European Central Bank

jedisco:


If he tried trading crypt0 and lost, that's not new. People lose whrn they trade any asset wrongly.

Same question I've been asking... how exactly is it fraudulent?

Is it that folks are not critical thinkers? Everyone keeps saying same thing and its obviously because they do not understand it.

You are really trying to explain how crypto works.
Unfortunately, we have too many people around who have a rigid view of crypto as fraudulent.
No matter what you say to those people they will never understand.
Why those who don't have a single unit of crypto are here analysing stufff, guys are still making money even on a Sunday.
More than 5 billion have already exchanged hands today on binance trading ngn.

Uniquisite:


I am not receiving money from abroad

I claim to be online business hustler, i have 100k, please illustrate how to make million of naira from 100k as a supposely jobless person

No-one can tell us that majority of the volume of bitc0in is sent from relative abroad

You asked a good question and I'd answer it in a way that a 6year old would understand.
I don't know what you invest in or your understanding of markets, but I'd attach 3 pictures

1. The Nigerian stock exchange All time index

2. Nasdaq all time index

3. Bitcoin all time price chart

Look at the last picture again and ask me again how to make money from that asset. The answer is simple: buy low, sell high.

Obviously given that it's an all-time chart, it's difficult to notice major dips.
As easy as that is, 95% of humans find it difficult doing that as it goes against basic human nature.

March last year, bitc0in unit price was 4kusd. Today its 40k usd. And I'd add that as ridiculous as it sounds, 30k usd MAY be the lowest price we'd ever see bitc0in get to again. I want you to hold me on this.

Uniquisite:
Teach us, illustrate it. Nah, it is so complex...lol

When you ask a question, allow it to be answered.

Go through my posts and you'd see that I'm a highly cerebral person. I don't say this to be proud, I say it as a statement of fact. So when you ask, allow it to be answered moreso when it's on a subject that has confused you over the years.

Nezzjnr:

A surveyor that I came across last week told me had to run away from Crypto currency few years ago

Reason is because he hardly see gains. He went on telling me that majority are actually using it for Fraudulent means

Nigerians often bad mouth what they don't understand. He will never make any gain and keep calling those who make money from it that they are into fraud. Crypto is a highly speculative market that can make or mar you. You also need lots of patience to thrive in it. Let me cite an example, BNB is Binance coin that was sold at $0.10 when it first came out in 2017. If you had bought 500 pieces of BNB at a measly $50 (about 16k Naira), with the current price of 1 BNB in 2021 which is about $70, you will have $35000 (over 14 million Naira) sitting in your account This is the part where those who don't understand how a high speculative market can make people rich ( or poor) will call you fraudulent.

You can't just jump into it because you heard bitcoin is rising, you then rush to buy it at all-time high, expecting some massive gains. Those who bought at 10 cents and have been waiting patiently for years are not fools! You come in to buy same coin at its all-time high and expect to make massive gains like the man who has been waiting patiently since 2017

.

pluto09:



You are really trying to explain how crypto works.
Unfortunately, we have too many people around who have a rigid view of crypto as fraudulent.
No matter what you say to those people they will never understand.
Why those who don't have a single unit of crypto are here analysing stufff, guys are still making money even on a Sunday.
More than 5 billion have already exchanged hands today on binance trading ngn.

Usually I leave such comments alone cos in my field of work, they're are arguments that are now worth it.
Those vast in crypt0 know this ban wouldn't affect nothing. Those who panic sold yesterday are asking on the crypt0 thread how to deposit again...

Good enough, seems Se.un has allowed conversations on crypt0 and an investment thread on it. Most of my discussions on it are done there.

I've made over 10 million in profits trading crypt0 just since this current run, most of it has been put to good use. Obviously, just like any market, some folks lose money too mainly cos of greed but from the picture I posted, if you lose money trading bitc0in longterm, you have to ask yourself certain questions.

I'm someone who does my research. I once saw crypt0 as ponzi. I did my reading on it and today I have no regrets.

For all their huffing and puffing, it's interesting how no one has been able to say how exactly it's fraudulent.
The average human is a herd that just regurgitates what they're told

kevoh:

Nigerians often bad mouth what they don't understand. He will never make any gain and keep calling those who make money from it that they are into fraud. Crypt0 is a highly speculative market that can make or mar you. You also need lots of patience to thrive in it. Let me cite an example, BNB is Binance coin that was sold at $0.10 when it first came out in 2017. If you had bought 500 pieces of BNB at a measly $50 (about 16k Naira), with the current price of 1 BNB in 2021 which is about $70, you will have $35000 (over 14 million Naira) sitting in your account This is the part where those who don't understand how a high speculative market can make people rich ( or poor) will call you fraudulent.

You can't just jump into it because you heard bitcoin is rising, you then rush to buy it at all-time high, expecting some massive gains. Those who bought at 10 cents and have been waiting patiently for years are not fools! You come in to buy same coin at its all-time high and expect to make massive gains like the man who has been waiting patiently since 2017

I disagree on it being highly speculative per se.

If you limit your trades to bitc0in which is almost guaranteed to rise over time, I don't see how one would lose. It's usually ignorant or greedy folks that lose trading bitc0in. Look at the bitc0in chart snd tell me how trading it will mar someone if they simply bought low and held

Obviously folks wouldn't do that. They run into different coyns expecting to x10 their portfolio overnight and are burned

No one who has a fair knowledge of crypto can say it is fraudulent, at least even in the post you quoted, I still did not say that.

jedisco:


You guys keep saying same thing.
Just that the amount is large does not mean it is fraudulent.

How exactly is it fraudulent? That's the question I'm asking

jedisco:


I disagree on it being highly speculative per se.

If you limit your trades to bitc0in which is almost guaranteed to rise over time, I don't see how one would lose. It's usually ignorant or greedy folks that lose trading bitc0in. Look at the bitc0in chart snd tell me how trading it will mar someone if they simply bought low and held

Obviously, folks wouldn't do that. They run into different coins expecting to x10 their portfolio overnight and are burned

I'm not talking bitcoin alone but the whole cryptomarket. Even almighty bitcoin sometimes does not respect the charts. Everyone loses a trade at some point. That's why we have all sorts of stop-loss orders for risk and financial management.

The crypto sphere is massive and you can choose to limit yourself to spot trading bitcoin while some hunt crypto gems, some trade altcoins, and others trade futures or do all. There's no harm as long as we all make some profit.

A lot of people made money from free airdropped 400 UNI (currently trading at $18) just for transacting on uniswap, they probably must have missed that if they only traded bitcoin. And I'm sure, their neighbour who doesn't do crypto will be asking how his neighbour made $7200 (400 x $18) , it just must be fraud. Not knowing that it was received free

What really gets on my nerves with this CBN decision is the propensity for African countries to keep making wrong decisions.
Even if some folks were using it for fraudulent means, stopping or placing a ban on it wouldn't help in any way. Internet fraudsters had existed in Nigeria before the first bitc0in was mined. Politicians have been ripping our treasury off even before crypt0 came into existence.

Let's compare what the CBN did to what Western countries have done with crypt0.

1. They mandate crypt0 exchanges to keep very clear KYI data on all their customers so as to be able to identify transactions.

2. People are mandated to pay tax on profits you make on trading. You can submit your trading details. Eitherway, some exchanges will submit all details of those who traded significant volumes to the tax office to peruse. I have attached the guidance from U.S and UK tax agencies
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/virtual-currencies
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets/cryptoassets-for-individuals

3. Certain banks in the West allow people to buy crypt0 from their banking app with the click of a finger. Paypal recently started allowin their U.S customers buy crypt0 in app.

4. Some countries mandate users to keep details of where they withdraw crypt0 to.

Now these same countries ask our CBN to ban crypt0 and they follow? Would the U.S or U.K cut such huge amount of cash inflow from any country?.
If the FBI is worried about fraud through crypt0, then they should ban it in the US.
But then, U.S companies have slowly started buying up bitc0in in large amounts. Today, China controls the mining and the West the exchanges, tomorrow when Africans are left out, we'd say bitc0in and crypt0 was created to make africans poor. SMH

ojesymsym:
No one who has a fair knowledge of crypto can say it is fraudulent, at least even in the post you quoted, I still did not say that.

Then what was your point?

That fraudulent folks have used a system does not mean it should be banned more so when they in their minority. Every system has been abused at one point or the other

kevoh:

I'm not talking bitcoin alone but the whole crypt0market. Even almighty bitcoin sometimes does not respect the charts. Everyone loses a trade at some point. That's why we have all sorts of stop-loss orders for risk and financial management.

The crypto sphere is massive and you can choose to limit yourself to spot trading bitcoin while some hunt crypt0 gems, some trade altcoins, and others trade futures or do all. There's no harm as long as we all make some profit.

A lot of people made money from free airdropped 400 UNI (currently trading at $18) just for transacting on uniswap, they probably must have missed that if they only traded bitc0in. And I'm sure, their neighbour who doesn't do crypt0 will be asking how his neighbour made $7200 (400 x $18) , it just must be fraud. Not knowing that it was received free

Fact!

The reason I chose to limit discussions here to bitc0in is that most folks are struggling to wrap their heads around it talk more of alt coyns

The CBN can argue that they did not ban crypto and in all fairness, they do not have the capacity to ban it. They seem to have only said that the banks and other financial systems under their control should not allow themselves to be used as facilitators.

jedisco:


Then what was your point?

That fraudulent folks have ised a system does not mean[b] it should be banned[/b] more so when they in their minority. Every system has been abused at one point or the other

ojesymsym:
The CBN can argue that they did not ban crypt0 and in all fairness, they do not have the capacity to ban it. They seem to have only said that the banks and other financial systems under their control should not allow themselves to be used as facilitators.

Anyone who knows crypt0 knows it's not a sensible move and they can't ban it. They can't stop banks being facilitators cos p2p will still continue with little or no records sef.

What they simply did was make a straightforward process more complex.

In 2017, they put out a circular limiting banks pending more regulatory oversight. Fair enough, it was new then.

4 years later, they've been unable to pull up regulatory oversight and are limiting banks from transacting with exchanges. These exchanges provide such huge volumes of inflow.. What sensible country will do that for another?

jedisco:


Let's compare what the CBN did to what Western countries have done with crypt0.

1. They mandate exchanges to keep very clear KYI data on all their customers so as to be able to identify transactions.

Funny thing is most exchanges already do that even the ones that are not as big as Binance.

jedisco:


2. People are mandated to pay tax on profits you make on trading. You can submit your trading details. Eitherway, some exchanges will submit all details of those who traded significant volumes to the tax office to peruse. I have attached the guidance from U.S and UK tax agencies
https://www.irs.gov/businesses/small-businesses-self-employed/virtual-currencies
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/tax-on-cryptoassets/cryptoassets-for-individuals

This was what I even feared they would do. Tax all profits made on trades. This would have added some more cash into the FG vaults instead of these loans they are borrowing up and down and driving the country into more debts.

Jedisco, it is okay. Stop trying to make people understand. I think you have said all that would make anyone interested to do more research.

I also used to think crypto was a scam, until recently. Yes, it is an evolving space. The government will eventually come around especially as the world is becoming more accepting.

Money laundering and fraud happens even in normal banking systems, so that reason is for sensational purposes I guess. Maybe the ban was more monetary policy related.

All of us go dey alright finally with our different modes of investing.

kevoh:

Nigerians often bad mouth what they don't understand. He will never make any gain and keep calling those who make money from it that they are into fraud. Crypto is a highly speculative market that can make or mar you. You also need lots of patience to thrive in it. Let me cite an example, BNB is Binance coin that was sold at $0.10 when it first came out in 2017. If you had bought 500 pieces of BNB at a measly $50 (about 16k Naira), with the current price of 1 BNB in 2021 which is about $70, you will have $35000 (over 14 million Naira) sitting in your account This is the part where those who don't understand how a high speculative market can make people rich ( or poor) will call you fraudulent.

You can't just jump into it because you heard bitcoin is rising, you then rush to buy it at all-time high, expecting some massive gains. Those who bought at 10 cents and have been waiting patiently for years are not fools! You come in to buy same coin at its all-time high and expect to make massive gains like the man who has been waiting patiently since 2017

.
I think I've gotten a better explanation on this

But why do people think BTC can turn one into a millionaire after getting into it

Or is there something some of those ones aren't telling us

kevoh:

Funny thing is most exchanges already do that even the ones that are not as big as Binance.


This was what I even feared they would do. Tax all profits made on trades. This would have added some more cash into the FG vaults instead of these loans they are borrowing up and down and driving the country into more debts.

If you notice exchanges especially binance have been trying to get into the Nigerian market and most would be ready to bend over to fulfill whatever the CBN wants.
There are alot of ways to better handle this. This was obviously the worst method.

What annoys me the most is that it just doesn't make sense.

I live in a western country. I can buy crypt0 from the click of a finger in my banking app same with stocks and metals. Also, when prices fluctuate, i receive a notification. There's a sum you'd have dormant in your account, your bank will ring you up and offer certain investment options. I can still trade crypt0 from Binance into a Nigerian account if I need to just that it would take a lil more time.

Out there people make things easier for their citizens and promote financial inclusion. In Nigeria, the opposite is done.

I can say confidently that for a western country, even if all such transactions are fraudulent, considering the volume of inflow, they would not issue a ban. Look at how difficult is it for them to release Abachas loot that they gladly accepted
It's no wonder why the naira would continue its downward slide.

EarlyCareer:
Jedisco, it is okay. Stop trying to make people understand. I think you have said all that would make anyone interested to do more research.

I also used to think crypt0 was a scam, until recently. Yes, it is an evolving space. The government will eventually come around especially as the world is becoming more accepting.

Money laundering and fraud happens even in normal banking systems, so that reason is for sensational purposes I guess. Maybe the ban was more monetary policy related.

All of us go dey alright finally with our different modes of investing.

My brother, I don tire... It's just that I'm allergic to misinformation.

Even seu.n has come around...so hope dey

Uniquisite:


They're coming for you bro

I ask my balling guy teach me this bitcoin now, he just say i go buy and keep the bitcoin.

I beg if i buy 50k bitcoin, shey i bit buy car and rent apartment with it. And this people are really balling out with it, it is then i realized there is more to the bitcoin they aint saying.

Ignorance

The fact say Oga Emma sef they follow talk say crypto is solely used to scam they funny me.

Very similar to how Warren Buffet missed out on investing in Amazon and Google. That something is new or techy doesn't immediately make it bad. And young investors like us may not necessarily want to stick to traditional methods. If I don't do crypto now, what first-hand knowledge of crypto will I have in 2045?

No matter how you tbills-loyalists try to frame this Meffy's move, it is a very dumb one. Just few months ago SEC came out to recognize crypto as an asset class and now CBN is banning it?

Which way Nigeria? The same useless banks stopping crypto transactions are the same banks that Boko Haram has been using to fund terrorism all these years, what has CBN done about this?

From CBN

Continuation