@lanrexlan and Empiree, the following came to me while devouring Sallah meat with cashew nuts and a vitamin C drink

Eid days

Eid days are like diamonds in the sunlight
Each day with a million precious sparkles
Each year a different sparkling delight

We merry, we rejoice, we celebrate
With worship and praise, we reflect
Ibrahim, our father in faith, we emulate

My heart is at Hajj
I long to stand on mount Arafah
Wherein millions of faithful converge

Eidu-l-Adha, a festivity of sacrifice
With piety in heart, hoping with each strand of hair
Forgiveness, and a home in paradise.

Sino

Eid Mubarak to you all!

Newnas:


Nobody is a fan of garbage shia books here. Well maybe your Sufi friend!

Let's Read (again!) :

A number of our companions, from Sahl b. Ziyad, from Muhammad b. Isa, from Yunus b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Hilal, who said: "Abu Abdullah (as) ordered me to buy an "izar" (lower garment) for him." So I said to him: "I could not get but a large one." So Imam (as) said: "Cut from it and stitch it." Imam (as) further continued: "Indeed my father had said: Whatever extends beyond the ankles is in the fire."

I can't believe any reasonable student of knowledge will ever consider this kind of chain for research. The weakness is super obvious.

Interestingly and unsurprisingly, Mr Majlisi the shia reverend of Hadith calls it RELIABLE.

Haba!

AlBaqir warned me never to quote narrations from shi'a sources without the chain and grading, as he proudly presents such from the ahlu sunnah's collections, especially when the narration seems to favour his arguments. ..So i decided to take his warning seriously and then tried to get my hands on authentic narrations with their chains. Alas! What i found was and is scandalous! Well to be fair, their earliest scholars didn't care about the isnad, but still, what was reported in some of these narrations believed to be authentic by these scholars are "CRAZY". This has been a major challenge for the modern day shi'ah, so they would rather spend a whole lifetime finding faults in sunni collections and still quote from them trying to prove their beliefs which cannot be found in the Quran.

The modern day proselytizproselytizing shi'a has been equipped to bypass the above mentioned challenge by stating this anthem :"any narration that goes against the Qur'an is rejected". Unfortunately for them, this atempt to safe face, portends more problems, part of which is the fact that their earliest scholars were clueless as to this method of authenticating narrations which they compiled and acted upon as being true, also, how do they even use this method to check narrations with different scenarios and issues, for example, a narration having a donkey in the isnad talks about another donkey committing suicide, I wonder how they apply this method on this narration to determine its authenticity!

I can go on and on, but any reasonable person would know that something is not right with how the shi'ah have been changing what is believed to be true and authentic and what is not. If we analyse this drastic change, we can easily say that the earliest shi'a were misguided, and made lots of mistakes, that wouldn't fly, because the Imams were much closer to them unlike these modern day shi'a whose imam is absent to guide them. This is a real dilemma! Well I'llleave that for the shi'a to sort out themselves. ..

May Allah make us see the truth, accept it and work with it ameen.

TyHadebimpe:


Judge Me Not!

Little do you know about me
A past I really do have
A future seeking the mercy of Allah
For my heart has gone through the cleansing process
And if Allah could forgive
Then who are you to call me a hypocrite?

For all we know
Allah is the best of judge
He alone knows the unknown
You think yourself sincere?
But ignore the teachings of the prophet
Correct me lightly
Do dawah with sincerity
Abuse me not
For I might be moving slowly
Or not threading ur path
But we're Muslims
And one thing is certain
You are not my creator!

Our voices shall be heard!

Loud and clear yet mild

Reverberating far and wide

Aren't we ordinary people?

With our unique faults and flaws?

We strive, we fall

We repent and then stand tall

This path of ours is meant for all

But some wouldn't agree after all

We submit to Allah in all

To Him shall be our total recall

Assalam alaykum sister, jazakumullahu khayran for sharing your poem with us, we look forward to reading more...

lanrexlan:
"What a wonderful world this would be, if we could open our eyes and see"--Zain Bhikha

Only if people will remove the veil of sectarianism, tribalism, racism, injustice, hatred et al and spread peace and love on earth, wallah the world be a better place. May Allah assists us


Erm, brother which kind pen you dey look since na? You should pen something for Eid o

You just have to quote Zain Bhikha ehn?! one of my favourite nasheed there.

I wish things were different in the world, but we must face reality, know your limit, and try spread peace and love in your own little way.

Bro, na special pen o, na where inspiration dey come from be that

AlBaqir:


Hypocrisy! Since when you (and your brothers) became fan of Shi'i teachings?! To you of all people Shi'i ahadith is garbage that doesn't concern you. Should I quote you?

#Please give me a break.

Hypocrisy?!

First I only asked that you present the proper understanding of the above-mentioned narrations found in your book. I would be proud to quote the Qur'an, authentic narrations and righteous and respectable scholars to explain the proper understanding of any issue to anyone without stress, I wonder why you get frustrated when I ask/tell you to quote from your books or your scholars...

Secondly, if you quote me, I would quote your scholars who had stated directly and indirectly that your books are filled with, for lack of better presentation by you, GARBAGE!

Thank you!

lanrexlan:
That's an agbo faah. Na Kuuru

This your Kuuru looks funny o! Yet to be found in this our locality...It looks scary and yummy, the amount of meat can only be imagined...

AlBaqir:


Your opposition is noted @underlined. However you are an individual out of many viewing this thread. Only you comment that this thread is not needed to be open at all whereas others welcome it. Obviously you are not being selfish, you just want to oppose a Shi'a. That's an obsession.

Fi amanillah.

Please tell us why you opened this thread?! A shi'ah quoting narrations from sunni books to tell us that how we the sunni inteprete the narrations found in our own books is wrong (okay just part of the people of sunnah)?! Because you care right?! I laugh in persian! Why not present the proper understanding from shi'ah books, especially with respect to the narrations I just presented from your Shi'a book!

I present facts, if you are too scared to address them, no problem, I understand...

AlBaqir:
^Thanks for your contributions. It obviously doesn't change anything.

It doesn't change anything except that it shows there happens to be no reason for you to start this thread in the first instance, and the unjustified accusation of some people (salafi/wahabi) of being mechanical and applying fear-striking interpretation and practice. Pride is something you don't joke with as a Muslim, it is what made iblis what he is today! And the narrations found in your books made it even scarier, especially this part: "Beware not to let hang down the izar or the shirt, for indeed that is from arrogance and Allah (swt) does not like arrogance."...

RABIUSHILE04:
Sino, jazakumullaahu khayran.. Dis shia guy, and albaqir want to put out d light of allaah, which is impossible. They(shias) r one of d worst creatures I know..HYPOCRITES and worse dan our nasara brothers. May allaah grant u goodness with ur post akhee. Don't be discouraged, folks read d posts even if dem no comment.

Wa Iyyakum brother, may Allah (SWT) continue to guide us on the straight path of Islam Ameen.

I sometimes wonder how AlBaqir would just want to quote from our books and forget his own books. You are a shi’ah, be proud of your sect and quote your books!

Anyways, I do not have any problem with your OP, but I just want to help you quote your own books, especially when you have tried to demonize the ways of the salafis/wahabis by stating the below:

“So, the literal, mechanical and fear-striking interpretation and practice of the opening two hadiths are far from the intent and wisdom of the hadith.”

Let us read:

A number of our companions, from Sahl b. Ziyad, from Muhammad b. Isa, from Yunus b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Ya'qub, from Abdullah b. Hilal, who said: "Abu Abdullah (as) ordered me to buy an "izar" (lower garment) for him." So I said to him: "I could not get but a large one." So Imam (as) said: "Cut from it and stitch it." Imam (as) further continued: "Indeed my father had said: Whatever extends beyond the ankles is in the fire."


Muhammad b. Yahya, from Ahmad b. Muhammad, from ibn Fudal, from Yunus b. Ya'qub narrated similar to it.

Grading:

Baqir Majlisi (Miratul Uqul, Volume 22, Page 337) : Muwaththaq (Reliable, the second chain)


Ali b. Ibrahim, from his father, from ibn Mahboob, from Hisham b. Salim, from abi Baseer, from abi Ja'far (as), that the Prophet (pbuh) bequeathed a man from the tribe of Bani Tamim, so he (pbuh) said to him: "Beware not to let hang down the izar or the shirt, for indeed that is from arrogance and Allah (swt) does not like arrogance."

Grading:

Baqir Majlisi (Miratul Uqul, Volume 22, Page 338) : Hasan (good)
Bahboodi (Sahih al Kafi, Volume 3, Page 209): Sahih (authentic)
Ayatullah Hadi al Najafi (Mausu'ah ahadith ahlulbait, Volume 10 Page 16): Sahih (authentic)

Source

While I do believe that someone putting on a nisfu saq might fall into pride by seeing others who do not as lesser Muslims than him, it is quite rare, just as it is rare also to see someone who drags his cloths on the floor to do so out of humility and fear of Allah (SWT), in fact, I think it is impossible! The only excuse would be, it is not intentional!

^^^Brilliant brother mine, Brilliant! This is what we need to be preaching,in peace and not in pieces!

Erm, I'm still looking for my pen o...

^^^Yada Yada Yada! same old BS, When Allah describes Himself Jalla Jallaluhu as the most merciful, and still destroys the disbelievers, both women and children, what would the above funny guy say?! or when the disbelievers ask why they would be thrown into hell for eternity after living in the world just for some years, do we now deny these facts in the Qur'an?! If you don't know, and not willing to study and do proper research, then just shut up! I dislike this kind of Muslim apologetics, they are only trying to impress some people (especially their pay-masters) and not address issues appropriately! Na today?! Bros e don tey!

#NEXT

Jazakillah khayran @Slitz, another beautiful piece with a profound message...I have tried to make use of istikhara for so many decision making, and I have never been disappointed, Alhamdulilah, We need to trust in Allah's will more than our desires and wishes...I liked the fact that you also paint a picture of not giving up with the following lines:

Hands still raised,
tongues still praise,
hearts still pray.
The unfolding actions would unveil,
what istikhara really says.


Ma Sha Allah!

AlBaqir:


# First, you seem to have doubted the point I made that according to your hadith Nabi was affected to the extent that he knew not what he was doing. This underlined statement made you pose the challenge. I have given you the hadith. I expect you to shut your mouth yet as usual you are trying to dribble pass your ignorance.

This is funny, I had already gone through tafsir, islamqa and other sites before requesting the narration from you. I addressed the narration you brought and what it contained. Your reckless use of lost his senses and the other hyperboles you wanted to use to make a mountain out of a molehill. Please don’t flatter yourself mate!

AlBaqir:

# Second, the incidence did not happen for just "one day" faah as you try again to dribble it @underline. Even as Sahih Bukhari documents it @second underline i.e "One day", suggest after a long period of time.

Here is another ridiculous attempt to make sense, I only quoted what was in the narration, I didn’t even make any reference to how long the Prophet (SAW) was affected by the magic. I tire for you o, is this desperation or what?

AlBaqir:

Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal gives a bit better report:

Zayd ibn Arqam said: The Prophet (saw) was bewitched by a man from the Jews, so he suffered from this a number of days then Jibra'eel (a.s) came and said: "A man from the Jews bewitched you, he tied a knot and it is in the well of so and so." So Muhammad (saw) sent Alee (a.s) to get it, and then he brought it and the Prophet (saw) untied it, he said: Then the Messenger of Allah (saw) stood up as if he was released from under fetter and chains. And he did not mention that Jew and he did not look into his face until he died.

Source: Ahmad ibn Hanbal. Vol. 32, Pg. # 14, H. # 19267.

# Invariably shaitan and his troops caused Nabi with their magic whereby he doesn't know what he was doing FOR DAYS! Was his mission shut down temporarily? Obviously it was. Despite all the permission granted to shaitan, he never had access to Nabi Ayub's senses, heart and mind. And of course, shaitan and his troops can never even stand Umar's voice let alone his person. Muhammad lórogo lowo yin.

# What you can simply never stomach is the way we rubbish your will fabricated hadith.

You that cannot differentiate between who created what and lack proper understanding of Qur’an and tafsir. Wonders shall never end! Not to even mention how you kept avoiding how your infallible Imams were poisoned to death, don't even let me go into the lies presented as truth in your books about these Imams, their taqqiya, and you want us to believe they have full knowledge of everything and infallible?! Please go back and read the above knowledge and wisdom from reputable scholars as posted on islamqa.

AlBaqir:

# You obviously failed to read the lines. I said your ahadith on this issue are contradictory. As you can see above in Musnad Ahmad, the knot were brought out.

You brought a narration which I addressed, if I wanted to go into reconciling the supposed contradictions, I would have mentioned it in my reply.

AlBaqir:

You see the magic has affected your eyes. You missed the word "usually" in my statements. As I have clarify with evidence, magic only affect brain and eyes. If you can ever prove otherwise, the floor is yours.

I have addressed this above, go and read the meaning of black magic and responses posted above.

AlBaqir:

# No Na my father's comb and hair. Go and read your sirah on this. Or you need help?

# Yes again who sold out Nabi's comb and hair which was used to bewitched him, according to your hadith?

Help me solve this problem because since Allah exposed those two wives, I never trusted her for once:

Imam Bukhari documents:

Book: Menstrual Periods

Chapter: The washing of the husband's head and the combing of his hair by a menstruating wife

Narrated `Aisha:

While in menses, I used to comb the hair of Allah's Messenger (s)

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 295
In-book reference : Book 6, Hadith 2
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 1, Book 6, Hadith 294
http://www.sunnah.com/bukhari/6/

Bros, are you afraid to post the evidences ni?! Tell us now, since you know whose comb it is, and the one who sold the comb to the magician, please provide your proofs or are you a liar and a disbeliever?!

I wonder what the above quoted narration as to do with anything, this is how you bring suspicions, assumptions and cook up stories to sell your lies, unsubstantiated allegations against the mother of the believers. You would never remember the Qur'anic verse that warns against this or the hadiths, you even talk of trust, who are you?! If the Prophet (SAW), and the companions , even Ali (RA) and generality of believing men and women give their love, respect and trust to Aisha (RA) as well as other beloved mothers of the believers, who are you and your shi'a?! Continue in the path you have chosen for yourself, you shall meet with your deeds very soon, as we all would. And I thought you didn’t believe in the veracity of the hadith, how come you now trying so hard to prove whose comb it was and who sold the comb?!

AlBaqir:

Again the magic continue to bewitch your eyes. We put that comment as "side comment".

Still irrelevant!

AlBaqir:

This is a Sunni Tafsir of Surah Sad: 41:

1. (And make mention (O Muhammad) of Our bondman) mention to the disbelievers of Mecca the event of Our bondman (Job, when he cried) when he prayed (unto his Lord (saying): Lo! the devil doth afflict me) I am afflicted because You set Satan on me (with distress) toil and tiredness (and torment) trial and sickness.

http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=73&tSoraNo=38&tAyahNo=41&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2


2. Ibn Kathir in his Qisas al-Anbiya under the section of Nabi Ayub writes:

"...Iblis thus said to Allah, “If You deprive him of his wealth You will find that he will no longer mention Your name and his praying will stop.”

Allah told Iblis that Ayoub (A) was one of His most sincere devotees whose worship stemmed from his heart and had nothing to do with material gifts or favors granted to him. To prove His devotee’s depth of sincerity and patience, Allah allowed Iblis to do whatever he wished with Ayoub (A)’s wealth....

Allah granted Iblis his third request but placed a condition:

“I give you authority over his body but not over his soul, intellect, or heart, for in these places reside the knowledge of Me and My religion...."


http://www.iqrasense.com/islamic-history/lessons-learned-from-the-story-of-prophet-ayoub-job-a.html


NB: Observe how Allah protected Nabi Ayub: shaitan never had access to his intellect...yet your wicked hadith says black magic affected the intellect of Nabi Muhammad salallahu alayhi wa ahli to the extent that he knew not what he was doing. According to the tradition in Musnad of Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal, this "hallucinations of the brain" persisted for days (another hadith says six months). We wonder how he was guiding people when his senses was overpowered by shaitan and his troops.

All these information you have presented are not addressing the question I asked, perhaps you have also been bewitched lol!

Anyway, in response to the query with regards to the narration of magic on the Prophet (SAW), Islamqa presented the following:

Al-Haafiz Ibn Hajar (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

Al-Maazari said: The innovators rejected this hadeeth and claimed that it detracted from the status of Prophethood and cast aspersions upon it. They said: Everything that leads to that is false. And they said that accepting that meant that we could not be sure of the laws that he prescribed, because it is possible that he imagined that he was seeing Jibreel when he was not there, and that something had been revealed to him when nothing had been revealed. Al-Maazari said: All of this is to be rejected, because the evidence that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was truthful in what he conveyed from Allaah and that he was infallible in conveying it is well established. The miracles bear witness to his truthfulness and accepting something when there is evidence to the contrary is false. With regard to some worldly matters for which he was not sent and which have nothing to do with his message, then he was exposed to the same as all other human beings, such as sickness. It is not far-fetched to say that he could be made to imagine something with regard to worldly matters that was not true, whilst at the same time he was protected against such things with regard to matters of religion.

Some people said that what is meant by this hadeeth is that he (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) imagined that he had had intercourse with his wives when he had not done so. This is something that people frequently imagine in their dreams, so it is not far-fetched to say that he could have imagined that when he was awake.

I – Ibn Hajar – say: This is what is stated clearly in the report of Ibn ‘Uyaynah that is narrated by al-Bukhaari, which says: “until he thought that he had had intercourse with his wives when he had not done so.”

‘Iyaad said: Thus it is clear that the witchcraft prevailed over his body and physical faculties, not over his discernment and beliefs…

Al-Mahlab said: The protection of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) against the devils does not mean that they would not try to harm him. In al-Saheeh it is narrated that a devil wanted to spoil his prayer but Allaah protected him against him. The same applies to witchcraft; the harm that affected him did not have any impact on his conveying of the message, rather it was akin to any other kind of sickness that afflicted him, such as having difficulty in speaking or doing certain things, or experiencing illusions that did not last. Rather it passed and Allaah foiled the plots of the devils. End quote.

Fath al-Baari, 10/226, 227

Ibn al-Qayyim (may Allaah have mercy on him) said:

How the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was guided to treat the spell which Jews cast on him:

This has been denied by some people who said that this could not have happened to him, and they thought that it was a shortcoming and a fault. But it is not as they think, rather it comes under the heading of sickness and pain that befell him; it is a kind of illness which befell him just as he was also affected by poison – there is no difference between the two. It is proven in al-Saheehayn that ‘Aa’ishah (may Allaah be pleased with her) said: “The Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was bewitched until he thought that he had had intercourse with his wives when he had not done so, and that is the worst kind of witchcraft.” Al-Qaadi ‘Iyaad said: Witchcraft is a kind of sickness which happened to him like other kinds of sickness. That cannot be denied and it does not detract from his Prophethood.

With regard to his imagining that he had done something when he had not done it, that does not have any impact on his truthfulness, because of the evidence to that effect and the scholarly consensus that he was protected from that. Rather it was one of the matters of this world which are not the reason for which he was sent, and which are not the basis of his virtue and in which he was like all other human beings. It is not far-fetched to say that he might imagine some things that were not real, then things became clear to him later on, as indeed happened. End quote.

Zaad al-Ma’aad, 4/124

So it is clear that the hadeeth is saheeh, and that it does not detract from the status of Prophethood. Allaah, may He be glorified and exalted, protected His Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) and made him infallible before this spell was cast, during it and afterwards. The spell did no more than make the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) think that he had had intercourse with his wives when he had not done so; it had to do with a purely worldly matter, and had nothing to do with his conveying of the message at all. The words of the scholars quoted above are sufficient, and whoever wants to know more may refer to Fath al-Baari and Zaad al-Ma’aad.

And Allaah knows best.

Please read the above carefully and understand how knowledgeable and righteous Muslims address issues…

AlBaqir:

This is another day in sha Allah.
# O boy! I hate your "cut and join" argument.

Now it is "cut and join" no more "cut and paste"?!

AlBaqir:


# Dark evil magic is part of metaphysical sciences and it is originated by Shaitan. Islam believed it to be kufr and whoever uses it become kafir.

# Surah al-Baqarah: 102 that you mentioned clearly established at the beginning that it is satans who teaches black magic. Black magic, part of handiwork of shaitan, has been in existence since he was cast out from Allah's sight of mercy. The satans who use to teach magic at the reign of Nabi Sulaiman is just an example of their existence at different ages.

Bros, when black magic started is not important here, we are talking of a clear verse in the Qur’an. The verse clearly states that the devils were teaching people what was also revealed to the two Angels, Harut and Marut.

AlBaqir:

# However, about "angels" Harut and Marut, your Tafsirs never conclude who they really were ( check: the commentary of Yusuf Ali or visit: http://altafsir.com/Tafasir.asp?tMadhNo=0&tTafsirNo=74&tSoraNo=2&tAyahNo=102&tDisplay=yes&UserProfile=0&LanguageId=2


Some are of the opinions that the word "angel" was just used for them but in reality they were not angels. (For example: Iblis was never an angel yet Allah mentioned him literally as an "angel".) Your Tafsir allude that Ibn Abbas explained that Harut and Marut were sorcerers who lived in Babylon in the ancient Iraq. Of course, another opinion says that they might really be angels. Whichever way it is, your Tafsir conclude they were known to be "men of God" but Allah established them to be a trial for men who seek this science. It is now left for you to learn it either from them or from Shaitan. Again Islam forbid the use of Magic! If perchance a Muslim learn it, it is to know and expose the secret of the Magician.

LOL! When did you start reading tafsirs ehn?! How many of them did you read?! Funny how you are contradicting yourself, in one line you say our tafsir never conclude who they really were, then later you said: “Your tafsir conclude they were known to be “men of God”…”?! Bro, which is it?! Anyway, tafsirs would quote opinions of “ahlu tawil”, narrations that back their opinions, and draw a conclusion of the most accurate opinion, based on evidences and logical reasoning and analysis, including grammatical structure. As I have always said, I personally use tafsir Tabari, and this is the method used in it, so also with Tafsir Kabir of Imam Ar-Razi amongst others.

According to tafsir tabari, after bringing the opinions of the ahlu tawil, each opinion was dissected and the flaws in them were pointed out. The conclusion thereafter was that Harut and Marut were Angels from Allah (SWT), and they thought people magic, of which they warned that it was a fitna (trial/test), and they shouldn’t become disbelievers. Allah (SWT), the creator of everything, sent both good and evil down to mankind to test them with these two phenomena. He (SWT) commanded us to do the good and eschew evil, having knowledge of both good and evil equips the believer on always making the right choices, and abiding by the divine guidelines. Some people may ask how could Allah (SWT) send Angels to teach magic? The simple answer is, teaching people about it is not sin, but making use of the knowledge to harm people and cause disbelieve is what is sinful and forbidden in Islam. If a police officer teaches people how armed robbers operate, and then warns people to take note and not be caught unawares or use the knowledge to become armed robbers themselves, would we say the police officer had done something wrong?!

Another claim of yours which I expected you to have put forward evidence(s) for, is with regards to Allah (SWT) mentioning Iblis(la) as an angel. Please provide evidence for this, for what I know is as follows:

Iblis – may Allah curse him – is one of the jinn. He was not an angel for a single day, not even for an instant. The angels were created noble; they never disobey Allah when He commands them to do something and they do what they are commanded. This is clearly stated in the Quranic texts which indicate that Iblis is one of the jinn and not one of the angels. These texts include the following:
1. Allah says (interpretation of the meaning):

“And (remember) when We said to the angels: “Prostrate yourselves unto Adam.” So they prostrated themselves except Iblis (Satan). He was one of the jinn; he disobeyed the command of his Lord. Will you then take him (Iblis) and his offspring as protectors and helpers rather than Me while they are enemies to you? What an evil is the exchange for the Zalimoon (polytheists, and wrongdoers, etc).” [18:50]

Read more Here

AlBaqir:

Black Magic (sihr) is different from Evil eyes and casting of spells. Magic can ONLY bewitch eyes (see Surah A'raf: 116) and senses (see: Your hadith that lied that Nabi was bewitched)!.

NB: When I initially mentioned "brain (senses)", you ask rhetorically: Is it only "brain". Now you might girigiri say I have added "eyes" to it. Unfortunately you failed to see the word "usually" in my statement.

# Magic can never cause illness, loss of wealth, loss of properties or loss of life. All these are tests which can either come from:

1. Allah, and Quran says:

Do men think that they will be left alone on saying, We believe, and not be tried?

And certainly We tried those before them, so Allah will certainly know those who are true and He will certainly know the liars.
{Quran Surah al-Ankabut:2-3}

And We will most certainly try you with somewhat of fear and hunger and loss of property and lives and fruits; and give good news to the patient. {Quran 2:154}

2. From ourselves: Quran says:

Whatever benefit comes to you (O man!), it is from Allah, and whatever misfortune befalls you, it is from yourself, and We have sent you (O Prophet!), to mankind as an apostle; and Allah is sufficient as a witness. surah al-Nisa:79

# If you however hold that black Magic can cause loss of health, wealth, properties and life, kindly establish it with just a single verse from the Quran.

Interesting, so there is a difference between black magic, evil eye, and casting spells?! In fact with my previous responses, I shouldn’t even need to respond to this desperate attempt to make a case for your arguments…

black magic
noun
noun: black magic

1. magic involving the supposed invocation of evil spirits for evil purposes.
synonyms: sorcery, magic, witchcraft, wizardry, necromancy, enchantment, spellworking, incantation, the supernatural, occultism, the occult, the black arts, devilry;
malediction, voodoo, hoodoo, witching, witchery, hex, spell, jinx;
mojo, orenda;
makutu;
informalmuti;
raresortilege, thaumaturgy, theurgy
"they were found guilty of practising black magic"

I have not disagreed with the noble verses you have quoted; I only stated that black kufr magic is a means of trial for mankind. Allah didn’t create evil (amongst jinn and man) for fun na bros, what do you think their purpose on earth is for?! They are also trials from Allah (SWT) to test us, and Qur’an teaches us that these evil people, the shayateen and the evil men, collaborate to perpetrate their nefarious activities…I do not need to quote any verse for you, the verses already presented are enough, it’s simple and straight forward.

Let me help you a little bit though, when Allah (SWT) sent the Angels, Harut and Marut with magic that can split a couple, under what classification would you say this is? Is such a divorce not a misfortune? If I had said black kufr magic can make you lose your wife or husband, na so you go come here dey argue blindly…SMH

Perhaps I should also quote the ayah 116 of surah Al-‘Arahf: He [Musa (Moses)] said: "Throw you (first)." So when they threw, they bewitched the eyes of the people, and struck terror into them, and they displayed a great magic.

Bros, after the Qur’an stated what the magician did, bewitching the eyes of the people, what was the effect on the said people according to the Qur’an?! It struck terror into them! If I had also mentioned that black magic can cause you to be afraid, you would have also argued blindly…What am I driving at? Let me add another example, when Sulaiman (AS) asked for the throne of Balqis, a jinn named ifrit said he would bring the throne before Sulaiman (AS) would stand from his seat. Now if a jinn can do that so fast, and Allah (SWT) also states in the Qur’an that:

“And indeed (O Muhammad) individuals of humankind used to invoke the protection of individuals of the jinn, so that they increased them in revolt against Allah)” (Qur’an 72:6)

And we all know that those who use black magic seek help from the jinns, to what extent do you think they can harm man (of course with Allah’s permission)?! Evil men do not need special powers to course the above mentioned misfortunes, talk more of those versed in black magic. I think by now you should have understood all your above gymnastics of separating black magic, evil eye and spell is just nonsense, black evil magic is comprised of them all. I hope you wouldn't deny the existence of jinns o...

AlBaqir:

Again stop comparing stone with bread. What happened to Nabi Ayub was never black magic. What happened to him were tests from His Lord via Shaitan who needed to satisfy his curiosity.

# I gave more details below.

Of course Allah (SWT) tried Prophet Ayoub (AS) by using shaitan (la), that is what I have been saying all along na, and the verse clearly says that Prophet Ayoub (AS) acknowledged the fact that it was shaitan (la) that was responsible for his afflictions, he also knew that it was a test from Allah (SWT) hence the patience and then the suplications to Allah (SWT) alone! Which is similar to what the Prophet (SAW) did in the narration in question, a man used magic on the Prophet (SAW), obviously the man is of the shayateen (see surah Falaq and An-Nas Again!), the Prophet (SAW) realized this, just as Prophet Ayoub (AS) knew the source of his afflictions, then he (SAW) prayed, just as Prophet Ayoub (AS) prayed to Allah (SWT) alone. Thereafter, Allah (SWT) cured them both. If you cannot see the similarities, you need serious help!

AlBaqir:

# The underlined statement: Why dribbling like maradona before?! You either take Allah as your Wali or shaitan as your wali. Allah is not originator of evil.

# I have comment on the two "angels" already.

I had addressed these above, I hope you know Allah (SWT) is the Originator of everything, check your faith bro…This is why it is very important to study the correct aqeedah and not just jumping around with misguidance, causing harm for yourself and others.

^I knew you would exhibit your real shi'a identity, very good! Allah (SWT) would continue to expose you guys and your falsehoods...

I would give a more detailed response over the weekend in sha Allah, but for now, let me give you something to think deeply on.

I had advised you to look for reputable tafsir to study Surah Falaq and Nas, but you never learn, your aim is always to attack the blessed wives and the respectable close companions of the Prophet (SAW).

# All power belongs to Allah, and His Power is not evil. Allah never have any attribute of evil. He gives the power out to whomever He wills.

However man and Jinn with their freewill and intellect can choose to use the power in evil way or good way. If man uses it in evil way, does this (evil power/way) stem from Allah? Absolutely No!

# Dark evil magic is part of metaphysical sciences and it is originated by Shaitan. Islam believed it to be kufr and whoever uses it become kafir.

The above is very funny, it is either you are just trying too hard to be smart, or you are plain ignorant...

Allah (SWT) says in the Qur'an:

Say, "I seek refuge in the Lord of daybreak

From the evil of that which He created

And from the evil of darkness when it settles

And from the evil of the blowers in knots

And from the evil of an envier when he envies." (Qur'an 113:1-5)

O Sheikh AlBaqir, is "black evil kufr magic" evil?! Who created evil? Options: A. Allah (SWT) B. Shaitan (la).

Hint: You may look at the verses posted above... You may also consult the 12th infallible Imam, I hope you know where he is?!

Good luck!

Empiree:
His father's approach was not cool

Now my face would probably contradict what you have in mind. i resemble muhammad Ali according to some people

Ha! that is still a baby face o, you need to join the "beard gang" bro!

Yeah and that reminds me, Tbaba also has a baby face, and lanrexlan too (I think), all you baby-face looking brothers!

Empiree:
Sad! i hope Allah forgave him already. If not, he is in eternal damnation. I read about him last night. His greed was for power and money. Said he spent 50m in a day. Said his wife was his backbone and without her he is finished. what he meant by that was that he MUST not sleep with another women no matter how tempting. He must come home every night to sleep with his wife no matter what (in order to maintain th power). He said that's why he robbed in the daylight. Thats why Nigerian police raided his home when he was away and killed his wife. Thats how he was caught. His biggest worries now is, in quest for power, he was force to sleep with his mother. His mom is now in her 80s. He said he feels terrible anytime she sees her now.. Where is the freaking power now?

I read a little of the story last night too...I believe greed and very poor decisions as always been the major reasons behind man's resort to crime. Like the common saying, everyday is for the thief, one day is for the owner.

Empiree:

Na me be that ooo.
I could not take the role of Umar bcus of my baby face. I had baby (lady's) face growing up and soft spoken. So they used my colleague who had face of "Ajigi" or "Spark the killer"

I was not into music and dance aspect either. Really dont like all that.

And how stern is your face now ehn?!

Empiree:
^
That was a close encounter you had there. Just read some details of his freedom. He was jailed for 11yrs until OBJ came to power and granted him amnesty.

With that much crimes and lost of lives for just 11 yrs?. I doubt he served the whole time.

So you rehearsed for mawlud too?. Did mine in '96. The Conversion Story Of Umar ibn Khatab (rta). I was Alfa in the episode

Bros, sometimes, there is no justice in this world! But Allah (SWT) got everyone covered, if you escape your appropriate punishment in this world, you cannot escape that of the hereafter. And Allah (SWT) does whatever He Wills...

I see, Alfa Empiree! I would have thought you would have acted as Umar (ra) o. I did rehearsed for mawlud and Lailatul qadri, it was fun back then, I was into the songs and dance aspect, in fact, I was always in the first row, with the mic . I was to participate in a drama one time, but I ran away, slept in the masjid till the whole thing was over. I think I also read hadiths too, you memorize hadith both in Arabic, English and Yoruba, then come mesmerize the crowd

AlBaqir:


Imam Bukhari documents:

Book: Beginning of Creation

Chapter: The characteristics of Iblis (Satan) and his soldiers

Narrated `Aisha:

Magic was worked on the Prophet (s) so that he began to fancy that he was doing a thing which he was not actually doing. One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period and then said, "I feel that Allah has inspired me as how to cure myself. Two persons came to me (in my dream) and sat, one by my head and the other by my feet. One of them asked the other, "What is the ailment of this man?" The other replied, 'He has been bewitched" The first asked, 'Who has bewitched him?' The other replied, 'Lubaid bin Al-A'sam.' The first one asked, 'What material has he used?' The other replied, 'A comb, the hair gathered on it, and the outer skin of the pollen of the male date-palm.' The first asked, 'Where is that?' The other replied, 'It is in the well of Dharwan.' " So, the Prophet (s) went out towards the well and then returned and said to me on his return, "Its date-palms (the date-palms near the well) are like the heads of the devils." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth.

Reference : Sahih al-Bukhari 3268
In-book reference : Book 59, Hadith 78
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Vol. 4, Book 54, Hadith 490
http://sunnah.com/bukhari/59


Imam Muslim also documents same hadith:

Book: The Book of Greetings

Chapter: Witchcraft

Reference : Sahih Muslim 2189 a
In-book reference : Book 39, Hadith 57
USC-MSA web (English) reference : Book 26, Hadith 5428
http://sunnah.com/muslim/39

Very good, now we read a narration about effect of magic on the Prophet (SAW), for the fact that the narration clearly stated what the Prophet (SAW) did when he noticed something was not right, here it is, and I know you AlBaqir would not pay attention to it: "One day he invoked (Allah) for a long period" Does this suggest that the Prophet (SAW) was confused and lost his senses?! O Shi'a why are you like this?! What did Prophet Ayoub do when he was afflicted?! He prayed to Allah (SWT). What did our Prophet (SAW) also do? He prayed to Allah (SWT) for a long period Subhannalah! So what happened after?! did the effect of the magic persist?! Now learn o you who has refused to, when Allah (SWT) revealed what had happened to the Prophet (SAW) to him, what later happened?! :." I asked, "Did you take out those things with which the magic was worked?" He said, "No, for I have been cured by Allah and I am afraid that this action may spread evil amongst the people." Later on the well was filled up with earth.

The Prophet (SAW) need not even bring out whatever the evil man did, Allah (SWT) cured the Prophet (SAW) just through the prayer of the Prophet (SAW), what a beautiful miracle, the Prophet (SAW) need not use any medication, or do any special ritual like Prophet Ayoub (AS), he (SAW) was miraculously cured!

AlBaqir:

NB: This hadith comes with contradictory variations. That is a subject for another day. I am however interested in the following:

# The effect of magic is usually in an organ: Brain.

# [size=14pt]How does the wizard came into possession of Prophet's comb where his hair gathered? Who sold out the Prophet? And at what "price"?[/size]

When someone's heart and soul has been afflicted with problems, he wouldn't see any good in anything than problems! If there are no problems, he would manufacture problems for himself and then continue to wallow in problems. So the effect of magic is only in the Brain?! lol, oya come up with your conspiracy theories, who sold Propht's comb (did the narration even say it was the Prophet's comb?!), How much did they sell it?! These are questions asked by a mind devoid of Allah's illumination...May Allah help you amen.

AlBaqir:

.................................. ...............................
Side comment: The fact that the so-called Sahih Bukhari was written and compiled around 114 years after the demise of the supposed author, even that it only contain 52 pages, this gigantic 9 volumes with thousands of ahadith is never known to Imam Bukhari. Perhaps the "innocent" Imam is cursing those who fabricated this in his name.

Irrelevant!

AlBaqir:
^Obviously you are derailing and arguing blindly. Anyway this is not the first time.

We shall know who is derailing and who is arguing blindly.

AlBaqir:

The discussion is clear:

# Your ahadith say Nabi was affected by Black evil kufr magic to the extent that he looses his senses.

Thank God you have quoted the narration, now we see that you are the one trying too hard to make a mountain out of a molehill. We shall see soon enough of your desperations

AlBaqir:

# Where does magic comes from? I maintained magic is from shaitan. And my stand remains Shaitan has no power over Nabi salallahu alayhi wa ahli.

So Shaitan (la) is the creator of magic ehn?! what absurdity would you claim?! The angels that Allah (SWT) mentioned in the Qur'an taught people what?! Did they learn it from shaitan or it was the other way round?! The verses are there for you to read again and understand! And did I say shaitan has power over the Prophet (SAW)?

AlBaqir:

# Here you tried your might to change the subject to "tests" [specifically loss of life, loss of properties, loss of wealth, loss of health] which you claimed are from Shaitan (citing the case of Nabi Ayub). You were corrected on this fact that tests are from Allah exclusively, and that If it is from man, then it is out of our injustice, sinfulness, and corruption. Quran clearly states all these facts.

Quick question AlBaqir, since you believe shaitan is the originator of magic, this black evil kufr magic, can magic cause ill-health? can magic cause loss of life? can magic cause loss of wealth and properties? your answers would give you the insight that you are the one indeed arguing blindly. It is a known fact that people, carry out diabolic activities to cause these above mentioned afflictions on their fellow man, who do you think is their helper?! And when their afflictions do come to be effective, who gave the permission?! Allah (SWT) test His slaves with whatever he Wills, He has given permission to shaitan to carryout his nefarious activities...shaitan himself had stated his purpose, which is to mislead man, and he acknowledged the fact that he wouldn't be able to mislead Allah's righteous slaves, so no matter the activities which Allah (SWT) had permitted shaitan to carry out his purpose, he can only try, and shaitan does not relent, but he would fail as the case of the Prophets and their righteous companions.

AlBaqir:

# Again, the case of Nabi Ayub: Shaitan was convinced within his silly self that it was because of Nabi Ayub's luxurious life that made him devoted to God. He requested to test him and Allah granted him the permission to prove him wrong. This is exceptional otherwise the default Du'a of every righteous man let alone Nabi is seeking Allah's protections from Shaitan constantly, knowing him to be an avowed enemy.

This is where it gets really interesting, Ayoub (AS) stated clearly that his afflictions were the handiwork of shaitan, the loss of life (his family), health, wealth and properties, did we read he was informed that shaitan had sought permission from Allah(SWT) beforehand? That wouldn't be a test would it?!...Indeed Allah (SWT) gave permission, and that is how Allah (SWT) gives permission to whatever pattern or way in which man's tests would come...Allah (SWT) does whatever he wishes for His slaves, righteous or not. This case is not exceptional, for Allah (SWT) had used this as an example for the Prophet (SAW), and source of reminder for the whole ummah! So these tests, which Allah (SWT) had informed us in the Qur'an, can come through shaitan (la), and can come to any man Prophet or layman, but shaitan cannot use his tricks to mislead Allah's righteous servant!

AlBaqir:

# Surprisingly you are giving silly impression now that magic is from other than Shaitan just because a man was reported in your hadith to have cast this spell on Nabi. You even cited the two "angels" Harut and Marut despite the fact that the beginning of the ayah suggested sihr is from shaitan!

Nah! the hadith is clear, who performed the magic, definitely such a person has shaitan as his ally, but the hadith did not say it was a direct act of shaitan, that is what I tried to clarify. Please read the verse again and tell me what the two Angels tought the people, and what the shayateen learnt (stole) from them. In fact, the Angels also pointed it out clearly that what they are teaching is a form of trial so that they should not become disbelievers. I guess you are reading the verse without your glasses...Perhaps it was the Angels that learnt the magic from shayateen abi?!

AlBaqir:

O boy! You are simply obsessed in opposing Shi'a no doubt even to the extent of opposing clear verses or your hadith. Like I said earlier this is not your first time and can never be the last.

I have not opposed any verse or hadith, you are the one with understanding issues, and you being a Shi'a happens to be an additional problem for you not me. What made you post this issue in the first instance? it's a rhetorical question, you need not tell me...

AlBaqir:

NB: Nah! I don't follow your "cut and join" arguments please - "your Aimma were poison", "Nabi was wounded in the battlefields", "Nabi Adam and his wives were visited by Shaitan" blah blah blah.

Yeah! you wouldn't follow, I asked were 9 outta 12 of your infallible Imams not poisoned to death?! These men that killed your aimma, who do you think is their ally (maula )?! Since you guys extoll your Imams way overboard, such as knowing the future, knowing when they would die, know the secrets of the worlds etc, how come they couldn't detect poisons which eventually killed them?! Didn't they seek protection from Allah (SWT) from such evil plots against themselves?! What type of people use poisons to kill other people, Do we not have sorcerers, witches and wizards as the usual suspects?!

I also requested that you provide proofs of when shaitan sought Allah's permission (since you believe that shaitan cannot get to the Prophets) before getting close to Prophet Adam (AS) and his wife to the extent of making them eat the forbidden fruit, which eventually caused their relocation to earth...Was this not a test from Allah (SWT)?! Was it not also Allah's perfect plan?!

lanrexlan:
Watch the Yoruba film here.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4S7zmzzJEyA
The star acctor is your friend "Won ni Jimoh lor'uko yin? Yeeeeeeees!!"


The incident happened when he was working at Seme Border. As a customs officer, he was with his other colleagues that dreadful day at the checkpoint when they sighted a light truck coming towards them with full speed. The road has already been blocked using planks and the likes. They shouted “Stop! Stop!”, but the light truck just destroyed the whole barricade they used to block the road.

The next thing they saw were tens of vehicles that followed and Shina Rambo was sitting on the roof of an open/close roof-type of a vehicle. On his neck was a living tortoise , on sighting him my dad and his mates who had prior knowledge of who he is had fled into a nearby bush living their guns behind. He was trying to smuggle those stolen cars out of the country and sell them at cotonou.

But a newly recruited hausa man as he narrated, didn’t know who Shina Rambo was. He was trying to shoot those who were going against rules and for not stopping the vehicle when stopped using his cork and shoot rifle. But these robbers were loaded with sophisticated weapons. The poor man was shot multiple times before he could even take a shot . Dad said they shot sporadically into the air more than 30 minutes in order to scare the officers and make sure all those vehicles had passed.


When they had gone, the officers came out of the bush only to find their colleague in a pool of blood. Dad said that more than 30 bullets were removed from the man. He was shot mercilessly. Poor man!

A very unfortunate and sad story. Shina Rambo was not just an armed robber, he was a terrorist. I remembered when he came to our area, I was at "ilekewu" participating in rehearsals for maulud or lailatu'l qadri, all of a sudden, we heard gunshots, we all had to lie down, we were on the top floor of the masjid, I wasn't sure of what I saw (I was quite young), it was in the night and everywhere was dark, but I thought I saw Shina Rambo (not that I knew how he looks like) on the roof of a two story building opposite the masjid with a gun and bullets crisscrossed around his body, well, they stole the car or cars, and disappeared. People dreaded the mention of that name, even children were scared of the name back then...

AlBaqir:


Sino you sound like Christians who believed ill health, loss of life and properties etc are from Shaitan. As a muslim, according to Quran, all these are either tests from Allah to know who is steadfast or injustice from ourselves. Shaitan has no power to afflict anybody with these tests except he sought Allah's permission specially (e.g in the case of Nabi Ayub), and ofcourse he has dominion over those who yield to his instructions.

# Then you refer to surah al-Hijr and tried to narrow it down to only swaying from the path of Allah. Truly that was what Shaitan says however Allah says: " [ليس لك عليهم سلطن ] - you will not have authority over them". Authority here is not restricted.

However: We are talking about Black evil magic that make man confused or behave abnormal not tests as in ill health, loss of wealth, life and properties which primarily are from Allah.

So when Allah (SWT) test His servants, it can never be through shaitan?! Are there shaitan amongst men and jinn?! When Allah (SWT) taught His Prophet (SAW) as well as the Muslims to seek protection from shaitan, amongst men and jinn, do you think it is just for their whispering?! Even at that, whispering of shaitan is also a test from Allah (SWT). Please go and study the surah Falaq and Nas properly. And please consult reputable books of tafsir...

I see you couldn't respond to my query with respect to the infallible Imams who died of poison, with the way you guys paint your Imams, one would have thought they couldn't be harmed by anyone or anything, they ought to have just died peacefully, and not through affliction of poison... O do I need to mention that poisoning also be a form of "black evil magic"?! Well I'll leave you to ruminate on that for a while...

And please which tafsir are you quoting from? This is how you people just pick an ayah, twist and turn it just to favour your argument. Please answer me, when did shaitan seek Allah's permission before going to Adam (AS) and his wife? Please bring your proofs. The verses are clear, shaitan has no authority on a righteous man (be he a Prophet or not), to mislead him away from Allah (SWT), no matter the tactics shaitan employs...When Allah (SWT) said shaitan is an open enemy to man and commanded us to take him as an enemy, Allah (SWT) did not exempt the Prophets or the righteous servants.

By the way, the issue of magic on the prophet (SAW) did not come from shaitan (although we know that he is the father of evil), the magic was done by a man, And Allah SWT cured him, and revealed what the man did and his identity. Also have you forgotten the origin of magic in the Qur'an?! read!

"They followed what the Shayatin (devils) gave out (falsely of the magic) in the lifetime of Sulaiman (Solomon). Sulaiman did not disbelieve, but the Shayatin (devils) disbelieved, teaching men magic and such things that came down at Babylon to the two angels, Harut and Marut, but neither of these two (angels) taught anyone (such things) till they had said, "We are only for trial, so disbelieve not (by learning this magic from us)." And from these (angels) people learn that by which they cause separation between man and his wife, but they could not thus harm anyone except by Allah's Leave. And they learn that which harms them and profits them not. And indeed they knew that the buyers of it (magic) would have no share in the Hereafter. And how bad indeed was that for which they sold their ownselves, if they but knew." (Qur'an 2:102)

It is common knowledge that the disbelievers did not relent from trying their utmost best to harm the Messenger of Allah and the Muslims, even the Prophet (SAW) was injured on the battle field! But all their efforts failed, and the disbelievers were the losers!

By the way, as I already know your ways, why not quote the full narration of this "black evil magic" that can make a man "confused and behave abnormal."

AlBaqir:


# Unfortunately you ran away from the Quranic verse of Surah al-Hijr where even Shaitan confirm he can never near the devoted ones. This is the foundation, the default!

Lol! I wanted you to bring out your understanding of the verse I presented and also show your poor understanding of the Qur'an...Surah Hijr verse 39-40, let's read more to fully grasp what these holy verses are talking about:
We start from where shaitan was asking Allah (SWT) for permission to perpetrate his trade-

[Iblis (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Give me then respite till the Day they (the dead) will be resurrected."

Allah said: "Then, verily, you are of those reprieved,

"Till the Day of the time appointed."

[Iblis (Satan)] said: "O my Lord! Because you misled me, I shall indeed adorn the path of error for them (mankind) on the earth, and I shall mislead them all.

"Except Your chosen, (guided) slaves among them."

(Allah) said: "This is the Way which will lead straight to Me."

"Certainly, you shall have no authority over My slaves, except those who follow you of the Ghawin (Mushrikun and those who go astray, criminals, polytheists, and evil-doers, etc.).

"And surely, Hell is the promised place for them all. (Qur'an 15:36-43)

The above information clearly talks about what shaitan plans to do, to mislead mankind from the straight path, the path of Al-Islam. shaitan knows he cannot deceive the devoted righteous slaves of Allah (SWT), this does not imply that the righteous slaves of Allah (SWT) would not be afflicted or tried with ill health or loss of life and the likes, that we attribute these afflictions to shaitan, is just part of the design of Allah (SWT), your response and reactions to these afflictions is what seperates a righteous devoted slave and a disbeliever who has chose to go astray.

AlBaqir:

# Exception is the case of Nabi Ayyub alayhi afdhalu salat wa salam. Observe: Shaitan never near Nabi Ayub untill he sought Allah's permission to afflict him with loss of wealth and health. To the shame of Shaitan, Nabi Ayub never sway from remembering his Lord.

It is not an exception, the rule is same for us all, we are all afflicted in one way or the other, that is called a test, be it loss of health, wealth, Jihad, etc. even Adam (AS) was tested and his test was carried out by shaitan, is that also another exception? tell me which prophet of Allah (SWT) was not tested or afflicted?!

Allah Says:
"Or you think that you will enter Paradise without such (trials) as came to those who passed away before you? They were afflicted with severe poverty, ailments and were so shaken that even the Messenger and those who had faith with him said, 'When will the Help of Allah come?' Yes! Indeed Allah's help is close!" [Al-Qur'an 2:214]

"And We will surely test you with something of fear and hunger and a loss of wealth and lives and fruits, but give good tidings to the patient. Who, when disaster strikes them, say, "Indeed we belong to Allah , and indeed to Him we will return."Those are the ones upon whom are blessings from their Lord and mercy. And it is those who are the [rightly] guided. [Qur'an 2:155]

For your information, the shaitan has no power to harm anyone except with the permission of Allah (SWT), or have you forgotten that nothing happens without the knowledge of Allah (SWT) and His permission?! Bro, you need serious tawheed lessons

AlBaqir:

# In the case of our Nabi, salallahu alayhi wa ahli, your hadith says he was affected by black evil magic to the extent that he doesn't know what he was doing. Was this the case with Nabi Ayub?

So?! Did the narration not also state that Allah (SWT) cured him?! in fact it was a revelation that came to him(SAW). The narration does not take anything away from the Prophet (SAW), it even shows the miraculous cure by Allah (SWT) for the Prophet(SAW). We did not read that the magic made the Prophet (SAW) to go astray, or that he did something despicable, is it?!

AlBaqir, I once read some of the Infallible Imams were poisoned, and died as a result I think 9 outta 11 (Imagine!), is this true?! just asking

AlBaqir:

# Unfortunately according to your bogus ahadith, Shaitan used to flee away from Umar.

Shaitan also flees from me bro, I have the magic word, if you don't know ask politely...

AlBaqir:


Truly there are some ahadith that point out that fact - that Nabi salallahu alayhi wa ahli was affected by magic! You guys believed in those ahadith 100% because your scholars "proved" they are sihah (authentic). Likewise there are some ahadith which says Shaitan used to disturb the prayer of Nabi to the fact that Nabi used to get physical with him, and sometimes Shaitan recline in his presence delaying him from taking "righteous action". Sunni generally believe in these ahadith because they were found to be "authentic". However, some ahadith known to be "authentic" also say Shaitan cannot even stand Umar's voice let alone waiting for him.


#Here I only wish to state my objections to it (the magic):

# Magic is handiwork of Shaitan and it is evil and kufr.

# Magic or whispers or influence or command or whatever from Shaitan can never affect devoted servants of Allah let alone a Nabi let alone the greatest Nabi, the Imam of the most devoted servants of Allah. Quran says:

He (shaitan) said: My Lord! because Thou hast made life evil to me, I will certainly make (evil) fair-seeming to them on earth, and I will certainly cause them all to deviate

Except Thy servants from among them, the devoted ones

He (Allah) said: This is a right way with Me:

Surely, as regards My servants, you (Shaitan) have no authority over them except those who follow you of the deviators. {surah al-Hijr:39-42}

These noble verses from among many others compelled me to treat those "sahih ahadith" as filthy garbage, nothing but lies in the quest to make point.

O Sheikh AlBaqir! help us understand the below verse:

“And remember Our slave Ayyub (Job), when he invoked his Lord (saying): ‘Verily Shaitan (Satan) has touched me with distress (by ruining my health) and torment (by ruining my wealth)!’ (Allah said to him): “Strike the ground with your foot: This is (a spring of) water to wash in, and a cool and (refreshing) drink.” And We gave him (back) his family, and along with them the like thereof, as a Mercy from Us, and a Reminder for those who understand (Sad 38:41-43).

Was Prophet Ayoub (AS) not a righteous, devoted servant of Allah (SWT)?! Or the above Qur'anic verse is "filthy garbage"?!

Audhubillah mina shaitan rajim!

Seun:

Thanks for your response. Most of us came into religion that same way. How are you sure that the Quran is truly the word of God, though?

You are welcome. How are we sure of anything in this life?! How do we perceive the truth?! What is the truth?! These are questions that I did ask myself, and still do, I am open-minded, and I have studied the Qur'an based on my own limitations, and I arrived at the the believe that it is indeed the truth. I refer to limitations with respect to available resources to verify facts, existence of the personalities and periods mentioned in the Qur'an and during the period of revelation. It would be illogical to believe in a creator who wouldn't give his creation a guide. In the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) would tell us to study our own lives and see/realize the truth. We as humans create stuff, and would always add a manual, a user guide. I believe Allah (SWT) created me, and He sent the Qur'an as a guide, so I learn and understand my purpose, as well as how to navigate through this ephemeral world in order to attain success in this life and the next.

Seun:

How would you disprove the idea that the Prophet simply took the stories of those prophets from the bible and modified them for the Qur'an?

The narrative of revelation from previous messengers till the last has to be consistent, the message should be one and same, and that is to believe in one true God and worship Him alone. Once I have believed in the truth of the Qur'an being revealed, I have no problem with similar narrations in previous books, because the Qur'an has enjoined me to believe in the previous books being revelations from the same source/Author. Since the Author had mentioned the names of His previous works and some information in them, in the new and final work, there is no need to scream plagiarism. Hence there is no need to even think for a second that the Prophet (SAW) took and modify anything, his purpose was to convey the message and guide the people.

Seun:

Could your distaste for the Christian trinity doctrine be due to its condemnation by the religion you were brought up in, and nothing more?

On the contrary, It has nothing to do with the religion I was brought up in, in fact, in fact, i learnt more about Christianity than Islam when I was growing up, no thanks to compulsory BK and CRK classes, I even had a bible and a song of praise (i think)...

The fact that we humans detest sharing authority generally...We may have subordinates, but not share that position of authority. We do not have 2 presidents in a country, nor can two people captain a ship. Therefore it makes no sense to believe there are more than one creator, there would be chaos if such were to be true.

ShiaMuslim:
looks like the author has never read the Quran which touches DIRECTLY on the Imamate of the first holy Imam, Imam Ali Ibn Abi Talib (as) in VERSE 5:55.

and Mr. sino, you really do not need to stress yourself much with the copy/paste. you should have simply presented the link and not waste your data. the above claims by "Afriqi" have been refuted here:

http://www.shiapen.com/comprehensive/imamate/sunni-doctrine.html

and attempt by Shia Muslims on this forum to tackle the claims and dissect the arguments would only be a futile repetition. the work is already done in the above link.

Bros, you could have just moved along without commenting, you failed to prove the doctrine of Imamah from the Qur’an in another thread, your scholars have been running helter-skelter trying to look for verses in the Qur’an that supports your weird belief, still you all failed. Here is what one of your scholar said:

Al-Khomeini said: Had the matter of the Imamah been fixed in the Quran, then those who do not care for Islam or the Quran except where it comes to matters of this worldly life and [matters of] Leadership, they would have used the Quran as a mean to fulfill their suspicious objectives, and would have omitted these verses from its pages121 …

This can be found in his book “Kashf Al-Asrar” p. 131.

Anyways, I scanned through the rebuttal/refutation put forward by the shiapen team, I must say, you guys are more confused than I earlier imagined. The fact that you guys are ready to quote any book, and any scholar and any narration so long as they support your queer ideology is quite appalling.

So what did I find in the link? The fact that you guys beliefs are true as presented by the author of the above article, (and also calling him a nasibi, as if that would have a special effect or something), and then trying too hard to prove that such beliefs can be found in some sunni books, and twisting Qur’anic verses upside down. Unfortunately for the overzealous shiapen team, I am sure any sane person who goes through that article would be not only confused, but convinced that you guys are a bunch of jokers…It was so pathetically verbose, I guess it is part of the training, lose your opponents in a quagmire of irrelevancies…And also to deceive the ignorant, with so many paperweight evidences.

Now the author of the article specifically stated his arguments, the reason he had to bring out the beliefs of the Shi’a on the Imamah, of which he provided proofs, thereafter the pertinent question was asked after showing that Nubuwah, which you people want us to believe is secondary was explicitly stated in the Qur’an and thus said: “The question now is: Does the same hold true for Imamah? If Imamah is superior to Nubuwwah, as the theology of the Ithna ‘Ashari (Twelvers)Shia teaches, it would be only reasonable to expect that the Qur’an would deal in equally explicit terms with Imamah; and if not, that at least a clear, unambiguous picture what Imamah is and who the Imams are, would be drawn by the Qur’an”

So no answer was given except for vague responses like there are other names for Imamah according to shi’a beliefs and the likes, very pathetic!
Now the below caught my attention:

Afriqi states:

"It is of the undeniable tenets of our faith that our Imams possess a status with Allah that neither Angel nor Messenger can aspire to"

Shiapen Response:[b]

"It is from the perspective of role that we believe that the status of the twelve Imams is superior to the previous Prophets. Not all of the past Prophets introduced a shariah and a book, the majority of them came to confirm existing scriptures. Whilst these Prophets acquired awareness, education and knowledge from Allah through the channel of revelation, their teachings only covered the ideological aspects of guidance and had very little to do with jurisprudential affairs of guidance.

Compare this to the duty that has fallen upon the true inheritors of the Prophet (s), these Imams were involved in both aspects of guidance at both an ideological and operational level. They were also entrusted with preserving the shariah law from any distortion or change, along with implementing the shariah law in their own contemporary circumstances, circumstances that may have changed since the time of Prophet. As inheritors of the mission of the Prophet tasked with fulfilling the duties of Surah Tauba they have the ability to provide clear answers to new issues facing the Ummah.

This is such a big responsibility since Islam is the religion forever. None of the Prophets ever bore such responsibility. Afriqi might object to the above comment, but the fact is they have tasked with fulfilling the outstanding aspects of the Prophetic mission."[/b]

Now the above belief/opinion cannot be proven by the Qur’an, on the contrary, the Qur’an destroys such silly belief, not only that, the new generation shi’a like AlBaqir would call narrations that go against the Qur’an as crazy, as well as opinions of anyone too. Suffice to say, the above hogwash is crazy!

Before I even quote the Qur’an, the 12th Imam is in hiding, and we wonder how the shi’a get their guidance on contemporary issues that has differed from the days of the Prophet (SAW)? Moreover, the shi’a had told us that these Imams follow the shari’ah of the last messenger to mankind, they follow the sunnah of the Prophet (SAW) and they follow the Qur’an, so what kind of "jurisprudential" affairs of guidance are we talking about?! Is it how to use taqqiyah (dissimulation) even to your own people?! Well there are narrations of how your Imams were full of taqqiyah without even the slightest need for it (i.e when their lives was not threatened at all).

Allah (SWT) says in the Qur’an:

“Say ye: "We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Abraham, Ismail, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, and that given to Moses and Jesus, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: We make no difference between one and another of them: And we bow to Allah (in Islam)." (Q 2:136)

The above clearly shows that your belief goes against the Qur’an, and I had asked you to name the Prophets (AS) that the 12 Imams are superior to, abi you no fit name them ni?!

If you may assist us o shi’a, how do the Imams preserve the shariah law from distortion or change?! Is it through your shi’a books which are filled with fabrications?! Please tell us, how?! If Allah (SWT) had promised to safeguard His book, the Qur’an, and informed the noble prophet (SAW) the completion of his task, I wonder what new issues facing the Ummah the Imams need to come clarify for us, when we still have the Qur’an and the authentic narrations of the Prophet (SAW). So what are the "outstanding aspects of prophetic mission"? Did the Prophet (SAW) not complete the mission?! Was the Prophet (SAW) not sent to all mankind and jinns till the end time?! And again, for over 1200 years, the 12th Imam is said to be in hiding, so you shi’a have been in misguidance for this long?! Chai!

By the way, if I want to talk about "wilayah", I would start a separate thread for it! And please do not worry about my data, Allah (SWT) is the Provider...

Contact17:


Thanks for this wonderful reminder.

Alhamdulilah! you are welcome.

lanrexlan:
I tell you brother, Munching currie rice like tomorrow no dey . May Allah ease our affairs and grants us all the best out of life and Aakhirah. Thanks bro

I understand the feeling. Ameen to your du'a, you are welcome.

lanrexlan:
Don't mind Nollywood jare, they are not good in packaging their movie. Imagine a dead person stuck with earpiece in his ears in their so-called afterlife or a dead person narrating how he was killed when watching chelsea's match with a ton of white powder on his face . Just enjoy Nollywood biko.

Watching some zombie series show how spooky their counterpart is, "Land of the living dead" don't watch at night o


You are welcome bro

Nollywood no go kii pesin aswear!

Thanks for the heads-up, I once thought I had a licking for horror movies, but mehn, I can't continue having nightmares

lanrexlan:

Akudaya Olooro is the common one and seeing doppelganger or one who bears a striking resemblance with a deceased person, the movie also touched that aspect.

When Abdulbasit was sent back to the world, he was sent to Ajah and he met other 'onidubules' like him who have died in other places. Among them are twin brothers named "Sunday sunday" (Cos they died on sunday). One woman saw them and she said they look like her friend's sons, when the woman left "Sunday Sunday" shaked their head that the woman can't understand that they are indeed the sons of her friend but they are now onidubules and not their look-alike.

People bear striking resemblances with a living person, not to even talk of a deceased but the movie tried to clarify that.

Exactly my sentiment, sometimes these occurrences need not incline towards the spiritual.

lanrexlan:

This is the common type of Akudaya which stories people do narrate. I have heard similar stories of such and an example of that is the one narrated to me by my grandmum.

She said her mother (i.e. my grandmum's mother) was dead before her children could know her and when the daughters (my grandmum and her sister) were matured enough they usually go to market's place to sell wares. She continued that everyday there is a certain woman that usually gives them food and drink, and they made mentioned of this to their relatives and they asked them to describe the woman. On describing the generous woman, the description turned out to fit their mother! The relatives then decided to follow them to the place where they usually see the woman, on getting there the woman failed to appear and they tried for days after, yet no signs of her. That was the end of seeing their so-called deceased mother.

I wouldn't dismiss the above narration, I do believe there are some mysterious events that do happen around us, encounters with metaphysical beings and the likes, I just don't like the idea whereby it becomes the center of attention. I do not intend to communicate with the jinns or the "spirit" world.

lanrexlan:

Indeed Allah is All-knowing, I just hope my curiousity won't put me into trouble one day like D. O. Fagunwa

A healthy curiosity is good, just do not become obsessed. Well, you may start from going to Ajah to look for the akudaya onidubule

Allah (SWT) says about narrating the most beautiful story in the Qur’an, and this story is about the prophet Yusuf (AS). I must first acknowledge the presentation of this story by Ustadh Nouman Khan of the Bayyinah Institute, listening to the way he presented this event was quite insightful.

So I was browsing through some videos on Facebook when I encountered this verse from surah Yusuf being recited by a very melodious voice, there and then, it seemed I had never heard this verse in my life, or perhaps it was the verse I needed to put my mind at rest, a profound reminder, and I had to share…

“…and never give up hope of Allah's Mercy. Certainly no one despairs of Allah's Mercy, except the people who disbelieve." (Quran 12:87)

As Muslims, you are not expected to give up, no matter how gloomy the whole situation is, you just cannot give up hope in the Mercy of Allah (SWT), He definitely got your back, so you need not despair! Giving up hope is likened to disbelief, so reaffirm your faith, take the bull by the horns, and pursue your dreams with confidence and hope in the Mercies of Allah…