I have love for catholics but i really dont get 'em.

Are they actually believers do they actually believe in being born again
And why are there many controversy around the catholic church.

Catholic sure believe in born again. As per controverses, what type?

Sure they do!

Eddy Tells:

I have love for catholics but i really don't get 'em.

Are they actually believers do they actually believe in being born again
And why are there many controversy around the catholic church.

Read up a little on Church history. Especially about the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church, the Reformation/Contra-Reformation, the Holy Inquisition and the Crusades. The writings of Saint Augustine, John Chisostomos and Thomas of Aquino are also very enlightning. You will understand the mentality better.

nferyn:

Read up a little on Church history. Especially about the establishment of the Roman Catholic Church, the Reformation/Contra-Reformation, the Holy Inquisition and the Crusades. The writings of Saint Augustine, John Chisostomos and Thomas of Aquino are also very enlightning. You will understand the mentality better.

are you implying that there is mentallity in catholic church?

snowsdream:


are you implying that there is mentallity in catholic church?

Of course there is. But remember that the Catholic Church is very diverse. You'll find different mentalities among the higher an lower clergy, the theologicians, the ordinary believers and the social organisations.
If you want to understand where this diversity comes from, you need to know some of the history

sure the catholic chuch is big but not diverse from the way of God.
And talking about mentality of clergies and all that espanciate please!

Im not a Catholic so i dont know, but i want to know.

oohhh Me too, me too, i really want to know everything.

I do not think catholics believe in being born-again. The catholic church recently have a break out " renewal charismatic catholic church" and "the watchman " this new groups have a worship system close to the pentecostal worshipand alittle to the catholic and they say they are catholics but they believe in being born again and the holy spirit which they say is different from the roman catholic church believe.


Whats up with that Thats the controversy am talking about.

Is it not necessary to define what people mean by "born-again" before saying Catholics are not born again?

Questions for thought:

1. Do you make yourself born again?

2. Is it your own action that makes you born again?

3. Is it God's work to make you born again?

4. What is the process of being born again?

5. What is the minimum thing (the most basic thing) necessary to be born again?


I daresay that most people saying someone or the other (whether Catholic or otherwise) is not born again do not really know the meaning of "born again".

No one is defining being born again because every one knows what it means.
Also, mind you, i asked a question, i didnt make a conclusion, so if you feel you have an answer to the question, go ahead and answer it. cos am just curious thats all. and to answer your own questions,

1.Christ salvation if accepted by you, makes you born again
\
2. Your own confession of it and profession of it, including the christlike living of it makes you born again, walking in love among all brethen -YES

3. God wants everyone to consiously receive his Son Jesuschrist

4. Baptism by water and the holy spirit. Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Personal saviour and cofess him as lord over your live. and determine to live like him. you do it yourself, no one does it on your behalf.

5. Accept and Confess Jesus as Lord. The only way. Letting go of every other worship or believe. Every eviland any form of idolatry.


Everyone is born a christain but believing and obeying and COUSIOUSLY accepting Jesus and His authority is what makes you a believer or a born again. Being baptised by water and the holy spirit.

Now can you answer my question

Eddy Tells:

No one is defining being born again because every one knows what it means.
Also, mind you, i asked a question, i didnt make a conclusion, so if you feel you have an answer to the question, go ahead and answer it. because am just curious thats all. and to answer your own questions,

1.Christ salvation if accepted by you, makes you born again
\
2. Your own confession of it and profession of it, including the christlike living of it makes you born again, walking in love among all brethen -YES

3. God wants everyone to consiously receive his Son Jesuschrist

4. Baptism by water and the holy spirit. Accepting Jesus as your Lord and Personal saviour and cofess him as lord over your live. and determine to live like him. you do it yourself, no one does it on your behalf.

5. Accept and Confess Jesus as Lord. The only way. Letting go of every other worship or believe. Every eviland any form of idolatry.


Everyone is born a christain but believing and obeying and COUSIOUSLY accepting Jesus and His authority is what makes you a believer or a born again. Being baptised by water and the holy spirit.

Now can you answer my question

So you answered your own question: of course catholics are born again. Why do you need to ask?

sure thing nferyn, i used to think they were but there is this Holy Mary factor u know.

Bowing down to the statue of Mary. And wearing a Mary necklace.

Asking Mary to pray for their sins aka praying through Mary to God

Asking Mary to plead with Jesus to talk to God - [really dont get this one]

Praying with bids[rosary] - i thot Jesus said repetitive prayers were wrong

We should give her honour yes but worshipping her........... i dunno men.


Please understand that this is just curiousity.

of course catholics believe in born again, I mean who doesn't? And what's all this critism on catholic and all that? cos is not anyone's duty to jugde as its only God's.
And to answer the question on cotroversies in the Catholiic Church - every single church has its own controversy, even all christians do. So you'd be a hypocrit to criticise catholic church.

The Devil knows that Jesus is Lord. Does that make the devil a christain or a Born again


Gezz! Hope i aint cruzing for a bruzing.

Eddy Tells:

sure thing nferyn, i used to think they were but there is this Holy Mary factor u know.

Bowing down to the statue of Mary. And wearing a Mary necklace.

Asking Mary to pray for their sins aka praying through Mary to God

Asking Mary to plead with Jesus to talk to God - [really don't get this one]

Praying with bids[rosary] - i thot Jesus said repetitive prayers were wrong

We should give her honour yes but worshipping her........... i don't know men.


Please understand that this is just curiousity.

And why should you be the judge of all these things? Why don't you hold on to whatever you believe so that you don't sin.
Actually I thought it was only Catholics and a few other churches that discriminate against others but I was indeed wrong. I think every church discriminates against every other person outside their fold. Who gave you the yardstick to measure "born-again"?

@IAN, AM NOT JUDGINGGGG NO ONE for the nth time

If you know why they pray to Mary and bow to her, just tell me.................... simple

hey man i think i have answers to miya questions....
Catholics dont worship mary,they only honour her as she's the mother of God..
eg..if i wanna get something from you but am not worthy to come to you,i can simply ask ur mom2ask you on miya behalf....
Bowing down to mary is wot wot most catholics do because of the respect giving to her as the mother of God,she's done what no woman on earth can do u know,a virgin chosen by God....wow,i hope i can find a woman like that..

Hmm..This is not an issue to be treated lightly or discussed conclusively here.You were earlier advised to read the church history.Whay dont you do that,and if you still have questions,then post again!Some of your comments or choice of words shows how little you know about The Church-enlighten yourself by reading-lots of info on the internet.Good luck

@adesodgi

Mary was just a vessel used by GOD to bring forth (WORD-incarnate). She isnt the mother of god and GOD is the beginning. GOd has no mother.

hmm, Eddy Tells, as per interceeding through Mary, it's only common sense. it's easier for me to get stuff from you if i ask your mother to beg on my behalf. likewise, it's a faster way for your requests to be granted if you ask the mother of our lord. an example is even in the gospel, remember the turning of water to wine. Jesus at first wasn't willing to do anything about the situation of the party-organisers. so they went and asked mary to intercede for them and everything was done in a jiffy.

as per Mary being the mother of God, yes she is. She is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God. Heck, even angels rever her. check your bible once again. read the words angel Gabriel said when he first appeared to her.

as per the born again issue, check your bible once again. an individual is born again when he/she is baptised. check it.

adesodgi:

hey man i think i have answers to miya questions....
Catholics don't worship mary,they only honour her as she's the mother of God..
eg..if i want to get something from you but am not worthy to come to you,i can simply ask your mom2ask you on miya behalf....
Bowing down to mary is wot wot most catholics do because of the respect giving to her as the mother of God,she's done what no woman on earth can do u know,a virgin chosen by God.wow,i hope i can find a woman like that..

But I thought Jesus said we should pray through HIS NAME, not his mother's name. As layi rightly said, Mary was just a vessel used by God since she was considered the purest woman on earth. Nowhere was it mentioned in the Bible that Mary should be an intercessor between you and his son. So I really don't get your point saying "if you need something and u are not worthy..." Jesus accepts everyone (including the habitual sinners), so who says you can ever find yourself in a situation where you won't be worthy to pray to him? Why then is there prayer for forgiveness of sins?

layi:

@adesodgi

Mary was just a vessel used by GOD to bring forth (WORD-incarnate). She isnt the mother of god and GOD is the beginning. GOd has no mother.

hey man i dont think soj mearnt GOD,cos u know there are three Gods in one GOD,God the father,God the son and God the holy spirit.I believe he mearnt God the son...

goodguy:

But I thought Jesus said we should pray through HIS NAME, not his mother's name. As layi rightly said, Mary was just a vessel used by God since she was considered the purest woman on earth. Nowhere was it mentioned in the Bible that Mary should be an intercessor between you and his son. So I really don't get your point saying "if you need something and u are not worthy..." Jesus accepts everyone (including the habitual sinners), so who says you can ever find yourself in a situation where you won't be worthy to pray to him? Why then is there prayer for forgiveness of sins?

hey gdguy i think codec has already answered ur question...^

c0dec:

hmm, Eddy Tells, as per interceeding through Mary, it's only common sense. it's easier for me to get stuff from you if i ask your mother to beg on my behalf. likewise, it's a faster way for your requests to be granted if you ask the mother of our lord. an example is even in the gospel, remember the turning of water to wine. Jesus at first wasn't willing to do anything about the situation of the party-organisers. so they went and asked mary to intercede for them and everything was done in a jiffy.

as per Mary being the mother of God, yes she is. She is the mother of Jesus and Jesus is God. Heck, even angels reverr her. check your bible once again. reads the words angel Gabriel said when he first appeared to her.

as per the born again issue, check your bible once again. an individual is born again when he/she is baptised. check it.

hey codec u be tha bomb man....

c0dec:

hmm, Eddy Tells, as per interceeding through Mary, it's only common sense. it's easier for me to get stuff from you if i ask your mother to beg on my behalf. likewise, it's a faster way for your requests to be granted if you ask the mother of our lord. an example is even in the gospel, remember the turning of water to wine. Jesus at first wasn't willing to do anything about the situation of the party-organisers. so they went and asked mary to intercede for them and everything was done in a jiffy.

Who said Jesus wasn't willing? Who told you the party organizers went to ask Mary to intercede for them? Read your Bible well. John 2: 3 - 4 says, "And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. (no one asked her to intercede on their behalf). Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (That doesn't mean he wasn't willing, it just wasn't his time as HE clearly stated).

I like this argument. Some ppl are really making some sense like me, though I havent spoken bout it here yet, but I do everyday.

I want to first point things out from what I have read. Lets see...

layi:

@adesodgi

Mary was just a vessel used by GOD to bring forth (WORD-incarnate). She isnt the mother of god and GOD is the beginning. GOd has no mother.

I like this one, @adesogi You are calling a woman a vessel Nevertheless the Catholic Church believes in the HOLY TRINITY, God the Father, God the Son and God the HOly Spirit. Wether we like it or not Mary the Blessed was the mother of God the Son on earth.

With the issue of being Born Again, I dont see how bowing down to the Mother of God as she is known for have anything to do with being born again? Afterall there are people in this Naija that jump from church to church because the pastor speaks more Americano in the next, that is bowing down in the non-literal sense. Are we goign to church for the Pastor or for God? Every member of the congregation catches taxi, okada or molue tot he church and the pastor closes and drives out in his latest Jepp or Mercedes Benz Or do you term being Born Again as some people term it not watching TVs, not listening to music because all these are handworks of the devil We have over 10000 churches and so much dedicated Born Again Christians and yet we remain within the top 10 most corrupt country in the world

End of Part 1

goodguy:

Who said Jesus wasn't willing? Who told you the party organizers went to ask Mary to intercede for them? Read your Bible well. John 2: 3 - 4 says, "And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. (no one asked her to intercede on their behalf). Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (That doesn't mean he wasn't willing, it just wasn't his time as HE clearly stated).

duh'! his time had not yet come...means he wasn't ready to do anything yet.

goodguy:

Who said Jesus wasn't willing? Who told you the party organizers went to ask Mary to intercede for them? Read your Bible well. John 2: 3 - 4 says, "And when they wanted wine, the mother of Jesus saith unto him, They have no wine. (no one asked her to intercede on their behalf). Jesus saith unto her, Woman, what have I to do with thee? mine hour is not yet come. (That doesn't mean he wasn't willing, it just wasn't his time as HE clearly stated).

sorry o,and did the bible specify the time difference between when jesus said that and when he performed the miracle?He said my time hasn't come yet,yet he did it just because of his mother's intervention..and if you can remember mary said "do just wot he tells u" If they hadn't asked her she wouldn't have bulged,she knows everything and she's guiding them in the right path to follow by giving them a clue...

my man, esconedge tell them!

Good.. he wasn't ready to do anything yet because it wasn't his time to do anything. They never 'asked' mary as you claim. The Bible says,"when they wanted wine..." not "when they 'asked' mary..."
It was Mary herself that saw that these people were in need of wine. Jesus equally knew as well (since He is all-knowing). But he said it wasn't his hour yet. Stop thinking that it was due to what his mother said that made him perform the miracle. As you said, the Bible didn't specify the time difference between when Jesus said that and when he performed the miracle. Which means he performed the miracle at the appointed hour, not when his mother asked him to.  Remember, no one knew whether Jesus was a messiah or not as at that time, since he had not performed a single miracle before then. So why then would they have asked Mary to tell her son to perform a miracle for them since they didn't even know who her son was.

medube:

[SNIP]
II like this one, @adesogi You are calling a woman a vessel Nevertheless the Catholic Church believes in the HOLY TRINITY, God the Father, God the Son and God the HOly Spirit. Wether we like it or not Mary the Blessed was the mother of God the Son on earth.
[SNIP]

This issue about the Holy Trinity is actually quite funny. If you go back to earlier sources, prior to the establishment of the Catholic Church, especially in the Gnostic Gospels, the trinity is more than the union of father, son and holy spirit. It is the unity of the masculine (father), feminine (spirit) and intermediary (son). The original Hebrew term for ghost was ruah, which is definitely feminine. During the council of Nicea, ruah [/i]was translated into the Greek [i]pneuma, which is gender neutral.
Islam, which had access to Original Christian text that were either burned or lost by the Catholic Church made a correct interpretation of the Trinity as a unity of God-Jesus-Mary.

Please continue your discussion on the sex of angels... oops... i meant to say whether or not Catholics are born again