rationalmind:

Hehehe, and he shoots himself in the foot again. Matter/energy could not be created but something external might have created it

Mr Troll: reread @bold again. You just shot yourself in the foot.

unmask: Who created God?

babylolaroy: @ usisky. pls i beg of you, i dont like dah ur approach of correction cos in the end, it changes nothing. Dnt make me feel like am unjust or inequitable. Ofcos thats not the bone of contention. Av just told somebody in a general opinion dat if a person of the book, christian or jew say salam alaykum to you, den you shud simply say wa alayk..buh if dey didnt say salam first, den yu shudnt extend the salam first to a non believer.

babylolaroy: @devoted one, you are not expected to say salam to a non muslim first. They dont merit that atttibute of Allah and thats trite enough
you can only say 'wa alayk' if they say salaam first

dyfatai: salam alaekum, as a student of knowledge, i asked some of my Aalim dis question a while back, nd i fink dere is a difference of opinion on it. Dere is an Aayat in d quran where Ibrahim (A.S) (....not 2 sure) said salam to his father who was a kafir.

I cld do a little a little research nd come up wif d ayat

dustmalik: Luvly post @Usisky. Makes sense all the way

Akin d archi: For the qUestion about the wisdom behind Sending an unlettered prophet with the message........something I have heard some scholarS say that if he had been able to read pple up till this day wud be doubting his credibilty, thinking he was reading the things he said from a past scripture. Allah knows best

Al-Baqir:

"That the prophet Muhammad was an illiterate man"

Was that my wording? I strongly doubt it. I will appreciate you the more if you can go through my replies to Username's theories.

Here's my exact wording:

"The holy prophet (saws) was not able to write or
read (he was an Ummy which Qur'an itself testifies). One of the uniqueness about Qur'an is how it was IMPRINTED and collected into memory. "

Al-Baqir:

1. Honestly I deliberately used the word 'cannot read or write' rather than "illiterate" in the context of this contemporary world. At least you will agree with me that inability to read or write does not necessarily mean one is foolish or unintelligent.

Al-Baqir:

So far (if you read and digest our conversations well) I have been battling him to prove that English translation of the holy Qur'an does not do justice to the Arabic wording of the Qur'an; thereby, studying Arabic, understanding Arabic, recitation in Arabic is the BEST (I cited an example from sura Nisa vs 1). Remember he's a type that tend to discourage Arabic.

Al-Baqir:

THE ARABIC WORD USED
The exact word used in the holy Qur'an is "UMMY" (pl. UMMIYIN).
Going through many English translated Qur'an, you see "illiterate" or "Unlettered" etc.

Literally that might be the meaning but not necessarily mean that and Qur'anic meaning is quite different entirely. In the Qur'an, it means "GENTILE" or "ONE WHO IS NOT PRIMARILY FAMILIAR WITH A LAW (apparently Moses's Law).

'Gentile' though non-jewish, also mean someone who is not a reader of Torah.

Ref: Edward Lanes Lexicon explain this in detail (vol. 1)

Al-Baqir:

Here's my exact wording:

"The holy prophet (saws) was not able to write or
read (he was an Ummy which Qur'an itself testifies).

Al-Baqir:

THE ARABIC WORD USED
The exact word used in the holy Qur'an is "UMMY" (pl. UMMIYIN).
Going through many English translated Qur'an, you see "illiterate" or "Unlettered" etc.

Literally that might be the meaning but not necessarily mean that and Qur'anic meaning is quite different entirely. In the Qur'an, it means "GENTILE" or "ONE WHO IS NOT PRIMARILY FAMILIAR WITH A LAW (apparently Moses's Law).

beejaay:

are u directly saying that Meccans agression towards the prophet during the early days of Islam was right cos he Muhammed was also commiting Treason by preaching that which contradict the practise of the traditional meccans..... there is a saying that says"he who want equity must come to equity wth clean hands".. if the early muslim fight against their persecution by meccans because they are propagating their own religion (if God could called the meccans unbelievers for persecuting the early muslim as apostate), people should have right to accept or de-accpet (english hard ooo) whatever they want and they have the right to propagate that which they believe in without persecution (cs Prophet Muhammed also said unpainted words to the pagans of meccans threatening them will hellfire of different kinds)...

there is nothing like Islamic state (Islamic state simply means no free-will again which go against the preaching of the Quran)

1n2n3:
what the heck is wrong with this usermane?

1n2n3:
are u a muslim?

1n2n3:
are u a muslim? if u are, you really need work on ur deen by seeking knowledge from d right source i.e Quran and sunnah, and ask from those who really knows.

1n2n3:
May Allah guide you.

tbaba1234:


Question: What was the punishment in the Quran for those who worshipped the calf amongst the children of Israel?

Answer that first... After that we can delve into a proper understanding of what this means.

koonbey:
It sounds like you believe Apostates should be murdered,If that is so;let's hear it,Opinions you can't state confidently and straight-forward are not worth having;trying to talk from both sides of the Mouth only makes you look like a Fool.

Rilwayne001: I can now see that Mr. truthman dnt wanna learn

tbaba1234: Usermane, Is pig fat not part of the meat?

usermane: Peace be on you. Are you a muslim? Pig meat is forbidden but pig oil is not(Qur'an 2:172-173)

Guitarlife: Having taken time to read through this thread carefully, I can smell a calculated attempt by some disgruntled individuals to unfairly malign the shoprite bread.

Its probably due to the threat that shoprite bread might put other substandard breads out of market.

Its unfortunate though , but even more disturbing is the platyform they are using to achieve their vile aims.

A religion that prides itself as being built on truth and peace shouldn't be found peddling rumours.

I hereby call on the moderators of the islam section to halt the attempt of a selfish few to drag the image of the religion in the mud in such shame.

An unverified claim should not be riding on the back of islam to propagate itself.

Its akin to providing a suitable channel for evil to permeate which is rather unfortunate.

How can the moderators who pride themselves as being fair to all fold their arms as some faceless indivuals throw about damaging and unverified claims in a bid to score cheap points.

This is disturbing and Seun needs to do something about unfair and negative tactics like these.

How can this country mve forward? Its just despicable that someone will derive pleasure in bringing down the business of a hardworking person on the premise of a beer parlour rumour.

"I think Mohammed was a terrorist…he was a violent man, a man of war."
(Jerry Falwell interview on 60 Minutes, October 6, 2002)


I’m not sure what’s worse, this statement or the fact that a reputable prime time program would broadcast such views. It’s a disturbing commentary at a time when our world is crying to heal, understand and reconcile.

Five days after this interview, I turn to the internet, surfing religious web sites for enlightenment. The Power that be leads me to the following site which has daily devotionals and thoughts.

I hope we can all draw comfort from the words of wisdom I found that day:

Today's Devotional

October 11th 2002

Old Testament Reading: Jeremiah 7:1-8:22, Psalm 118:1-4, Proverbs 27:5-6

New Testament Reading:
Colossians 2:1-23

There are few if any sins more loathsome in God's sight than hypocrisy. To disregard the King of the universe in one's heart is a great evil, but to outwardly disguise it with religious cosmetics is intolerable…Just why is religious hypocrisy so abominable? …it dares to presume that the all-knowing and all-seeing God of the universe can be deceived by mere formal piety…it utterly blinds its victims so that they not only are incapable of rightly judging themselves, but also become vicious accusers of others.

Flee to God for deliverance from every evil that would threaten to separate you from Him. Particularly pray for deliverance from the blindness of hypocrisy which has its roots in pride.

Today's Thought

October 11th 2002

Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and He will lift you up. (James 4:10 )


This web site I happened to visit was www.falwell.com – yes, Jerry Falwell, who belongs to a denomination of 70 million members and who graces his own ministry with the following Mission Statement:

“To act as both salt and light... reaching the world with the gospel, teaching and training believers, reviving the hearts of God's people and healing the wounds of immorality and godlessness in our nation.”

I then turn to the Quran for inspiration and read:

“Subsequent to them, we sent our messengers. We sent Jesus the son of Mary, and we gave him the Gospel, and we placed in the hearts of his followers kindness and mercy…but they did not uphold the message as they should have.” (57:27)

This verse is not meant to denigrate Christians but rather to remind us that the message of Jesus can lead each one of us to God as long as we truly understand and practice it.

About 70 years earlier, a prominent Muslim leader made a similar remark as Falwell, claiming that Muhammad used a weapon against which no army could fight. I guess Falwell does have a point then. You be the judge as you read the words of this leader addressing his followers:

“I am going to give you such a weapon that the police and the army will not be able to stand against it. It is the weapon of the Prophet, but you are not aware of it. That weapon is patience and righteousness. No power on earth can stand against it…Endure all hardships. If you exercise patience, victory will be yours.” (Badshah Khan from the book Nonviolent Soldier of Islam by Eknath Easwaran)

Badshah Khan was known as the Frontier Gandhi and lived in the North West Frontier Province of India. At the same time Ghandi was leading one of the most inspirational movements in modern history, Badshah Khan was raising the first and only non-violent army in history. Khan awakened 100,000 of the most violent and vengeful people – the Pathans of the Khyber Pass – to resist British rule through non-violence.

Astounded by this non-violent movement, Ghandi visited Khan in 1938. There, Ghandi was asked by a villager, “what does it mean to remove violence from one’s heart?” To which he replied, “It is not just the ability to control one’s anger…it is the complete eradication of anger from the heart. To realize non-violence means to feel within you its strength – soul force – to know God. A person who has known God will be incapable of harboring anger or fear within, no matter how overpowering the cause may be.”

Thousands of non-violent soldiers were killed by the British who were stunned that such strong and resolute warriors did not resist. Badshah Khan exposes the myth that nonviolence has no place in Islam, that only the gentle are capable of it, and that it is useless against powerful oppressors.

This weapon of Muhammad, Badshah Khan, and Ghandi is found in the Quran:

You shall resort to pardon, advocate tolerance…(7:199)

…if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones. You shall resort to patience - and your patience is attainable only with GOD's help. Do not grieve over them, and do not be annoyed by their schemes. GOD is with those who lead a righteous life, and those who are charitable. (16:126-128)

They avoid wrongdoing and vice, and when angered they forgive. (42:37)

…those who pardon and maintain righteousness are rewarded by GOD. He does not love the unjust. (42:40)

Resorting to patience and forgiveness reflects a true strength of character. (42:43)

Therefore, be patient like the messengers before you who possessed strength and resorted to patience…(46:35)

O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant. (49:13)

In 1947, Pakistan and India were granted independence by the British. In 1985, Bashah Khan was nominated for the Nobel Peace Prize. Proving to us today that, “if you resort to patience (instead of revenge), it would be better for the patient ones. (16:126)

The word terrorist and terrorism is fresh on our minds. We are terrified as we remember ruthless aggression and remain in fear as we anticipate the unknown. In fact, the word terror means to fill with fear; a sense of uneasiness we feel from possible danger.

Danger from what? Clearly, we face external dangers over which we have no control. But, there is another danger that we often overlook. A danger to which “terrorists” like Muhammad, Jesus, Moses and all great prophets expose us.

This fear or sense of uneasiness surfaces when we are challenged by such prophets and their scriptures to cleanse our inner prejudice, ego, resentment, anger, insecurities, and pride. It is this purification of the soul that brings us closer to God and, in the words of Ghandi, leads us to truly know God.

You are what you feel. When you feel resentment towards another human being, your fear and anxiety will come from practicing compassion and kindness. If you are angry or upset, the danger in your life will be to experience quiet patience and peace. If you are intolerant of others, your “terror” will be to open yourself to the tension, difference, and diversity in your life. When you find yourself being judgmental and impatient, you will sense danger and uneasiness from having to practice tolerance.

Hatred, bitterness, revenge, and having the final word will put you against the frightening demons of love and forgiveness. Just when you think you have figured someone out, are fully aware of their intentions, have labeled them, cut them away, and begin your fight, you just may hear the knock of understanding and patience at your door. Don’t be surprised if you feel uncomfortable and edgy. Don’t be surprised if you prefer to ignore the call. But, before you do, realize that this knock is coming from God. Your soul is being called to trust God and open the door. Your soul is being invited to overcome these fears that limit a wholehearted submission to God. Perhaps, this is why Muslim in English means one who submits fully to God alone; be it a Christian Muslim, Jewish Muslim, Buddhist Muslim or a Muslim Muslim.

We need more “terrorists” today —compassionate leaders with “soul force” who are in love with God and passionate in their service to others. We need their passion and openness to light fires inside us. Such fires shed light and lead us to confront the fears that define our character and the way we engage with others. Only then can our heart fully experience God everyday. Only then can we change from being pretenders, for which the Greeks invented the word hypocrite, to leaders. And, only then can ordinary people like you, me, and Badshah Khan reach millions of people with our extraordinary message.

I leave you with the words of another great “terrorist” who changed the world 2000 years ago:

You have heard that it hath been said, “Thou shalt love thy neighbour and hate thine enemy.” But I say unto you, “Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you.” (Matthew 5:43-44)

Amir K.

www.masjidtucson.org
www.submisssion.org
www.quranalone.com