Farmerforlife:


Apparently you have to be of Persian origin, and you need to have some alleged descendancy from the Persian wife of alHussein (رضي الله عنه). Even the so-called Arab Ayatullats are of Iranian origins... Sistani, Sadr and co. Blacks and Kurds, being demons (not to talk of being an 'ugly creation') are apparently not eligible.

Indeed, but it seems their foot soldiers wouldn't really care about a black ayatolla, as long as they get funding, they are good and dandy, it is all about the money!

It seems the hatred for blacks is not only with regards to skin color, but also black shoes, here is a funny narration I came across:

"Narrated to us my father saying: Narrated Ahmad bin Idris saying: Narrated to me Muhammad bin Ahmad, from Musa bin Omar, from Abdallah bin Jablah, from Hanan bin Sudair who said:

I entered on Abu Abdallah [as] wearing a black shoe, and he said: Why are you wearing a black shoe? Did you not know there are three characteristics in it? The narrator said: I said, what are they, may I be your ransom? He [as] said: It weakens your vision, loosens your penis and brings you depression. On top of that, it is part of the arrogant apparel. Wear the yellow shoes, for in it is three characteristics. The narrator said: I said, what are they? He [as] said: It sharpens the vision, strengthens the penis and puts away the depression, and furthermore, it is part of the Prophets [as] apparel".

(Khisal, Ibn Babuyah al-Qummi, Narration 50, Page 90)

No wonder they cannot stand having a black ayatollah! They all would become blind, depressed and impotent!

@tintinz, It is quite pathetic that you couldn’t comprehend my last post, and you want to lay claim to being logical and rational?! If that there are fraud amongst scientist is the only thing which you could infer from the two quotes, then, your case is even worse than I had imagined…By the way, I would repeat for the umpteenth time, Islam is not against science, and I am also not against science. Again, insults and bringing up irrelevancies doesn’t put you in a good light; apparently, you lack logical arguments to refute my submissions thus far.

Insults and abuse are not really one of the characteristics of intellectuals and logical individuals, but again, it is clear you guys like bandying big words about without proper understanding and application.

@AlBaqir, your case is well documented on here, so I am not surprised, so you are even trying to claim Islam is not about science, but morals, and you are here hell bent on proving evolution from the Qur’an?! When Allah (SWT) says something and science say another, which do you follow?! Since religion or Islam only teaches only morals, then why do we have scientific facts in the Qur’an being corroborated by scientist as accurate and correct?! By the way, my questions up there are still much in need of your attention, perhaps you can also explain the evolution of Adam (AS) from monkeys, using the Qur’an, oh sorry, you may use your almighty “science”! Also tell us, how many millions of years did Allah (SWT) need to create just this earth?!

In fact your case is even worse, you believe a 5 year old is still alive, hiding in a cave since over 1200 years ago, your “science” and “intellect” did not tell you that this is impossible and it is nothing but a fairy tale?! Something from a Hollywood blockbuster?!

Now let’s look at some interesting scientific “facts” from the shia,

"Narrated to us my father saying: Narrated Ahmad bin Idris saying: Narrated to me Muhammad bin Ahmad, from Musa bin Omar, from Abdallah bin Jablah, from Hanan bin Sudair who said:

I entered on Abu Abdallah [as] wearing a black shoe, and he said: Why are you wearing a black shoe? Did you not know there are three characteristics in it? The narrator said: I said, what are they, may I be your ransom? He [as] said: It weakens your vision, loosens your penis and brings you depression. On top of that, it is part of the arrogant apparel. Wear the yellow shoes, for in it is three characteristics. The narrator said: I said, what are they? He [as] said: It sharpens the vision, strengthens the penis and puts away the depression, and furthermore, it is part of the Prophets [as] apparel".

(Khisal, Ibn Babuyah al-Qummi, Narration 50, Page 90)


For more interesting revelations, visit : Here

Please see attached pictures, for pictures of those who believe in this bogus narration, but AlBaqir would call these men cavemen including the narrator of the hadith!!! Abi, AlBaqir, are they not cavemen?!

^^^ wa alaykum salam, jazakillah khayran for sharing, may Allah (SWT) make us part of those who remember and always take heed, ameen.

tintingz:
- Science have answered 95% of what we humans seek and even solve many of our problems. I didn't study science in school, I discover I can find answers in science that was the first reason I started doing researches and I'm gaining a lot. I don't want to live an ignorant life.
The gap is what people like you thinks science didn't solve anything but deep down you know science as really done a lot than what religion can't do. And am very sure in the nearest future science will be 100% progressive.

- People have said I sound like an atheist, I won't mention names. Anyways my belief is different from yours and the thing is I was once like your fellows. You can go to all my past years threads.
Now I'm a change person, you even said I believe in science a lot (western ideology) abeg what does that mean eh?

Just to enlighten you a bit, and I am indeed done with discussing on the topic of evolution, I know you do not have a science background, and you are yet to come to terms with what it really takes to be rational and open-minded. Calling someone a caveman or ignorant does not really mean anything, it is quite an irrational outburst!

The above statistics you quote show you don’t know what you are talking about, you just don’t come up with figures from thin air, and expect everyone to accept it as fact! What science cannot explain is way more than what it can, and I don’t know how long you expect science to give you all the answers, but I trust you believe so much in science to keep “faith” and keep waiting…

Here are some information to help with your thoughts…

"There is increasing concern that most current published research findings are false. The probability that a research claim is true may depend on study power and bias, the number of other studies on the same question, and, importantly, the ratio of true to no relationships among the relationships probed in each scientific field. In this framework, a research finding is less likely to be true when the studies conducted in a field are smaller; when effect sizes are smaller; when there is a greater number and lesser preselection of tested relationships; where there is greater flexibility in designs, definitions, outcomes, and analytical modes; when there is greater financial and other interest and prejudice; and when more teams are involved in a scientific field in chase of statistical significance. Simulations show that for most study designs and settings, it is more likely for a research claim to be false than true. Moreover, for many current scientific fields, claimed research findings may often be simply accurate measures of the prevailing bias.

Published research findings are sometimes refuted by subsequent evidence, with ensuing confusion and disappointment. Refutation and controversy is seen across the range of research designs, from clinical trials and traditional epidemiological studies to the most modern molecular research. There is increasing concern that in modern research, false findings may be the majority or even the vast majority of published research claims. However, this should not be surprising. It can be proven that most claimed research findings are false."

Source

"Malpractice and misconduct

The South Korean scientist Hwang Woo-suk, rose to international acclaim in 2004 when he announced, in the journal Science, that he had extracted stem cells from cloned human embryos. The following year, Hwang published results showing he had made stem cell lines from the skin of patients – a technique that could help create personalised cures for people with degenerative diseases. By 2006, however, Hwang's career was in tatters when it emerged that he had fabricated material for his research papers. Seoul National University sacked him and, after an investigation in 2009, he was convicted of embezzling research funds.

Around the same time, a Norwegian researcher, Jon Sudbø, admitted to fabricating and falsifying data. Over many years of malpractice, he perpetrated one of the biggest scientific frauds ever carried out by a single researcher – the fabrication of an entire 900-patient study, which was published in the Lancet in 2005.

Marc Hauser, a psychologist at Harvard University whose research interests included the evolution of morality and cognition in non-human primates, resigned in August 2011 after a three-year investigation by his institution found he was responsible for eight counts of scientific misconduct. The alarm was raised by some of his students, who disagreed with Hauser's interpretations of experiments that involved the, somewhat subjective, procedure of working out a monkey's thoughts based on its response to some sight or sound.

Hauser last week admitted to making "mistakes" that led to the findings of research misconduct. "I let important details get away from my control, and as head of the lab, I take responsibility for all errors made within the lab, whether or not I was directly involved," says Hauser in a statement sent to Nature. The doubts over Hauser's work affect a whole field of scientific work that uses the same research technique."

Source

By the way, I am not against science, Islam doesn’t prohibit or inhibit science and research, it is clearly stated in the Quran to explore the heavens and the earth if you can, but there is a limit to what you can know/understand and find out, and all these would be with the permission of Allah!…So when I said you should think twice before accepting any information you get online as “science”, I know what I am talking about!

^^^

Chicken AlBaqir!

@tintingz, you should make up your mind on time, there is nothing like sounding like an atheist/agnostic, it is either you are or you are not. It is either you believe in the supremacy of the Qur'an and what is written as the absolute truth from Allah (SWT), or you do not! By the way, it is your life, your choices are always yours, you need not be afraid to state your beliefs boldly....By the way, science do not have answers you seek, they model, speculate and assume, thereafter, if they are capable, they can experiment, and so far, some of the experiments carried out had been shattering some of their speculations and assumptions, so before you quote science, think twice....

All the best!

I'm done here!

AlBaqir:


Bro you won't kill me this night with laughter. You can clearly see yourself how inconsistent cave-thinking they become especially in their quest to defend by all means what is undefendable.

Eyah! So this is what you have reduced yourself to?! Well i can't blame you, you are looking for relevancy on here after being critically knocked out by exposing your duplicity and deceitfulness...Continue the cheerleader activities, it is quite befitting

tintingz:
The thing is your rationality is limited to your belief.

Imagine someone saying fairies don't exist but believe Satan enters people's mouth, pee pee. Abeg how the cucumber go be.

So you can't define rationality I presume....

The best option to have taken is to say Satan does not exist. If you believe Satan exist, and argue about his activities without prove about what Satan can do or cannot, then you are being irrational in your beliefs.

I am not limited by my beliefs, I know how to apply my intellect and faith accordingly, I do not get confused, i am smart enough to see the pitfalls of putting your intellect before revelations....

AlBaqir:


Of what importance or benefit it is to you other than trying to play your "Shi'i racist card" which obviously doesn't work? Or are you planning becoming an Ayatullah?

# You dare talk about history of Shiism when its history and development was plagued by your sunni/wahabi oppression and sectarian discrimination.

# Till date, Shiism and its achievements is still within Iran and Iraq, two countries with no black inhabitants. Shi'i Al-Ahzar university, Cairo which perhaps would have produce Black qualified Allama/Maraj'i/Ayatullah was hijacked by your oppressive religion.

# Africa do not have Shi'i history not to mention of studying in those two Shi'i predominant countries at least in the last 100years. Thanks to Sunni/Wahabi indoctrination of Africa and sectarian discrimination of Shiism. Things only have its development in the last 20 years or so.

# Shiism enters Nigeria not less than 20 years ago. And I have never seen a Nigerian dedicating his entire life for studying in Iranian or Iraqi Shi'i ilmiyyah/Jamiyyah. Nigerian are the only majority African in those two Shia countries.

# Please if you don't have something sensible to ask, stop mentioning my alias.

I'm sorry o, I would not ask again, chai! Did I touch a nerve?

I need not play a racist card against shiism, from the few narrations already presented, the ideology of your masters about blacks are well documented and established. Don't worry, perhaps you would be the first black ayatolla, and we are going to celebrate it like Obama's historic presidency....

beht why did your shia masters not propagate the "real" Islam?! So for close to how many years, blacks were just misguided?! No o, not only blacks, almost the whole countries Sunni Islam got to except for Iran and Iraq?! Oh! Sorry, I forgot the Sunnis never gave them the opportunity, right?! A religion based on excuses SMH!

You have yet to tell us what it takes to be an ayatolla, if it is just dedicating ones entire life to study and learning in Iran or Iraq, I know, blacks are very resilient and can achieve that without hassle. There should be at least one black person aspiring to this "abi" ayatolla is also inherited ni?! Perhaps El Zakyzaky could be you people's ayatolla in Nigeria?!

tintingz:
With all these ignorance you just spit out, are you saying science discoveries are invalid?

The difference between what you just posted and science is that one has evidence and the other is wiggling on air.

No wonder Albaqir keep calling you people cavemen.

You guys are the "knowledgeable" ones who are trying to explain Islam and evolution, I have only quoted what can be found in the Qur'an and asked relevant questions, so let your fan, AlBaqir, come to your rescue, I see you are already out of your depth on this one....

Scientific discoveries or speculations?!

AlBaqir:


# Obviously there are hidden teachings of some of these ulama in both Sunni and Shi'i school. And to me its very unwise trying to defend what is undefendable unlike you guys. Again those ahadith teaches nothing but rascism which, even with the last drop of my blood, I will reject. Can you do that with ahadith of similar genre in your "infallible books of hadith's"? This is one of the differences between me, you and your folks. I don't defend nonsense.

# Rascism was (is) obviously reign in " Islamic world " just as post-Prophet Muhammad's Islam was spread with violence, sword and injustice. From Egypt, Algeria, Morocco to Libya et al, none of them were originally Arab. The inhabitants of these countries were racially destroyed and the surviving ones racially abused and suppressed till these days. That is the general history of "Islam" of Muslims. Obviously that is different from Muhammadan Islam. Apart from Racial discrimination, sectarian discrimination continue to reign supreme and it seems the later has overtaken the former.

# Black Ayatullah?! Really I haven't seen one. This is obviously not of a racial discrimination as you want to paint it. Shiism is still growing in Africa. It has no established base yet. And I haven't seen a single African that have studied to the qualification of being an Ayatullah. Even there is no Allama. If there is any known to you, kindly bring him out. Oh there are lots of Sheiks (Shi'ite educational qualification - equivalent of MSc), and few of PhD holders. Indo-Pakistani sub continent has none or 1 (Ayatullah). Is that also racial discrimination since the people of this region aren't black?! Many spent their entire lives to become a Maraj'i yet do not succeed. Ayatullah Ali Sistani who rules Arabian Iraq is a Persian from Iran. What does that says?!


# Please note: There is a big difference between being a Muslim and knowing Islam. Islam is different from Muslim. Shiism is different from Shia. Sunnism is different from Sunni.

All these stories are irrelevant!

There are no blacks who are ayatolla! Is it that there were no blacks all through the history of shiism who were capable of becoming an ayatolla?! So tell us what it takes to be an ayatolla in shiism?

tintingz:
Again, Kids are more rational than adults just that they are still fragile.

Use yourself as an experiment for a day and think like a kid who hasn't been indoctrinated with superstitions and religious beliefs, and I told you Satan enters peoples mouth when they yawn, do you know what will be your question "Why does Satan enters people's mouth, who's Satan and where does it live" this is where indoctrination begins.

Kids are wire to accept anything their parents or elders told them but before that they ask questions.

If I'm raised in China, do you think I will be practicing Islam?

Kids are limited to being rational because their mind are not yet filled with religious beliefs, society practices and superstitions.



It seems you don't get it.

We pray to God right? Kids wish to tooth fairy right? How will many people feel when they pray and things are not changing for them, now that's the same concept of tooth fairy wishes.

People pray to God and do fake miracles especially pastors what's the different with parent putting gifts under kids pillow making kids wishes come through. There are books and movies on tooth fairy that makes kids believe they exist, there are movies about Jesus, Santa, sango that makes people to believe they exist.

Here is another superstition about kids teeth.


During the Middle Ages, other superstitions arose surrounding children's teeth. In England, for example, children were instructed to burn their baby teeth in order to save the child from hardship in the afterlife. Children who didn't consign their baby teeth to the fire would spend eternity searching for them in the afterlife. The Vikings, it is said, paid children for their teeth. In the Norse culture, children's teeth and other articles belonging to children were said to bring good luck in battle, and Scandinavian warriors hung children's teeth on a string around their necks. Fear of witches was another reason to bury or burn teeth. In medieval Europe, it was thought that if a witch were to get hold of one's teeth, it could lead to them having total power over him or her.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tooth_fairy

This are the beliefs surrounding kids teeth.

There are kids that have encounter fairies.

Parents use tooth fairy to comfort thier kids how is that different from satan enters people's mouth because there are ridiculous reasons behind them.


A doctor will never make such statement to his patient.
Anyways your statement doesn't make sense and I've never heard someone referring HIV as Satan because it is clearly a medical condition.



Because air or living things enter our mouth means it is Satan ? I don't understand you people again.

And why do you also have problem with tooth fairy stories eh?


Okies

Sighs!

Please, define rationality....

tintingz:
Do you really believe everything came up in one night? Because of the statement "be and it is"?

Even Muslim scientists knows everything took stages and progress.

And you claim to have knowledge in science.

Of course things were in stages, and there is an explanation for Allah's statement about creating the heavens and the earth in six days, and this does not limit Allah (SWT) to following such stages or process before creation...

"Be and it is", is a powerful statement, but I am sure you do not understand, well to help you a bit, Musa (AS) was said to have divided the red sea which just a stick at an instant, and the same stick became a snake at an instant! Not to mention the story about how Ibrahim(as) asked how Allah (SWT) created things of which he was instructed to do an experiment with four birds, kill them and divide them on four mountains and they all came to him at an instant!

I laugh in spanglish, my knowledge of science does not put me in opposition to my religious beliefs.

tintingz:

Start by telling us the language of Adam and how early humans communicate.

You are the theorist na, you said sign language, and I was wondering when Allah (SWT) stated categorically he taught Adam (as) everything, and thereafter asked him to mention things for the Angels, perhaps it was sign language they were all using...leading to the pertinent question about creation and evolution, was the first man a complete creation with speech capabilities and intellect, or he evolved from a sub-par ancestors of dumb and less and poorly intelligent apes...?!

tintingz:

It amaze me how someone who claim to have knowledge of science speak out of ignorance, everything is process and stages.

The heaven and earth was created in six days right, what does this verse means?

They challenge you to bring retribution, and GOD never fails to fulfill His prophecy. A day of your Lord is like a thousand of your years. (Quran 22:47).

6 days to Allah (SWT) * 1000 (Years of humans) = 6000 years and in another verse, it says a day is like 15,000 years, so, 6 * 15,000 years = 90,000 years, so how many years did it take for earth to be formed by evolution again?! Or how long did it take a single cell to evolve and become a human being?!

tintingz:
Kids are more rational than adults it is the parents and society that change/indoctrinate them.

Interesting, so the parents and society (who are less rational by the way) successfully indoctrinated the kids to become irrational?! I had stated how and why kids are limited in being rational.

tintingz:

Again you can't argue that fairies don't exist, you've to show prove, parents are involve in tooth fairy thing doesn't mean they don't exist, people act santa claus, Jesus, Sango and angels in movies does that mean they don't exist?, there are books on fairies but all adults (except kids) knows fairies don't exit now compare that to yawning is from Satan it is only Muslims like you believe Satan enters people's mouth when they yawn.

Do you know the story of the tooth fairy?! I said it doesn't exist in any context to signify that its existence is questionable, the earliest reports about this tradition, was stated that the parents were always responsible for the gifts or money (wiki). It is a different scenario when adults put on costumes, and the deception of sneaking into the children's room at night. In cases when kids do find out, it could become counterproductive thereby straining the relationship between the kid and the parents.

Satan is believed to be a spiritual being, from the Islamic point of view, Satan is a Jinn. Now there are people who have had encounters with a Jinn, as I have stated earlier, we are limited with respect to issues that has to do with spirituality. you may call it magic, call it schizophrenia, call it hallucination, call it whatever, it really doesn't matter. I refrained from explaining some of these statements (about activities of satan) based on spiritual connotations, rather i explained the reasoning behind them which I stated to be rational!

tintingz:

HIV/AIDs doesn't have cure yet, does that mean it is Satan?

Do you know I can refer to a man, who is HIV positive, and knowingly infect unsuspecting people with HIV satan?! And while exploring my literary prowess, i would say, "...and she slept with the devil (satan)..."

tintingz:

Note: Malaria doesn't have cure in past but there are cure for malaria, people don't know the causes of malaria, it took reserch and experiments to know.

When it comes to science it progress in research, because scientists have not concluded in yawning research doesn't mean its from Satan, a least there are clues why we yawn just like there are clues how people trasmitted the virus.

See, I drink and live science, and I am always open minded. If tomorrow it is established that yawning is good for cooling the brain, I would accept without a fuss! That would not make me reject the narration in question, because the hadith was never about the science of yawning! Secondly, at the superficial understanding, the hadith is teaching morals/proper etiquette etc., and at a deeper understanding, it has to do with a Muslim's relationship with a spiritual being i.e Shaitan (la). Is it possible for something you cannot see, like air, enter into you through your mouth when you open it wide?! We know and it is established that there are living things which we cannot see, but can enter into our body, through our mouths and other orifices...So it shouldn't be an issue, except you do not believe in the existence of a spiritual being.

tintingz:

Lol, OK.
Have a good day ahead.

Many thanks, and same to you too.

This is quite amusing, evolution and Islam...

First you all forgot about the fact that Allah (SWT) states in the Qur'an,

2:117- The Initiator of the heavens and the earth: to have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.
3:47- She said, "My Lord, how can I have a son, when no man has touched me?" He said, "God thus creates whatever He wills. To have anything done, He simply says to it, 'Be,' and it is."
6:73- He is the One who created the heavens and the earth, truthfully. Whenever He says, "Be," it is. His word is the absolute truth. All sovereignty belongs to Him the day the trumpet is blown. Knower of all secrets and declarations, He is the Most Wise, the Cognizant.
16:40- To have anything done, we simply say to it, "Be," and it is.
19:35- It does not befit God that He begets a son, be He glorified. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is."
36:82- All He needs to do to carry out any command is say to it, "Be," and it is.
40:68- He is the only One who controls life and death. To have anything done, He simply says to it, "Be," and it is.
(Translations as taken from wiki..)

Secondly, you also have forgotten Allah said:
And He taught Adam the names of all things; then He placed them before the angels, and said: “Tell me the names of these if you are truthful.”

They said: “Glory be to You! We possess no knowledge save what You have taught us. Indeed, You alone are All-Knowing, the Wise.”

He said: “O Adam! Inform them of their names.” When he had informed them, Allah said: “Did I not tell you that I know what is unseen in the heavens and on Earth, and I know what you reveal and what you hide?” [Sūrah al-Baqarah: 31-33]

Was it sign language Allah (SWT) used or some extinct language...THINK

Thirdly, How many years did it take "mutations" to occur, to bring about the first man?! No scratch that, how many years did it take "the big bang" to bring about the earth, or even the Sun?! or our solar systems?! Can you please put it side by side with Allah's clear statement of Be, and it is?! Also, put into consideration another verse of the Qur'an:

“Indeed, your Lord is Allaah, Who created the heavens and the earth in Six Days, and then He rose over (Istawa) the Throne (really in a manner that suits His Majesty)”

[al-A’raaf 7:54]

Well you guys can continue with your speculations....

Farmerforlife:

It should be noted that numerous rafidhi shiite scholars like alKhoei have endorsed these pronouncements, and it explains why the shia maraji you cited up there have such views, they are mainstream rafidhi shiite views. So before you refer to misquoted, misinterpreted hadith in Bukhari, expunge these from your books. Oh, and I'd forget about ever becoming an ayatullat with a zunj (black) skin. Your shiite leaders probably think that their African followers are part demon.

Jazakumullahu khayran for bringing out these narrations from the shias, it has been so amazing how AlBaqir and his friends on here try to paint shiism as one beautiful religion, but the reality is quite the opposite!

@bold, please AlBaqir, so there are no black "Ayatulla"?! how come?!

tintingz:
^^^ Sino,

- Kids believe tooth fairy exist just like they believe Satan lick their dropped candy, tooth fairy can't be seen even though kids gave their experience seeing one, maybe a shadow of their parents or illusion/imagination. It is only adults that doesn't believe in both tooth fairy and the candy-liking Satan. Not everyone believes in Satan-yawning stuff because it doesn't make sense to them, that's my point.

Kids are told what to believe, their capacity to reason is quite limited, their knowledge base and experiences cannot afford them the elevated status of reasoning things by themselves. On the other hand, adults, who are responsible for these statements and ideas are capable of this. My point has always been that the reasoning behind these statements can be stated to be rational, for these statements are result oriented! Not to mention the origin of some of these statement being an instrument of language and communication. The most interesting fact about rationality is that it is easily misused and misunderstood. Sometimes, being rational can be subjective and it would be illogical to claim another person's view is irrational!

tintingz:

- The theory you gave is another argument which another will disagree just like religious scholars disagreeing with themselves, scientists are still studying the brain, you didn't provide link.

I did not bring any theory, just what has been established from years of research in the area of brain thermoregulation studies, and the fact that yawning was not even given any consideration by the authors! Check the references, you can always get it just a click away...use the doi...

tintingz:

- Replying your post will be a waste of time as I will keep repeating same thing, a rational person here will get my point just like your fellows will get your point.

My fellows?! Alhamdulilah for Islam!

tintingz:

Its nice discussing with you, I use to enjoy it.

I appreciate the fact that I read wide and learn more from research when I engage in such discussions, I hardly get stimulated to read these days...

tintingz:
- Satan is said to be a spirit being, when does spirit start licking candies?
I can't even imagine Satan licking candies or peeing, sound ridiculous.

Clearly, you did not bother to read the "Source" in my previous post, likewise my efforts to open your mind. I am sure you know what figure of speech means.

tintingz:

- Tooth fairy exist until you show evidence it doesn't.

I have done that already, read my post again!

tintingz:

- I live in the city not village, will whistling in my sitting room attract snakes? And besides snake hearing is poor, they work with vibration.

Do you know the origin of whistling attracts snakes?! Did it start in modern times?! Who were its proponents?! Of course your whistling would not attract snakes into your sitting room, but I am only trying to state a possibility of this being true, especially in an environment prone to snake infestation. Another reasoning behind the statement is the possibility of attracting danger to yourself at night, especially in a very quiet environment...Another case of using figures of speech! i.e snakes=danger!

tintingz:

I guess taking drugs and medication will scare Satan away.

Yes! In fact, not only drugs, being clean and cleaning your environment too also scares satan away! No jokes!

tintingz:

- Science is not western ideology, western adopted science because it gives them answer to some things at least close to 90%.

I do not know where you got your statistics from, anyway, science is not the issue here, as I had pointed out already, science is universal! But when you claim superiority of an assumption, which is still very in dispute as regards the experimental backings, over a religious teaching which is substantiated at least ethically, not to mention the fact that the religious teaching is guaranteed as being authentic, originating from "the authority figure" in the religion, then I will tag it as you following western ideology and not science per se. Your only yardstick for denying the hadith is that it does not make sense, or it is irrational, based on an assumption by a westerner.

tintingz:

- Science on why we yawn is still progressing, we don't know why we yawn in the past but now there are theories why we yawn which has not been concluded.

Actually, we did know why we yawn, we knew the triggers, the pointers, the only issue is to understand the physiological function and mechanism. I do not dispute the possibility of a breakthrough in the future, but as it stands, being a person of science myself, the thermoregulation hypothesis of yawning is still not convincing. I recently read a 2014 and 2015 review on clinical perspective on brain temperature regulation, it may interest you to note that yawning was not even mentioned at all.

tintingz:

Ok.
But when I yawn, Satan does not enter my own mouth.

No qualms!

tintingz:

Not only yawning is contagious, there are other things that are contagious. I gave an example of someone drinking soft drink with passion, it gives the next person the urge to drink. Does that also imply Satan whispering? How about mental?

My point is; not all human behaviours are contagious, please make use of google. Satan's whisper is established, you may believe or not, that is immaterial, but since yawning is contagious just by thinking, seeing another or even reading about it, then it can also come from the whispering of satan. Whether you think it is mental or psychologic, no problem, satan does have access to those faculties of yours.

tintingz:

Yawning is not from Satan, must I accept yawning is from Satan. Na by force?
You don't have to accept yawning cool the brain, you can stick to your yawning is from Satan.

I do not respond to you to force you to believe anything, you may even deny Allah's existence. You came stating an article is junk without any reasons given, then you later tried to justify your claims with a narration. A narration which you clearly did not understand, nor are you willing to be open-minded about. You cannot say you are rational, then runaway from being able to show your rationality...Undermining religious teachings does not convey rationality.

My accepting (believing) the cooling hypothesis (theory) of yawning would not be based on "it makes more sense" it would be based on empirical evidences!

The reasoning behind "yawning is from shaitan" has already been explained thus far, it is not by force to believe, you cannot say it is irrational when you cannot counter the reasoning put forth or based on an unsubstantiated assumption.

tintingz:

Scientists are not confused they just have different theories and research that has not yet been concluded.
Or should I say all these Islamic scholars disagreeing with themselves about Islamic beliefs are confused?

I only quoted an article, and what was stated by some scientists. When it is said that the result of an experiment is decidedly mixed, I do not know what better way to say it than it is confusing! This is not about different theories, the only one theory of cooling the brain is the bone of contention.

tintingz:

Who said about seeing someone urinating? I said thinking of urinating can bring the feeling of urinating. Go and re-read what I posted.

There are many evidence that human behavior or action is contagious, example seeing someone having sex, eating, drinking, yawning, crying.

There are human behaviours that have been proven to be contagious, yawning is one of them, I have not read where urinating is said to be contagious, most of the contagious behaviours are strongly linked with human emotions, behaviours you hardly can control...Drinking coke is not the behaviour that would bring about contagious response, but the emotions expressed by the drinker (like being happy etc.), go and check the video adverts to see what i am talking about. Except you are thirsty, if you look at the picture of a man drinking coke from morning till night, you wouldn't feel the urge to drink.

tintingz:

This is a 2014 report, A Gallup theory.

Gallup, now at the State University of New York at Oneonta, was first inspired with the idea during his undergraduate degree, when he realised that yawning might help to chill the brain and stop it overheating. The violent movement of the jaws moves blood flow around the skull, he argued, helping to carry away excess heat, while the deep inhalation brings cool air into the sinus cavities and around the carotid artery leading back into the brain. What’s more, the strenuous movements could also flex the membranes of sinuses – fanning a soft breeze through the cavities that should cause our mucus to evaporate, which should chill the head like air conditioning.

The most obvious test was to see if people are more or less likely to yawn in different temperatures. In normal conditions, Gallup found that around 48% felt the urge to yawn, but when he asked them to hold a cold compress to their foreheads, just 9% succumbed. Breathing through the nose, which could also cool the brain, was even more effective, completely dampening his subjects’ urge to yawn – potentially suggesting a handy trick for anyone facing embarrassment during a tedious conversation.

Perhaps the best evidence comes from two troubled women who approached Gallup soon after he first published his results. Both were looking for relief from pathological yawning attacks, sometimes lasting an hour at a time. “It was extremely debilitating and interferes with any basic activity,” says Gallup. “They’d have to walk away and go to a secluded area – it affected their personal and professional lives.” Intriguingly, one of the women found the only way to stop the yawning attack was to throw herself into cold water. Inspired, Gallup asked them to place a thermometer in their mouths before and after the attacks. Sure enough, he saw a slight rise in temperature just before the yawning bouts, which continued until it dropped back to 37C.

Gallup’s unified theory has been somewhat contentious among yawning researchers. “Gallup’s group has failed to present any convincing experimental evidence to support his theory,” says Hess. In particular, his critics point out he hasn’t made direct measurements of temperature changes in the human brain, though Gallup says he has found the expected fluctuations in yawning rats. Provine is more positive, however – believing that it could be one way in which yawning helps the brain change state, and focus.
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140811-warning-this-may-make-you-yawn

The Gallup theory you quoted is not even through with his research, but lately he knows yawning cool/chill the brain, that's the only clues at hand now but still progressing.

I have even read beyond this, I have read their rebuttal to their critics, but i am not convinced. There are still loop-holes in the said researches conducted on rats. The brain core temperature is said to be higher than the body temperature but correlates well with body temperature, (mind you, the brain regulates the body temperature primarily by sweating and chills), thus the brain temperature is regulated by this difference (i.e between brain and body), as heat generated in the brain is transferred to the blood. The brain temperature is said to be dependent on some variables which includes; brain metabolism, cerebral blood flow, blood temperature and volume (Wang et. al., 2014). The researchers (who are proving yawning causes coolness) have yet to show us what temperature constitute high temperature that needs cooling before yawning is set as a mechanism to cool the brain?! Because there should be consistency with when the rats reach such temperature to always induce yawning. Finally, even how the brain functions is yet to be fully understood, there is also another pointer that the brain has the capacity to redistribute its temperature from one region to another, essentially cooling and heating simultaneously (wang et. al., 2015), one would therefore ask which part of the brain is yawning cooling and what is the mechanism for this cooling?! I have not even mentioned the anatomical structure of the brain in relation to maintaining the brain's temperature, which would also prove the irrelevance of yawning to cool the brain. There are more questions to ask, but I wouldn't want to go further than this.

Ref: Wang H. et. al., (2014). Brain Temperature and its Fundamental Properties: a Review for Clinical Neuroscientis. Front. Neurosci. 8:307. doi:10.3389/fnins.2014.00307

Wang H. et. al., (2015). Thermal Regulation of the Brain-An Anatomical and Physiological Review for Clinical Neuroscientists. Front. Neurosci. 9:528. doi: 10.3389/fnins.2015.00528

tintingz:


So you believe the urban legend that Satan lick candy?
Then you should also believe snakes appear to someone that whistle at night or the tooth fairies.

And you got it wrong, the societies knows dirts are fill with germs and bacterial that can cause sickness, abi you no dey watch Detol commercials?, the Satan was just a figure head to scare the kids since anything Satan is bad, evil, monster, hell fire. That's the only way to get kids attention and communicate, now relate this to "yawning is from satan or satan enters person mouth when yawning.

You are yet to understand my explanation thus far, I tried to explain the rationale behind the statement, but it seems you are a one way traffic. Even if I can still explain how satan may possibly lick your dropped candy with respect to spiritual connotations, I brought forth the appropriate reasoning which easily qualifies as being rational or say logical. Satan is not an imaginary being, at least if you believe in existence of God…Even if we say satan is imaginary, what is known (or narrated) in terms of his character are evil and vile. From such characteristics of satan already established, we can easily draw a parallel between satan and anything evil, dirty and even ill health. Perhaps I should simply state that the statement is figurative, its intended use is logical, and result oriented. On the contrary, even though the intended purpose of "inventing" a tooth fairy is noble, the tooth fairy doesn’t exist in any context. The parents would sneak into their children's room and place money under the pillow, in exchange for a tooth, it is just to relieve children undergoing pain of losing a tooth. While I cannot say much about whistling at night and snakes, i'll urge you to go to the villages where they have bushes around them, and carryout an experiment, Why not try google, do snakes hear?!

Explaining the Satan’s likeness for yawning Ibn Battal (d. 449AH) writes:

“And similar is the case for all activities ascribed to the Devil and they have two meanings; [it is] either by the way of [Satan’s] pleasure and will or by the way of whispering in the heart and making something adorable.”
If you may note, the above scholar died in 449 AH, we are in 1439 AH, and this shows that these scholars, understood the narrations accordingly.

Source: I would encourage you to read the whole article; it explains another narration about satan urinating in someone’s ears, a narration in which people have criticized without knowledge.

Well I wasn’t really referring to modern societies, regardless; you have acknowledged the reasoning behind the use of satan, which is logical and rational! That you now know there are pathogenic bacteria and viruses on the floor, doesn’t change the fact that satan as described, is a lover of dirt and filth! So when you drop your candy, and the floor is dirty (which is, in most cases), satan is licking it and having a good time with it!

Furthermore, Satan was created to harm you (regardless of his modus operandi), so also are pathogenic organisms. These are parallels to show that it is logical to say satan licks your candy! If you do not believe satan exist, then you should state it clearly, because that is a different ball game entirely!

tintingz:

So science is now western ideology?
Then why do we see Islamic scholars using science (western ideology) to prove Islamic beliefs?

Since anything from satan is bad, There is no evidence that yawning is bad to the body, thats my argument.

I said it is irrational not because I don't like it but because is ridiculous to call something beneficial to the body a devil's workshop and lastly it sounds like Satan lick candy.

The science in parenthesis ought to be in quotations, of course science is universal, mind you, the hadith is not meant to explain the science of yawning. The fact that the proponent of the theory which you presented is Gordon Gallup et. al., who are generally from the West, and the fact that you did not bring any evidence for this theory, after I had challenged you, only buttresses the author’s opinion about “modernist” who hold western ideology as accurate and true and look down on Islamic teachings and traditions as irrational without adequate knowledge, which makes refuting Islamic teaching only based on whims, or what the westerners have said to make sense even if the westerners statement is just an assumption.

Another fallacy is stating that anything from satan is bad. There is a narration where satan taught the use of ayatul kursiy is that bad?! Again read the above explanation with regards to "yawning is from satan". I had said earlier, Yawning in Islam is not prohibited, nor considered a sin, but you should apply proper etiquette accordingly lest you become a tool in the hands of satan, or become a source of ridicule, not only to satan, even your fellow man would laugh at you.

tintingz:

You forgot to mention it also caused by heated brain when our breathing is reduced, that's the main reason. When you're tired, hungry, bored, the oxygen that comes in reduce then we're to open our mouth(yawn) to take in more oxygen to cool the brain. now that make more sense than Satan enters our mouth when we feel lazy or laugh at us.

How many Islamic scholars explain that way?

Just as I said above, the hadith is not a scientific journal that tries to explain the science of yawning, moreover, the idea or theory of brain heating up and cooling by yawning is not substantiated, there is no correlation between breathing rate and brain temperature, also, oxygen intake does not cool the brain, you should say cool air…The triggers of yawning, some of which are fatigue, drowsiness, etc. are what I was talking about in terms of clues. I also used the fact that it is proven that yawning is contagious even by reading about it, to explain the possibility of shaitan to whisper yawning in man, especially when man is to carry out his religious obligations.

tintingz:

Again, not every Muslim believe "yawning is from Satan"

You said scientists are confused because of their different theories and I said Islamic scholars are also with different opinions causing confusion.

I challenged you to bring statements of some of these scholars, Empiree had presented some already, explaining the narration in question, I have also presented another, now bring the scholars that have a divergent view, lets look at their reasoning. And yes some Muslims may not believe this, just have you have done here, but that is not comparable to an Islamic authority.

With regards to scientists confusion, it was also reported in my initial article I quoted, the fact that yawning is the least understood human behavior clearly shows they are confused. Perhaps in the future, they may have a break through, but for now, it is elusive.

tintingz:

Don't quote me wrong, from what you posted it says people that think of yawning will yawn withing some minutes which you relate to satan whispering and I gave example of urine, thinking of urinating when you don't feel like will bring the feeling of urinating. This is mental.

Another example, when you see someone eating and tongue licking with passion you will also feel the urge to eat.

This is the scope coca-cola and co do for thier commercials, you will see someone drinking soft drinkl with passion.

^^^ Who won't feel the urge to drink cold soft drink after seeing this pic.

No matter how you think about urine, or see someone else urinating, you would not want to urinate, except of course, you ought to go urinate yourself. If you do not have empirical evidence that a human behavior is contagious, you cannot just say it is.

Finally, here is a counter to the thermoregulation hypothesis (theory)

"Gallup also accuses us of having ignored evidence for his thermoregulation hypothesis. However, the experimental studies published by his group at the time we published our review reported only changes in brain temperature as triggers of yawns and provided no evidence for a brain cooling effect. After the appearance of our review, Gallup’s group published a new study measuring cortical temperature with implanted thermo coupled probes in rats which showed an increase of∼ 0.2◦C in brain temperature starting about 1min before yawns and stretches, which then starts to decrease again about 20–40s after the onset of yawns and stretches (Shoup-Knox et al., 2010). This is the first study that provides direct evidence for an association between brain temperature and yawning. However, the question remains whether this association is causal, i.e., whether the decrease in brain temperature is produced by the yawns as such. The observation that the temperature decrease after yawning was similar as after stretching suggests that the respiratory component of yawns (inflow of cool air) does not play a significant role. What remains is an increase in blood flow associated with yawns and stretches. However, the increase in cerebral blood flow which is supposed to cool down the brain according to the thermoregulation hypothesis occurs within a few seconds after the yawns. Conversely, the brain continued to warm up with the same speed as before until ∼ 20–40s after the yawns and stretches of the observed rats. Even if we allow for a certain delay in venous blood drain and thermal convection, this time difference appears to be too large. The thermometer seems to have been placed close to the dura and therefore should have rapidly captured a blood flow induced temperature change. Hence, as (Shoup-Knox et al., 2010) discuss in their article, the observed variation in brain temperature associated with yawns is probably mediated by concomitant thermoregulatory brain processes and not caused by the yawns themselves as would have been predicted by the thermoregulation hypothesis (Gallup and Gallup,2008). Moreover (Elo, in press), has recently shown for humans that even small yawn-induced decreases of temperature (Gallup and Gallup, 2010) are physically impossible as long as there is no massive sweating associated with the yawning. Despite the criticisms of Gallup, we also keep insisting that the design of his earlier studies exploring temperature as a trigger of yawns did not include recordings of physiological parameters such as brain temperature and vigilance. It is therefore impossible to exclude confounding effects in these studies."

Ref: A.G. Guggisberg et al. (2011). Why do we yawn? The importance of evidence for specific yawn-induced effects. Neuroscience and Biobehavioral Reviews 35: 1302–1304

tintingz:
Does yawning take 10min? If the people around him looked at him before or after the picture was snapped one or two person will be caught looking at the man yawning but from the picture and argument the people didn't pay attention to the man only the photographer, The message in the picture is an illustration of the man yawning unconsciously.

I was only trying to correct your initial comment, stating no one looked is false as there is someone who indeed was looking and who eventually took the picture. Whether he is a professional illustrator is irrelevant.

tintingz:

Thank God you said anybody can fake a yawn, which I've stated in my previous posts.

So it apparently shows that the man may have fake the yawn and the photographer took the picture as an illustration on a magazine or article.

Yes it is possible the man in the picture may be faking it.

tintingz:

Satan enters our mouth when we yawn is rational/logical? Please tell me something else.

Its like a popular urban legend for kids, if your candy or biscuits falls on the floor satan has licked it, you're not to pick it and eat it. This is to train kids to be hygienic.

Now compare them.

How do we believe that a statement is rational or logical? Is it based on whims, or based on reason, reality and fact?! Kids know not what is beneficial nor what is harmful. Depending on the cultural or religious background, adults use names and things that are scary to help children navigate their choices or teach, the reality is that such societies believe in satan being the custodian of all forms of evil, including ill health, fact is that when children pick their candy or biscuit from the floor, they get ill, and the reasoning being to protect their children from getting ill, so such statement therefore is rational. The statement gets the needed result, it works!

tintingz:

Can't there be another way of saying yawning out loud and not covering your mouth is improper rather than "yawning is from Satan" something a rational person will call myth.

Satan might be entering your mouth when you yawn not my mouth.

Even shia Muslims find it ridiculous.

That you do not believe in the existence of something doesn't make the thing to be false or irrational. Some do not believe in Allah (SWT) and claim they are rational and those who do are irrational. They also cling on to clues from "science" even when scientist are themselves confused! This is basically what the author is talking about, you cannot refute that "yawning comes from satan" as explained by Islamic scholars, you say it is irrational, because you do not like it, and you are so quick to believe a western ideology (science) with no evidence! Because it conforms to what you think makes sense...

tintingz:

At least science gave some clues why and reason we yawn, even if it is not yet concluded.

The clues you allude to, some of them are also what the Islamic scholars used in explaining the narration. i.e Tiredness, drowsiness, fatigue, laziness, fullness of the stomach etc. It is what everyone can observe when we yawn...The physiological benefit, i.e benefit to our body remains elusive!

tintingz:

In Islam there are also different opinions from scholars from different sects. Not everyone believe yawning is from Satan or Satan enters people's mouth.

You may provide your evidences of difference of opinion of Islamic scholars...let us see what was their reasoning...

tintingz:

Yawning is contagious YES, even by thinking it. How does that relate to Satan whispering. Haba! This has to with mental. Thinking of urinating even though you don't feel like urinating, within some minutes you feel like urinating.

If Satan is whispering to you fine, as for me I've not hear any whispering of Satan.

Have you read that urinating is contagious?! any evidence to back up your statement?! I thought you are a Muslim, did you forget surah An Nas?! Please get a copy of the Qur'an and read yourself.

tintingz:

OK, you're the rational person here.

Be more open-minded!

tintingz:
The photographer(Christ Steele) snapped the picture which he's doing his job as an illustrator, I'm talking about the people in the picture, no one was paying attention and the only argument is no one is paying attention until you provide the pictures that shows people looking at the man yawning.

And the man yawn unconsciously even looking at the expression on his face, the article(new yorker) you got the picture from said people yawn unconsciously.

First and foremost, your statement is; “no one looked at him because it is none of their business”, but I showed you the photographer looked, then all of a sudden, the photographer is just doing his job, as if a photographer is nobody, like he did not look at him, he just snapped the picture just for snapping sake. I need not provide any proof, the picture alone is adequate, at least, the person that took the picture did look at him and it was his business...

Secondly, from the picture, it is highly plausible that there are more people than what was captured. Thirdly, it is a still picture in which the reality can be X,Y,Z…It is highly possible that people around him might pay attention to him before or after the picture was taken. The above are some of the perspectives in which you have failed to put into reason before your comment.

How can you possibly know that the yawn was unconscious?! Anyone can fake a yawn, because you yawn unconsciously doesn’t guarantee that every yawn you see is unconscious. It is plausible that the man in the picture might be faking it…

All what I am trying to point out to you is the fact that being rational/logical requires a lot more than just following your own line of thought and holding it as correct for everyone else.

tintingz:

OK, but yawning is from Satan, yes or no?

And must it be related to shaitan?

It is understandable to you and your fellows.

Yes, according to the narration, yawning is from Shaitan, what this means is therefore explained by Islamic scholars, but you do not care about the explanation, because your thought process is parochial! You focus only on “yawning is from shaitan”, any other thing is irrelevant, and hence it is irrational…I even pointed out the etiquettes inherent in the narrations to help you understand that yawning is not prohibited in Islam, nor is it considered a sin or bad in itself, but you should suppress it as much as you can, cover your mouth and not make a loud noise like a gorilla, because the shaitan (la) who is not physical by the way, likes it, laughs at you especially when you do it so irresponsibly and make loud noises, or an avenue for shaitan to enter inside you!

Except you are not a Muslim, shaitan (la), has a role to play in our lives, and Allah (SWT) in his divine wisdom gave shaitan (la), some powers. If something is attributed to shaitan in Islam, then there is a reason behind this, and in most cases it is spiritual. You should know there is a limit to rationalizing spiritual issues…

tintingz:

Did Quran even mention "yawning is from Satan"?

Allah created sneezing, yawning, coughing, belching all these are beneficial to us.

Is there any evidence in the Quran that says yawning is from Satan?

What about the hadith that said when you yawn Satan enter your mouth? Haba!
Something that we do unconsciously many times.

Anything that's related to Satan is bad and sinful, so when we yawn we're sinning and consuming devil.

You have not provided any proof except stating the obvious; even science is “confused” as to the benefit of yawning, or what really causes it. And you’ve continued to make the same mistake; even shaitan is created by Allah (SWT). As already stated above, the hadith is not saying shaitan created yawning.

As you may have read also in the article I quoted from, yawning is contagious, even writing about yawning can make you yawn, shaitan (la) is said to whisper to the “hearts” of men, especially when carrying out obligatory spiritual responsibilities Allah (SWT) placed on us, what if the hadith was in reference to how shaitan would whisper to us and urge us to yawn so as to look funny and he laughs is head off, or just to make you feel lazy and weak so you do not observe your prayers on time or lose concentration during salah or other religious activities or carry them out with lethargy?! Or you do not believe shaitan does that too i.e whisper?!

“We also yawn when we so much as think about yawning: in one of Provine’s studies, eighty-eight per cent (88%) of people who were instructed to think of yawns yawned themselves within thirty minutes. We yawn when we read about it. “One reason my enthusiasm for studying contagion diminished is because everything causes yawning,” Provine says.” (ibid.)

Lastly, I appreciate the fact that you want to be rational and scrutinize issues accurately to arrive at logical conclusions, but I’m sorry to say, you do have challenges with respect to knowledge in tackling some of these issues, both islamic, and scientific.

tintingz:
Yawning like that is improper I've stated that earlier and besides no one looked at him because it is non of thier business.

You can see he unconsciously yawn.

Of course it is improper, no one looked at him?! who snapped the picture?! You cannot make such conclusion that no one is paying attention to him based on a picture! Again nothing suggests that he did that unconsciously, don't make hasty conclusions from incomplete information, it is irrational!

tintingz:

"Yawning is from Satan" is ridiculous.

It is ridiculous to you because you do not have proper understanding of the narration(s).

tintingz:

No where I said sneezing is bad, should we be praying to have catarrh since Allah like us sneezing?

I didn't say you said sneezing is bad, I only asked if you did not do your research with regards to sneezing being beneficial. Thus, when we sneeze, the Prophet (SAW) instructed us to be grateful and praise Allah (SWT), which Allah (SWT) loves! So the statement that Allah (SWT) likes sneezing rather than yawning is understandable. To your question, a Muslim do not pray for sickness or any form of adversities, even though there is reward coming with such problems...

tintingz:

Both sneezing and yawning are Allah blessing.

Perhaps share the Quranic verse or hadith that supports this your assertion.

tintingz:

So the Hadith is not an assumption? Who will even take this statement serious "yawning is from Satan".

A Muslim who believes in the divine message of the Qur'an and the Prophethood of Muhammad (SAW) would take the statement serious once such statement had been authenticated by scholars of repute. So mister, the hadith is not an assumption, only if you can prove that it is a fabricated hadith, then you can say anything you like about it.

tintingz:

Like have said science is progressing, there are clues why we yawn it is better than the Hadiths that said it is bad.

Between "yawning cool the brain and body" and "yawning is from Satan" which one is rational and which one is ridiculous and funny.

A rational person thinks and do research before accepting an ideology.

So far, you have not provided any evidence that can disprove the hadith other than it is irrational, based on an assumption which cannot be substantiated...You clearly did not do any research with respect to the narration in question, you fail to even put into consideration, explanations from scholars stating that the narration does not mean that yawning emanates from shaitan, but rather he likes it, and no where is it stated that yawning is sinful! If you had done due diligence, you would have come across part of the narration that states, "suppress it as much as you can" and "cover your mouth" and [b]"do not make loud noise" [/b]all indicative of proper manners which Islam teaches and encourages. The aspect of the shaitan (la) is largely part of the unseen, but we believe what the Prophet (SAW) tells us about the unseen, it is part of having faith! Have you done your research and thinking about resurrection?! is it rational?! What about having book of deeds, or about two angels by our sides, writing down our actions?!

tintingz:
Oga, how many people do you see yawning loud like hungry gorilla?

Everybody knows its not proper to yawn loud and not cover your mouth, coughing and belching is also part of it. My argument is about yawning not the manners behind yawning, is it bad to yawn since it is from Satan?
And why did Allah prefer us sneezing even though I might be allergy or have catarrh.

Allah like us sneezing, Satan like us yawning, how funny it sound.

This above image as no sound, but the yawn looks quite improper in the gathering, plus he looks absolutely ridiculous!

You should know the Prophet (SAW) was reported to have said that he was sent by Allah (SWT) to perfect character or proper manners. That is why narrations about sneezing and yawning are not ridiculous, but there are wisdom behind them, some may not be properly understood by us, but as Muslims, we believe in the divine wisdom and follow the teachings of his Prophet (SAW).

I thought you would have also researched on sneezing... Did science not tell you it is beneficial to your body when you sneeze, even if you do have catarrh?! Well the Prophet (SAW) thought us to praise Allah (SWT) after we sneeze, do you not know Allah (SWT) likes it when we praise Him and show gratitude for His blessings?!

tintingz:

Science are progressing, before we don't know why we yawn now there are clues and reasons why we yawn which you just quoted, cooling the brain and body which is healthy and not something from Satan.

And lastly, the psychologist didn't say there are no evidence, the thing is science are still progressing, there are other scientific research concerning yawning.

Did you read what I quoted at all?! The evidences are decidedly mixed! The reason why another said, the reason behind yawning is least understood! I would say, the theory is just an assumption, until it is properly substantiated, you cannot use it as you were using it on this thread...

You holding on to such assumptions, and bandying it as a fact clearly depicts the tendencies of modernist to display irrationality when it concerns western civilization as described by the author! You said the hadith about yawning is funny (irrational) even with explanations, but you hold as true the theory on yawning by a psychologist with unsubstantiated evidence...

tintingz:
Sino,

You said, Yawning in front of an elder or someone in position of authority is not proper? Abeg who gave that law?

LOL, you are very funny, I didn't say there is a law against yawning in front of elders or an authority, rather I said it is not proper, it would be regarded as a faux pas, especially if it is loud. why not try such in a class with a strict lecturer or if you are working, with your boss, or with your parents or an elderly individual when you are being advised or reprimanded.

I should also point it out to you that "science", still does not know why we yawn, according to what I have read so far, the issue of cooling the brain is not substantiated!

"As recently as 2011, the psychologist Gordon Gallup argued that the yawn is a cooling mechanism for the brain and the body. But the evidence for those theories has been decidedly mixed, and, for now, the physiological function of the yawn remains elusive. As Provine puts it, “Yawning may have the dubious distinction of being the least understood, common human behavior.” "
Source

If you do have convincing evidences, please provide, thanks!

tintingz:
I've being reading religious articles for long, this is not my first time, I know how they construct their write ups.

The author was trying not to be bias but he end up being bias and sentimental which I've pointed out

No you don't, with how you had accused the author wrongly of claiming that rationality, or being modern is only based on western ideology! It is quite apparent you have a prejudiced view with regards to religious (Islamic) articles. Your initial comment on this thread reeks of irrationality and close-mindedness.

tintingz:

- Can someone control the urge NOT to yawn?

To some extent YES!

tintingz:

- Can humans do without yawing?

Islam or the hadith did not say yawning is prohibited, if you had made proper research, you would have read about suppressing it, and covering of the mouth.

tintingz:

- Why did Allah design yawning to we humans if Allah like/prefer us(humans) sneezing?

Allah (SWT) created everything, even if He (SWT) does not like some of them, including our behaviours. Allah (SWT) designed that we are prone to sin, but Allah (SWT) does not like sin, but Allah (SWT) is oft-forgiving most merciful!

tintingz:

Since yawning is from Satan, is it bad to yawn, yes or no?

I have explained what is meant by yawning being from shaytan (la), you have failed to see things differently except through your preconceived understanding of the narrations. As I have said above, Islam or the hadith did not say yawning is prohibited!

@tintingz, let me assist you in understanding the OP's perspective,

"I’ve always urged Muslims to be skeptical, even of their own beliefs, in order that they can reach certainty and depart from blindly following their parents religion and culture. But unfortunately there is another culture that influences some Muslims and is blindly followed by many of them due to their inability to detach themselves from their society and time and look at the world from a rational and detached perspective – the culture of Western Civilisation."

The above quote easily explains the theme of the whole write-up, the author is not against being rational, but the fact that some "modern" Muslims who happen to be immersed in western culture, claim rationality based on western civilization...Hence, they happen to be quite incapable of refuting fundamentals of Islam rationally, but dismiss these fundamentals without any logical or rational arguments, they in-turn blindly follow the western civilization or culture.

You brought the example of satan and yawning, you claim it doesn't make sense, because you have read about the cause of yawning scientifically, but you fail to read about the scholarly explanation with regards to the hadith(s) in question. There are explanations to what this narration(s) means, the fact that we mostly yawn when we are tired, drowsy, hungry, or when full (which may result to being drowsy and lazy), has implications especially with regards to our religious activities, for example, when praying, and you keep yawning, you lose concentration, you break your recitation or dhikr, you feel tired, lazy or hungry...Imagine you praying to Allah (SWT) and then yawn with a loud noise?! would it look like you are serious with your prayer?! Even in front of an elder or a person in position of authority, it is not proper. It is said that the narration does not mean yawning is caused by shaitan directly (la), but shaitan loves it when you do....The issue about yawning can be categorize under Islamic etiquette, which definitely, the shaitan would want you to flout!

Islam is a religion of faith and knowledge, you need to know your limits... You would get into trouble if you lack the appropriate knowledge, and if you lack faith, you are doomed!

Indeed, the intent of the shari'ah was never to be harsh or barbaric like it is always being portrayed, even by Muslims. I think Muslims need to be re-orientated on the role of the shari'ah, and how it is meant to be applied. If the Islamic Jurists were always looking for ambiguity in order not to deliver the hudud, then one needs to wonder the kind of mindset whereby some ignorant Muslims go on to carry out killings (murder) in the name of following the shari'ah law...

A very brilliant article on the current predicament of the Muslim Ummah, although the author tried to focus on modernists, I'll say it is also applicable to all, we have lost the plot as Muslims, while the modernist or "rationalist" have their skepticism about the traditional and fundamentals of Islam, those of us who claim fundamentalism, and holding on to the traditional teachings of the religion seem only to be paying lip service, we haven't been able to exemplify the earliest Muslims who happened to be pioneers of intellectual advancement in the world today. Paraphrasing Prof. Bidmus in one of his recent Khutbah at Unilag, he said, present day Muslim scholars are good at researching the medieval scholars who invented this and that and boasting about these past achievements, but what are we doing to also be like them and make great impact in our societies, he later stated that what helped these scholars was holding on strongly to the legacy of the Prophet (SAW) which is Education.

Most of us are not educated, I mean we are not "Islamically" educated, even in western education, we also fail woefully, no wonder we are were we are in the world today.

Solution? We need to seek spirituality first, not do's and don'ts, we need to know Allah (SWT) i.e "Tawheed"! The author talked about "Ihsan", which he said the earlier Muslims used not only in salah and other religious activities, but also in helping their societies, and knowing/learning about Ihsan, is part of learning Tawheed!

May Allah assist us in attaining the true Islamic teachings, that which helped the earlier Muslims achieve grate fit in the world. Ameen.

tintingz:
# If you belive polyandry doesn't have benefit to humanity then same question should be asked on polygyny, if you read about polyandry you will see many reasons polyandry serves or benefit in some society, e.g shortage and absent of men, farming, hunting etc. The same way polygyny has it own benefits.

Polygyny has the backing of evolution of man, I had hinted about the propagation of genes as one of the benefits, men do not get pregnant, thus do not require to wait a long period of time before engaging in mating so as to keep propagating his gene, in fact, he can mate with several females, and get them all pregnant. That alone suffices. Other benefits, are secondary. On the other hand, polyandry has no such benefit. Once a female is pregnant, she has to wait to give birth, wean the baby, before she can proceed to reproduce again. Do you know how long it would take humans to populate the world if polyandry was widely practiced like polygyny?! Nature had clearly supported polygyny from the onset!

tintingz:

You talked about walking naked in the street, you should know that walking naked was a thing that early men did and it is a practice in some cultures especially in Africa. The early men started covering due to climate changes and other reasons, I don't know about having sex in public. So walking naked can be said to be natural thing in evolutionary history until humans started wearing clothes as a practice.

That is what I am saying, primitive early men are quite distinct from us, we evolved to the most upright form we could be, but if you think there is no problem with people wanting to go back to those primitive tendencies, then what is this higher animals, intelligent creature noise all about?! Was nature stupid to make us evolve to these level of awareness and understanding?! Mind you, our nature, which makes us not have body hair like primates should easily explain to you that it is in our nature to cover up, be it as a result of migration to colder climate, and the wisdom to protect ourselves from different forms of harsh climate, isn't nature about survival of the fittest? Did we shed our hair only to expose ourselves to more dangers that could wipe us out?!

tintingz:

# Actually what science believe was that humans natural selection was a result of opportunity, chance and it is a psychological mechanism or adaption of the human brain/mind base on environment and society. That is why the practice of monogamy, polygamy differ from each society. So male dominant behavior and female behavior was a result of psychological adaption.

Call it psychological adaptation, it is still nature at work. I happen to come across a journal that analyzed those societies that practiced polyandry, the fact remains that those societies were practicing a form of marriage which was mostly prearranged by the elders, who happened to be males. It was never the desire of the women to marry more than one husband, in fact there are serious problems that arise from these form of union on the women. Sometimes, the wife would elope with the most favorite husband, not to mention the fact that the elder male in such unions may be the sole individual with conjugation rights...below is an interesting view about polyandry as practiced in virtually all the human culture that practice it:

"[Polyandry] creates special problems for and pressures on the wife, .they are obliged to treat all the men more or less equally and to try to prevent accusations of favoritism and the consequent jealousy and anger which unequal treatment brings. Nevertheless, women invariably develop preferences. (Levine, 1981a:113)"

Alan Trevithick (1997). On a Panhuman Preference For Monandry: Is Polyandry an Exception? J. of Comparative Family Studies. 28(3), 154-181

tintingz:

# If you haven't seen the fact benefit of polyandry from what scientists have provided why not show me the benefit of polygamy(polygyny) in this modern era?
All what you have presented about polyandry are suggestions.

Well, I am not a proponent of polygyny, even religiously, I do have my reservations on the interpretation commonly bandied about, still I believe it has it's place in our modern society, especially with respect to the numbers of widows and divorcees.

tintingz:

# Do you support men having multiple sexual mates?

I do not! In recent times, we have been able to see the adverse effect of such tendencies, the spread of AIDS and other STIs. I believe fidelity is one of our natural adaptive feature to preserve our dignity, and status as higher animals as well as our society, i had also pointed out that such behaviour is purely animalistic, regardless of the gender.

tintingz:

# Cannibalism is in nature true and human can still be cannibalism, the early men discovered that roasting fish and meat is sweeter than eating it raw, this is a psychological adaption like I stated above.
The funniest thing is that we still eat meat and fish, the different is we cooked it. That's why we have some people that call themselves vegetarian.

Please do not confuse cannibalism and carnivorous form of feeding, even though we can say "eating meat, is eating meat", I am more particular about the man eating the flesh and internal organs of another man aspect that is captured in the definition of cannibalism. So is it human nature to be cannibals?!

@Empiree, many thanks for the excerpts, not until recently that research on polyandry is being giving much attention, well i presume it is as a result of these feminism chants and cries, you know, equality chants, if a man can do it, a woman can too, as well as the prevalence of promiscuity in the society. Be that as it may, the evidences relied upon, especially for non-human studies are just mere assumptions and speculation about supposed genetic benefits and fitness, No empirical facts! I stand to be corrected though.