buzugee:

biological fact ?? you are truly a comedian. where you personally present when the genetic markers were being analyzed ? or was it a bunch of white people with their own agenda ? fugazy negros like you stay subjugated.

believe it or not, humanity originated in africa. it was a huge land mass called gondwanaland. then due to erosion and attrition, gondwanaland started to crack up and drift into different pieces which then formed the different continents. all the africans then physically changed and adapted to their new environments over tens of thousands of years. a mutation, if you will. those who remained in africa did not mutate because that was the initial starting point. so whomever came back afterwards was already a different person. now dont get me wrong, i will love for the world to subscribe to the fact that we are all africans and all one, but unfortunately the world does not work like that and hence i have to fall in line with the rest of the prejudiced world. and therefore africa is originally black. ya dig ? that make sense enough for ya ?

Negro? . What is a 'Negro' if I might ask? . Is that some label you gave yourself or is that a label some "white" man with 'an agenda" gave you?

Where you not the one just saying that Berbers are descendants of the Berber slave trade

You dont know what you are talking about

People should stop putting emphasis on terms like "black", "white" etc. Modern science has exposed those terms as complete trash

There is no such thing as a "black" African in reality and like I said before and would say for the 100th time, skin colour does NOT indicate if you are connected to Africans at all.

You can have "white" skin and be an indiginous African and you can have dark skin and kinky hair and have no genetic connection to Africans at all

[b]The above is proven scientific fact

Does anybody want to challenge the above?/b][i][/i]

I deal with scientific facts not wishful thinking from write ups of fraudsters

buzugee:

whether you choose to accept the fact or ignore it does not change the fact that it is true
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNE6BAmN4b8&feature=related keep being a victim of an indoctrination perpetrated to malign your humanity. thats your funeral.

Stop listening to trash and accept pure concrete biological fact

All these silly people who start nonsense like Africa is for "black" Africans are verry funny

The term "black" is a meaningless term imposed by foreigners. There is no such thing like a "Black" African biologically

Genetics has a final say on this issue not some phoney fraudsters who dont know what they are talking about



I bet these fraudsters probably dont realize that not only are white skinned Berbers African indigines (as genetics has shown) but also that having dark skin and kinky hair does not mean you have anything whatsoever to do with Africa. I bet even you yourself have no idea. Somebody can have dark skin and kinky hair and not be genetically related to Africans and the white North Africans, despite their skin colour share indiginous African genetic markers

buzugee:

africa is indigenous to black africans. any other race you see in africa today is a result of invasion of slavery. why is that so hard to believe ? http://www.wordiq.com/definition/Africa   

stop buying into western indoctrination of trying to seperate north africa from 'black' africa because they cannot for the life of them fathom how the sphinx and all other huge developments in north africa came about when they were still in the caucus caves acting like savages. read books by african historians like cheik diop and george G M james. stop being a victim of white indoctrination

Dude you are talking trash.

You dont know anything about genetics, humanity or North Africa for that matter

There is no such thing like "black" or "white" in genetics. Learn about what you are talking about before you keep propagating falsehood. There is no such thing like a "black" African genetically or biologically speaking and having "white" skin is not an indication of not being an indigene of the African continent

The primary reason I hate people who propagate lies like these is that it paints a false picture and creates false narratives and does not care about facts. The residents of North Africa have genetic markers that are indigenous to the African continent





Having dark skin and kinky hair does not mean you have anything to do with Africa either

Ochi_Agha:

sage,

Some Berbers did have European slaves. The Barbary Pirates were well known to be the scourge of the Mediterranean

The Barbary Coast, which extends from Morocco through modern Libya, was home to a large slaving industry from about 1500 to 1800. The great slaving capitals were Salé in Morocco, Tunis, Algiers, and Tripoli, and for most of this period, European navies were too weak to put up resistance to these well armed navies from the North African coast.

Even the U.S. Marine anthem talks about going to North Africa and fighting the menace of slavery.  The line "To the shores of Tripoli" refers to the First Barbary War, and specifically the Battle of Derne in 1805. The Americans went to war against the Barbary states, because American merchant ships were being attacked and the people sold into slavery in North Africa.

Many people today dont know that Millions of Europeans were slaves on the African continent and sold in slave house auctions. berbers used to raid European villages from Spain to Ireland and cart away men, women and children as slaves and also sold some into slavery in the Middle East.


But what i dont understand is why somebody would think North Africans are descendants of that slave trade in the middle ages. Thats completely insane

North Africans are indigines of Africa and genetic studies prove that

In reality there is actually no such thing as a "black" man biologically speaking neither is their a "white" man

I reject European attempts to divide this continent into "Sub-Saharan" whatever

"Race" is a complete social construct. the same European who is trying to seperate the "white" Berbers from the rest of Africans is the same person who would have no problems whatsoever telling somebody that is 75% Irish genetically that he is "black but would also call a Berber, who is genetically African "white"

Pls let us keep Egypt out of this debate

This issue is dealing with Berber raids into Europe not Egypt


Im Shocked that some people dont know that White Berbers share the indigenous African haplotype as other Africans


Some people actually think they are descendants of European slaves Incredible

Berbers had European slaves (they enslaved about 1.5 million of them and emptied European villages)

But my problem is that some people think that white Berbers are a result of European slaves?


Jesus Christ

Ochi_Agha:

My brother, I am really enjoying this debate. This type of discussion is what Nairaland needs. Not the usual filth that pollute this discussion board. I am not stuck on the term "Black Africa," North Africa, Nubians etc. I see Africa as one continuous continent. I am a Pan-Africanist of the highest order. My belief is to give praise to all African cultures, no matter where they are located on the continent.

If Europeans as far as Norway can give praise to Ancient Greece and Rome, then I should be able to give praise to our ancient kingdoms. Don't you think I should have the ability to do so?

Africa for far too long has been separated by Europeans. I do not believe in this "Sub-Saharan" African term. I believe in one united continent. I also dislike, how many North Africans see themselves not as Africans, but as Arabs. These people have been brainwashed into hating their African roots. Not all of them are Arabs, they are of Berber descent. The true indigenous people of North Africa.

Nwanne I agree 100 percent

There is no such thing like "Sub-saharan" Africa. We are all Africans including the ones in the North. Europeans brought that division

Where did people get this idea that White berbers are descendants of European slaves from?

Berber genetics is very different from that of Europeans. People just read crap and regurgitate it


White Africans are just as African as the rest.



Nature does not observe colour lines. North African genetics tells its own story. They have very little European admixture and do not share European Haplotypes. Their haplotype is indigenous to the African continent

buzugee:

you are lacking in history knowledge bruh. what you see in north africa today is a combination of white slaves, black masters and arab invasion from the north. plain and simple. pick up a book sir and do your research

Falsehood into 1,000,000 places

This is a lie of epic proportions


White Berbers share the same E Haplotype as other  Africans are are joined to other Africans as part of PN2 cluster

The North Africans are NOT Europeans at all genetically

buzugee:

i think you need to go through those links i posted. the white north africans are not indigenous to africa.

YES they are. Their genetics tell its own story. The white North Africans are very very indiginous to Africa.




N/B

For your sanity keep away from forums like topix. A lot of crazies there

buzugee:

anyone who has time has to go through this thread. it is extremely enlightening. look out for the user NOBI. he is extremely intelligent. the most intelligent person i have come across http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/T7MBFVN8633AINMUL

also read this http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/30/009.html

Your assertion that Morrocco, Tunisia, Algeria were "black" countries is falsehood. "White" North Africans are African indigines

Why do people think that the word Africa = "black"

there is actually no such thing as a "black" race or "white" race either. Both terms are socially constructed nonsense that cropped up recently


The ancient world was not stuck on race and neither was their solidarity by "race"

A half "black" king of Ancient Morrocco would always consider "white" Berbers his people ahead of anybody from ancient Congo or Kenya


It would be very misleading to suggest that because the ancient rulers of "white" berbers might be half Tuareg, Zenaga etc, that it is a sign of when "our people" ruled Morrocco

That would be an outright propagation of falsehood

My points are as follows

It is completely correct to say that when Berbers raided Europe, Berbers from the various hues participated in it including the dark ones.

Its completely correct to say that dark Berbers were also part of those who enslaved Europeans by the millions and sold them off in slave houses in North Africa

It is completely correct to say that darker skinned Berbers have been kings and administrators over lighter skinned ones (ie the "white" ones)



However it is outright falsehood to suggest that some "white" people stole North Africa from your "people". The "White " North Africans are indiginous to that area. They are Africans regardless of their light(white) skin colour.

It is misleading to put up titles like the one on this thread. It futhers falsehood of epic proportions

@Ochi

You completely correct in your assertions.The Berbers range from very light to dark. My point is that "race" is a mordern day assertion so are terms like "black" and "white". They are very deceptive term when you try to use them to describe an Ancient society. Berbers used to intermarry with each other so a lot of the "white" Berber societies like Ancient Morrocco actually had many many "black" Kings

The problem is that when a male Royal who is a Riff marries a fellow Berber like a Tuareg lady, their son would become king over Riffs in that society. It would be misleading for a Nigerian to say that it is his "People" who ruled Morrocco however because that half="black" King would see Riffs as his people ahead of say Igbos for example. He would identify with the "white" Riffs ahead of Zuus in S/A


SO you are completely correct in what you are sayino

Ochi_Agha:

True, but we are discussing when Africans ruled Europe. Maybe the "Black" should be taken out of the subject, because it can be misleading.

Would you be ok with "When Africans Ruled in Europe?"

The fact in the matter is that there were "Black" Africans in Spain. People cannot deny that. They were not slaves, they were warriors and administrators. Not all of them were "Black" in the sense, but there were still present.

How come the word "Moor" in Europe has been synonymous with black? Even the ancient European travelers who went to North Africa, described some Africans as having dark wooly hair and skin that looked like bronze.

Race is a social construct and more of a modern day phenomenon. It can be traced to Charles Darwin. The ancients were not stuck on race.

very very very true.

I

Ochi_Agha:

Even though North Africa is considered Arab by many, most of these people actually of Berber descent. They just cannot speak the Berber languages, because the Arab language is very dominant. And you are often stigmatized for being a Berber. But, the Berbers are native to this region.

Here is a modern day map of the Berber languages that are spoken now in North Africa.

You are 100% correct

Il soon type up my response to you in a few minutes. I was attacking the headline of this thread which is misleading

Ochi_Agha:

There are other Berber groups that can be considered "black." I am ready for this debate my brother. The Zenaga/Sanhaja tribe is a Berber tribe of southern Morocco, Mauritania and Senegal.

Here are some pictures of one of them:

The Zenaga too. My point is that uninformed Americans who propagate nonsense about North Africa dont have any idea what they are talking about.

Indigenous people of North Africa range from Riffs to Tuaregs in the Sahel.

The Riffs can be called "white" and the Zenaga "black" but the reality is that when a Zenaga joins a Riff to raid Europe, he is in the company of his people ie his fellow Berbers.

it doesnt mean that their "people" ruled Europe

The problem with this issue is that the Americans who especially like to propagate this nonsense go around looking for anybody that they think "has any black" in them and claim that the person is one of "them" ie their people.

The reality is that the average Tuareg past or present is not similar to a black American in any way imaginable. Neither Egyptians both past and present

The terms "white", "Black" are totally deceptive terms

Ochi_Agha:

sage,

You are correct in some instances and wrong in others. There are "Black" Berbers living in North Africa. And the Moors who conquered Spain did have "Black" Moors amongst them.

I shall provide you with a picture of a Moorish chief. What color does he look like?

Tuaregs are one Berber ethnicity you can classify as "black" so he could easily be a Tuareg Berber

Examples of Berbers include people like Zidane and Affely

North African ethnicities include Shilha, Kabyle, Shawiya, Riffs etc

Those people are indiginous to those areas

Nobody "stole" Egypt from anybody. Egyptians past and present are not similar in any way on earth to black  Americans who love to propagate this kind of trash neither are they similar in anyway to a Nigerian.


People love to peddle falsehood and its annoying


People from ancient places below the Sahara never ruled Europe.

North Africans enslaved Europeans by the millions and sold them in slave houses also

The ignorance on this thread is appalling

Let me set a few things straight


"White" Berbers are indigenous to North Africa. They enslaved Europeans.

Moor does NOT equal "Sub-Saharan" (I dont get where people got that nonsense from. Pathetic American rubbish)

People from Sub-Saharan Africa did not rule Europe

The Berbers of North Africa did and they also owned European slaves

Look up the ethnic groups of North Africa like Kabyles, Riffs,


North Africa was never "black" (Infact what does the terms "white", "black" mean sef)

The ethnic groups that reside in North Africa are indigines of that place

Vieira:

We are schooling Barca no problem.

When you are used to rolling with the big boys like Arsenal is, then you'll understand that we fear no one.

Ordinary AC Milan and all we can hear from N5 is crying and gnashing of the teeth.

yeye spuds.

Vieira you still dey around? You dont see many of the old Nairaland crew around anymore

anyways Milan>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Arsenal in all generations past, present and future

Forza Milan against Roma tommorrow

We must not falter or fail in this particular game otherwise our title surge will be in jeopardy.


Thankfully the winterbreak gives us time to recover Silva. One of the best defenders in the world now. We need him like we need air

chic2pimp:

So there we have it, it's. . . . . . . . . . . .

[size=20pt]AC MILAN vs Tottenham!!![/size]

I am pleasantly satisfied with this draw if I am to be honest. For starters, It could have been worse. Not saying spurs would not be hard to defeat but considering their bitter rival got barcelona and ours got Bayern(Robben and Ribery should be fit and firing on all cylinders by then), then frankly I can't really complain.

Hopefully we will have a clean bill of health by the time this fixture rolls around. Meaning the likes of Thiago Silva and Alexandre Pato should be fit and ready to do battle.

Overall it was an ok draw. Could be worse. I think we are going to win overall. Milan need a left back and an attacking midfielder though

Abate vs Bale, Zambro vs Lennon

I prefer a younger left back.


We can also not afford to lose one of Silva or Nesta for any of the games otherwise we lose

Shell exploiting us, Overseas banks storing our looted treasures etc are symptoms of a bigger issue that is plaguing us.

Our issues have nothing whatsoever to do with skin colour. Ive never seen other groups of people blame their inability to do anything for themselves on a phantom "white" man nor do they measure their successes by skin colour.

We are following the lead of morons by boiling our existence down to skin colour, something that is not the reason why we have the problems that we do today. The only result of that is the kind of mentality found in certain parts of America that is horrific to any new arrival from around the world ie some "white" man is stopping us from doing well for ourselves

It is a hopeless dead end and I am horrified that some Nigerians advocate for such a thing.

"White"/"Black" are just man made labels that actually dont address the issues we have on hand. If you leave yourself open for exploitation, people will exploit you. Humanity has always been that way.

If you make a joke out of yourself, everybody will always regard you as a joke. We as Nigerians should know that better than anybody else. In Nigeria we say that you cant respect people who dont respect themselves.
If we dont even respect ourselves how do we expect somebody else to do that for us?

@caps

I know we have gotten into it a couple of times but I wonder why you have missed my point all along

Vietnam is a country that foreign powers meddled in and totally destroyed. In 1970 Nigeria was far better than Vietnam, and better than Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia etc

Today they are all ahead of us (and they said that they would be back in the 60's) Singapore is fully developed like the United States.

Vietnam, a country behind most African countries and totally devastated by foreign meddlers and their cohots is better than all so-called "Sub-Saharan" African countries with maybe the exception of S/A.

They are far ahead of Nigeria now and the rest of Africa as well

Some people are here loking for excuses left and right. Oh so and so is the reason why Sigapore is developed. Oh so and so is the reason why Malaysia is doing so well bla bla bla. Its always excuse after excuse

When all excuses fail, this funny idea of some "white" man now crops up . Why are we the only group of people into this level of stupidity. Whats this "white/black" meaningless label sef.

there are two stupid extremes. One is the thought that skin colour is the reason we cant do anything for ourselves. the other is that skin colour is the reason some imaginary "white man is stopping us from doing something fopr ourselves. How stupid can we get

we should not be even bringing up skin colour in issues like this. We make ourselves look like fools to the world

My Fellow Nigerians!

We have been our own worst enemy and still are

When the past Prime Minister of Singapore visited Nigeria back in the 60's along with the Malaysian prime Minister, he left dejected

Nigeria was on the same footing or even better than them that time and he had hoped to see former British colonies prosper and saw us as brothers in an uphill struggle

But he realized that we were going to be stuck in mediocrity for a long time to come and he placed the blame for that squarely at our feet. Our mindset and the mindset of our so-called leaders, who are also a product of our society led him to that conclusion. He knew that their countries were going to leave us behind in the dust simply because he didnt think we had what it took to get anywhere.

Our issues have nothing to do with some bogus "white" or "black" label. Our problem is not our skin nor that of another person and there is no solution in that line of thought

The biggest joke of all time is to blame our mediocare status on some "white man" or claim that somebody is stopping us from doing anything for ourselves
Even worse is adopting the mindset of a certain segment of America

Haba my people we are not that kind of caricature are we?

Omenani:

This article was correct on many points. I do feel that many Nigerians suffer from an inferiority complex. This is not only found in Nigeria, but Africa as a whole.

That is why I say, Africans have a lot to learn from Black Americans. They do not suffer from such an inferiority complex compared to most Africans I have encountered. Maybe it was due to their Civil Rights struggle with leaders like the great Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr.

Nigerians have absolutely nothing, I mean nothing to learn from a mentality that makes a certain segment of American society the biggest joke of the world. Every single group of migrants to this country consider that segment of America with the worlds most terrible mentality the absolute biggest joke in humanity.

The idea of some "white" man stopping you from being useful to yourself is un-abriged stupidity. What so-called "white" man are some people talking about sef?


Our problems have absolutely nothing, I mean nothing at all to do with anybody's skin colour including ours. It is stupidity for us to be even discussing such rubbish

Japan is a country where Westerners are loved to death regardless of Atomic bombs and all. They are more developed than virtually all Western countries. Stop bringing skin colour into issues that it has no relevance in. It makes us a caricature in front of the world

Nigerians are a disgrace. We no dey shame sef  The nonsense we put out here for people to see is terrible!!! "White" man this, "white" man that. What stupidity!

Who is this so-called "white" man sef wey some people dey always open their mouth dey yarn okpata on top??


Who stops us from living in clean cities? from paying taxes, from working hard?

Who makes us piss all over our environment, eat around heaps of trash, and never keep to time?

Who stops us from beign productive? organizing our societal structures? treat Nigerian citizens like humans

Ive seen stupidity before, but the level of stupidity I see now makes me wonder if I am actually on a Nigerian forum[i][/i]


When did Nigerians start blaming foreigners for not being able to do something for himself??

koruji:

@Blackteeth
There are a 1001 ways to say the same thing, so you don't have to make a direct statement - but your statement actually came really close to being direct. [size=14pt]When you use the word ONLY in regard to a divine curse on Africans[/size] you rule out all other explanations. May be that is not what you wanted to say, but that is what you said!

You claim that "the economic and political reasons" has not truly explained the African situation. However, you reject them off-hand. Even if you are not convinced the best option is to engage in extensive reading - thank God we are living in this century where the truth about ancient Africa, and not the balderwash the racists wrote hundred of years ago, is being revealed with each passing day. On the other hand you "hang on to" a curse as the ONLY explanation? Are you already sure of that? Again, the best option is to read widely about the subject to enlighten yourself. Most of your explanations here are EXACTLY THE SALVE THOSE WHO DID US HARM APPLIED TO THEIR CONSCIENCES - First, it was that Africans were animals, oh wait they are not animals but cannibals, then it was that if they are people just like us their enslavement is justificed because Noah cursed Canaan in the Bible, they have the color of the devil, etc.

I agree with you. Looking back at it, you were correct for the most part.
There is NO such thing as a "black African" gene so it is stupidity on peoples part to suggest a defect due to something that does not exist.
I was just trying to correct Rossike on North Africa. Even before the arrival of Arabs, North Africa had indigenous people whose skin colour wasnt dark or "black"

koruji:

I think you meant to commend Rossike, at least on this thread, and disparage Brownteeth/Blackteeth/john_mace for the vomit that keeps coming from them. This is because most of what you wrote below actually agrees with what Rossike have being writing, except the Australasian thing. He is actually not saying they are Africans - but blacks. What genetic study suggests is that the Australian aboriginals were among the first set of people to leave the African continent 40-60 thousand years ago.

In essence, genetics is telling us that every human being is African - Africans dispersed by many factors through out the world over many thousands of years.

No I actually ment the guy I originally referenced

The term "black" is a completely meaningless term to be honest. Australasians are connected to other Asians like Japanese people etc regardless of skin colour. genetic studies prove that. They are about the least connected to Africans of everybody on earth.

Also with regards to North Africa, some people dont actually understand the history of that part of our continent. People need to do their research before they start speaking on what they dont know anything about. Not all Africans are dark skinned amnd the indigenous populations of North Africa is testament to a diverse continent.

The award for biggest slowpoke on Nairaland goes to Rossike for typing rubbish of the highest order.

The guy has absolutely no idea what he is talking about. I guess he must be joking or something


Let me set a few things straight here


1. There is NO such thing (and has never been any such thing) like a "black African gene" or any thing similar. It is only the worlds most stupid people would even spout nonsense like that.

2. The Australasians are Asians, completely Asians. They have no connections to Africans whatsoever irrespective of their skin colour or hair. Science has proven that

3. Africa is a continent of diverse colours from time immemorial. Before somebody comes on here to talk nonsense, they should learn about the history of places like North Africa. Some people here dont know WTF they are talking about