Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? - Business (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by buzugee(m): 3:01am On Jul 19, 2011 |
ekt_bear:no its not. come on now. as expensive as nigeria is ? thats low salary. people manage to get by on it but its low. the same country where landlords demands 2 yrs rent upfront and bangers that cost $1000 in america sell for like $10,000, and inverters and gens that are $100 in america sell for like $1000 ? shyttt thats peanuts. lets not even talk about the price of clothes and shoes or eating out. you need 50 million naira per annum to be elite. not no $20,000 |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by ektbear: 3:06am On Jul 19, 2011 |
$20k/year would be in the 95th percentile for fresh college grads in Nigeria, would it not? If not, what percentile do you think it is? |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by buzugee(m): 3:12am On Jul 19, 2011 |
ekt_bear:That aint saying much in a country with over 50 percent unemployment. fact remains that this is struggling salary. dont try to compare it to other peoples salary. on the ground, it is not an elite salary. so if you think you will pay someone that amount in naija and start puffing out your chest that you are doing them a huge favor, better watch ya back. as soon as you turn your back, said employee will clean out your bank account  . |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by Katsumoto: 3:35am On Jul 19, 2011 |
ekt_bear: McKinsey is not a manufacturer. An office can be closed in twenty seconds. My initial point was about manufacturing. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by okadaman2: 3:55am On Jul 19, 2011 |
@ekt_bear, that data, for all it's worth compared the income of medieval England with present day (20th century) Africa. From reading your posts, you are obviously a smart dude, so I don't need to lecture you on why that is not an acceptable or balanced comparison to determine the poorer of the two in the 15th century. Also, remember war, slavery , Balance of trade, colonialism and the obvious erosion of African wealth due to several factors including of course our foolishness and European and Arab adventure. Anyway, I'll recommend two works: 1. The World Economy: A Historical Perspective by the brillliant Prof. Angus Maddison: Madisson wrote the seminal work on historical economic data, He was the principal researcher for the OECD before his death and very well respected, according to his well researched data, West and Eastern Europe could not come near Africa economically until the early 15th/16th century while Asia was ahead of everybody, of course we know what happened from that period onward. Also, you can read Walter Rodney's popular book, How Europe Underdeveloped Africa to gain some other perspective different from the hegemonic historical propaganda disseminated by some Europeans. I'm saying all these to urge caution and point us to history so we don't go on repeating lies. From the Excel document and the graph below, you can see that Africa did not slack until much later, we actually surpassed Europe economically. I guess the question will be how do you measure poverty, right? well if you use economy to determine it then we cannot say that we were comparatively poorer before the 14th/15th century. You can google more. Granted, Africa occupies the lower rung presently, but that is not enough reason to turn history upside down. As they say, victors write history [img]http://3.bp..com/_HeVgNBATS40/RiJgNGYSa0I/AAAAAAAAACE/DNXVqlbRYsg/s400/image002.gif[/img] |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by okadaman2: 4:05am On Jul 19, 2011 |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by ektbear: 4:07am On Jul 19, 2011 |
Katsumoto: Right, McK was just an example. I could have also chosen the Nestle plant opened recently in Ogun State. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by ektbear: 4:11am On Jul 19, 2011 |
@okada_man: Interesting. I'll look at that more closely. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by ektbear: 4:24am On Jul 19, 2011 |
@okada_man: BTW, just to clarify, I wasn't using the data in what I linked to to compare England as of then to African countries now. The takeaway for me from the article was the GDP/capita # for England, not the comparisons to African countries now. From there I inferred that African GDP around the same time would be much less than the # given for England. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by okadaman2: 4:36am On Jul 19, 2011 |
@ekt_bear: Ok bro, I see your point. I doubt medieval Europe can hold a candle to medieval Africa economically. The author of that article you posted knew what he was doing by making such silly comparisons. What is the point of comparing Europe of the Middle Ages to Africa of today without controlling for the effects of causal factors? It reads like mockery or something an high-school bully will say. It's not an honest research IMO. check this too: http://www.theworldeconomy.org/MaddisonTables/MaddisonTable1-3.pdf BTW, Good discussion going on here guys. Hopefully I can come back more often, I'm learning a lot myself. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by uonyekwere(m): 12:58am On Jul 30, 2011 |
I am sorry if this has already been said, but here is what I feel. Capitalism, or communism can be beneficial to the people when there are appropriate regulations placed on its practice. I feel like capitalism is just manipulation of human nature. A person has a product that is in demand so people that want it will naturally pay a price to get it. If you are the only one selling a quality product then it is human nature to monopolize so that you can eliminate competition, can rise prices and reap the rewards. It is not health for any economy. Unchecked capitialism leads to the rich getting rich and the poor getting poorer as we are seeing currently in america with the economic crash. But with regulation, capitalism can offer opportunities to the poor, who can potentially break out of poverty and become rich. Unchecked communism is the same way. Imagine if everyone earned the same amount no matter how much work you do? Where is the incentive to continue working? If I am not mistaken, runaway communism led to the fall of the soviet union. My point is, capitalism or communism whichever you prefer, can each be beneficial to the people when practiced in a balanced fashion. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by cap28: 1:40am On Jul 30, 2011 |
Nigeria is a capitalist country, it practices capitalism in a harsh undiluted form, so how come so many of you are trying to get the hell out of the place then? It has no safety nets for the poor, no unions or collective bargaining for its workers, only recently introduced a minimum wage, it has privatised almost all of its public utilities and has opened up the entire country to foreign investors, so why is almost everyone in the country poor? Why is it that the only people benefitting from this capitalist paradise are the politicians, retired army officers and their relatives, how come this free enterprise hasnt created innovation, efficiency and competition in nigeria? |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by dayokanu(m): 3:35am On Jul 30, 2011 |
buzugee: Can you just stop this your Etisalat nonsense. The average salary in the Nigerian banking System which is considered an above average job as at 2008 was about N3m which is less than $20k This is about 250k a month ask ho many ppl in Nigeria working earn above that amount cap28: Nigeria cant be called a harsh capitalist economy when many public utilities are controlled by the govt NNPC, NEPA etc |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by kokogee: 10:53am On Jul 30, 2011 |
those that controll the resources benefit |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by Nobody: 11:09am On Jul 30, 2011 |
Who benefits from capitalism? Well, that's easy, it's Warren Buffet, Rupert Murdoch, George Soros and all other captains of the International Monetary and Banking system. They have helped to fuel continuous crisis in Africa, Latin America and now in Greece, Portugal, Spain, Italy, Ireland and threaten another catastrophe in the USA, which might become bankrupt on August 2,2011. http://totallycoolpix.com/2011/06/riots-in-greece/ http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-politics/8672196/Default-fears-worsen-as-US-Senate-blocks-debt-ceiling-bill.html These Robber Barons deserve a windowless cell for the rest of their miserable lives, |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by Nobody: 11:46am On Jul 30, 2011 |
Capitalism is flawed because it is a system built on unsustainable debt. In the fantasy world of international Banking and Finance, economic growth=debt and gambling in the stock market with "derivatives" and "sub-prime lending" and such other bull s.hit. It's also called a "Casino economics", perfected in the United States of America and other Anglo-Saxon countries. It's a system designed to keep a few people wealthy by shuffling debt around. Government officials have responded to the debt problem by adding more debt. Unfortunately, piling debt on debt cannot solve the problem. This is what a Ponzi scheme; Las Vegas-like secret casino looks like. To keep the pyramid-like structure from acute economic collapse, more and more money is doled out by those wishing to keep the speculation going. Meanwhile, inequality is growing at dangerous levels in the United States; http://www.austinweeklynews.com/main.asp?SectionID=3&SubSectionID=3&ArticleID=3330 And America is indebted to China to the tune of 1.16 TRILLION DOLLARS. In effect, the US is bankrupt http://money.cnn.com/2011/01/18/news/international/thebuzz/index.htm; The West is dying because of this unproductive "Casino economy" Only thing I see "growing" in the next few years is the rise of Fascism and the Far-Right. FACT: 1. Westerners are tolerating immigration, because they think they are fine off as long as they got money. This entire financial system will collapse. THEN WE WILL SEE A HUGE UPRISING. When whites lose their jobs, and their materialist bubble burst, they will have to see the truth for what it is. They can’t decorate their inauthentic lives with 50 inch flat screen TVs when they lose their job. 2. Then, a charismatic fascist demagogue will emerge, Adolf Hitler style, whose final solution will include caricaturing black and brown immigrants as the source of all economic troubles (this is already happening with Geert Wilders, Pauline Hanson, the BNP, Vlamms Bloek, Tea Party, The Norwegian Mass Murderer,etc, etc, ). 3. Then after that, it will be time for another Holocaust; that Western speciality. Diaspora people, you have been warned, |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by cap28: 12:46pm On Jul 30, 2011 |
My-Key: According to economic analysts - China is actually what is keeping america afloat because they (the chinese) continue to accept american treasury bills in exchange for their exports - one american economist actually stated that without the credit that america gets from china and other creditor nations it (america) would not be able to finance its military machine - if this is the case why does china continue to accept these T bills knowign that they are being used to finance america's war machine? the points you raised above are interesting - the thing that i dont understand is why did the US govt decide to kill its manufacturing industry by offshoring everything to south east asia, didnt they know that this would result in massive unemployment? now that they've offshored the bulk of their manufacgturing industry can they make a u turn and decide to bring it all back and reindustrialise their economy and stop this crazy casino economy (as you correctly described it) that is fast turning into a major catastrophe? I agree with your points about fascism - Adolf Hitler's rise to power began when the german economy collapsed, things were so bad in germany - people were eating out of dustbins and queueing for hours outside soup kitchens to get one meal a day. The jews were blamed for everything and hitler's storm troopers (thugs) went around beating up jews, smashing their shops and stealing their property, the german people who were envious of their prosperity sided with the storm troopers and felt the jews deserved to be taken down a peg. this carried on until Hitler legalised the compulsory deportation of all jews to concentration camps where they were worked to death, starved and murdered. People think history can never repeat itself, unfortunately it has a nasty habit of doing just that. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by Nobody: 12:49pm On Jul 30, 2011 |
There isn't anything wrong with capitalism. Its the absence of correct regulations, appropriate taxation and responsible governance that leads to runaway capitalism. The republicans in the U.S. are skilled at promoting big business at the expense of the government and the people. The mess the U.S. finds itself today is due to 8yrs of irresponsible spending by the Republicans after inheriting a surplus from Clinton. Man is naturally a capitalist, we do things that are beneficial to ourselves first. Am not sure what category of airline pilots you meant but the profession isn't as glamorous as it used to be but i doubt if a major airliner will pay that low. Maybe a 10 seater commuter plane or a crop-duster and i bet they are paid according to hours of flight. Even at that, the U.S. has the highest number of professional and private pilots in the world. Most got their training in the military, so the profession isn't as glamorous as it used to be. Also in communist Russia, a medical surgeon earns the same as a bus driver, he/she just got some perks like a 3-bedroom state flat, a Lada salon car and maybe a rebate on cigarettes and vodka. The mid-point is socialism as practiced in Scandinavian countries and France. But it comes with a heavy price. In Norway you will be taxed as high as 40-60% of your earnings and coperate tax is also very high, but you are guaranteed first class medical care, unemployment benefits and excellent retirement privileges. But I cant see this model working in Nigeria, due to the high level of corruption by government officials. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by Macteejay2(m): 1:30pm On Jul 30, 2011 |
I have never been an advocate of Capitalism. If Capitalism were to be good America and Europe would not be in this financial crises. If Cuba were to be a capitalist country under sanction, it would have fallen apart. China is firm and strong because the communist/socialist ideas. Capitalism is simply rubbish and it only favors the rich! |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by 1kachi4u(m): 2:53pm On Jul 30, 2011 |
>>>>>>>everyone |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by bimballer: 3:12pm On Jul 30, 2011 |
Capitalism as we know is dead. True capitalism is premised on the fundamental principle that the factors of economic production are left entirely to market forces without government intervention , management or any other undue influence. Now given the fact that Wall Street was in meltdown and many big banks and financial institutions had to be rescued from going under by the US government through injection of funds and ditto here in England where the government had to step in by bailing out the major banks thus effectively becoming the ultimate owners in all but name. If as the case in some of these banks the government owns up to 80% controlling shares through this bail out plan then how can we say we still practice capitalism. He who plays the piper dictates the tune remember. Capitalism is a cut-throat all you can grab ideology. The upshot being that you appropriate all you can, if you can, when you can and if the market forces move against you then you should be ready to pay the price and become a casualty. So if the banks and financial institutions find themselves in a deep ditch as they did, then in a true capitalist ideal it should and would have been curtains for such concerns. Now whether the government should have stepped in or not is entirely a different debatable issue. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by mayor007(m): 3:12pm On Jul 31, 2011 |
I implore anyone interested in this topic to read "The Shock Doctrine - Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein, The scales will fall off your eyes |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by mayor007(m): 3:12pm On Jul 31, 2011 |
I implore anyone interested in this topic to read "The Shock Doctrine - Disaster Capitalism" by Naomi Klein, The scales will fall off your eyes |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by martinosi: 6:04pm On Jul 31, 2011 |
Can someone define Capitalism - Wiki Definition 1 - Capitalism is an economic system in which the means of production are privately owned and operated for profit, usually in competitive markets My Definition 2 - Capitalism is a Political-Economic system where Private Property of all Citizens of the system is protected by Law ie House, Real Estate, Land by a Representative Govt that respects the individual rights of all citizens (Via a Constitution) 2 is the Ideal, 1 is the Real, |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by martinosi: 6:39pm On Jul 31, 2011 |
THE CHINES ARE SPREADING THE TENTACLES WORLDWIDE BIG-TIME!!!  |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by Brisingr(m): 10:03am On Mar 09, 2013 |
Great thread . |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by donifez(m): 4:13pm On Mar 09, 2013 |
The capitalist or what karl marx calls the "Bourgeoisie" are those that benefits from the system with just a little percent of benefit shared among the masses. |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by wizecoder1: 8:33pm On Mar 09, 2013 |
Capitalism is it......parable of the talent.... It take from the lazy poor and give to the hardworking rich..its not fair but nothing is fair in this world..... |
| Re: Who Really Benefits From Capitalism? by tck2000(m): 11:44am On Jan 18, 2020 |
redsun: |
? you must be smoking the product. i know guys in etisalat on 50 million naira annually. 
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