cap28:

ive never heard anyone talk so much crap in my life - so according to your logic the only available source of revenue for undertaking infrastructure development in nigeria is from the revenue that is currently being used to subsidise the price of petrol for consumers - so what does the nigerian govt do with the tax revenue, crude oil sales revenue, monies from windfall sales of crude oil, where does all that money go? this is the most ridiculous argument i have ever heard in my life, so you actually beleive that a govt that has diverted billions in oil revenue into overseas personal accounts over the years will suddenly develop a conscience and use the subsidy revenue to build infrastructure?

this is the daftest argument i have ever heard, honestly

and for your information it is the nigerian govts responsiblity to finance certain basic services such as education and healthcare - the reason the govt is not doing this is not only due to the diversion of govt funds into personal bank accounts but also due to their ongoing implementation of IMF structural adjustment policies - monies that are supposed to go into these areas are used to pay extortionate interest rates on loans borrowed from international financial institutions.

govts of developed countries PROVIDE services like education and health care to their citizens, they also subsidise other areas such as agriculture in order to keep the prices of food low so that your statement about nigerians being over reliant on the govt does not make sense - IT IS THE DUTY OF A GOVT TO PROVIDE FOR ITS CITIZENS NOT FOR THE CITIZENS TO BE LEFT TO FEND FOR THEMSELVES!!!

Thank you for stating what the edicolove refuses to see

I feel this man's frustration and it's very easy to say the same things he said. Just got back to naija after being away for some time and i've got to say this country must have some of the most backward people on this earth. Everyone is waiting for everyone else to do something (not saying i've personally done something but this is just my observation). Those who try to do things are frustrated at every level wherever they turn by other people who lack the capacity to see the bigger picture. How a country can be so stagnant when the rest of the world is moving on is beyond me. The thing is as an ordinary citizen, you have no power to force other people to see the bigger picture. You can talk and talk and talk but you are not going to force the market women to stop throwing refuse into the drain. You are not going to make ignorant neighbours build toilets in their houses instead of doing bush attack by your fence every night. You are not going to make the local government create pedestrian walkways on the very very busy main street of your town where accidents happen every few days. You are not going to give the person driving like a manian in front of you a ticket. Its all the job of the government. And if you argue with people during election on why the popular candidate does not deserve to get in beacause he wouldn't do all these things, they will all shoot you down with cries of "but he gave us bags of rice", he is from our hometown", he is annointed by God", "he was distributing money in front of his house everyday during his first term".

What's a person to do? You are not the government, they wouldn't let you get in to leadership positions if you don't bribe. You can't influence anything and you go out everyday looking at the environment you live in and are so frustrated at the total lack of foresight and imagination that your fellow people show. Who would want to live in such a place? The foreigners that want to come here do so because we treat them like gods and they don't have to endure the lot of the average Nigerian.  In other words they are big men when they come here as opposed to their just being another citizen in their own country. It is really sad

On different terrorist attacks hear what leaders with political will had to say:

On 911: "This is an act of war against the United States. We'll hunt down the terrorists. They can run but they can't' hide, " - George Bush.

London Bombing: "We'll track down the terrorists and bring them to justice" - Tony Blair.

UN House Bombing: "Terrorism is a global phenomenon. May be it's Nigeria's turn." - Goodluck Jonathan.

So seeing as Jonathan has been acting president since February 9, 2010 and president since May 6, 2010 what do you think of his performance so far?

If the reports of what Gaddafi did for the Libyan people are accurate then I think that is laudable. On the other hand you don't need a dictator to run a socialist system. Its not as if the Libyans are completely incapable of running themselves and there are several examples of social democracies especially in Northern Europe. It might be a tribal society but surely having experienced tyranny for so long the best thing they can do for themselves is to sit down and plot a way forward together? Maybe its just me but I don't understand the support for a man who denies people the basic human right of freedom. Our experiences here in Nigeria are not the basis on which to judge other leaders.

nolongTing:

[size=13pt]so why on earth you talking about Sweeden?[/size] 

Obviously your ability to seperate out arguments and logically answer the different points presented is severely limited. Its really pointless arguing with someone as academically challenged as you are but then again you are probably a product of the poor and defective education availabe in most Nigerian schools. Your wild conspiracy theories and flights of fantasy point to an over-imaginative mind so you'll probably do well in Nollywood. Except for the fact that your poor reasoning skills would result in mangled scripts and terrible plots.

Also, resorting to insults in order to win arguments is not a sign of intelligence. Neither does the number of smilies you use indicate any sort of ability to express yourself.  On that note I'm signing off and you wouldn't be hearing back from me on this topic unless of course you magically resolve your problems. 

Sayōnara

PS: Please learn to spell

Also I really don't care what NATO does anywhere else. The topic of discussion is Libya. If the people of Bahrain felt that it was in their interest to take up arms agaisnt their government, and then proceeded to ask the UN for help, I would support the UN coming to their help too.

By the way, the leadership of Bahrain is a monarchy, not a dictatorship.

Young and naive? Wrong on both counts mate. You don't know me.

@tpia@ you misunderstand me. I'm saying that just because Libya has a good standard of living as compared to other African countries doesn't excuse all the other things Gadhafi has been accused of.

I'm also saying that if Libya was such a paradise, there would be no popular uprising and people wouldn't be celebrating in the streets.

So let me understand. You people's support for Gaddafi's dictatorship is purely based on his provision of a higher standard of living than can be found in many, if not all African countries?

Pray tell why you guys did not move to Libya then to enjoy this wonderful paradise. Someone above mentioned democracy as being a bad thing. Please tell me you don't live in any western country because if you do then that would be most hypocritical of you.

You give the example of Nigerian democracy having achieved nothing for 50 yrs but then neglect to mention that in that period we have had only about 6 yrs of true democracy. We have had military dictatorships and have had supposedly "civilian" rulers who rigged themselves into power.

I would also love you to explain the success of scandinavian countries who have the highest standard of living in the world. When you talk of Free education I have a friend who just went back to her native Sweden to go to medical school for free because she couldn't afford the cost of studying in the US. Are you going to say that Sweden is not a democracy?


Your arguments are better directed at Capitalism as an economic system not democracy as a political one. Libya can be the utopia you all claim it is without one man and his family terrorising the whole country like it is his personal property. If Libya was such a paradise there would not be such a popular uprising. People deserve not to live in fear.

PS. The people have entered Gaddafi's compound and are searching the rooms.

Does NIgeria really have a functioning democracy?

Haha. I'm not attempting to censor anyone but i think it says a lot about you if you can't get your point across without cursing. Its simplymy observation that most arguments on nairaland degenerate into slanging matches. The fact is that people have different opinions and you most definitely wouldn't go around in the real world calling people f**king b*****ds becasue they don't agree with you. You'll very quickly meet someone who will put you in your place.  

Builder:

MILEHIGH06, u are a complete bastar.d, if u can read u will summarise that im just expressing my compassion for the lbyans killed by NATO and condeming the NATO forces and citizens of uk, italians and french coming to raid the libyan resources.

you foking basta.rd, if u cant read and understand simple passage u berra go back to schl, if u are so concern about Gadaffi spending 41 years why dont u tell NATO to invade syria, saudi arabia or the queen of england for been so long on the throne, u foking Arrow, e no go better for u milehig06

Civility is quite uncommon on this site.

nolongTing:

Did NATO drop Thousands of Bombs or not?

Benghazi had civil unrest, what did you expect the government to do?

Why have NATO not Bombed Syria, Yemen and Bahrain?

Did NATO not say it wanted to protect civilians?

Yes the NATO members will help Libya spend the $100BN in their banks whilst helping themselves to the largest oil reserves in Africa    I'm sure peace will return quickly as well, lol!  

Don't give a flying sh^&t about Gaddafi, I just think an oil grab should not be masqueraded as protection of human rights, are you a NATO cheerleader by any chance?

I don't care about Gaddafi or Nato either, my opinions are based purely on principle. If you remember how this all started you'll know that no one was going to come to the aid of these people even when they were begging for help. Gaddafi brought this all on himself. He saw what was happening in Tunisia, Bahrain, Egypt etc and decided to crush the peaceful protests by threatening the whole city with death. Now look at this objectively and tell me how a dictator of 43 yrs should be tolerated by his people when they see those around them fighting for and celebrating freedom?

Nato gave them help the only way they could, suppported them, and helped them throw of oppression. If you question NATO's motives, I can't defend them because i don't know what they're thinking and neither do you. On the other hand, the situation at hand called for their support and its up to the Libyan people who called them in to get rid of them and decide their own future. You can't support a dictators wishes against the will of the people

nolongTing:

lol! They have already destroyed their country with NATO Libya will not recover in 20 years from now - they have destroyed themselves. [size=13pt]This is not a revolution its self-destruction[/size].

Seems you're given to hyperbole. Nato did not destroy the country, Gaddafi did. He was the one that threatened to level Benghazi in the first place. They haven't destroyed themselves. Nato has helped Libyans determine their own future. If anything what happens now will be rebuilding with help from other countries.

Unless of coourse you are a Gaddafi supporter?

nolongTing:


[size=13pt]Spokesman says presidential Guard surrender is a load of crap, oh! Rebels are running for their lives out of Tripoli back to the east! [/size]

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/


See for yourself

Presidential Guard has surrendered.

heynew:

whoever wins this war Libya is still doomed, how will all this weapons be retrieved from this rebels, after the fall of Gaddafi Libya will definitely be a lawless state,

This is not Nigeria where it is everyone for himself. These people are united and fighting for a cause. I doubt they'll destroy the country they have fought so long for

On al-jazeera gaddafi is literally begging people to come and fight for him. This is what happens to tyrants.

Saif Gaddafi , Muammar's son has been arrested.

Libyan leader Muammar Gaddafi has pledged once again to remain in Tripoli until the end, as opposition fighters battled their way towards the capital to reinforce rebels who rose up in the city overnight.

Fighting continued into Sunday morning in a few central and eastern neighbourhoods, and rebel flags were raised over some buildings, witnesses said. Much of the population took cover inside their homes.

The clashes came a day after forces loyal to Gaddafi used heavy machine guns and mortars to confront lightly armed opposition forces and protesters who took to the streets.

As opposition fighters continued what they called their "final push" for the capital, Gaddafi addressed the nation in an audio message aired on state television on Sunday.

In it, he refused to surrender and pledged to emerge "victorious" from the fighting for Tripoli. He also called on the people of Libya to come from all regions to liberate Tripoli, saying he was in the city with them and that together they would fight to the end.

"We will not, we will not abandon Tripoli to the occupants and their agents. I am with you in this battle," he said.

"We do not surrender and, by God's grace, we will emerge victorious."

'Take over Tajoura'

He called on his supporters to "march on (the district of) Tajoura in tens of thousands to purge the officials of the colonisers," in a reference to the NATO-backed rebels.

"Today we must take over Tajoura. I fear, if you let them, they will destroy Tripoli," he warned.

Meanwhile, outside of Tripoli, rebel fighters closed in. They advanced tens of kilometres from Zawiyah, to the west, seizing the town of al-Mayah and putting themselves within several kilometres of the capital's suburbs. Other rebel formations remained further way, stationed to the south, in Gharyan, and to the east, in Zlitan.

Despite the greatest challenge yet to his power, Gaddafi has remained pugnacious. In a telephoned audio address a day earlier, he exhorted his followers and congratulated them for defeating the "rats".

His most prominent son, Saif al-Islam, also gave a televised speech, saying the regime did not know how to raise the "white flag" of surrender.

Regime uses mortars and anti-aircraft guns
Rebels in the west have taken numerous towns and hundreds of kilometres of ground in the past month.

Meanwhile, gunfire and explosions were reported near the Bab al-Aziziyah - a sprawling regime command and control compound - and in the Souq al-Jomaa and Abu Sita neighbourhoods.

Rebels said some regime troops defending the Mitiga air base in the capital had abandoned their posts, though mass defections were not reported.

Taher, a resident near the Bab al-Aziziyah, told Al Jazeera that men in his neighbourhood, some of whom were armed with AK-47 assault rifles and rocket-propelled grenade launchers, had begun protesting last night and blocked the roads.

Around 30 to 40 regime security forces responded on Sunday morning with assault rifles and anti-aircraft guns. Some took positions on the rooftops of the nearby Nigerian Embassy and an eye clinic and opened fire, forcing the men to take cover inside the walled compounds of neighbourhood homes.

Youssef, another Tripoli resident who lives in the Abu Sita neighbourhood, said regime gunmen had taken positions on the top of the nearby Libyana mobile company building and were firing indiscriminately, as other forces launched mortar rounds. The streets in the area were deserted, he said, as occasional gunfire and booming explosions could be heard in the background.

The rebel flag, a tricoloured emblem of the country's first post-colonial days, flew over many buildings in the neighbourhood, he said.

"We are waiting for the revolutionaries to come to conquer Tripoli, because we don't have weapons to defend ourselves," he said.

"Gaddafi troops are using heavy artillery and heavy weapons, and we don't know what's going to
happen in the next two to three hours."

Government said rebels 'dealt with'

Protests began at around 9pm local time on Saturday, as residents took to the streets in numerous areas of the capital, many of them emerging from mosques and chanting "God is great".

Expatriate Libyans speaking to family members in the capital said men went out to protest, some with weapons, while children and women were asked to stay home. Meanwhile, NATO aircraft reportedly carried out bombing raids after nightfall.

Government spokesman Moussa Ibrahim earlier said rebels had tried to attack Tripoli but had been "dealt with".

Ibrahim said that pro-regime volunteers had repelled attacks in several neighbourhoods. He dismissed mounting speculation that the regime was on the brink, but more gunfire was heard after he spoke on television.

'Operation Mermaid Dawn'

A senior official in the rebel National Transitional Council (NTC) said on Sunday that operations in Tripoli were co-ordinated between opponents of Gaddafi in the city and the rebels in the east.

"The zero hour has started. The rebels in Tripoli have risen up," said Abdel Hafiz Ghoga, vice-chairman of the NTC, in the eastern city of Benghazi.

"There is co-ordination with the rebels in Tripoli. This was a pre-set plan. They've been preparing for a while. There's co-ordination with the rebels approaching from the east, west and south," he said.
Click here for more of Al Jazeera's special coverage

Colonel Fadlallah Haroun, a military commander in Benghazi, said the battles marked the beginning of Operation Mermaid Dawn. Tripoli's nickname in Libya is "Bride of the Sea," or mermaid.

Haroun told the AP news agency that weapons were assembled and sent by tugboats to Tripoli on Friday night.

"The fighters in Tripoli are rising up in two places at the moment - some are in the Tajoura neighbourhood and the other is near the Matiga airport," he told Al-Jazeera.

Tajoura has been known since the beginning of the uprising in February as one of the Tripoli neighbourhoods most openly opposed to Gaddafi's rule. The Matiga airport is located in the city, while the international airport is located around 30km south.

A rebel representative for Tripoli on the NTC told AP that rebels were surrounding almost every neighbourhood in the capital, and there was especially heavy fighting in Fashloum, Tajoura and Souq al-Jomaa.

In Benghazi, thousands of Libyans celebrated in the main city square, shooting fireworks and guns into the air, and waving rebel flags.


http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/inpictures/2011/08/201182191115411122.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/news/africa/2011/08/201182193129278233.html

http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/

Hahaha. Nigerians never change.

Now i know why Nigeria would always be like this. It is because Nigerians would never hesitate to find excuses for the most ridiculous behaviour by people that are meant to be serving them.

I'm sure if Abacha was still alive today all these people would be saying that its not his fault that he's killing political opponents because its not easy. Unbelievable.

Wow, just wow. Who in his right thinking mind says the following:

donfeco1:

ITS VERY WRONG FOR MUBARACK TO BE PUT IN A CAGE TO COURT, BECAUSE ITS NOT EASY TO BE A LEADER FOR MANY YEARS, EVEN IF HE DID WHAT HAS NOT BEEN DONE BEFORE. ALSO GOD FORGIVES US OUR SINS AND DID NOT PUNISH US, AM NOT SAYING THAT HE SHOULD NOT STAND FOR HIS TRIAL BUT IN A GOOD WAY AND A MORE RESPECTED WAY PLEASE, GOD BLESS YOU ALL

My mouth has been hanging open reading the unbelievable things on this thread. As in I don't even know where to start with the above statement.

Christ have mercy. The amount of ignorance shown here is remarkable. From those that suggest that Europeans would never do such a thing (French Revolution anyone), to those who have been so abused by the succession of corrupt and unaccountable leaders in Nigeria over the years that they wouldn't have the spine to lift a finger  against those same parasites in power. Why else is it that we can confidently stand and proclaim that such revolutions would never happen in Naija if we weren't so lily-livered and full of so-called "respect" for leaders that think our lives are theirs to do what they wish with.

Obasanjo even has mouth to talk. In an ideal world he'll be locked away in solitary in Kiri-kiri for crimes against the people of Nigeria in particular and humanity in general. The occupant of a leadership position is a servant to the people, not some special being who needs to be treated with reverence. Even the pope is not treated the way some of you want this heartless dictator treated.

There is a big difference between respecting someone as a human being, and treating that same person specially simply because he occupied the highest office in the land. There is even less justification when that person was a brutal dictator who ruled by fear and handed out death penalties like cookies.

well if they'd rather die from polio, we can't stop them

I'm not even going to start analysing the article for you because its midnight and I'm tired but if your GEJ-coloured glasses are stopping you from seeing what Abati was saying I can't help you. However I didn't mention tenure elongation as part of my argument. In fact, I have not even put forward any theories on what jonathan is planning so your point does not apply to me.

What i did say (not quite as explicitly) was that the bill that Abati was introducing to the nation in his press release last week was the same thing he was against as an editor for the guardian. Whether he did or did not entertain the idea that it might be a solution to the country's problems is not important because the overwhelming conclusion to be made was that he was against the idea and thought it a betrayal of his mandate (however fraudulently won) and the people's faith especially as jonathan is on the "threshold of history" (Abati's words).

I see what Beaf and co are tying to do and it will not work because there are people here too smart for that nonsense. Deliberately ignoring the gist of the full article which @okada_man has graciously provided and trying to distract us by focusing on irrelevant things like whether he said "tenure elongation" does not cut it. The point is that Reuben Abati has sold his soul as a voice of the people and is now speaking for the very people whose twisted ideas he has condemned for the longest time. I can only think of one reason why: he has become tired of being in the opposition and in the trusted tradition of the typical Nigerian has decided to get his own share of the national cake by joining the establishment.

Its a big big shame.

It was not even done in the name of christianity. They say he is a neo-nazi and if you know anything about them you wouldn't call them christians, not by a long shot. He is extremely right-wing, yes, but not christian. They are two different things.

tmi

tmi

Actually just finished reading saro's autobiography that spans post-independence Nigeria and all through the war. The OP is actually a quote from a part of the book. I was hoping to start a topic on the said book but I haven't found the time to scan relevant sections so we can all read it. I don't know if anyone else has read it but if you do, you will see how his antipathy towards Ojukwu developed and how badly minorities have been treated over the years both in Nigeria and in Biafra. Personally, from what i've observed the majority ethnic groups in Nigeria have a lot to answer for.

I'm a bit rushed for time but later today i'll come back and explain what i mean. Btw even though I'm yoruba i have no agenda here just a fascination with this country's history.

maclatunji:

^^^ Your points are noted, would you venture to suggest solutions to the problem?

To be honest it will need a phenomenal amount of willpower and vision as well as a re-education of the masses. If we as individuals can start holding ourselves to higher standards and stop trying to find excuses for the mistakes we make that would be a great starting point and we would be less likely to excuse others.

There is no shortcut to success. Imagine a case where I as an Ibadan man got into a taxi in Ogbomoso some years ago and the driver was talking to another passenger about how all the ibadan people were criticising the corrupt alao-akala only because as an Ogbomoso man he was now sharing the wealth with ogbomoso people instead of keeping it in Ibadan. Do you know what their definition of sharing the wealth was? Akala was coming on the weekends to visit and every time he would come he would distribute money and bags of rice to the thugs that gathered around his house! As long as they could get money to chop for that week they were fine with him robbing the state coffers for his own personal gain. That's why Deep Soul can afford to tell us that we would change our tune if it was our brother taking the job.