Richieboyn:

She's even a queen over you, despite you foolishness. Just the way your mother will love you no matter what you say and do to her.

The bolded wan kill me with laugh...

Show me where in the scriptures that says mary is the queen over christians........stop worshipping mary and aSsigning titles to her.....

ijawkid:

The bolded wan kill me with laugh...

Show me where in the scriptures that says mary is the queen over christians........stop worshipping mary and aSsigning titles to her.....

You are just an educated illiterate that is why it is sooooo hard 4u 2comprehend that we don't worship Mary. D Bible u always make reference to was authored by this same Church u despise sooo much. Yet, u love the Bible? 4ur information, d Church is senior to d Bible. How then were they teaching before d advent of the Bible? Dere ws no Church den abi? Can't u see dat ur nt informed?

homesteady: LWKMD!! My broda you are very funny!!. 1 thing you said really made me laugh at your ignorance!! For heaven's sake, how 'll you say because i ask my fellow christain brothers and sisters to pray for me, dat means i can also ask "dead" people to pray for me Take it or not!! Dey are dead.
Is it written in the Bible anywere??


Well all you've said here is bullshit!! Because only just 1 sentence from JESUS answers all your fake theory's.
"NO ONE CAN COME TO THE FATHER EXCEPT THROUGH ME"
If you pray through mary or any saint,then you are kinda saying "Jesus is not strong enough to hear all our prayers,
that his grace is not sufficient enough for all of us". You are kinda imposing an assistant for him. Lol Assistant saviour!!

so the dead are no longer members of christ's body?? Your theology is scary!
If every christian as the bible says is in christ Jesus then going to a fellow xtian even a dead xtian is going to christ becos d christain is part of christ.

ijawkid:

Mother of which church??.........and which morning star??.....smh......

Infact what is this hogwash!!!......

wow, if every xtian is part of christ then i guess in a mystical fashion it may b said marry is moda of d church. Hehehe

Richieboyn:

You are just an educated illiterate that is why it is sooooo hard 4u 2comprehend that we don't worship Mary. D Bible u always make reference to was authored by this same Church u despise sooo much. Yet, u love the Bible? 4ur information, d Church is senior to d Bible. How then were they teaching before d advent of the Bible? Dere ws no Church den abi? Can't u see dat ur nt informed?

You worship her ooÓ..you worship her image ,you ®ecite words of devotion to her and you call her queen of all christians...if this is not worship then I womder what it is......

Your church compiled a manual that contradict§ its practices............ever heard of such before??......self destruct mission...

Ubenedictus: wow, if every xtian is part of christ then i guess in a mystical fashion it may b said marry is moda of d church. Hehehe

What!!!......which church??...I guess maybe church of satan not the church of GÓd...............

so I honour my father by making an
image that I 'feel' looks like him? I honur
my mother by making her image and then
bowing and praying before her image
right? It is such a pity when people fool
themselves. People now want to give God
a shape and a form aaaaah! God have
mercy!
I do not know whether you have ever
came across where Jesus said, I am the
way the truth, and the life, NO ONE
COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME......
John 14.6. Jesus never said some people
will come through me while others will
come throguh Peter, others can as well
choose to come through Mary, some
might as well choose Maria. No one
cometh unto the father but by me. The
word of God is clear, human philosophy
and logic does not explain it, The word of
God standeth sure, it never fades, it does
not change with the course of time.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
image, or any likeness of anything that is
in heaven above, or that is in the earth
beneath, or that is in the water under the
earth. Thou shalt not bow down theyself
to them........... Exodus 20:4-5. God
instructed Moses to make the serpent,
yes! Should anyone bitten by the snake
look upon it be healed, yes! God never
told them to bow to the brazen serpent,
God never told them to pray nor design
prayers to them, God never also told them
to make altars or prayers with them. By
the way, the brazen serpent was made on
God's instruction, Moses never woke up
and thought it to a good thing to design
an image or a brazen serpent rather. The
brazen serpent was made STRICTLY on
God's instruction. On whose instructions
were those images you use designed?
At the wedding in Cana, Mary the mother
of Jesus begged Jesus to help the cuple
wedding, that they were running out of
wine, Jesus actually did that but I want to
draw you back to what Mary the mother
of Jesus said to the servants serving a the
wedding before she left..... John 2:5 His
mother said unto the servants,
whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. Mary
was actually telling the servants that she
cant do anything with regards to their
need at that point in time, the only person
that could help them was Jesus!
There is only one mediator between us
and the father, and that is Jesus, none
other. Jesus is the only way.... There is no
other means to the father except Jesus.
Believe me if I tell that I was a Catholic for
20 years, wallowing in false doctrine and
human logic. I can boast here on
Nairaland that no one knows the Catholic
doctrine more than I do. I studied it, lived
it, baptised in it, communioned in it,
confirmed in it, bread and buttered in it,
and received awards as a faithful scholar
and teacher of the Catholic doctrine, until
when I went down to the roots, started
afresh and God showed me the truth I
never wanted to accept. Thank God Christ
Jesus!
I do not have time to enter deeply into
this, if you the poster should get to study
the Catholic Church, its doctrine..... Infact
everything about it, get to know the truth,
I tell you that you will..........
I am not saying that the Catholic Church in
itself is evil, NO! All I am saying is that
some of their doctrines should not be
practiced by anyone who actually is a
Christian. Have you done any studies on
buddhism, hiduism and other pagan
religions of the world ?
I cant actually say I am a protestant, NO I
am not a protestant, I am a Christian
saved by God's grace and mercy. Till today
my parents are Catholics, my siblings are
all Catholics, my relations both maternal
and paternal are all Catholics, even my
community is 90 percent Catholic except
me. Thank God for Jesus! I am not trying
to claim anything here please, try to
understand that I do not hete the Catholic
Church nor Catholics, I wish people will
get to know the truth. You cant imagine
the rate of hatred and insult I got from my
family when I declared Christianity, my
family hated me so much just for that
singular reason, but they failed cos they
saw that the change that brought to my
soul when I declared Christian is spiritual,
and as such came with many spiritual
gifts and blessings.
I wish I could have time and enough
space to discuss this, but I believe that a
word is enough for the wise.
God bless you!
Be rapturable because that is the greatest
message not pagan idols and biased
religions.
Once again, God bless you!

"

anthonypeters: so I honour my father by making an
image that I 'feel' looks like him? I honur
my mother by making her image and then
bowing and praying before her image
right? It is such a pity when people fool
themselves. People now want to give God
a shape and a form aaaaah! God have
mercy!
I do not know whether you have ever
came across where Jesus said, I am the
way the truth, and the life, NO ONE
COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME......
John 14.6. Jesus never said some people
will come through me while others will
come throguh Peter, others can as well
choose to come through Mary, some
might as well choose Maria. No one
cometh unto the father but by me. The
word of God is clear, human philosophy
and logic does not explain it, The word of
God standeth sure, it never fades, it does
not change with the course of time.
Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
image, or any likeness of anything that is
in heaven above, or that is in the earth
beneath, or that is in the water under the
earth. Thou shalt not bow down theyself
to them........... Exodus 20:4-5. God
instructed Moses to make the serpent,
yes! Should anyone bitten by the snake
look upon it be healed, yes! God never
told them to bow to the brazen serpent,
God never told them to pray nor design
prayers to them, God never also told them
to make altars or prayers with them. By
the way, the brazen serpent was made on
God's instruction, Moses never woke up
and thought it to a good thing to design
an image or a brazen serpent rather. The
brazen serpent was made STRICTLY on
God's instruction. On whose instructions
were those images you use designed?
At the wedding in Cana, Mary the mother
of Jesus begged Jesus to help the cuple
wedding, that they were running out of
wine, Jesus actually did that but I want to
draw you back to what Mary the mother
of Jesus said to the servants serving a the
wedding before she left..... John 2:5 His
mother said unto the servants,
whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. Mary
was actually telling the servants that she
cant do anything with regards to their
need at that point in time, the only person
that could help them was Jesus!
There is only one mediator between us
and the father, and that is Jesus, none
other. Jesus is the only way.... There is no
other means to the father except Jesus.
Believe me if I tell that I was a Catholic for
20 years, wallowing in false doctrine and
human logic. I can boast here on
Nairaland that no one knows the Catholic
doctrine more than I do. I studied it, lived
it, baptised in it, communioned in it,
confirmed in it, bread and buttered in it,
and received awards as a faithful scholar
and teacher of the Catholic doctrine, until
when I went down to the roots, started
afresh and God showed me the truth I
never wanted to accept. Thank God Christ
Jesus!
I do not have time to enter deeply into
this, if you the poster should get to study
the Catholic Church, its doctrine..... Infact
everything about it, get to know the truth,
I tell you that you will..........
I am not saying that the Catholic Church in
itself is evil, NO! All I am saying is that
some of their doctrines should not be
practiced by anyone who actually is a
Christian. Have you done any studies on
buddhism, hiduism and other pagan
religions of the world ?
I cant actually say I am a protestant, NO I
am not a protestant, I am a Christian
saved by God's grace and mercy. Till today
my parents are Catholics, my siblings are
all Catholics, my relations both maternal
and paternal are all Catholics, even my
community is 90 percent Catholic except
me. Thank God for Jesus! I am not trying
to claim anything here please, try to
understand that I do not hete the Catholic
Church nor Catholics, I wish people will
get to know the truth. You cant imagine
the rate of hatred and insult I got from my
family when I declared Christianity, my
family hated me so much just for that
singular reason, but they failed cos they
saw that the change that brought to my
soul when I declared Christian is spiritual,
and as such came with many spiritual
gifts and blessings.
I wish I could have time and enough
space to discuss this, but I believe that a
word is enough for the wise.
God bless you!
Be rapturable because that is the greatest
message not pagan idols and biased
religions.
Once again, God bless you!

I didn't even have time to read ur whole stuff when I discovered u were talking 'OUT OF POINT'. "Nobody on Nairaland knows the Catholic doctrine more than I do. Bla bla bla". Then you turn around 2 say we BOW down 2 Mary's image? Is that d doctrine you know?? Hahaha.... Yudeserve a good laff. D church has NEVER, I repeat NEVER directed anyone 2bow down 2Mary's image. Anyone doing that is strictly on his/her own. Then as 4u to compare the potrait of ur father or your mother to that of the Mother of the Saviour of the World, can't you see that you problem is complex?

Then again, when u always talking about what I 'feel' she looks like... I stand 2 DiSAGREE with you. YOU ARE WRONG! Itz not just mere feelings. Ur protestant Churches will always claim de've gone 2heaven and come back where they saw God and bla bla bla... The Catholic Churchhas never claimed to go 2heaven and return. There is something called an 'Apparition'. Check your dictionary for the meaning(datz if yu have a dictionary). Mary and Jesus have appeared to Many individuals on DIFFERENT OCCASSIONS and @ DIFFERENT PLACES to give DIFFERENT MESSAGES. The person who was appeared to decides to make a drawing of who appeared to him. And u still say datz what de 'FEEL' it is? Or you think Jesus has stopped appearing like He did in the past? NO! He said "I am with you till the END OF TIME" Matthew 28:20. Have you ever seen any Catholic with the image of God the Father? NO! because no one sees God theFather and remains alive.....dat is why Moses has 2hide his face on d ground @ d site of d burning bush.


Yes, Mary said to his disciples: "Do whatever he tells you to do". But does that mean she didnot contribute to d help of d couple? She had fulfilled her part. D intercession! His disciples wer 2continue. Or do you expect ur mother 2work when u have 12boyz following you? And where have you seen the Catholic Church say that Mary is occupying the role of Jesus My friend, please allow some knowledge in2 ur brain na. Gosh! She does the same thing now. She interceeds 4us.....while the angels carry out the work. Why can't the heads of u protestants be opened up?

And lastly, you talked about your being amember of the Catholic Church for 20years? WHO CARES?! Has ur exit from the Catholic Church made us any less in standard? Has it stopped the unity between us? That the readings proclaimed in ur village are the same proclaimed all over the world? Unlike that of the protestant churches where the gospel of 2churches in THE SAME TOWN will be different. Has ur exit from the Church made us to have no pope, bishops or priests? NO! Instead we are increasing daily. U said u've discovered d truth. Oya go na! Nobody is forcing you. The rest of ur family who stayed behind are wiser. The earlier others like you who do not care 2know the real truth leave the Church.....d beta for us. Make we know the people wey we de deal with.

(I was a member of d catholic church for 20years bla bla bla bla bla.... Mtcheeeeew!)

1 Timothy 2 vs 5, "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and Men, the Man Christ Jesus". From the above scripture, it can be deduced that praying to God through any other means other than Christ Jesus is wrong. He (JESUS) is the only mediator between we and God not some saints as the catholics profess. The above scripture settles that fact, whosoever debunks it only shows the level of ignorance he or she is wallowing in. Mary herself cried out to God as her 'Saviour' in Luke 1 vs 47. This is the same Mary that the catholics regard as the "mother of God", what nonsense! And whosoever tells you that the Bible was compiled by the catholics did you great injustice. After the Roman soldiers killed Christ, they persecuted Christians likewise, but the more they persecuted them, the more they became widespread. Since they (Roman empire) couldn't get a grip on the christians, they dabbled into the church with their fertility goddess (as this was the god they worship in those days) regarding her as virgin Mary. They also dabbled into the church with all the fetish doctrines you see them practicing today. There are documents to back this up, I'm not speaking out of my own fertile imagination

Na so dem go dey lie say dem be staunch catholic for hundred years for hundred years. Ask them one question now, dem go dey stammer.

Logicboy that lied that he was a hardcore catholic for 22years, when i asked him which parish and which mass did he usually attend? till today no answer.

frosbel said he was a catholic youth leader and he doesnt know that the "hail Mary" prayer contains the name of JESUS.

And when you ask all of them so-called "hard-core catholics" if they ever worshiped Mary or statue or saints....no answer.

LIARS...ALL OF THEM.

Dogohson: 1 Timothy 2 vs 5, "For there is one God, and one Mediator between God and Men, the Man Christ Jesus". From the above scripture, it can be deduced that praying to God through any other means other than Christ Jesus is wrong. He (JESUS) is the only mediator between we and God not some saints as the catholics profess. The above scripture settles that fact, whosoever debunks it only shows the level of ignorance he or she is wallowing in. Mary herself cried out to God as her 'Saviour' in Luke 1 vs 47. This is the same Mary that the catholics regard as the "mother of God", what nonsense! And whosoever tells you that the Bible was compiled by the catholics did you great injustice. After the Roman soldiers killed Christ, they persecuted Christians likewise, but the more they persecuted them, the more they became widespread. Since they (Roman empire) couldn't get a grip on the christians, they dabbled into the church with their fertility goddess (as this was the god they worship in those days) regarding her as virgin Mary. They also dabbled into the church with all the fetish doctrines you see them practicing today. There are documents to back this up, I'm not speaking out of my own fertile imagination

Why are you talking too much? Show us the Documents! And Mary is the Mother of GOD! Jesus is God the son. John 10:30-"I and my Father are ONE". What are you talking about Mr. Basket brain we HONOUR mary ooooooooo!!!!!! Check ur dictionary if you have one. There is a difference between Honouring and Worshipping.

@ Ubenedictus,

Seriously speaking now, dont you think that guy talks like a mad person. I dont want to mention his name but you surely know who I'm talking about.

Isnt it time we started ignoring him and his fellow mad men and discuss with those who are sane.

Think about it. In real life you wouldnt argue with a mad man, would you? And if you did, people would take you too as mad, so why do we do it on nairaland?

As for me, I think I have developed a code to show that I am deliberately ignoring them o.

"*SUSPECTED LUNATIC IGNORED*"

At least them no go talk say I abuse them. Na "suspected I talk.

I just dey tell you as my brother.

Boomark:

You are confusing yourself here. That an angel is holding a bowl containing the prayer of the saint(s) does not mean he is a saint. "Angel saint" this is man made. Those in heaven are always holy.
Good you know there are saints on earth.
Where you quoted in Rev did not answer the question "who are the saints(holy one) in heaven"? When you start asking ur self such questions then what you believe in will be clearer to you.

Please my brother, keep an open mind to learning, for as long as you are alive we still learn. Do not send to trash an information; simply because you've not heard it before. This below is something you should know if you cared to do a little research yourself.

"The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (mal’āk̠ Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (mal’āk̠ YHWH; messenger of the Lord), בני אלהים (bənē Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; sons of God) and הקודשים (haqqôd̠əšîm; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels. Later texts use other terms, such as העליונים (hā‘elyônîm; the upper ones)".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel.

The one in bold tells you that Holy ones were used for these beings called Angels, go back to the meaning of saints that I posted earlier, and it's origin. Saints are holy ones, they could be angels as you can see in the emboldened; or they could be men as I have quoted earlier from scripture (1 Cor. 1:2, Romans 1:7). You may say that there are saints on earth, but be aware that you cannot be so sure; since everyone on earth is still prone to sin. That is why St. Paul used that phrase "called to be saints”.

Understanding Scripture does not go without some background studies, else the words of St.Peter: "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2Pet.3:16).
We are fortunate that Christianity is already about two thousand (2000) years old, and over the years, God has raised for us those who interpreted Scriptures having done the necessary background studies, matching the words with the practice/traditions. It is absurd if we at this age do not understand that the Christianity we profess today, was practiced for almost two thousand years before us and preserved by those who were before us on this earth. That's why we need to do a little extra reading to be sure that what we understand the Bible to say is what Jesus taught, Apostles preached, the Bishops and Deacons after them Preached, the martyrs witnessed to and handed over to the next Generations after them. Now on Rev.5:8. I simply do not know why you want to argue if that is a vision of heaven or not, however take a look at Rev.7:9-14 that may suffice for you.

Now Here comes the 3rd accusation of Idolatory. Yet another false one.

ARE CATHOLIC'S ARE IDOL WORSHIPERS?
The ignorant and unlearned say we are all going to
hell!!! "Catholics worship statues!" People still make this
ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in
their churches, goes the accusation, they are
violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make
for yourself a graven image or any likeness of
anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Ex.
20:4–5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin;
they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex.
32:31). It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry
when they are committing it. But calling Catholics
idolaters because they have images of Christ and the
saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of
what the Bible says about the purpose and uses
(both good and bad) of statues. Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book
Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement,
"God has forbidden the use of images in
worship" (281). Yet if people were to "search the
scriptures" (cf. John 5:39), they would find the
opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues.
Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious
contexts! God Said To Make Them People who oppose religious statuary forget about
the many passages where the Lord commands the
making of statues. For example: "And you shall make
two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of
angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on
the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of
one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the
cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread
out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy
seat with their wings, their faces one to another;
toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20). David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense
made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for
the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their
wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the
Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand
of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s
plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us
was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord
concerning it all," included statues of angels. Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved)
images in the idealized temple he was shown in a
vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the
inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses
of cherubim." The Religious Uses of Images During a plague of serpents sent to punish the
Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to
"make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a
pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it
shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it
on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9). One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to
be healed, which shows that statues could be used
ritually, not merely as religious decorations. Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic
devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as
it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her
photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the
saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also
use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the
illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and
other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching
children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate
certain people and events, much as Protestant
churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas. If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then
by using these "graven" images, they would be
practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse
Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these
situations. God forbids the worship of images as
gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs,
paintings, and all similar things would be banned.
But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God
does not even forbid the ritual use of religious
images. It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god
that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did
start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god
(whom they named "Nehushtan", the righteous
king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4). Hiding the Second Commandment? Another charge sometimes made by Protestants is
that the Catholic Church "hides" the second
commandment. This is because in Catholic
catechisms, the first commandment is often listed as
"You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3),
and the second is listed as "You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain." (Ex. 20:7). From this, it is
argued that Catholics have deleted the prohibition of
idolatry to justify their use of religious statues. But
this is false. Catholics simply group the
commandments differently from most Protestants. In Exodus 20:2–17, which gives the Ten
Commandments, there are actually fourteen
imperative statements. To arrive at Ten
Commandments, some statements have to be
grouped together, and there is more than one way of
doing this. Since, in the ancient world, polytheism and idolatry were always united—idolatry being the
outward expression of polytheism—the historic
Jewish numbering of the Ten Commandments has
always grouped together the imperatives "You shall
have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3) and "You
shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). The historic Catholic numbering follows the
Jewish numbering on this point, as does the historic
Lutheran numbering. Martin Luther recognized that
the imperatives against polytheism and idolatry are
two parts of a single command. Jews and Christians abbreviate the commandments
so that they can be remembered using a summary,
ten-point formula. For example, Jews, Catholics, and
Protestants typically summarize the Sabbath
commandment as, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it
holy," though the commandment’s actual text takes four verses (Ex. 20:8–11). When the prohibition of polytheism/idolatry is
summarized, Jews, Catholics, and Lutherans
abbreviate it as "You shall have no other gods before
me." This is no attempt to "hide" the idolatry
prohibition (Jews and Lutherans don’t even use
statues of saints and angels). It is to make learning the Ten Commandments easier. The Catholic Church is not dogmatic about how the
Ten Commandments are to be numbered, however.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, "The
division and numbering of the Commandments have
varied in the course of history. The present catechism
follows the division of the Commandments established by Augustine, which has become
traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the
Lutheran confession. The Greek Fathers worked out
a slightly different division, which is found in the
Orthodox Churches and Reformed
communities" (CCC 2066). Idolatry Condemned by the Church Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church
has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The
early Church Fathers warn against this sin, and
Church councils also dealt with the issue. The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt
largely with the question of the religious use of
images and icons, said, "[T]he one who redeemed us
from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our
God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic
Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you
every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To
this gracious offer some people paid no attention;
being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they
abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they
failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints
were no different from the wooden images of satanic
idols." The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught
that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and
images as God, or believing that they possess any
divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by
praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374). "Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious
sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his
indestructible notion of God to anything other than
God’" (CCC 2114). The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the
sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is
the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or
plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember
Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in
their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says
otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

I have one question please,

I am not a catholic so let me talk of what concerns christians in general.

That model that poses as christ in pictures,how did christians come to conclusion that he is the replica of christ?

Now here comes the third accusation. "Catholics are Idolaters"

ARE CATHOLIC'S ARE IDOL WORSHIPERS?
The ignorant and unlearned say we are all going to
hell!!! "Catholics worship statues!" People still make this
ridiculous claim. Because Catholics have statues in
their churches, goes the accusation, they are
violating God’s commandment: "You shall not make
for yourself a graven image or any likeness of
anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
you shall not bow down to them or serve them" (Ex.
20:4–5); "Alas, this people have sinned a great sin;
they have made for themselves gods of gold" (Ex.
32:31). It is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry
when they are committing it. But calling Catholics
idolaters because they have images of Christ and the
saints is based on misunderstanding or ignorance of
what the Bible says about the purpose and uses
(both good and bad) of statues. Anti-Catholic writer Loraine Boettner, in his book
Roman Catholicism, makes the blanket statement,
"God has forbidden the use of images in
worship" (281). Yet if people were to "search the
scriptures" (cf. John 5:39), they would find the
opposite is true. God forbade the worship of statues, but he did not forbid the religious use of statues.
Instead, he actually commanded their use in religious
contexts! God Said To Make Them People who oppose religious statuary forget about
the many passages where the Lord commands the
making of statues. For example: "And you shall make
two cherubim of gold [i.e., two gold statues of
angels]; of hammered work shall you make them, on
the two ends of the mercy seat. Make one cherub on the one end, and one cherub on the other end; of
one piece of the mercy seat shall you make the
cherubim on its two ends. The cherubim shall spread
out their wings above, overshadowing the mercy
seat with their wings, their faces one to another;
toward the mercy seat shall the faces of the cherubim be" (Ex. 25:18–20). David gave Solomon the plan "for the altar of incense
made of refined gold, and its weight; also his plan for
the golden chariot of the cherubim that spread their
wings and covered the ark of the covenant of the
Lord. All this he made clear by the writing of the hand
of the Lord concerning it all, all the work to be done according to the plan" (1 Chr. 28:18–19). David’s
plan for the temple, which the biblical author tells us
was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord
concerning it all," included statues of angels. Similarly Ezekiel 41:17–18 describes graven (carved)
images in the idealized temple he was shown in a
vision, for he writes, "On the walls round about in the
inner room and [on] the nave were carved likenesses
of cherubim." The Religious Uses of Images During a plague of serpents sent to punish the
Israelites during the exodus, God told Moses to
"make [a statue of] a fiery serpent, and set it on a
pole; and every one who is bitten, when he sees it
shall live. So Moses made a bronze serpent, and set it
on a pole; and if a serpent bit any man, he would look at the bronze serpent and live" (Num. 21:8–9). One had to look at the bronze statue of the serpent to
be healed, which shows that statues could be used
ritually, not merely as religious decorations. Catholics use statues, paintings, and other artistic
devices to recall the person or thing depicted. Just as
it helps to remember one’s mother by looking at her
photograph, so it helps to recall the example of the
saints by looking at pictures of them. Catholics also
use statues as teaching tools. In the early Church they were especially useful for the instruction of the
illiterate. Many Protestants have pictures of Jesus and
other Bible pictures in Sunday school for teaching
children. Catholics also use statues to commemorate
certain people and events, much as Protestant
churches have three-dimensional nativity scenes at Christmas. If one measured Protestants by the same rule, then
by using these "graven" images, they would be
practicing the "idolatry" of which they accuse
Catholics. But there’s no idolatry going on in these
situations. God forbids the worship of images as
gods, but he doesn’t ban the making of images. If he had, religious movies, videos, photographs,
paintings, and all similar things would be banned.
But, as the case of the bronze serpent shows, God
does not even forbid the ritual use of religious
images. It is when people begin to adore a statue as a god
that the Lord becomes angry. Thus when people did
start to worship the bronze serpent as a snake-god
(whom they named "Nehushtan", the righteous
king Hezekiah had it destroyed (2 Kgs. 18:4). Hiding the Second Commandment? Another charge sometimes made by Protestants is
that the Catholic Church "hides" the second
commandment. This is because in Catholic
catechisms, the first commandment is often listed as
"You shall have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3),
and the second is listed as "You shall not take the name of the Lord in vain." (Ex. 20:7). From this, it is
argued that Catholics have deleted the prohibition of
idolatry to justify their use of religious statues. But
this is false. Catholics simply group the
commandments differently from most Protestants. In Exodus 20:2–17, which gives the Ten
Commandments, there are actually fourteen
imperative statements. To arrive at Ten
Commandments, some statements have to be
grouped together, and there is more than one way of
doing this. Since, in the ancient world, polytheism and idolatry were always united—idolatry being the
outward expression of polytheism—the historic
Jewish numbering of the Ten Commandments has
always grouped together the imperatives "You shall
have no other gods before me" (Ex. 20:3) and "You
shall not make for yourself a graven image" (Ex. 20:4). The historic Catholic numbering follows the
Jewish numbering on this point, as does the historic
Lutheran numbering. Martin Luther recognized that
the imperatives against polytheism and idolatry are
two parts of a single command. Jews and Christians abbreviate the commandments
so that they can be remembered using a summary,
ten-point formula. For example, Jews, Catholics, and
Protestants typically summarize the Sabbath
commandment as, "Remember the Sabbath to keep it
holy," though the commandment’s actual text takes four verses (Ex. 20:8–11). When the prohibition of polytheism/idolatry is
summarized, Jews, Catholics, and Lutherans
abbreviate it as "You shall have no other gods before
me." This is no attempt to "hide" the idolatry
prohibition (Jews and Lutherans don’t even use
statues of saints and angels). It is to make learning the Ten Commandments easier. The Catholic Church is not dogmatic about how the
Ten Commandments are to be numbered, however.
The Catechism of the Catholic Church says, "The
division and numbering of the Commandments have
varied in the course of history. The present catechism
follows the division of the Commandments established by Augustine, which has become
traditional in the Catholic Church. It is also that of the
Lutheran confession. The Greek Fathers worked out
a slightly different division, which is found in the
Orthodox Churches and Reformed
communities" (CCC 2066). Idolatry Condemned by the Church Since the days of the apostles, the Catholic Church
has consistently condemned the sin of idolatry. The
early Church Fathers warn against this sin, and
Church councils also dealt with the issue. The Second Council of Nicaea (787), which dealt
largely with the question of the religious use of
images and icons, said, "[T]he one who redeemed us
from the darkness of idolatrous insanity, Christ our
God, when he took for his bride his holy Catholic
Church . . . promised he would guard her and assured his holy disciples saying, ‘I am with you
every day until the consummation of this age.’ . . . To
this gracious offer some people paid no attention;
being hoodwinked by the treacherous foe they
abandoned the true line of reasoning . . . and they
failed to distinguish the holy from the profane, asserting that the icons of our Lord and of his saints
were no different from the wooden images of satanic
idols." The Catechism of the Council of Trent (1566) taught
that idolatry is committed "by worshipping idols and
images as God, or believing that they possess any
divinity or virtue entitling them to our worship, by
praying to, or reposing confidence in them" (374). "Idolatry is a perversion of man’s innate religious
sense. An idolater is someone who ‘transfers his
indestructible notion of God to anything other than
God’" (CCC 2114). The Church absolutely recognizes and condemns the
sin of idolatry. What anti-Catholics fail to recognize is
the distinction between thinking a piece of stone or
plaster is a god and desiring to visually remember
Christ and the saints in heaven by making statues in
their honor. The making and use of religious statues is a thoroughly biblical practice. Anyone who says
otherwise doesn’t know his Bible.

Anyone catholic bowing before any of this images is STRICTLY on his own.

chukkynwob: I have one question please,

I am not a catholic so let me talk of what concerns Christians in general.

That model that poses as Christ in pictures,how did Christians come to conclusion that he is the replica of christ?

Dear one.Jesus lived among men who could express themselves in writing and drawing, more so, we have relics like Veronica's veil believed to be the "shroud of Turin". The church has also had mystics who encountered Jesus in visions, apparitions, trance etc. Over the years, even in the early church,a kind of similarity in the features as proclaimed by acclaimed holy men and women, formed the basis of such pictorial representations. Till today, it's nearly unmistakable to identify a piece of artwork as at least...an attempt to represent Jesus. The beauty ranges from artist to artist(different artist,drawing a living person in front of them, could still come out with same picture with different degrees of beauty).

chukkynwob: I have one question please,

I am not a catholic so let me talk of what concerns christians in general.

That model that poses as christ in pictures,how did christians come to conclusion that he is the replica of christ?

Okay.... First of all, I will like to commend your tone. I like you manner of approach. There is something called 'apparition'. Check ur dictionary 4clearer meaning. Some early christians(catholics) received this apparitions and made paintings of what appeared to them. That is why you'll see that the images vary but are similar. Because different images appeared to different people @ different times. Its 2serve as a reminder. Itz not a god. Shey u get?

Richieboyn:

Okay.... First of all, I will like to commend your tone. I like you manner of approach. There is something called 'apparition'. Check ur dictionary 4clearer meaning. Some early christians(catholics) received this apparitions and made paintings of what appeared to them. That is why you'll see that the images vary but are similar. Because different images appeared to different people @ different times. Its 2serve as a reminder. Itz not a god. Shey u get?

sorry friend, you know I am not one to beat around the bush , all the aforementioned are pagan practices and have nothing to do with Christianity, stop defending the indefensible, why are you guys not content with Jesus and the bible ? Why addd Paganism into the mixture ?

frosbel:

sorry friend, you know I am not one to beat around the bush , all the aforementioned are pagan practices and have nothing to do with Christianity, stop defending the indefensible, why are you guys not content with Jesus and the bible ? Why addd Paganism into the mixture ?

Silence is the best answer to a fool. Let me break it down to ur level of understanding. Fool=mumu.

Richieboyn:

Silence is the best answer to a fool. Let me break it down to ur level of understanding. Fool=mumu.

Is that what your 'humble' pope taught you ? To call people fools

Syncan:

Please my brother, keep an open mind to learning, for as long as you are alive we still learn. Do not send to trash an information; simply because you've not heard it before. This below is something you should know if you cared to do a little research yourself.

"The Bible uses the terms מלאך אלהים (mal’āk̠ Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; messenger of God), מלאך יהוה (mal’āk̠ YHWH; messenger of the Lord), בני אלהים (bənē Elohim ’ĕlōhîm; sons of God) and הקודשים (haqqôd̠əšîm; the holy ones) to refer to beings traditionally interpreted as angels. Later texts use other terms, such as העליונים (hā‘elyônîm; the upper ones)".http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angel.

The one in bold tells you that Holy ones were used for these beings called Angels, go back to the meaning of saints that I posted earlier, and it's origin. Saints are holy ones, they could be angels as you can see in the emboldened; or they could be men as I have quoted earlier from scripture (1 Cor. 1:2, Romans 1:7). You may say that there are saints on earth, but be aware that you cannot be so sure; since everyone on earth is still prone to sin. That is why St. Paul used that phrase "called to be saints”.

Understanding Scripture does not go without some background studies, else the words of St.Peter: "As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2Pet.3:16).
We are fortunate that Christianity is already about two thousand (2000) years old, and over the years, God has raised for us those who interpreted Scriptures having done the necessary background studies, matching the words with the practice/traditions. It is absurd if we at this age do not understand that the Christianity we profess today, was practiced for almost two thousand years before us and preserved by those who were before us on this earth. That's why we need to do a little extra reading to be sure that what we understand the Bible to say is what Jesus taught, Apostles preached, the Bishops and Deacons after them Preached, the martyrs witnessed to and handed over to the next Generations after them. Now on Rev.5:8. I simply do not know why you want to argue if that is a vision of heaven or not, however take a look at Rev.7:9-14 that may suffice for you.

Still nothing on the holy ones in heaven. Why am asking is because there are so many erroneous catholic doctrine based on it. the 1cor 1:2 you quoted showed us who the saints are. the humans who are sanctified in Christ Jesus are called saints. Maybe the apostles called themselves saints(holy ones) instead of Christians. these holy ones are the ones whose prayers are ascending to God from the golden bowl. This God is the God that answers our prayers and Christ our mediator has made it possible that our prayers(prayers of the holy ones) get to Him.

the article in wiki could be written by anybody. what we want is bible truth. If there is anything wrong in what i have written, point it out. You don't pray to any saint in heaven. we are the saints and that is what differentiates us from others here on earth.

Summary of idol worship in Roman catholic church

Boomark:

Exodus 20:4-5
4 “You shall not make for yourself an
image in the form of anything in
heaven above or on the earth
beneath or in the waters below.
5 You shall not bow down to them
or worship them; for I, the LORD
your God, am a jealous God,
punishing the children for the sin of
the parents to the third and fourth
generation of those who hate me,

Acts 17:29-30
English Standard Version
(©2001)
Being then God’s
offspring, we ought not to
think that the divine
being is like gold or silver
or stone, an image formed
by the art and
imagination of man.

catholics make supposed images of Christ and Mary. They kneel, bow, kiss and offer incense to it while making their prayers. These images are of things that are likely to be in heaven, earth or underneath. These images are made of wood, gold, silver, stone, bronze etc and are made according to how men imagine the divine ones should look like. That is why the have varying images of the same person. A crystal clear disobedient to God.

Watch this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=ZnyJB_IOjeA

compare it with this:

2 Kings 18:4
New International Version (NIV)
4 He removed the high places,
smashed the sacred stones and cut
down the Asherah poles. He broke
into pieces the bronze snake Moses
had made, for up to that time the
Israelites had been burning incense
to it. (It was called Nehushtan)

This the brazen serpent Richieboy used as one of the reasons for keeping statues.

All is equal to Idol worship.

Boomark:

Still nothing on the holy ones in heaven. Why am asking is because there are so many erroneous catholic doctrine based on it. the 1cor 1:2 you quoted showed us who the saints are. the humans who are sanctified in Christ Jesus are called saints. Maybe the apostles called themselves saints(holy ones) instead of Christians. these holy ones are the ones whose prayers are ascending to God from the golden bowl. This God is the God that answers our prayers and Christ our mediator has made it possible that our prayers(prayers of the holy ones) get to Him.

the article in wiki could be written by anybody. what we want is bible truth. If there is anything wrong in what i have written, point it out. You don't pray to any saint in heaven. we are the saints and that is what differentiates us from others here on earth.

Thanks for your submission.Nothing on the Holy Ones in heaven? Rev 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"; Rev 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". Rev 7:15 "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them". For now, leave the "erroneous catholic doctrine" as you call it and let's accept what is clearly written.

On the Angels being called Holy ones or saints. Let me make it clear that the Bible as you have it today did not fall from heaven; with a voice from God saying " Take and read and practice", even then, many will still doubt. Know it that the Bible is a collection of books believed by Christians to be Inspired by God and which aids in the practice and spread of Christianity. 2Thess2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. If those who listened to Onesimus (for example) preach after the death of Paul asked that he show them were what he preaches was written by Paul, what will he do. If I engage you now on what makes you believe in the books of the bible as Inspired by God, you will only end up quoting the same Bible that i said you should authenticate. Now I've taken you to a study that is not in dispute, Greek language still exist, early works on the Bible in Greek are still here. You read the Bible in English and you're ready to argue about the meaning of a word without taking into complaisance the origin of the word? That's not good enough.

Syncan:

Thanks for your submission.Nothing on the Holy Ones in heaven? Rev 7:9 "After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands"; Rev 7:14 "And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb". Rev 7:15 "Therefore are they before the throne of God, and serve him day and night in his temple: and he that sitteth on the throne shall dwell among them". For now, leave the "erroneous catholic doctrine" as you call it and let's accept what is clearly written.

I now understand you. Bro please read Rev 1:1. All these things are yet to come to pass. So it still stays as "erroneous catholic doctrine."

On the Angels being called Holy ones or saints. Let me make it clear that the Bible as you have it today did not fall from heaven; with a voice from God saying " Take and read and practice", even then, many will still doubt. Know it that the Bible is a collection of books believed by Christians to be Inspired by God and which aids in the practice and spread of Christianity. 2Thess2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle. If those who listened to Onesimus (for example) preach after the death of Paul asked that he show them were what he preaches was written by Paul, what will he do. If I engage you now on what makes you believe in the books of the bible as Inspired by God, you will only end up quoting the same Bible that i said you should authenticate. Now I've taken you to a study that is not in dispute, Greek language still exist, early works on the Bible in Greek are still here. You read the Bible in English and you're ready to argue about the meaning of a word without taking into complaisance the origin of the word? That's not good enough.

False doctrines abound. Even when the apostles were still alive. anyone can say that flogging people chicken/fowl to deliver them from demons, is an oral tradition passed by the apostles. Beware! Normally, those in heaven are holy and when you see any of them you can call him holy one. Our Father is Holy, Christ is holy, the Angels are holy. But the people Called the holy ones in the bible are humans, sanctified in Christ.

Boomark:

I now understand you. Bro please read Rev 1:1. All these things are yet to come to pass. So it still stays as "erroneous catholic doctrine."

Please read Rev 12:7-17 and tell me again that "All these things are yet to come to pass". Please note that I am not here to defeat you on a debate, so lets not deny the obvious when it comes. Often times people deny even what they use to believe just to win a debate.

False doctrines abound. Even when the apostles were still alive. anyone can say that flogging people chicken/fowl to deliver them from demons, is an oral tradition passed by the apostles. Beware! Normally, those in heaven are holy and when you see any of them you can call him holy one. Our Father is Holy, Christ is holy, the Angels are holy. But the people Called the holy ones in the bible are humans, sanctified in Christ.

Exactly why we are where we are today. The early Christians identified the church as the "Pillar and foundation of truth" 1Tim 3:15. The church has leaders and they have the final decision on faith and moral as exemplified in the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15). Their final decision on issues, after due consultation, is to be taken as coming from God "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things" Rev 15:28. The Apostles handed over to other leaders of the church who continued to spread the Gospel in the manner of the apostles, they held councils when the need arose and their decisions were binding to all the faithful "whatever you bind, consider it bound... Matt18:18". This is why I said a little study can help us...We are Christians, we have a history spanning nearly two thousand years, men have died for what we believe in,their deeds we should know as well. Peter preached and practiced Christianity, so did people in 100AD, 200AD, 500AD, 1000AD, 1500AD, 2000AD. Let's not behave as if we are the founding fathers. Yes many have come with false doctrines, and Various Councils have quashed them.Circumcision heresy; quashed by the Jerusalem council Acts 15, Aranian heresy quashed in the First Council of Nicaea 325AD, Nestorian heresy; quashed by the Council of Ephesus in 431AD, etc. Even the Bible as you know it was confirmed by a council first. All through the ages, an individual opinion never supersedes the council, since an individual could be in error, no matter how saintly. Peter the apostle was in error on the circumcision and the Jerusalem Council took care of that. If humility had been exhibited as Peter did,by the fathers of protestantism 1517AD,we will not be in this position now. All denominations holding unto the same Bible as their reference(acclaimed bible churches), still preach different doctrines. Truth is one and cannot be contradictory, yet all contradictory teachings are claimed to be from the Holy spirit. Now they have done away with the leaders, who will hold the council.

frosbel:

Is that what your 'humble' pope taught you ? To call people fools

Leave the pope out of this and face me. If you had any form of education, you would be able to recognise a 'PROVERB' when you see one.

Syncan:

Please read Rev 12:7-17 and tell me again that "All these things are yet to come to pass". Please note that I am not here to defeat you on a debate, so lets not deny the obvious when it comes. Often times people deny even what they use to believe just to win a debate.

We are getting to the truth not to win debate.
look at Rev 1:1
King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
The Revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave unto him, to shew unto his servants things which must shortly come to pass; and he sent and signified it by his angel unto his servant John:


Rev 12 started with "a great sign appeared in heaven..." In v5, the sign is not about Mary and Jesus cos Jesus has already been born and is now in heaven. this not a revelation of how Jesus will be born. the woman fled to the wilderness and spent 1260 days. did this happen to Mary? from v7, can you tell us when Micheal battled the dragon? these are things that have not taken place at the time of the revelation.

Exactly why we are where we are today. The early Christians identified the church as the "Pillar and foundation of truth" 1Tim 3:15. The church has leaders and they have the final decision on faith and moral as exemplified in the Jerusalem Council (Acts 15). Their final decision on issues, after due consultation, is to be taken as coming from God "For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things" Rev 15:28. The Apostles handed over to other leaders of the church who continued to spread the Gospel in the manner of the apostles, they held councils when the need arose and their decisions were binding to all the faithful "whatever you bind, consider it bound... Matt18:18". This is why I said a little study can help us...We are Christians, we have a history spanning nearly two thousand years, men have died for what we believe in,their deeds we should know as well. Peter preached and practiced Christianity, so did people in 100AD, 200AD, 500AD, 1000AD, 1500AD, 2000AD. Let's not behave as if we are the founding fathers. Yes many have come with false doctrines, and Various Councils have quashed them.Circumcision heresy; quashed by the Jerusalem council Acts 15, Aranian heresy quashed in the First Council of Nicaea 325AD, Nestorian heresy; quashed by the Council of Ephesus in 431AD, etc. Even the Bible as you know it was confirmed by a council first. All through the ages, an individual opinion never supersedes the council, since an individual could be in error, no matter how saintly. Peter the apostle was in error on the circumcision and the Jerusalem Council took care of that. If humility had been exhibited as Peter did,by the fathers of protestantism 1517AD,we will not be in this position now. All denominations holding unto the same Bible as their reference(acclaimed bible churches), still preach different doctrines. Truth is one and cannot be contradictory, yet all contradictory teachings are claimed to be from the Holy spirit. Now they have done away with the leaders, who will hold the council.

From the bolded, don't you see that all the things written by the apostles are more than enough for us to use? what council treated are things that are beneficial to the saints and not the new name God, Mary should answer. not the names angels should bear. The protestants might be protesting the murder committed by the catholic church cos they know the Holy spirit can not inspire such killings.

ijawkid:

What!!!......which church??...I guess maybe church of satan not the church of GÓd...............

i talk am b4, i'm pity myself who is discussing with you. Is this d ansa u gave?
Smh, something really dey scratch ya body

frosbel:

Is that what your 'humble' pope taught you ? To call people fools

by their foot match we shall know them

anthonypeters: so I honour my father by making an
image that I 'feel' looks like him? I honur
my mother by making her image and then
bowing and praying before her image
right? It is such a pity when people fool
themselves. People now want to give God
a shape and a form aaaaah! God have
mercy!

hahaha, Jesus is the image of the unseen God. In christ God came with a form. Hehe

I do not know whether you have ever
came across where Jesus said, I am the
way the truth, and the life, NO ONE
COMETH UNTO THE FATHER BUT BY ME......
John 14.6. Jesus never said some people
will come through me while others will
come throguh Peter, others can as well
choose to come through Mary, some
might as well choose Maria. No one
cometh unto the father but by me. The
word of God is clear, human philosophy
and logic does not explain it, The word of
God standeth sure, it never fades, it does
not change with the course of time.

so when people ask u to pray for them they are not "coming to the father thru Jesus" abi?

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven
image, or any likeness of anything that is
in heaven above, or that is in the earth
beneath, or that is in the water under the
earth. Thou shalt not bow down theyself
to them........... Exodus 20:4-5. God
instructed Moses to make the serpent,
yes! Should anyone bitten by the snake
look upon it be healed, yes! God never
told them to bow to the brazen serpent,
God never told them to pray nor design
prayers to them, God never also told them
to make altars or prayers with them. By
the way, the brazen serpent was made on
God's instruction, Moses never woke up
and thought it to a good thing to design
an image or a brazen serpent rather. The
brazen serpent was made STRICTLY on
God's instruction. On whose instructions
were those images you use designed?

from thesame place d church got d instruction to compile d bible.

At the wedding in Cana, Mary the mother
of Jesus begged Jesus to help the cuple
wedding, that they were running out of
wine, Jesus actually did that but I want to
draw you back to what Mary the mother
of Jesus said to the servants serving a the
wedding before she left..... John 2:5 His
mother said unto the servants,
whatsoever he saith unto you, do it. Mary
was actually telling the servants that she
cant do anything with regards to their
need at that point in time, the only person
that could help them was Jesus!

amen!!! I agree and the catholic church agrees, no one says mary has d personal power to do miracles, instead we say as d bible shows that she has d power to say "they have no wine" and she can also say 'do what he tell you". She doesnt take d glory, she lead us to christ, she interceeds!

There is only one mediator between us
and the father, and that is Jesus, none
other. Jesus is the only way.... There is no
other means to the father except Jesus.

amen

I studied it, lived
it, baptised in it, communioned in it,
confirmed in it, bread and buttered in it,
and received awards as a faithful scholar
and teacher of the Catholic doctrine, until
when I went down to the roots, started
afresh and God showed me the truth I
never wanted to accept. Thank God Christ
Jesus!
I do not have time to enter deeply into
this, if you the poster should get to study
the Catholic Church, its doctrine..... Infact
everything about it, get to know the truth,
I tell you that you will..........
I am not saying that the Catholic Church in
itself is evil, NO! All I am saying is that
some of their doctrines should not be
practiced by anyone who actually is a
Christian. Have you done any studies on
buddhism, hiduism and other pagan
religions of the world ?
I cant actually say I am a protestant, NO I
am not a protestant, I am a Christian
saved by God's grace and mercy. Till today
my parents are Catholics, my siblings are
all Catholics, my relations both maternal
and paternal are all Catholics, even my
community is 90 percent Catholic except
me. Thank God for Jesus! I am not trying
to claim anything here please, try to
understand that I do not hete the Catholic
Church nor Catholics, I wish people will
get to know the truth. You cant imagine
the rate of hatred and insult I got from my
family when I declared Christianity, my
family hated me so much just for that
singular reason, but they failed cos they
saw that the change that brought to my
soul when I declared Christian is spiritual,
and as such came with many spiritual
gifts and blessings.
I wish I could have time and enough
space to discuss this, but I believe that a
word is enough for the wise.
God bless you!
Be rapturable because that is the greatest
message not pagan idols and biased
religions.
Once again, God bless you!

sorry my dear, u only professed d catholic faith u couldnt leave it.
Peace