shahan!

stop making wahala here for a moment and hop to The Oil and The Mantle thread. I need your input.

@ lafile

lol! It is true. This same "prophet" though has an avid following. People also bring extra virgin olive oil for him to pray over and take home.  My mother invited a prayer group over and they "anointed" all the walls with oil 

I think we have taken it to the extreme.

Shahan, what's your take on this topic?

Jen33:

The same way your Church fathers and their missionaries mocked and insulted our ancient religions before brainwashing our people with their fairytales.

The ''missionaries'' minced no words in dismissing non-Christian beliefs as 'heathen' - just like contemporary Christians.

You are in no position to complain.

Christianity murdered THOUSANDS of people back in the day, to keep their falsifications quiet.

What do you think the Inquisition was about?

Well I'm not complaining. I actually find your ranting entertaining. However you might want to consider separating religious zealotry from the true christianity. Modern day and historical atrocities were carried out in the name of religion, and not necessarily only the christian religion.

My personal opinion about the wars of David et al, is that God had already judged these people as condemned and with good reason. They pracitised witchcraft and served idols, and we all know how much God abhors idolatry.

But thank God for Jesus Christ who has made a new covenant between us and God, so that His mercy now goes before judgement and the wicked among us still have time to correct their way because of the grace of God.

Why dwell so much on the past when Jesus has given us a greater promise of the future?

Jen33:

Looking ayt the catalogue of atrocities listed above, and committed by a supposedly loving God, it will amount to the most remarkable suspension of common sense to regard such a
hideous creature with anything other than opprobrium and horror.

Why on earth you'd wish to worship a bloodthirsty monster that orders rape, ONLY GOD KNOWS.

I guess for the same reason you worship a god that allows you to continuously insult, mock and disrepect others for having a different belief than your own?

by your fruit you shall know them!

Please, this mischievous little boy Jen is amusing. On his other thread The Christian God Is Impossible, he claims to believe in God, but not the Bible. However he has yet to determine in which God he believes.

He is a confused child who's reading too much of the wrong literature. Eventually he will run of out heat and become tired when he can't prove anything he's claiming.

Look forward to another cut and paste 100,000 word passage of literary excreta.

Jen,

What you're saying is that you do not believe in the BIBLE which contradicts the spirit behind your post. Next time you should try to be less inflammatory.

In any case, if you don't believe in the Bible then that's your choice, however, you should remember that
(licking fingers and flipping through pages of Bible)

2 Timothy 3:16-17 says that "all scripture is given by inspiration of God [i](Yahweh, Jehovah, the I Am that I Am, JESUS),
and is PROFITABLE, for REPROOF, for CORRECTION, for INSTRUCTION IN RIGHTEOUSNESS:

That the man of God may be perfect (complete), throughly furnished until all good works.

Jen33:

Trini girl said:

It is the arrogance and Ignorance of people like you that accounts for such infantile condenscension among Christian folk, that deludes them in just about all aspects of existence.

You - utterly without foundation - equate belief in the Christian god with belief IN God, STUPIDLY ASSUMING that they necessarily MUST mean one and the same thing.

Let me tell you something, most reasonably exposed and thoughtful people realise that the ''God'' of the Bible IS NOT God.

I actually believe in God, contrary to what you wrote.

But I do not believe the Bible is an account of God's actions or inactions with regard to humans on earth, now or in the past.

And I'll show you why in my next post. 

well well well, and by their fruit you shall know them. 

Fortunately there is only one God. However He goes by many names according to His awesome EMOTIVE, OMPNIPOTENT,OMNICIENT wonderful nature (I love Him so):-

Elohim
Jehovah
El shaddai
Adonai
Jehovah Jireh
Jehovah M'Kaddesh
Jehovah Nissi
Jehovah Rophe
Jehovah Shalom
Jehovah Tsidekenu
Jehovah Rohi
Jehovah Shammah
Jehovah Tsebaoth
Jehovah Makkeh
Jehovah Gmolah
Jehovah Elohay
El Elyon
Jehovah Eloheenu
and Jehovah El-Elohe-Israel

I'm afraid that if the God you claim to believe in doesn't go by any of those names, it is not God, perhaps some spirit that people claim to be a god, like Ra, or Shiva.  But thankfully our God is the King of kings, and the Lord of lords and all things are SUBJECT to Him.  All idols are crushed under his feet! Yup, He's a terrible God that destroys everything that rises up against the knowledge of Him. 

Aint He grand! Don't you just love Him 

"for now we know in part, and see in part, but then we shall know fully, even as we are fully known"

Blessed are they who have not see and yet believe!

Falling in love is a form of temporary insanity!

One does not "fall" in love, one "grows" in love.

Selah

kanmosyl:

Hello my people,

Please i need someone to tell me if it is very important for guys to pay bride price because to me i see it as buying the lady from the parents and whatever you purchase , since ownership has been transferred u can treat it anyhow u want it. Waiting for comments.

Pay the bride price and keep quiet! If not leave de people girl child where she is! Nonsense! ah ah!


Just kidding.
Seriously, I think the payment of a bride price doesn't symbolise ownership but the ability of the guy to able to provide well for the girl he intends to marry according to tradition. It shows that their daughter will not live a life a poverty or a level lower than that to which she is accustomed. (I stand to be corrected)

If you choose to marry traditionally, it is inevitable.

How you treat your wife should not be as a possession, but as outlined in the Word of God.

Unfortunately, if you have heard the message of salvation and redemption to God through Jesus Christ and rejected it for whatever reason,  God will not be able to save you from the second death.

It is for this very reason that he sent his son to die.  To give us a pathway to salvation through the remission of inherent sin.

He gives us clear guidleness on what is required, spiritual re-birth, confession and baptism.

John 3: 2-8

, "Rabbi, we know you are a teacher who has come from God. For no one could perform the miraculous signs you are doing if God were not with him."

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again."

"How can a man be born when he is old?" Nicodemus asked. "Surely he cannot enter a second time into his mother's womb to be born!"

Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit.

Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.

You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.'

The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."

---------------------------------
Romans 10: 9-10
That if you confess with your mouth, "Jesus is Lord," and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved. For it is with your heart that you believe and are justified, and it is with your mouth that you confess and are saved.

Ephesians 2: 8-9

For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

"Good people" will not enter into the Kingdom of God if they are not born again. Muslims if they are not converted will not enter into the Kingdon of heaven. 

Ignorance of truth does not make you exempt from the consequence. I believe the goodness of God makes it possible for each person to hear the good news of the gospel at least once in their lives, and we choose to either accept or reject him.

If you choose not to receive the free gift of salvation, then it is out of God's hands to save you.  You have practised free will.

exu:

Spiritually discerned?

I have no idea what that means.

That sounds like something only a Christian would understand.

You seem dead set on disproving your own claim:

_{** sigh **}


SPIRITUAL : of or relating to supernatural beings or phenomena

DISCERNMENT: a power to see what is not evident to the average mind

The spirit of God shows man truth when man is ready to receive it.

exu:

Also,

Anyone who ever took the time out to look at the Bible objectively probably wouldn't come to an opinion of which you approve of.

Well I guess why the Bible is to be spiritually discerned, otherwise it's just dead letter.

@ Exu

The lies and error mentioned in that article are too many for me to get into paragraph by paragraph.  But if this is what Jen33 believes then it's not wonder his/her concept of God is flawed. In fact, it's a mixture of truth and error, but the truth is only mentioned to take the offensive said to a counter argument.

One such example of error is this:-

God gives humans the opportunity to accept forgiveness for their sin, and all who do will be rewarded with eternal bliss in heaven, but while they are on earth, they must suffer for his sake.

The Word of God clearly contradicts this.  One simple example of this is found below:-

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control.

I suggest that if this person really wants to know truth, that they read the Bible and not look to organized religion and other people's opinion to prove the existence of God. 

You always know who is following the true and living God by their fruit.

Religion vs Relationship is the true contention.

exu:



Why is debate wrong? If something doesn't stand up to reason then maybe it should be scrapped.

You come off sounding as ignorant as she did towards the end of her post. You both need to learn to judge people as individuals, if at all.

Also, since when did 'muslim' become a 'race'? Islam, the last time I checked, was a religion.

When I mentioned muslim and caucasians it was from a stand point of their  culture as opposed to nigerian christians. 

Debate is not wrong at all.  However as I said his/her motive is not really to debate, but to state their position.  Some debates are just a waste of time.

It is my opinion that trying to debate the existence of God is as futile as a christian trying to convince a muslim that Jesus Christ is the son of God, and IS God. 

When it comes to atheism the only thing that will convince that person of the existence of God is a desire to know truth or at least be curious about it, and a PERSONAL experience with the same God they deny.

God defends Himself.

Jen33:

The saddest thing here is that one posts stuff like this on other (non black - it has to be said) forums, and one is never abused and dissed like this but rather engaged in debate by those who hold even wildly opposing views.

But for our dear Naija/Africo/Carib converts their own idea of a ''response'' is to term you a personification of the devil without further discussion.

It's really funny when you think about it.

No wonder them say we no get sense.

If you're being accomodated in a satisfactory manner on other website forums regarding this topic, then I suggest you return there and continue your scholastic debate as to your thoughts of the non existence of God.

Most of the in the Religion forum are quite open to passionate debate that goes somewhere eventually.

However, Nigerians I have learned, are very passionate about their belief in God. I sense that you already know this, therefore your motive for starting this thread is not one of exchanging ideas, but to try and agitate and annoy christians here on this forum.

In fact, your views are not even yours, but regurgitated lies as is evident in your spurious cutting and pasting of lengthy passages of kaka!

Since your motive is bereft of integrity, no one here will take you seriously. In fact, perhaps if you were not so transparent in your childish ambitions to anger believers in Christ, you may have been entertained.

However, it is evident that you lack the intellectual capacity to even cover the true motive behind this post.

I am quite sure this topic has already been covered on Nairaland, please search and find it and read it to your pleasure.

What I find "sad" are the people who allegedly encouraged you in this debate. It is no surprise that they were "non black" as you put it, because african people have a strong spiritual, moral and cultural identity, sadly lacking in "non black" races (I'm assuming you mean caucasian and perhaps muslim here).

If that's the case then most definitely they will fall for your nonsense. But for us who know that word of God and can discern the spirit, you're barking up the wrong tree.

I've read your posts. You're obviously full of self hatred and bitterness as a "black" person.

What do you feel God did that disappointed you so much that you had to turn and deny his very existence? What happened to make you so angry at Him? Maybe we should address that instead.

Blessings

This is an interesting topic.

A long time ago I attended this church, the "Prophet" prayed over hundreds of purple handkerchiefs and the church was selling them to visitors at full price, and members at a discount.

I bought one. (like I said it was a long time ago)

I am very open minded to the things of God. However, I'm not aware of the scriptural foundation of these "material mediums" so I'll reserve my opinion until I can see evidence in scripture supporting same.

I'm aware of the woman who touched Jesus' garment and virtue left him. But wasn't this healing through an act of faith rather than actual power being in the garment itself? Or perhaps I am misappropriating this scripture to the topic.

Mark 5: 25-34

And a woman was there who had been subject to bleeding for twelve years. She had suffered a great deal under the care of many doctors and had spent all she had, yet instead of getting better she grew worse. When she heard about Jesus, she came up behind him in the crowd and touched his cloak, because she thought, "If I just touch his clothes, I will be healed."

Immediately her bleeding stopped and she felt in her body that she was freed from her suffering.

At once Jesus realized that power had gone out from him. He turned around in the crowd and asked, "Who touched my clothes?"

"You see the people crowding against you," his disciples answered, "and yet you can ask, 'Who touched me?' "

But Jesus kept looking around to see who had done it.

Then the woman, knowing what had happened to her, came and fell at his feet and, trembling with fear, told him the whole truth.

He said to her, "Daughter, your faith has healed you. Go in peace and be freed from your suffering."

********
So it's her faith that healed her, not the garment.

Another supporting scripture would be in Acts 19: 11-12, which clearly showed these garments as tools of the IMMEDIATE healing power of God.

God did extraordinary miracles through Paul, so that even handkerchiefs and aprons that had touched him were taken to the sick, and their illnesses were cured and the evil spirits left them.

So, since the purpose of these handkercheifs and aprons were to heal the sick and exorcise demons, how is it that nowadays they're being called "prayer handkerchiefs" and sold at a price?

Do people get healed and demons run when they touch them?

The intructions for my handkerchief to be effective went like this:-

1. Keep it on you body at all times
2. When you pray, hold it in your hand
3. If you're believing God for something and the moment has come ex waiting to hear the verdict of your relatives trial,
be sure to hold it tight in the court room and pray continually for a positive outcome.

I can tell you outright, I walked around with the thing for one day and the rest of it's life was spent somewhere in my linen closet under sheets I hardly use.

Now please, shed some let and let me know if this is at all scriptural. I'm open to change my view that it is not.

shahan,

you just can't help yourself can you.

you go girl!

Hi Ladies!

yes I'm an Islander.     They call us Trinidadians if you're born in Trinidad and Tobagonian if u were born in Tobago.  It's one Republic, but Tobago is quieter and slower paced, people are friendlier, more of a tourism spot, Trinidad is more commercial, must faster pace.

We call ourselves Trinbagonians 

I was so amused by pidgin that I had to start learning it from the friends I made on Nairaland that I talk to on Yahoo, so sometimes I interject it here and there for emphasis. 

But sissi is right, trini and nigerians have a similar pidgin english we use, we just call it local dialect or colloquialism. 

So it's easier for me to understand pidgin than other folk I guess. 

Blue! No mind, I am Nigerian when i have to be ooo, abeg, doh bring wahala for me here on this blessed day. 

Stilettos:

so u are not nigerian trini

No I'm not. I'm from Trinidad and Tobago

I would express my view on this but I'm a little gun shy when it comes to saying things about Nigerians on this forum since I was banned for same    Hi  Seun! How r u? Miss me? 

degubi:

amazing how easy it is for us to twist the bible to suit our own purpose,trini do not worry the holy spirit is able to bring about conviction just seek his help if u are willing and he will open your heart.

Who is this Danfo driver trying to come in here and again make assumptions about my personal life and/or spiritual walk.
Please, use your taxi money for better things than paying internet cafe fees to come here and type patronising rubbish for me to read.

I am tired of you people on this thread.  Nonsense! Express your view and move on! Leave my personal life out of it!   
Idiot!

Thank you BobbyAf!

_{** sigh **}

Please people end this thread. I rather see a debate between Islam and Christianity than this rubbish. Leave this fool alone!

What better way to silence a fool than by silence!

End this thread now please.

You guys are too good for this.

Amby:

trini_girl (f)

Issues relating to God and spirituality is not what we establish by flexing muscle but by relying on divine revelation, prompting and guide of the Holy spirit.

Girlfriend you haven't seen my muscles yet.  I aint even warmed up.  
However, it's interesting that you refer to righteous indignation as "flexing muscle".  
On reading this I was so filled with anger, because what catholics do in praying to Mary is IDOLATRY.  
God is a jealous God.  He truly hates idol worship. It is the equivalent of FORNICATION.  This is what catholics practise when they pray to Mary instead of God himself.  And it IS NONSENSE to say the least! It is ABOMINATION!

Amby:

Only Holy Spirit offers spiritual insight to enable the faithfuls understand the words of the scripture. You fail to show knowledge that Mary had known who Jesus was before anyone else. Understand as well that she has pondered every word and message of God in her heart. Jesus only confirmed to her what she know of Him (Christ the Saviour). Why was the scripture silent from the time Jesus made the above statement (when He was twelve years) till when He started His public ministry at age thirty? Did you ask?

Why is it that she (Mary) was the first to request for a miracle that led to Jesus turning water to wine? Did you ask?

I don't understand your line of reasoning here, but a good point to note is Jesus' response to Mary's request for this miracle.  Did He not say "IT IS NOT YET MY TIME?"

If she was so in tune with the spirit, why did she not know this? Why did she request a miracle out of divine timing?
She was just a woman my dear.  Correct your actions.

Amby:

Why was it that even when Jesus was led to be crucified with all the torments, scourges and excruciating pains she (Mary) never uttered a ord? "This child is for the rising and falling of many in Israel but a sword will pierce your soul" (Simeon's utterance at the presentation of Jesus to the temple).

Why did you not refer to John 19:26-27; where Jesus handed His mother to the disciple He loves most who took custody of Mary afterwards. Is it a wonder that out of the twelve disciples it's only this disciple that did not suffer martyrdom.

For further reading please refer to Revelation 12. May the Lord almighty send the Holy Spirit to guide you to the knowledge of the truth.

Regards.

It sounds like you have more questions than you do answers.  That's as good as a confession of error.
No one is disregarding Mary's important role in the divine conception.  

The contention is that she is the mother of God.  She is NOT! If you have scripture to prove to me that she is, I look forward to it expectantly.

Amby:

trini_girl (f)

Issues relating to God and spirituality is not what we establish by flexing muscle but by relying on divine revelation, prompting and guide of the Holy spirit.

Girlfriend you haven't seen my muscles yet.  I aint even warmed up.  
However, it's interesting that you refer to righteous indignations as "flexing muscle".  
On reading this I was filled with anger, because what catholics do in praying to Mary is IDOLATRY.  
God is a jealous God.  He truly hates idol worship. It is the equivalent of FORNICATION.  This is what catholics practise when they pray to Mary instead of God himself.  And is IS NONSENSE! Too say the least! It is ABOMINATION!

Amby:

Only Holy Spirit offers spiritual insight to enable the faithfuls understand the words of the scripture. You fail to show knowledge that Mary had known who Jesus was before anyone else. Understand as well that she has pondered every word and message of God in her heart. Jesus only confirmed to her what she know of Him (Christ the Saviour). Why was the scripture silent from the time Jesus made the above statement (when He was twelve years) till when He started His public ministry at age thirty? Did you ask?

Amby:

Why is it that she (Mary) was the first to request for a miracle that led to Jesus turning water to wine? Did you ask?

I don't understand your line of reasoning here, but a good point to note is Jesus' response to Mary's request for this miracle.  Did He not say "IT IS NOT YET MY TIME?"

If she was so in tune with the spirit, why did she not know this? Why did she request a miracle out of divine timing?
She was just a woman my dear.  Correct your actions.

Amby:

Why was it that even when Jesus was led to be crucified with all the torments, scourges and excruciating pains she (Mary) never uttered a ord? "This child is for the rising and falling of many in Israel but a sword will pierce your soul" (Simeon's utterance at the presentation of Jesus to the temple).

Why did you not refer to John 19:26-27; where Jesus handed His mother to the disciple He loves most who took custody of Mary afterwards. Is it a wonder that out of the twelve disciples it's only this disciple that did not suffer martyrdom.

For further reading please refer to Revelation 12. May the Lord almighty send the Holy Spirit to guide you to the knowledge of the truth.

Regards.

It sounds like you have more questions than you do answers.  That's as good as a confession of error.
No one is disregarding Mary's important role in the divine conception.  

The contention is that she is the mother of God.  She is NOT! If you have scripture to prove to me that she is, I look forward to it expectantly.

shahan:

Hooray - just as yours "ultimately counts for nothing" and amounts to "cluelessness"!!

Lol! Quite right. I can't believe he/she/it is trying to taunt us into debate. Obviously it doesn't know who we are. Surely this crass idiot is possessed by a demon of stupidity

shahan:

@trini_girl,

Chei! This trini_babe thinks she's the only one who can appear and disappear without notice!

Anyway, I'm thousands of miles away from naija at the mo, and will be returning to our air-and-noise pollution in naija soon. _{How I hate the feeling that my hols are almost over!}

Shahan my sister! How now! I missed you too.  I see you still have one of your devotees/admirers following you around (mrpataki). 

Hi mrpataki ,   you know I just love giving u a hard time

@ TV

Valentine's Day u say! Well since you dumped me a couple weeks ago Im not sure I qualify anymore  
(I don't forget)

Anyways, I'm great.  All is well.  Just very busy with work these days.  But I missed annoying you guys too much to stay away any longer  

I have much to catch up on, but I have been passively observing this bari kade fellow. Let me come up to speed before I join any existing debate.

Much luv!

goodguy:

If the marriage was sanctioned by God, despite being boxed into it, the couple should work it out by all means.

However, if the reverse is the case, they should go their seperate ways because they were not meant to be together in the first place.  Even God will be glad at this.  Remember the case of Jesus and the Samaritan woman?  (John 4:16-18)

But now, the Big Question is -- How do we know for sure if a marriage is sanctioned by God or not?  I'll leave this to the greater minds to answer.

But one thing I know for sure is this:  ". . . all things work together for good to them that love God. . ."  (Rom 8:28).

Shalom.

More rubbish from the Orthodox jeuvenile of the dead letter church. No one should be "boxed into" marrying anyone else under any circumstance. Marriage is a free will agreement.

"Meant to be together" is an immature notion and a product of a youthful imagination.

The mature way to approach marriage is that when you see someone you believe you can spend the rest of your life with according to what your looking for, once it's mutual, you seek God's blessing and move into the marriage agreement.

It's up to you and your walk with Christ to know if he says, if you marry this person you will be happy or not.

But he will never tell you NOT to marry someone. He never interferes with your free will. In some rare cases, men have gotten clear word from God that this woman is going to be your wife. I met someone like that, and even though they are married, they still have challenges and problems like any other couple.