Auntyada89:
I hope something tangible comes out of the meeting.

Suga ban the Sultan and the Emir of DAURA to FUTA DJALON AND NIGER REPUBLIC.

capitalzero:
Who made sultan number 1 monarch in Nigeria?

He is an Emperor of The Caliphate in SOKOTO. This is 22nd Century. The HAUSAS want their TRADITIONS back. The Fulanis must go back to FUTA DJALON.

orisa37:




Both are CONFLICTS WE MUST RESOLVE BY INDIVIDUALISM AND EFFECTIVE COMMUNICATION, DELIBERATIONS AND RESOLUTIONS.

Exactly, you spoke my mind.

MysteryShopper:
Obi of Onitsha representing the SOUTHEAST

Ooni of Ife representing the SOUTHWEST

Sultan of Sokoto representing the NORTH

These are the 3 most influential and powerful stools in Nigeria

ONITSHA IS OBASANJO'S STOOL .

BUHARI IS STILL PLAYING GAME.

TAO11:
The invincible fact which you now seem to have covertly admitted is that:

The Sokoto caliphate, in comparison to Ife, is a baby monarchy conceived by Sheikh Uthman Dan Fodio 200 odd-years ago.

In sum then, the stool of the Ooni of Ife is more antique and thus more prestigious in comparison to the stool of the Sultan of Sokoto.

In fact, the present Sultan of Sokoto (Amir Muhammad S. Abubakar) appears to have publicly admitted this obvious fact sometimes recently.

A corroboration of the foregoing may be seen in a video in which the present Ooni citied the Sultan’s own words to this very effect. Yes, the Sultan was present there.

In sum then, @Rugaria ‘s remark (on the Sultan’s lowly stool in comparison to the Ooni’s stool) is in fact 100% accurate.

————————
Moving on now to your calculated distractions:

Firstly, Kanem-Bornu has nothing to do with Hausa or Fulani or Hausa-Fulani groups.

Kanem-Bornu is a ‘merged-polity’ of two independent groups — none of which relates to your people.

Moreover, Kanem kingdom or Bornu kingdom (or Kane-Bornu kingdom) is actually no where to be found today.

On the other hand, many ancient southern kingdoms (e.g. the sacred kingdom of IFE of over a millennium) continues to be in existence till date.

In sum then: Despite your attempt at distraction, you seem to have no Hausa-Fulani match comparable to what is obtainable in southern Nigerian.

To nip this crap in the bud real quick:

The indigenous foundation and ownership of Ilorin has nothing to do with the legend of Bayajida.

Ilorin is an indigenous Oyo town founded, within the Oyo country, by Laderin who also was its first Baale.

Its present-day foreign connection is with a religion, namely: Islam — a religion which is also foreign to the Hausas and the Fulanis.

Its present-day Islamic connection was, however, via Sokoto which in turn delegated Islamic leaders for it.

This has continued till date as long as the indigenous people have continued to embrace the Islamic-model leadership.

In sum then, Ilorin’s origin or foundation has nothing to do with Bayajida.

What you seem to be confused about is Ilorin’s first delegated Islamic leader, viz. Amir Abdussalami.

He is obviously of Hausa-Fulani origin and hence has connection with the Bayajida story.

What!? Naked?? illiterates?? I wonder what else you do with your brain if you’re dead-scared to reason.

You have provided zero evidence to demonstrate (or even suggest) that your people knew anything about clothes even in as recent as 500 years ago.

Whereas, I have provided you with hard redoubtable evidence of the use of clothes in the ancient kingdom of Ife dating to more than 700 years ago.

Yet somehow in your warped logic, my people are the naked ones (despite the contrary evidence) and your people were clothed (despite zero evidence). Wow!

On literacy: Like I have noted before, more than 900 years ago my people were into glass production (and dichroic beads) in IFE. [See: A. Babalola, S. K. McIntoch, L. Dussubieux, & T. Rehren: “Ile-Ife and Igbo Olokun in the History of Gass in West Africa”, Antiquity, June 2017].

At the time (and even prior), my people were working metals to produce some the finest naturalistic bronze sculptures to which nothing is comparable in black Africa.

A European Art historian, Frank Willet, once remarked that the Ife sculptures "would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer” [See: Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.].

These findings and words are not such as may be used to qualify an illiterate group of people. You may please begin to use your brain today.

Do you mind informing me of any notable home-grown Hausa-Fulani feat which may be said to be indicative of literacy or civilization? I’d like to see some evidence.

More respect and more followers in what sense??

Do you mean this in the sense of his superficial leadership of Nigerian Muslims as imposed by the Hausa-Fulani dominated FG? Lol.

I think Supo Ayokunle is more proud of something truly profound for being the leader of all Nigerian Christians. His leadership is the Nigerian Christians’ choice rather than FG imposition.

But if your comment here is in reference to the Sultan’s traditional Sokoto stool (rather than his superficial FG-imposed religious leadership in Nigeria), then consider the following:

The Ooni of Ife is not only IFE’s king, he is also the head of all Yoruba subgroups world-wide — as well as the head of some indigenous non-Yoruba groups of Nigeria and other parts of West Africa.

Cheers!

Taking link between Bornu and Hausa Fulani is is another dishonourable assertion to go away with the main theme. We're talking abt North not Hausa-Fulani, so Bornu is part of us. Again Illorin is bearing Emirate. Islam came to Nigeria through Bornu not Sokoto.
The way US was discovered in 1492 and become leading nation similarly happened to Sokoto empire over Kanem Bornu.
In ancient times all races & tribes have their own innovative ways of doing things as such literacy is different from what u quoted.

Coronabirus:
•••We're talking abt North not Hausa-Fulani, so Bornu is part of us.

Lol! You all play this deceitful game when engaging less informed people, but I won’t let you play such with me.

(1) First of all, kudos to you for setting shame aside and admitting that the indigenous people of Bornu are not Hausas nor Fulanis, nor Hausa-Fulanis.

That must have been a very tough one for you to admit.

(2) You’re now claiming here that the central theme of our exchange has been ‘Northern Nigeria’ rather than the ‘Hausa,’ ‘Fulani,’ or ‘Hausa-Fulani’ kingdoms.

You had to make this face-saving claim in order to attempt a justification of your desperate allusion to Kanem-Bornu.

However, this face-saving claim itself is another huge falsehood which I am set to expose right below:

(I) You seem to have forgotten so quick that you already brought up Bayajida as the unifying progenitor of the kingdoms you’re defending.

And who is Bayajida in the Bayajida legend? He is the progenitor of the original Hausa kingdoms.

It is clear therefore that your argument is about your people and not about the non-Hausa, non-Fulani, and non-Hausa-Fulani peoples of the North.

(II) Even if for the sake of argument one pretends that you never brought up the Bayajida legend, your face-saving claim still wouldn’t fly.

And this is because there is no such thing as a Kanem-Bornu empire (or kingdom) anywhere in the North today.

In contrast, the ancient kingdom of IFE continues to be in existence till date in Southern Nigeria.

Again Illorin is bearing Emirate

Yes, “Emirate” from “Emir” i.e. “Amir” — an Islamic term.

“Emir” is not an Hausa word, neither is it a Fulani word.

This clarification ties again to the point I already made when I wrote (and I quote here again) that:

“Its [Ilorin’s] present-day foreign connection is with a religion, namely: Islam — a religion which is also foreign to the Hausas and the Fulanis.

Its present-day Islamic connection was, however, via Sokoto which in turn delegated Islamic leaders for it.

This has continued till date as long as the indigenous people have continued to embrace the Islamic-model leadership.”

Moreover, the label “Emirate” is no where applied to Ilorin in the constitution of Nigeria. It’s just the a mere everyday term used by most of the people of Ilorin.

Islam came to Nigeria through Bornu not Sokoto. •••

To be very thorough, this statement is actually false.

The statement “Islam came to Nigeria through Bornu” is equivalent to claiming that the presence of Islam in Hausaland (and other parts of Nigeria) was via Bornu.

The reality, instead, is that Hausaland contacted Islam independently, via the Mali Empire — even though Bornu had contacted Islam earlier from North-Africa, Middle-East.

For emphasis once more, Ilorin did not always have the Islamic-style leadership. Its leadership style used to be purely indigenous and true to its Yoruba foundations.

And the Islamic leadership which later began in Ilorin around the year 1827 was modeled after the Sokoto prototype, not Bornu.

NB: This is not to say that Yorubaland first contacted Islam through Sokoto. No! Islam has being in parts of Yorubaland (neither via Hausa-Fulani nor via Bornu) centuries before the 1800s.

In ancient times all races & tribes have their own innovative ways of doing things as such literacy is different from what u quoted.

First of all, the word “literacy” is defined by The Merriam-Webster Dictionary as “the quality or state of being literate”.

And the same dictionary defines the word “literate” in two broad alternative ways, viz.

(I): “having knowledge or competence”.

(II): “able to read and write”.

With regards to the definition (I), my people of old were 100% literate given the advanced level of technical, scientific, and artistic competence required for their productions.

For a gentle reminder on this, refer back to my earlier comment where I wrote (and I quote here again) that:

“On literacy: Like I have noted before, more than 900 years ago my people were into glass production (and dichroic beads) in IFE. [See: A. Babalola, S. K. McIntoch, L. Dussubieux, & T. Rehren: “Ile-Ife and Igbo Olokun in the History of Glass in West Africa,” Antiquity, June 2017.]

At the time (and even prior), my people were also working metals to produce some the finest naturalistic bronze sculptures to which nothing is comparable in black Africa.

A European Art historian, Frank Willet, once remarked that the Ife sculptures "would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”. [See: Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.].

These findings and words are not such as may be used to qualify an illiterate group of people. You may please begin to use your brain today.”.

Moreover, I followed all these up with a question to you where I asked (and I quote here again) that:

“Do you mind informing me of any notable home-grown Hausa-Fulani feat which may be said to be indicative of literacy or civilization? I’d like to see some evidence.”

I am still waiting, till this very moment, for your answer to this clear and direct question.

Please note that such feat must not only be indigenous to your people, but must also be (like the Yorubas’s) able to take a worthy stand beside the bests of its kind from other parts of the world.

Furthermore, even if the definition (II) (and that alone) is what you wish to insist on (despite both being equally valid), my people of old were also there.

My people of old had their own logographic scripts — centuries before we adopted foreign scripts like Ajami, and then the present-day Latin scripts.

Some evidence of the existence of ancient indigenous logographic scripts by the Yorubas have survived till date in the form of archaeological finds and other types have survived in the practice of Ifa divination, among other types.

Regarding the archaeological evidence, the Oranmiyan obelisk which has survived several centuries till date in IFE is seen to depict some of these logographic scripts.

Refer to the embedded image below, as highlighted.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13256943_a5d6e9887a0848b297a87430c98bfe82_jpeg_jpegf2f43dcc0a6c9a338883aa16b36eae9a

In fact, there are efforts in parts of Yorubaland today (in the République du Bénin) to revive this indigenous writing system as seen in the embedded video below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPqFyeK4HJQ

In the light of this, do you mind informing me of any ancient indigenous writing system of the Hausa-Fulanis just as we have seen the Yorubas’s?

Cheers!

Cc: Ideadoctor, SaintBeehot, LegendHero, DenreleDave, ABULARdotCOM, Balogunodua, Rugaria

Tao11, that was awesome. Thank you.

gomojam:
Tao11, that was awesome. Thank you.

You’re welcome brother.

orisa37:




He is an Emperor of The Caliphate in SOKOTO. This is 22nd Century. The HAUSAS want their TRADITIONS back. The Fulanis must go back to FUTA DJALON.

Let us talk about ilorin. Yorubas in ilorin are not even comfortable in the palace. Imagine a minority tribe ruling over a majority tribe.

TAO11:
Lol! You all play this deceitful game when engaging less informed people, but I won’t let you play such with me.

(1) First of all, kudos to you for setting shame aside and admitting that the indigenous people of Bornu are not Hausas nor Fulanis, nor Hausa-Fulanis.

That must have been a very tough one for you to admit.

(2) You’re now claiming here that the central theme of our exchange has been ‘Northern Nigeria’ rather than the ‘Hausa,’ ‘Fulani,’ or ‘Hausa-Fulani’ kingdoms.

You had to make this face-saving claim in order to attempt a justification of your desperate allusion to Kanem-Bornu.

However, this face-saving claim itself is another huge falsehood which I am set to expose right below:

(I) You seem to have forgotten so quick that you already brought up Bayajida as the unifying progenitor of the kingdoms you’re defending.

And who is Bayajida in the Bayajida legend? He is the progenitor of the original Hausa kingdoms.

It is clear therefore that your argument is about your people and not about the non-Hausa, non-Fulani, and non-Hausa-Fulani peoples of the North.

(II) Even if for the sake of argument one pretends that you never brought up the Bayajida legend, your face-saving claim still wouldn’t fly.

And this is because there is no such thing as a Kanem-Bornu empire (or kingdom) anywhere in the North today.

In contrast, the ancient kingdom of IFE continues to be in existence till date in Southern Nigeria.

Yes, “Emirate” from “Emir” i.e. “Amir” — an Islamic term.

“Emir” is not an Hausa word, neither is it a Fulani word.

This clarification ties again to the point I already made when I wrote (and I quote here again) that:

“Its [Ilorin’s] present-day foreign connection is with a religion, namely: Islam — a religion which is also foreign to the Hausas and the Fulanis.

Its present-day Islamic connection was, however, via Sokoto which in turn delegated Islamic leaders for it.

This has continued till date as long as the indigenous people have continued to embrace the Islamic-model leadership.”

To be very thorough, this statement is actually false.

The statement “Islam came to Nigeria through Bornu” is equivalent to claiming that the presence of Islam in Hausaland (and other parts of Nigeria) was via Bornu.

The reality, instead, is that Hausaland contacted Islam independently, via the Mali Empire — even though Bornu had contacted Islam earlier from North-Africa, Middle-East.

For emphasis once more, Ilorin did not always have the Islamic-style leadership. Its leadership style used to be purely indigenous and true to its Yoruba foundations.

And the Islamic leadership which later began in Ilorin around the year 1827 was modeled after the Sokoto prototype, not Bornu.

NB: This is not to say that Yorubaland first contacted Islam through Sokoto. No! Islam has being in parts of Yorubaland (neither via Hausa-Fulani nor via Bornu) centuries before the 1800s.

First of all, the word “literacy” is defined by The Merriam-Webster Dictionary as “the quality or state of being literate”.

And the same dictionary defines the word “literate” in two broad alternative ways, viz.

(I): “having knowledge or competence”.

(II): “able to read and write”.

With regards to the definition (I), my people of old were 100% literate given the advanced level of technical, scientific, and artistic competence required for their productions.

For a gentle reminder on this, refer back to my earlier comment where I wrote (and I quote here again) that:

“On literacy: Like I have noted before, more than 900 years ago my people were into glass production (and dichroic beads) in IFE. [See: A. Babalola, S. K. McIntoch, L. Dussubieux, & T. Rehren: “Ile-Ife and Igbo Olokun in the History of Glass in West Africa,” Antiquity, June 2017.]

At the time (and even prior), my people were also working metals to produce some the finest naturalistic bronze sculptures to which nothing is comparable in black Africa.

A European Art historian, Frank Willet, once remarked that the Ife sculptures "would stand comparison with anything which Ancient Egypt, Classical Greece and Rome, or Renaissance Europe had to offer”. [See: Frank Willett, “Ife and Its Archaeology,” The Journal of African History, Vol. 1, No. 2 (1960), p. 239.].

These findings and words are not such as may be used to qualify an illiterate group of people. You may please begin to use your brain today.”.

Moreover, I followed all these up with a question to you where I asked (and I quote here again) that:

“Do you mind informing me of any notable home-grown Hausa-Fulani feat which may be said to be indicative of literacy or civilization? I’d like to see some evidence.”

I am still waiting, till this very moment, for your answer to this clear and direct question.

Please note that such feat must not only be indigenous to your people, but must also be (like the Yorubas’s) able to take a worthy stand beside the bests of its kind from other parts of the world.

Furthermore, even if the definition (II) (and that alone) is what you wish to insist on (despite both being equally valid), my people of old were also there.

My people of old had their own logographic scripts — centuries before we adopted foreign scripts like Ajami, and then the present-day Latin scripts.

Some evidence of the existence of ancient indigenous logographic scripts by the Yorubas have survived till date in the form of archaeological finds and other types have survived in the practice of Ifa divination, among other types.

Regarding the archaeological evidence, the Oranmiyan obelisk which has survived several centuries till date in IFE is seen to depict some of these logographic scripts.

Refer to the embedded image below, as highlighted.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13256943_a5d6e9887a0848b297a87430c98bfe82_jpeg_jpegf2f43dcc0a6c9a338883aa16b36eae9a

In fact, there are efforts in parts of Yorubaland today (in the Republic of Bénin) to revive this indigenous writing system as seen in the embedded video below.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPqFyeK4HJQ

In the light of this, do you mind informing me of any ancient indigenous writing system of the Hausa-Fulanis just as we have seen the Yorubas’s?

Cheers!

Cc: Ideadoctor, SaintBeehot, LegendHero, DenreleDave, ABULARdotCOM, Balogunodua, Rugaria

Tao Tao.

I hail o.

LegendHero:
Tao Tao.
I hail o.

Lol. Thanks! How’s your side my brother?

TAO11:
Lol. Thanks! How’s your side my brother?

I’m doing great. Thanks

To any Yoruba whom is tired of being lied to by his kinsmen. I can answer your questions truthfully and educate you on the true passed of your ancestors. You can't honour the latter if you don't know their true history.
You can't unbound yourself from your slave mentality and bloodline unless you learn the true history of your people and stop hiding behind crooked story tellers whom are selling you a pipe dream.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Oni of IFA is a fake king, he is a natif doctor who was elevated by the British for slaving himself to them. The name Yoruba actually belongs to the alafin of oyo whose Kingdom was also called y.ariba.


To any Yoruba whom is tired of being lied to by his kinsmen. I can answer your questions truthfully and educate you on the true passed of your ancestors. You can't honour the latter if you don't know their true history.
You can't unbound yourself from your slave mentality and bloodline unless you learn the true history of your people and stop hiding behind crooked story tellers whom are selling you a pipe dream.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg

Truthshots:
[s]To any Yoruba whom is tired of being lied to by his kinsmen. I can answer your questions truthfully and educate you on the true passed of your ancestors. You can't honour the latter if you don't know their true history.
You can't unbound yourself from your slave mentality and bloodline unless you learn the true history of your people and stop hiding behind crooked story tellers whom are selling you a pipe dream.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-[/s]

Truthshots:
[s]Oni of IFA is a fake king, he is a natif doctor who was elevated by the British for slaving himself to them. The name Yoruba actually belongs to the alafin of oyo whose Kingdom was also called y.ariba.


To any Yoruba whom is tired of being lied to by his kinsmen. I can answer your questions truthfully and educate you on the true passed of your ancestors. You can't honour the latter if you don't know their true history.
You can't unbound yourself from your slave mentality and bloodline unless you learn the true history of your people and stop hiding behind crooked story tellers whom are selling you a pipe dream.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2hU-ibkPfg[/s]

Your propaganda video as well as your own personal hallucinations have all been debunked on the other thread.

I will do it here again for the sake of completeness. Read below:

(1) Regarding your bitter lies about the trans-Atlantic slave trade, the following piece-by-piece devastating refutation should make you consider suicide again:

(A) Contrary to your ignorance, slaves were not taken from “all across Africa”. Rather, slaves were taken from Central Africa and West Africa — including Edo people raided by Ibadan invaders).

(B) Contrary to your ignorance, the Yoruba people have
been known by the name “Yoruba” in their present home for centuries prior to the commencement of the return of ex-slaves.

We know this because the process of returning ex-slaves back to West Africa didn’t begin until the late-1700s.

Whereas, there are manuscripts from the early-1600s which list Yorubas (by their name “Yoruba” ) among some of the ethnic groups of our region.

This manuscript written by Ahmed Baba in 1615 is attached below; and the name “Yoruba” is shown in red highlight among the other ethnic groups as can be seen in the original and the translation.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934148_5117c6d550154217817d7c66b5fa0fe6_jpeg_jpeg2a73d5172c14cf7a7da91ff200688e3e

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12934147_3336ed29985b499e82c4e140b455b9fa_jpeg_jpeg62ecafabb59c692d4ba471597fdf16bb

This translation was prepared by John Hunwick and Fatima Harrak for The Institute of African Studies Rabat, Morocco

Oh, I should add that we know that this manuscript was written by Ahmad Baba in the year 1615 because he himself penned his date as highlighted (in the attached verso) below:

www.nairaland.com/attachments/13082305_6e49d8d129844a578af9272699e1586a_jpeg_jpeg2d5891d724a6428e2c0f4e6898bd60cc

The highlight here literally shows the wording “(the year) one thousand and twenty four (of the Hijrah)”.

When converted from this Hijri “AH” calendar into our Gregorian “AD” calendar; the year 1024 AH falls into the year 1615 AD

The formula “D = 0.9692*H + 622” proves practically useful for this conversion.

In sum, your falsehood that returned-slaves (from all across Africa) are what became known as Yorubas is nothing but a but-hurt lie from a depressed bald-head.


(C) These ex-slaves who were of West African descent and Central African descent were repatriated directly to Sierra-Leone and Liberia.

Some began a new life there, while some decided to go back to their actual homeland from which they were originally taken.

An important example here is the Bishop Samuel Adjai Crowther who was taken from Oṣoogun in present-day Oyo state.

Nobody was repatriated to south-West Nigeria, bald-head.

A number of Yorubas among the returnees chose to return back to Yorubaland — just as many others did.

(2) The only ethnic-group that I know of who were too weak to fight their way to freedom and be returned to Africa are the Edos.

And I know this is precisely where your bitterness and misery comes from. Your people were subjected fully in the Americas as the natural slaves that they are.

They couldn’t think of returning until about 400 years later when their descendants took it upon themselves to leverage on the science of Genetics as a guide to finding their way back to Benin Kingdom. See embedded video:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxDve0rwQbM

The two attachments below also shows some earlier corroborative confessions made available to Bradbury by the Edos themselves.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12996709_af6378be36104010b036a2f7ab4096cd_jpeg_jpeg07ca8a3f5b191f4126cdcd6bf2f7faf7

www.nairaland.com/attachments/12996710_b28de88ee10a4b7a83b95532f6609396_jpeg_jpegaca1a6203806c9d893c79b42b9a6c76e

Cheers!

The Oni is just a native doctor impersonating kingship.

1) who was the first ooni of ife to copy the word Oba into his title: adesoji aderemi.
He also created a beaded crown as a way to copy the benin crown. (the fake crown in the picture below)

2) there is no such thing as Edo, igbo or yoruba etymology. Anybody using such as argument is either intellectually bankrupt either morally bankrupt, anyways his argument is trash.

3) the yoruba have a habbit of copying other people's cultures:

a) they first copied the word "sir" which is a mark of british nobility: ooni of ife, sir adesoji.
b) after some time they changed that borrowed word for an other borrowed word "Oba" the title of the King of benin: it then became "ooni of ife, oba adesoji"
c) adesoji also imitated the benin crown
d) the current crown worn by the ooni of ife is an imitation of a statue which was found in ife
e) the current dress of the ooni of ife is an imitation of the royal uniform of the king of the ashanti.

4) Benin has a true history, ife has fairytales.
5) benin has architecture, ife has fairytales of rambo/oduduwa dropping from the sky in egypt strait into ife with a golden parachute/chain.
6) Benin actually fought a war against britain, ife once again has fairytales of great warriors
7) Benin city got burnt into ashes, ife didn't yet no architecture, nothing to show in ife.
8 ) at this point it feels like a big insult to even dare pronounce benin and ife in the same sentence in anybody's dream.
indeed, ife remains a village, a make-belief rubbish elevated by the invaders becuase the ooni of ife was a backstabbing traitor to the cause the black race. The ooni of ife served the british instead of fighting the british, coward if you ask me.