TV!

I am back! I don't think this forum is the same without us where is shahan and tayoD? Have they taken sabbatical?

Anyway, you are right! Church is not a building or religious affiliation. I see some people say they are a proud Anglican. I hope someday we as christians will realise that our pride should only be in Christ as being one of his born again spirit filled, spirit led, saved by grace disciples.

Mary was and never will be the mother of God.  What nonsense!

Mary was blessed to be the chosen vessel to give birth to Christ.  But all she was, was the mother of Jesus Christ, when He was the SON OF MAN!

In fact, Jesus himself rebuked her when she was frantically looking for him while he was about his father's business when he said "Woman, what do i  have to do with you!"

I have no problem with calling her blessed.  But you know what everyone who accepts Jesus as the savior is blessed.  I am the Blessied Trini Girl! 

The deifying of Mary by the Catholic church is blatantly unscriputural and idol worship.  God is not pleased!

Show me in the scripture where it says to pray THROUGH Mary TO God.

When Jesus clearly taught I AM THE WAY THE TRUTH AND THE LIGHT, NO MAN COMES TO THE FATHER BUT BY ME!

Why have they made this woman into a god in herself? What is this "Hail Mary full of grace ,  pray for us now" garbage!

Did not Jesus warn us of vain repititous prayers? Yet this religion says pray this pray 10 times while rubbing some beads and your prayers will be answered.  Nonsense!

Mary deserves respect just as Paul and the other apostles do, but she was only a vessel used by God for a purpose.

At Jesus' death, he was the Son of Man and still her son biologically, but she was NEVER the mother of God! 

People! Doesn't Jen33's garbage sound familiar?? How hard do you have to look to realize that this imposter is the irreverent REVEREND BACK ON THE PROWL!!! (or perhaps his protoge)

_{*** shakes head and leaves post **}

The Word of God speaks of this fool called Jen33:-

A prudent man keeps his knowledge to himself, but the heart of fools blurts out folly
The fool has said in his heart, "There is no God,"
They are corrupt, and have committed abominable injustice


My advice,

Do not answer a fool according to his folly, or you will be like him yourself.

do not cast your pearls to swine. 

this topic has been covered at least twice already. but it's all summed up in this. you do not have to give 10% of your income to the church on a monthly basis.

Hebrews 7

This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace."

Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever.

Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder!

Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people—that is, their brothers—even though their brothers are descended from Abraham.

This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater.

In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor.


If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come—one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron?

For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law.

He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests.

And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of an indestructible life.

For it is declared:
"You are a priest forever,
in the order of Melchizedek."

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

And it was not without an oath! Others became priests without any oath, but he became a priest with an oath when God said to him:

"The Lord has sworn
and will not change his mind:
'You are a priest forever.' "

Because of this oath, Jesus has become the guarantee of a better covenant.

Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, he has a permanent priesthood.

Therefore he is able to save completely those who come to God through him, because he always lives to intercede for them.

Such a high priest meets our need—one who is holy, blameless, pure, set apart from sinners, exalted above the heavens.

Unlike the other high priests, he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins, and then for the sins of the people.

He sacrificed for their sins once for all when he offered himself.

For the law appoints as high priests men who are weak; but the oath, which came after the law, appointed the Son, who has been made perfect forever.

Hebrews 8: 6-8
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:


GIVE WITH A CHEERFUL HEART WHATEVER YOU CAN! NOT 10%

bari_kade:

@trini_girl,

I actually waited all along to see if you would be persuaded that you were mixing things up before contributing my views. I wonder why the topic states that "Pre-Marital Sex Is Not Fornication", and then you have been holding a view "throughout" that it is actually fornication?

No worries if what is argued for is actually argued against. That was the part I wanted to point out.

Your deliberate attempt to not accede to my point is obvious and unamusing. I would hope for your sake that it is truly the case and not the fact you are so bankrupt of the ability to read and understand the content and context therein that you miss the point completely.

bari_kade:

@trini_girl,

Let me assure you - I never mind people using vexed lingo on me, so your "some new type of fool" does not convey what you're going round in circles for.

You've been trying to dribble round the topic in order to defend premarital sex as not fornication. What's the point in your latest definition then confirming that the same pre-marital is actually fornication, and yet deny it again?

I have never denied that pre marital sex is not fornication.  It is not a "latest definition".  If you read the thread in its entirety you would see this.  I am agreeing with you, and have been agreeing with the fact that sex whether it is before or after marriage IS fornication if it is ILLICIT.  Worse for after marriage because its adultery AND fornication.

ILLICIT meaning not permitted, example homosexuality, sleeping with your step mom, prostitution etc etc etc
Is normal sex in a healthy heterosexual relationship disallowed? It is not! Of course it is better to marry, but to say that pre marital sex within the right parameters is sin? I don't buy it.  I still wait for the proof. 

If you see that as going around in circles then the only one spinnig is you.  I have held this opinion througout this thread.

Lalas,

Does the Bible categorically state that you should take a bath everyday? And yet one would hope you practice that type of hygiene. 

Let's not go through the verbal gymnastics of what the Bible explicitly or implicitly states.  What I have noticed is that the gender that has most vociferously and vehemently opposed this opinion and spurted out insults and insinuations about my personal life, are MEN. 

I have repeatedly asked if the people who oppose this are virgins, one or two are, and as a result really should not even contribute because their view is biased.

The fact is, men want virgins to take as wives.  The neanderthal mindset is especially prevelant with african men.  Nonsense.

What is moral and immoral is to be judged against the word of God.  The word of god does not say that fornication is sex between a man and a woman in a relationship. 

When you can show me scripture that hasn't been shown before in an attempt to disprove this, which I am quite open to, then you will be taken seriously

And yes, I have a problem, with hypocrites like you who act like they can do no wrong and assume too much of people who have an opinion different from their own!

And please show me where in the Bible it say pre marital sex as I have defined it between a man and woman is fornication!

Barricade,

You have to be some new type of fool to not read and understand the clear distinction I have repeatedly shown between FORNICATION before and after marriage.

I have said repeatedly that whether before or outside of marriage, fornication remains the same illicit and illegal sex, which you have AGAIN repeated.

Pre marital or post matrimonial fornication is fornation.

How much simpler can I say it for you to understand.  Sex before marriage is fornication if it is illicit, meaning sex with prostitutes, homosexuality, incest etc.  Sex after marriages is fornication as well, along the same parameters

*sigh*

I think the problem with you people is that you read with the motive of looking for some flaw in mylogic, there is none!

And finally

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner between a man and a woman, who are consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication. It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

The phrase "pre-marital sex" is not found anywhere in the Bible, and Strong's being a Bible concordance and lexicon study of the meanings of root/original words, their context and meaning in Hebrew and Greek, no such definition could be found.

The phrase "pre-marital sex" is one that was created by man to describe sex outside of marriage.

Let me expand my definition a bit at the risk of appearing to contradict myself, since I am also learning more about fornication.

Pre-marital sex (sex before marriage) may be fornication if the sex is ILLICIT, PERVERSE, or UNNATURAL example idolatry, homosexuality/lesbianism, harlotry, whoredom (promiscuity) etc. See above

However, post-marital/matrimonial sex (sex after marriage) can also be fornication and adultery with the same definintion of fornication in each case.

There is no evidence that pre-marital sex with one partner, by consenting adults, in a committed monogamous relationship, over an extended period of time, is fornication. It is not illicit, it is not illegal, it is not immoral. IT IS NOT FORNICATION and IT IS NOT A SIN

The more we learn what fornication truly is, the more we learn that "normal" pre marital sex is not fornication.

Please, this by no means is a free card for having sex. In my opinion sex still remains an enjoyable activity between two consenting, responsible ADULTS, in a long term relationship.

For those of you who missed it:-

The Complete Word Study Old Testament suggests three possible meanings for the Hebrew word "zanah." The first being fornication (pre-marital, illicit sex), the second being adultery (marital, illicit sex), and the third being idolatry (worship of a person or thing besides Yahweh).

context definition of FORNICATION: Illicit sex - which means unlawful, illegal or NON CONVENTIONAL sexual activity for example harlotry, incest, homosexuality etc etc etc.

Any sex before marriage is PRE marital sex
Any sex after marriage is POST matrimonial sex.

Does not mean PRE marital sex with the one you're committed to and monogamous with is a SIN.


Extract from an article:-

FORNICATION: "Going after Strange Flesh"
In the New Testament, "fornication" translates the Greek word porneia ("harlotry" or "prostitution", which Paul and others use broadly to include any illicit sexual activity.

Thus adultery, bestiality, homosexuality, incest, and rape, against all of which there are scriptural laws, are biblically acts of fornication, or, to borrow a phrase from the Letter of Jude (1:7), "going after strange flesh."

In  Ezekiel  illicit sex is almost in a class by himself (see EZEKIEL: TALKING LEWD WOMEN), though certainly the other Old Testament prophets as a group have plenty to say  on the subject (virtually always as a metaphor of Israel's unfaithfulness to Yahweh; see HARLOTRY: "A-WHORING AFTER OTHER GODS:

In the New Testament's book of Revelation, John of Patmos portrays imperial Rome (called "Babylon" as "the great LovePeddler" and "mother of harlots," with whom "the kings of the earth have commited fornication" (17:1-5).

End of extract

solybis:

Trinigirl,

I just went through your comments and various replies on the fornication/premarital sex issue, well i think your starting point in trying to draw a distinction between the two by saying that biblical fornication is not the same as premarital sex, and that the latter is okay is needless.

WRONG! If you had bothered to read further you would have seen where I distinguished between pre and post marital sex as fornication and I agreed that pre marital sex in some instance is in fact fornication if it is ILLICIT sex.  I further went on to define what illicit sex is according to the Strong's Bible concordance.

solybis:

The biblical standards for chastity in cases of 'biblical fornication' (in the context you chose) and premarital sex (even where with a committed partner) remain the same, i.e. no sex before marriage.

Can you back this up with relevant scripture please.

solybis:

However from your various replies, and this is why i say your starting point was needless, it does seem that your basis for assessing the issue is your personal philosophy, which at the end of the day is what it is 'personal'. 

Thank you for stating the obvious

TV01:

Trini Trini_girl?? Where are you? Long time no see/hear/speak! Is all well

Aha! so you missed me! My plan for u has worked.

How now. I've been extremely busy with work. Haven't had time to keep up with what's happening here. Maybe in a couple more days when this project is almost complete.

I dunno about you guys, I was having a good time, but when Seun locked/unlocked the thread it kinda just killed the buzz. I found it disappointing. After all, even if the topic was covered already it was by different people, and the flow of the debate was on an entirely different level, as is obvious in the Christianity and Politics thread. Kind of turned me off. I don't get it. Good way to kill a thread.

@ pataki

please, let's not digress.  I assure you I am quite entertained. not sad at all.  and when i spoke of the intellectual mudslinging rest assured you were excluded. u are not yet at that level.    My brother TV has effortlessly taken the crown and ran with it, no contest. even though it was not his intention. u sir, try too hard.

@ neelsel

doh mind pataki, he usually reverts to his true nature when you sift his theology as wheat.  
but in general he's a nice guy.

glad to see another caribbean lady on nairaland.

lol!! I love nairaland.  These ingenious insinuated intelluctual insults and mud slinging don pass over my head o.  Ah not able.

Shahan whey u dey girl! Come see how these "men of God" purport insult implicitly and hide behind "God bless" then storm off with their nose in the air! lol

Abeg doh kill me on nairaland today. 

Okay guys calm down now.

Although by no means will I try to contend with you gentlemen (being a woman and all) _{**directed at TV**},   ,here's my simple take after following this thread.

There seems to be an erroneous intermingling of the definitions of government, politics, democracy and sovereignty as they relate to the kingdom of God.

A loose definition of politics says it is the total complex of relations between people living in society. (you know I like my words and meanings). So there can be party politics (ex in gov't), people politics (ex in communities) as so on.  The driving force is to encourage so called equity, fairness, cohesiveness and a better standard of living for all.

A government is defined as  the organization, machinery, or agency through which a political unit exercises authority and performs functions, and may not neccesarily be a government ordained by Jehovah God.  It could be an Islamic government, a Hindu government.   In scripture, where it was declared that the government shall be upon His shoulders, referred to heavenly government, not earthly. A govenment can also be capitalist, communist, democratic, monarchical etc.

Democracy is defined as a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections.

Sovereignty is defined as  supreme power especially over a body politic, freedom from external control, AUTONOMY, controlling influence.

If we take the above into consideration then it is safe to assume that:-

1.  God is NOT a politician.  However, He is Sovereign, and acting as Sovereign rules autonomously non-democratic government of heaven.

2.  There ARE "political" representatives and a political establishment in God's government.  However,  again, they do not practice democracy.  They carry out the Sovereign will of God.

3.  Democracy is not something inspired by God.  As I said earlier, it was probably introduced at the entrance of Adamic sin.

The ultimate design was for all to be subject to God's non-democratic government. Can we vote for who we want to be in God's govenment? Can heavenly governemt decide who rules Sovereign?  Do we as christians determine what is best for us democratically?

4.  Earthly governments are NOT established by God, but by the free will of men.  However He can use anyone for his purpose according to prophecy and His will.  All are subject to Him.

5.  Earthly politics deal with the affairs of men, not of God.

6.  Earthly politicians are influenced by the will of the PEOPLE so that they may or may not act on their behalf in carry out laws in their defense protection improve quality of life etc and also to enjoy the POWER.

7.  Heavenly politics deal with the affairs of God, who is not like men or thinks like one.

8.  Earthly politics is about negotiation AND compromise.  Since the latter is the result of the former. 

9.  Heavenly politics is about grace and mercy that triumphs over judgement (thank God) 

I seem to recall this "democracy" when it was tested in the presence of Pontius Pilate (correct me if I'm wrong).  When he was given a choice to free our King, even though he found no fault in him what did he eventually do? He gave in to the will of the people, slayed he who was without sin, and freed the murderer Barabbas, all in the name of DEMOCRACY.

We didn’t do a good job at it then, and it would be fearful to think who we would “vote” for now.  Thank God that heaven is not a democracy I say!

Don't confuse the establishment of kings, judges and lawgivers that God ordained for His people, the Jews, with modern day government and the stench of earthly politics.

In modern day British and American government born out of common law, there is a separation between chruch and state.
It is important for a governement to have the appearance of fairness to and acceptance of all.  Perhaps the early leaders like Ben Franklin encouraged a christian government.  However, Satan's agenda must come to pass where government must maintain the silhouette of godly values. 

Is it not evident what true earthly government encourages? Gay rights? Legalising abortions? Christian bishops? Please.  Not going off topic here.  But it is obvious that God has nothing to do with earthly goverenment at this time.

I fear for a christian who is brave enough to enter into the political arena.

ok Im back. what did i miss!

_{**trini girl shoves popcorn in her mouth and grins at computer screen**}

ayayay! lol!

you tell em TV!!

Chei! I've been missing out on good debate here! I thought this was going to be boring! 

TV01 vs TayoD.  

Wait wait, let me get some popcorn and come back.

_{**trini rushes to kitchen and shoves corn in microwave**}

MR.JOSEPH POON
HANG SENG BANK LTD.
DES VOEUX RD,BRANCH,CENTRAL HONG KONG
HONG KONG.
Email:jos_ponhk1@yahoo.com.hk
Tel/Fax:+85230141326


I am Mr. Joseph Poon director of operations of the Hang Seng Bank Ltd.

I have an obscured business proposal for you. Before the U.S and Iraqi

war our client political party official and a business man Muhannad

al-Hakim, made a numbered fixed deposit for 18 calendar months, value

at Forty Four million Five Hundred Thousand United States Dollars, in

my branch. Upon maturity several notices where sent to him, even during

the war, which began in 2003. Again, after the war another notification

was sent and still no response came from him. We later found out that

Muhannad al-Hakim, his wife and only daughter had been killed during

the war in a gun fire.

http://www.iraqbodycount.net/names.htm

After further investigation it was also discovered that Muhannad

al-Hakim did not declare any next of kin in his official papers,

including the paper work of his bank deposit. He also confided in me,

the last time he was at my office, that no one except me knew of his

deposit in my bank. So, Forty Four million Five Hundred Thousand United

States Dollars is still lying in my bank, and no one will know of it.

What bothers me most is that according to the laws of my country, at

the expiration of 3 years and 6 months the funds will revert to the

ownership of the Hong Kong Government if nobody applies to claim the

funds. Against this backdrop, my suggestion to you is that I will like

you as a foreigner to stand as the next of kin to Muhannad al-Hakim so

that you will be able to receive his funds.

WHAT IS TO BE DONE:

I want you to know that I have everything carefully planned. I have

contacted an attorney that will prepare the necessary documents that

will back you up as the next of kin to Muhannad al-Hakim. All that is

required from you at this stage is to provide me with your Full Names

and Address so that the attorney can commence his job. I will use my

position to influence the move of the funds. After you have been made

the next of kin, the attorney will file for claims on your behalf, and

secure the necessary approval and letter of probate in your favor, for

the move of the funds to an account that will be provided by you.

There is no risk involved at all in this matter, as we are going to

adopt a legalized method and the attorney will prepare all the

necessary documents. Please endeavor to observe utmost discretion in

all matters concerning this issue. Should you be interested please send

me your full names, private phone/fax and current residential address

and finally after that I shall provide you with more details of this

operation. I prefer you to reach me with the below.

Email:jos_ponhk1@yahoo.com.hk

Your earliest response to this letter will be appreciated.

Kind Regards,
Mr. Joseph Poon

Wha? _{**confused expression**}

Hear what, it's 11:30pm here. I'm too tired to even read this properly right now but from what I get so far it sounds like contradicting kaka. I'll hit u up in the morning when I'm coherent again.

Good night.

_{**yawns and leaves thread**}

At the risk of being crucified I will share my thoughts as to why I think some nigerian men may look to caribbean women.

I've had the privilege of becoming close with a few of these guys, and a couple things keep coming up.

1. They believe that Nigerian women are materialistic gold diggers who only go after guys for and with money.
2. They are quick to get married and take them to meet family members for first introduction.
3. They are not good in bed, or rather, they're not adventurous and don't know what to do, especially virgins
(abeg, doh kill de messenger)
4. They hide behind the church
5. They lie a lot for personal benefit.

Unfortunately I haven't gotten to know any nigerian women since I've been here to hear the flip side of this.

If you turn this around, it would seem that they like caribbean women because

1. They believe that Caribbean women don't care about money and are not materialistic
2. They believe the we are loose and will give it up easily without pressuring them into marriage
3. They believe that we are good in bed
4. They believe we don't lie

Hmm.

These are the facts.

My opinion however, is that if a nigerian man meets a trini lady or caribbean lady abroad, i assume it means she's constructive and not a "ghetto breed" as we call them here. (If he meets one in Trini she could be a money grabbin hood rat or a manager so he needs to be vigilant)

If this assumption is true (ie if she's constructive), then she is intelligent and independent, and also knows how to take care of her man (includes cooking) and does not pressure him to get married, because our culture is different from Nigeria's. She has her own goals and ambitions and doesn't necessarily have to be married to complete her life.

If he is a GOOD Nigerian man, then this might seem a refreshing change to him (no pressure). This perhaps explains the preferrence.

Or maybe he's just looking for papers

Common law Donz, it sees committment when two people live together as binding.  Society DOES accept it. And even Biblically God caters for separation, so let's be realistic here. A man and woman living together for an extended period of time in a common law relationship are married in the eyes of the common law.  In the eyes of God, no. But we're not talking about marriage here, we're talking about sex!  

In any event, which dotted line did Adam and Eve sign.  Were they not married? All it took was God's vows. Hmmm.
So maybe common law IS in fact marriage, and all else is CUSTOM.  

Nah just kidding.  But you see my point I hope.  A man and woman committed to each other and living together IS binding.  

Now, for the first time, let me divulge a little personal info . I do not live with a man in a common law relationship. ok?  

If a person gets married there is still a chance they won't be together in the future. Are you saying that marriage is some sort of ball and chain that should be used to feel secure about a relationship?

breez:

In your analysis Trini_girl u wrote: 'My point is, if you are committed to be married to someone, then having sex with that person does not mean you are a fornicator.'

I think the only way to define this commitment is for the man and the woman to sign the dotted lines and hav a certificate to show for their seriousness.

Anything outside this remains a child's play, fun, , that is all there is to it.

Many girls are raising _bastards because they believed in the fantasies outside marriage commitment.

This is not to say that there are no sincere guys (and girls), there are still many of them, but certain principles cannot be compromised. If there is a compromise, then it is at the individual's own risk.

God wants you 100% protected frm all heartbreaks, He wants to preserve the dignity of your person before and after marriage, hence His Law.

I disagree. I think that "signing on the dotted line" is a public indication in the sight of God that you have chosen to spend the rest of your lives together. But committment was decided long before that point. You choose to commit, and as a result of that choice you marry.

I don't believe in this worldly philosphy of "bastards" just because a child is born out of "wedlock". Is that scriptural? Then I guess we are all "bastards" that were adopted by Christ, since we are not Jews.

To say that single parenting is solely based on women who chose to have their child out of marriage is a bit closed minded. Many factors may contribute to it.

I respect your opinion, but I don't believe a man or woman is any less "dignified" if they have sex with someone they love and have been committed to over a long period of time.

A friend of mine told me that in the new testament the bride in those days were virgins. How realistic is it to assume this was true for all women who were married back then, and what if a woman is raped? Is she now unworthy of marriage? Anyway, that's straying, but my original point still stands.

I'm waiting for someone to start a post on the definition of marriage. I don't have the time to post too much these days unfortunately.

dipotepede:

@ Trini_girl

I am very tripped that a female can boldly hold herself in a religious argument without flinching.

You really surprise me and I am very proud of you;

I started reading this thread yesterday from the first page to the eleventh; and I am very impressed with Trini_girl not withstanding some abrasive tendencies.

She brough a point and nobody could nullify it except counter it with arguments that are not valid.

Truth be told, I am forced to reconsider what we term sin; do we just sholve what we are told without questioning it even if not in public but in our private lives;

She has raised a valid point; are we going to sit back and consider or just blindly attack it.

Whether she is right or wrong is not my concern at this moment but that she is able to hold herself and bring out an intelligent point worth considering.

Thanx Trini_girl for given me something to think of;

Dipo Tepede
www.dipotepede.com

Thank YOU Dipo and you are most welcome.

I read this book "Heaven Is So Real" by Choo Nam Thomas.  I think she's a Chinese convert.  As soon as I started reading the book alarms went off in my spirit. 

In her book she claims that Jesus himself came to her and took her to visit heaven over 17 times.  Nothing wrong with that.

But this is what disturbed me, as well as many others who read the book.

1.  Jesus never identified Himself as Messiah, Saviour or Jesus Christ, only "her Lord"
2.  Each visit by this spirit to her manifested in the violent shaking of her body for over 20 minutes at a time
3.  She claims that during her preparation for ministry, Jesus was "preparing" her by shaking her body violently
     for more than 2 hours at a time.  During which certain parts of her body would "lock" then "unlock"
4.  During the preparation she claims that while Jesus was in her room, she also saw demons surrounding him,
     and whe SHE rebuked them they departed.
5.  She preaches that no one is sure of their salvation
6.  She preaches salvation through works.
7.  She claims that Jesus said that he doesn't like people who do not tithe.
8.  She says that Jesus says that he will take the lives of the unsaved so that His name will be glorified.
9.  She repeatedly quotes Jesus as favouring her above all others, and choosing her for end time work
10.  She claims that there is a " barren land" between heaven and hell for "disobedient" christians.

There are so many more anomalies. Too many to mention. But she also claims that Jesus took her to a room, like a warehouse
where there were millions of aborted babies lined up to be collected by their mothers if they make it to heaven. Also, she claims that she and Jesus barbcued fish in heaven, and she and Jesus ate fish together. She says she saw the angel Gabriel, and he's the most angel. He's white with blond hair and blue eyes.

She also claims Jesus came to her on the day before christmas in a beautiful gown and crown and when she asked him why he said he was celebrating his birthday.

She claims that Jesus taught her a spritual dance. In this dance you have to move your hands in a certain way 7 times, etc etc. She started doing this dance by the "spirit" during a church service and the pastor rebuked her.

She says that Jesus was displeased with the pastor and that he will no longer bless that church. She claims that Jesus then instructed her to go TELL the pastor that she WILL be performing the dance on the platform at a particular time.

I found this book distrubing on many levels.

In her online video she says that she has to keep rocking from side because of the "spirit" inside her.  If she sits still her stomach clenches? 

I wish that more people here could read this book and tell me what they think if it's available in Nigeria.  People are debating it all over the net.  I've read where some people say it has caused family members to doubt their very salvation, and others to become depressed.

The thing is it's sugar coated with the gospel of salvation, so people are buying into it. But their are so many underlying deceptions and it's very very subtle.

This is a link to the video on her website where she rocks from side to side.

http://www.choothomas.com/resources.html

Reminds me of a story I read on Ghanaweb where the preacher said he would walk on water like Jesus Christ.



"African Evangelist drowns walking on water

An evangelist who tried replicating Jesus' miracle of walking on water has reportedly drowned off the western coast of Africa.

Pastor Franck Kabele, 35, told his congregation he could repeat the biblical miracle, and he attempted it from a beach in Gabon's capital of Libreville.

"He told churchgoers he'd had a revelation that if he had enough faith, he could walk on water like Jesus," an eyewitness told the Glasgow Daily Record.

"He took his congregation to the beach saying he would walk across the Komo estuary, which takes 20 minutes by boat. He walked into the water, which soon passed over his head and he never came back.""