tbaba1234: You do not have to respond to this post. I will not respond to subsequent post of this nature.

tbaba1234: I will give you a detailed response and hope that you do some reflection within yourself, show some intellectual humility, maybe you will get some benefit. May Allah guide us both.

tbaba1234: "If anyone disobeys Allah and His Messenger he is indeed on a clearly wrong path." [Al-Ahzab, 33:36]

tbaba1234: Imagine you were in Arabia during the revelation of the Quran, remember the Quran was not in written form, the way it is today. It was essentially words recited from the mouth of a man. For the 7th century Arab hearing this man (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) reciting these words, belief in these words automatically meant belief in this man as a messenger.

tbaba1234: Do you know the kind of regard, Allah holds for His messenger? If you do a proper study of the Quran, It is absolutely incredible, the way Allah talks about his messenger. It is a study in itself.

tbaba1234: Let me give you a small example, Allah talks about changing the Qibla (roughly translated):

Many a time We have seen you [Prophet] turn your face towards Heaven, so We are turning you towards a prayer direction that pleases you........... (Surah 2:144)

Allah changed the prayer direction simply because the prophet looked to the sky, He didn't even have to ask for that. And Allah says, he changed it to please him...

This is how much Allah regards his messenger.

tbaba1234: For you to regard him as just a 'mailman' is ridiculous.

tbaba1234: With all these said, The Quran is littered with Ayat where Allah commands the believers to follow the prophet, the prophet gave instructions to the muslims, many of which have been recorded.

"Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, " (surah Nur: 54)

"And obey Allah and the Messenger that you may obtain mercy" (Surah Aal-Imran: 132)

"O you who believe! Obey Allah and obey the Messenger, " (Surah An-Nisa: 59)

"And when it is said to them: "Come to what Allah has sent down and to the Messenger," you see the hypocrites turn away from you with aversion" (Surah An-Nisa: 61)

"We sent no Messenger, but to be obeyed by Allah's Leave, " (Surah An-Nisa: 64)

"But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you (O Muhammad sallalahu alayhi wasallam) judge in all disputes between then, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission" (Surah An-Nisa: 65)

"And whoever obeys Allah and His Messenger, fears Allah and keeps his duty to Him, such are the successful" (Surah Nur: 52)

"The only saying of the faithful believers, when they are called to Allah and His Messenger, to judge between them, is that they say:"We hear and we obey". And such are the successful" (Surah Nur: 51)

"O you who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger and render not vain your deeds" (Surah Muhammad: 33)

"Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, " (Surah At-Taghabun: 12)

And how do we fulfil this obligation if not by observing what he said and did so that we may obey and follow these instructions? And are not the ahadith the collection of what the Prophet (SAW) said and did? Thus if it is compulsory for us to obey the Prophet (SAW), it is necessary for us to look at the ahadith so we may know WHAT it is we are supposed to be obeying, n'est-ce pas? "He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allah, " (An-Nisa: 80)

tbaba1234: May Allah make it easy for all of us to truly accept what has been revealed to us and make it easy for us to obey Him and hold on to the sunnah of the Messenger who has come as an example and role-model to be followed. "Certainly, there is an excellent example for you in the Messenger of Allah, for him who looks forward to Allah and the Last Day, and remembers Allah much." (Surah Al-Ahzab: 21)

tbaba1234: About the sahih hadiths

Now you have often made the claim that bukhari collected 600,000 hadiths..It is so sad that you know nothing about the hadiths and you just make claims out of Ignorance...


You seem to be living under the delusion that the 600,000 ahadith of al-Bukhari's collection somehow means 600,000 separate narrations or bodies of text.

Your sloppy study of this issue becomes clear when one learns that a hadith is comprised of both a text (matn) and a chain of transmission (isnad).

In the science of hadith, the same text with ten chains of transmission is regarded not as one hadith but rather as ten hadiths, despite the fact that the text attached to each chain is the same in every case.

Let us see what bukhari said about the hadiths in his book

"I have not included in my book al-Jami` but what is authentic, and I left out among the authentic for fear of [excessive] length.

tbaba1234: Alright, maybe you are the arabic expert... Do you know more arabic than people who have studied the language all of their life?? Your deception is deep..

tbaba1234: Thanks for your Question, Islam is based on two sources, i. The Quran ii. The way of the prophet.

Tbaba: We send peace upon the prophets because

i. We are directed to do so in the Quran

“Allah and his angels send blessings on the prophet, o you who believe, send blessings on him and salute him with all respect.” [Qur’an, 33:56]

Tbaba: ii. The prophet told us to do so:

And the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “whoever sends blessings upon me, Allaah will send blessings upon him tenfold.” Narrated by Muslim (384).

ghazzal:

im wondering if tomorrow has not come o!

ghazzal: I appreciate your contribution above and its clarity. Also your chouce of words is exemplary.

ghazzal: May God reward us for our Good deeds, Forgive our errors and make us better Muslims.

ghazzal: My Concern is your claim of disbelief in the Hadith.

ghazzal: I understand that almost all groups refer to the Hadith to back their claims and the Hadith is not free of false information.

ghazzal: But Dont you think there are some true information in it as well?

ghazzal: Edit: Also, according to the link,

1: How do you guys know that it was the last 2 verses in Surah 9 that was added?
2: Who said your calculation of 19 could not have been a fluke that you use it to detect an addition to the Quran-(what if your thoughts are wrong as humans)?
3: Are yu saying that Allah Could not keep his promise to protect the Quran for 1400 years?
4: When Ali was a khalf, why did he not restore your acclaimed original Quran?

The history you refer to about Ali being in his house and not wanting to go out cos of addition to the Quran was from what Source...... hope its not the Hadith since you do not believe in the Hadith.
and i suppose you dont pray 5 times (2-4-4-3-4) daily cos that is according to the Hadith you dont believe in.

ghazzal: May God guide us to the right Path, the path of those who have earned his favour and not those who have gone astray.

Saint paris: Thanks Usisky for all your explanations, i think we all know where the root of the problem comes from.

Saint paris: Thanks for the gift as well

Sweetnecta: @Usisky: is there anything called "Sunni religion"?

Saint Paris: Peace unto you too

Saint Paris: thanks for your input it was very educating

Saint Paris: Thanks also for accepting that Muslim divorce their women by uttering divorce thrice.

Saint Paris: This is very problematic and very degrading for the women,....

Saint Paris: ...but nah you choose to berate me for pointing it out.

Saint Paris: But before you condemn those that do it, know that they have their backing from both Quran and Hadiths which is the sunnnah of the Prophet.

Saint Paris: Most of the sources i've used here as you erroneously thought is not from anti islamic site, it's from sites from Islamic scholars imagine that.

Saint Paris: So It's really something you and fellow enlightened ones like you need to educate the others not wait till an 'islamoqhobia' points it out to you.

Saint Paris: I agree with most of what you've said...

Saint Paris: And one more thing am not the making caricature of your Quran, it is muslims and scholars that support them that do.

Saint Paris: All i just did was point them out,n how's that a crime?

Saint Paris: Lol, whatever Shia's are doing am sure it has backing from the Quran and Sunnah of the Prophet no?

Saint Paris: Was Muhammad engaging in prostitution when he engaged in Muta marriage?

Saint Paris: I wonder what lagoshia and co would say about this.

Saint Paris: You see what am saying, you know of all this laws that supposedly protect women and you decide to keep quite and wait till someday? Till when? You know all this things but keep mute but when a non muslim points it out you start lecturing or are you lying to save face for Islam? If not what are you waiting for?

Saint Paris: Now you talk of fatherly figure how's that even possible when adoption is banned in islam?

Saint Paris: Yea well learned muslim here like Sweetnecta have told it's banned in Islam.

Saint Paris: Now what of the Sunnah of the Prophet? Did he marry any mother of orphaned? Why did he marry Aisha when he already had a wife sauda? Didn't he break this rule too when he married Zaynab and others like her?

Saint Paris: Good luck to whenever you feel like coming to the aid of muslim women.

Saint Paris: Good, let's hear what Islamic scholars say about this. 'The above is clear in pointing out that a innovated divorce (in all its various forms) is unlawful (and sinful) and contrary to the teachings of the Shariah. One must avoid Talaqal-Bid`a at all times.
However, this does not mean in any way that, a unlawful divorce will not be effected... Therefore, if a man pronounced three divorcesat once by stating to the wife: “I divorce you three times” or by saying: “I divorce you”, three times, then three divorces will be effected and the divorce will be irrevocable. The woman will be free to re-marry another man after the termination of her Iddah. She can not return to her former husband’s marriage unless she is divorced once again from her second husband.
This is the position held by all the Sunni schools of Islamic law, i.e, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Malikiand the Hanbali. This was also the view of the overwhelming majority of Sahaba (Allah be pleased with them) and Tabi’in (followers). Only the Ja’fariyya sect amongst the Shi’a and those who followed the literal meaning of the texts, like Imam Ibn Taymiyya and his student Ibn al-Qayyim differed with this view. There view, however, was not accepted by the majority of the Ummah (See Ibn Qudama in al-Mugni , V:7, P:104).
Some of the evidences declaring the three divorces to be in effect:
1) Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an:
“Divorce is (only permissible) twice, thereafter either retaining her honorably or releasing her kindly...If he divorces her (the third time), she will not be lawful for him unless she marries another husband (and he also divorces her)” (Surah al-Baqarah, V:229/230).
2) Sayyidatuna Aisha (Allah be pleased with her) reports that: A man pronounced three divorces to his wife. She (after her Iddah) married another man. The Messenger of Allah was asked if it was lawful for her to return to the first husband. He said: “ Not until they havesexual intercourse” (Recorded by Imam al-Bukhari in his Sahih)
It is clear from the above Hadith that three divorces at once will be effected. The woman was allowed to marry another man. The Prophet of Allah (Allah bless him and give him peace) would have surely pointed out, had three divorces did not come into effect at once.
http://qa.sunnipath.com/issue_view.asp?HD=1&ID=170&CATE=11

So you see, it's something you guys have to sort within yourselves.

Saint Paris: No you're wrong, and even contradictory. Verses [2:226-227]Those who intend to divorce their wives shall wait four months; this one is saying four months while 65:4-5]As for the women who have reached menopause, if you have any doubts, their interim shall be three months. Which is it? Four months or three months? Now back at what you accuse 'islamophobes' of, this idea is supported by many scholars. It's even obvious in the quran.....

Saint Paris: And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

﴿وَاللَّـتِي لَمْ يَحِضْنَ﴾

(and for those who have no courses...) as for His saying;

﴿إِنِ ارْتَبْتُمْ﴾

http://www.islamicstudies.info/ibnkathir/ibnkathir.php?sid=65&tid=54196

Here another by Sayyid Abul Ala Maududi - Tafhim al-Qur'an - The Meaning of the Qur'an

13 They may not have menstruated as yet either because of young age, or delayed menstrual discharge as it happens in the case of some women, or because of no discharge atall throughout life which, though rare, may alsobe the case. In any case, the waiting-period of such a woman is the same as of the woman, who has stopped menstruation, that is three months from the time divorce was pronounced.

Here, one should bear in mind the fact that according to the explanations given in the Qur'an the question of the waiting period arisesin respect of the women with whom marriage may have been consummated, for there is no waiting-period in case divorce is pronounced before the consummation of marriage. (Al-Ahzab: 49). Therefore, making mention of the waiting-period for the girls who have not yet menstruated, clearly proves that it is not only permissible to give away the girl in marriage at this age but it is also permissible for the husband to consummate marriage with her. Now, obviously no Muslim has the right to forbid a thing which the Qur'an has held as permissible.

http://www.englishtafsir.com/Quran/65/index.html
Again know where to point your accusing fingers.

Saint Paris: 2:237 couldn't possibly be referring to both man and woman or do women pay dowry? But take a careful look at what the verse says again.
[2:237]If you divorce them before touching them, but after you had set the dowry for them, the compensation shall be half the dowry, unless they voluntarily forfeit their rights, or the party responsible for causing the divorce chooses to forfeit the dowry. To forfeit is closer to righteousness. You shall maintain the amicable relations among you. GOD is Seer of everything you do.
Isn't this khole? Khole is when women agree to forgo alimony and to repay their husbands any dowry in exchange of having the right to divorce. It is supported by this hadith: abudawud12.2220 . Is that fair?

This is a great tool in the hand of a man who wants to get rid of his wife and not pay her alimony and get back the dowry. All he has to do is to make her life miserable until she takes her freedom and forgoes her rights. This happens everyday where Sharia is practiced.

Saint Paris: I do not see any justice in this. Again we still have the case of a man uttering divorce thrice which is even Permissible by sharia as i earlier pointed out This is the position held by all the Sunni schools of Islamic law, i.e, Hanafi, Shafi’i, Maliki and the Hanbali.

Saint Paris: Now this is quite something. You don't believe in hadiths at all? All of them?

Saint Paris: So what do you know about your Prophet's life or that he even existed?

Saint Paris: do you choose and pick which to believe?

Saint Paris: Majority of Muslims do live by both tradition (hadiths) and ofcourse the Quran.

Saint Paris: The ball is in your court.

tbaba1234:
....if what is meant is documenting the marriage and recording it, then this is something that is required, so as to protect people’s rights and prevent tampering with marriage. But if the conditions of marriage are not met or it involves anything that is contrary to sharee’ah stipulated in the Qur'an with regard to divorce and so on, then it is not permissible to do it, unless documentation of the marriage cannot be done otherwise, or if the person has no choice but to do it.

Sweetnecta: @Usisky: God, Alone is able to do all things, with or without anyone, period.

Sweetnecta: For example, when Gabriel was interacting with Mary as he is delivering the news of the impending birth of her son, Jesus [as], Mary after securing the safety of Allah against the person before her, upon her realizing that this man was a messenger from God, she addressed God directly, while Gabriel delivered the responses of God to her.

You find that in the action of Zakariah [as], just as well.

Sweetnecta: It is common in yoruba nobility and even family that a powerful like parent addresses himself before the child in the we, us, our, talking about himself alone. even husband to his wife in a way of honoring himself. a wife can say we are enough as a wife and you dont need another.

Sweetnecta: Allah is complete and there is no reason to add anyone with Him to make US, WE, or OUR of the Quran.

Sweetnecta: Using your logic, we all agreed that Allah is the ONLY Creator of Adam [as]. Allah uses "WE" in the creation of "man from nothing" in verse 67 of Surah Maryam when He says

Does man not remember that We created him before, while he was nothing?

obviously in this We, you have agreed that Gabriel was not part of creation of Adam and definitely, the prophet is bani Adam [sa]. Allah is consistent.

tbaba1234: ^what a load of rubbish?

tbaba1234: Even today the average Arab still uses the plural tense to address elders n respected people. you can not divorce the quran from the qualities of Arabic.

tbaba1234: Allah revealed the quran in clear Arabic, the more you know of classical arabic, the better your understanding.

tbaba1234: Again clear does not mean simple, I can clearly explain a matter in a language you do not understand. I can clearly solve a calculus problem but someone without an understanding will not have a clue.

tbaba1234: STOP spreading misinformation and commit yourself to truely learning this book. Do so with an intellectual humility n you may find guidance.