There is a claim by Muslims that the Quran remains unchanged, further that there is some great proof that the Bible has been changed.

However, we learn from Sahih hadiths that verses went missing, & even an incident that some verses were eaten by a goat!

Sunan Ibn Majah, Book of Nikah, Hadith # 1934)

Narrated Aisha 'The verse of stoning and of suckling an adult ten times were revealed, and they were (written) on a paper and kept
under my bed. When the Messenger of Allah (SAWW.) expired and we were preoccupied with his death, a goat entered and ate away the paper."

Forget gradual changes due to translations & editions, why didn't Almighty Allah even stop an animal like the goat from entering, taking verses from under Aisha's bed & gobbling up what are supposedly His words of instruction to mankind?

Still waiting for some education on this matter, it is quite serious

dnt mind those hypocritic islamist!!!,

the hadith is a fabrication first of all.secondly the hadith contains an evident contradiction and should be rejected.how?

if those people could actually remember that there was a verse called "verse of stonning" or "verse of suckling" or whatever name they give any verse,that implicitly means that no verse was lost or forgotten.we should know that the Quran was preserved in memory and writing.so with the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the thousands of companions who knew the Quran by heart,if any goat chew any paper,then the verse would have still being included if it existed.but evidently,they recognized that a verse or two were "chewed" by a goat but they still did not add it in the Quran.that is why say there is a contradiction.the hadith is so petty that it supposes that by lying that a goat chewed a verse they have being able to make it disappear forever and fabricate a hadith to justify themselves while at the same time they contradict themselves by knowing which verse was "chewed" and yet it was not added!

I have explained to you "frosbel" many times that not all hadiths are acceptable.there are good and bad and true and fabricated hadiths.you must be learned in the science of hadith to know how to sort them out.infact hadiths have a grading system.

I have also explained to you that only the Holy Quran is 100% authentic and acceptable.the hadith collections are not 100%.the hadith collections are similar to the bible because both were written by different men,at different times and in different places. also the words therein in both can be attributed to both fallible and infallible or divinely inspired men.so it is not everything in them we accept.it is the same measure we apply to the hadith collections that we muslims apply to the bible.if you as a christian is honest enough,you'd see that not everything in the bible should be accepted.in that case,you will need a yardstick to know what to accept and what to reject.that is called a state of confusion if you have nothing as a yardstick to base your judgement.we muslims have the Quran (which is 100% true and the infallible word of God) to use as yardstick to judge the hadiths and the bible.i believe christians too need the Quran to gain knowledge and guidance.

Sunnis and Sufis make una hear ooooo.


Hadith a fabrication 


You are now sounding comical , let me give you a little education from Wikipedia


Hadith are regarded by traditional Islamic schools of jurisprudence as important tools for understanding the Qur'an and in matters of jurisprudence.[4] Hadith were evaluated and gathered into large collections during the 8th and 9th centuries. These works are referred to in matters of Islamic law and history to this day. The two main denominations of Islam, Shiʻism and Sunnism, have different sets of Hadith collections.


Lying will not save you.

Looks  like Shiite are the heretics of ISLAM !!!!!

But please tell me what happened to the Quran pieces that a hungry goat ate , surely when the goat pooed , they should have retrieved it , right ?

LagosShia:

the hadith is a fabrication first of all.secondly the hadith contains an evident contradiction and should be rejected.how?

if those people could actually remember that there was a verse called "verse of stonning" or "verse of suckling" or whatever name they give any verse,that implicitly means that no verse was lost or forgotten.we should know that the Quran was preserved in memory and writing.so with the Ahlul-Bayt (as) and the thousands of companions who knew the Quran by heart,if any goat chew any paper,then the verse would have still being included if it existed.but evidently,they recognized that a verse or two were "chewed" by a goat but they still did not add it in the Quran.that is why say there is a contradiction.the hadith is so petty that it supposes that by lying that a goat chewed a verse they have being able to make it disappear forever and fabricate a hadith to justify themselves while at the same time they contradict themselves by knowing which verse was "chewed" and yet it was not added!

I have explained to you "frosbel" many times that not all hadiths are acceptable.there are good and bad and true and fabricated hadiths.you must be learned in the science of hadith to know how to sort them out.infact hadiths have a grading system.

I have also explained to you that only the Holy Quran is 100% authentic and acceptable.the hadith collections are not 100%.the hadith collections are similar to the bible because both were written by different men,at different times and in different places. also the words therein in both can be attributed to both fallible and infallible or divinely inspired men.so it is not everything in them we accept.it is the same measure we apply to the hadith collections that we muslims apply to the bible.if you as a christian is honest enough,you'd see that not everything in the bible should be accepted.in that case,you will need a yardstick to know what to accept and what to reject.that is called a state of confusion if you have nothing as a yardstick to base your judgement.we muslims have the Quran (which is 100% true and the infallible word of God) to use as yardstick to judge the hadiths and the bible.i believe christians too need the Quran to gain knowledge and guidance.

so a goat chewed a verse or part of the Quran yes or no

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elrony:

so a goat chewed a verse or part of the Quran yes or no

NO!

[flash=400,400]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pk8sr7gI1Yg?version=3&hl=en[/flash]

frosbel:

Sunnis and Sufis make una hear ooooo.

we may fight as much as we've done,but our commonalities and the bond of Islam are too strong for us to fall for your tricks to sow discord among us.our bond is strong enough to ward off kufr!

Hadith a fabrication


You are now sounding comical , let me give you a little education from Wikipedia


Hadith are regarded by traditional Islamic schools of jurisprudence as important tools for understanding the Qur'an and in matters of jurisprudence.[4] Hadith were evaluated and gathered into large collections during the 8th and 9th centuries. These works are referred to in matters of Islamic law and history to this day. The two main denominations of Islam, Shiʻism and Sunnism, have different sets of Hadith collections.

the wikipedia description can be used to refer to authentic and verified hadiths and not just any hadith found left and right and center.hadiths must first be scrutinized.

Lying will not save you.

i know that.

Looks like Shiite are the heretics of ISLAM !!!!!

that is not for a kafir to say.no matter how worse shia see sunni and sunni see shia,you are seen as worse by both!!!

But please tell me what happened to the Quran pieces that a hungry goat ate , surely when the goat pooed , they should have retrieved it , right ?

are you not a goat or even worse?

we may fight as much as we've done

sure, you are always fighting, religion of peace , indeed !!

but our commonalities and the bond of Islam are too strong for us to fall for your tricks to sow discord among us.our bond is strong enough to ward off kufr!

Yep, just as I thought , when you finish killing all the kufrs you start killing each other like you are doing in Iraq , right !!!!

i know that.that is not for a kafir to say.no matter how worse shia see sunni and sunni see shia,you are seen as worse by both!!!

It is a privilege to be called a kufr , reminds me I am free from one of the most violent ideologies known to mankind.

Again JESUS is LORD , Amen.


You also have not yet told me why Shia worship the DEAD 

Paganism I say !!!!

are you not a goat or even worse?

Okay let us assume I am a goat , I can assure you that I was not the goat that ate parts of the Quran.

So tell me is the Quran corrupt ?

1 Samuel 6:19
He struck down some of the men of Beth-shemesh because they had looked into the ark of the LORD. He struck down of all the people, 50,070 men, and the people mourned because the LORD had struck the people with a great slaughter.

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys (among the Midianites). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Judges 21:10-11
So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children.“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.”

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Psalms 137:8-9
O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!


Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."



Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—


Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

frosbel:


You also have not yet told me why Shia worship the DEAD 

Paganism I say !!!!

a man worshipper like you should feel ashame to talk about paganism.

but anyways,you can watch this video and get your answers there and judge if the nonsense and foolishness you're talking to spite others that Shia worship the dead/grave or are mushrikeen (polytheists) is true or false:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wPPFjjqDyLU&playnext=1&list=PLA40E23E17DE63018

I aint watching no video mate !!!!   


I have drawn conclusions eons ago about ISLAM especially that virulent heretical brand called Shia.

But please answer me, why do you slice your heads and beat blood out , and why do you visit the shrines of the dead just like those PAGAN Catholics and crusaders.

Birds of the same feather

frosbel:

I aint watching no video mate !!!!


I have drawn conclusions eons ago about ISLAM .

But please answer me, why do you slice your heads and beat blood out , and why do you visit the shrines of the dead just like those PAGAN Catholics and crusaders.

Birds of the same feather ,

if only you know how to read,you'd see that in the previous posts,you have being answered.

LagosShia:

1 Samuel 6:19
He struck down some of the men of Beth-shemesh because they had looked into the ark of the LORD. He struck down of all the people, 50,070 men, and the people mourned because the LORD had struck the people with a great slaughter.

Numbers 31:17-18
Now kill all the boys (among the Midianites). And kill every woman who has slept with a man, but save for yourselves every girl who has never slept with a man.

Judges 21:10-11
So the assembly sent twelve thousand fighting men with instructions to go to Jabesh Gilead and put to the sword those living there, including the women and children.“This is what you are to do,” they said. “Kill every male and every woman who is not a virgin.”

Luke 19:27
"But those mine enemies, which would not that I should reign over them, bring hither, and slay them before me."

Luke 12:49
"I have come to bring fire on the earth, and how I wish it were already kindled!

Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

2 Peter 2:12
"These false teachers are like unthinking animals, creatures of instinct, born to be caught and destroyed. They scoff at things they do not understand, and like animals, they will be destroyed."

John 2:15
[Jesus] made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables.

Psalms 137:8-9
O Babylon, you will be destroyed. Happy is the one who pays you back for what you have done to us.Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks!


Psalms 139:19-22:
"Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: Depart from me therefore, ye bloodthirsty men. For they speak against thee wickedly, And thine enemies take (thy name) in vain. Do not I hate them, O Jehovah, that hate thee? And am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: They are become mine enemies."



Matthew 10:34
"Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Luke 22:36,38
[Jesus] said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one, " The disciples said, "See, Lord, here are two swords." "That is enough," he replied.

Matthew 10:35
35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—


Luke 12:50-53
50 But I have a baptsm to undergo, and what constraint I am under until it is completed! 51 Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division. 52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three. 53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law.”

I refuse to read the bible verses above, they might be corrupt.

frosbel:



I refuse to read the bible verses above, they might be corrupt.

nice!

LagosShia , May JESUS CHRIST OPEN you eyes to the TRUTH and turn you from DARKNESS to LIGHT.

from my conclusion lagosshia ur are jst one of those religoius hypocrites, no offense

elrony:

from my conclusion lagosshia your are jst one of those religoius hypocrites, no offense

thank you sir!

LagosShia:

thank you sir!

ur welcomed!!!

try keepin ur atrocious belief and sentiments to urself bro!!! peace

elrony:

your welcomed!!!

try keepin your atrocious belief and sentiments to urself bro!!! peace

you can lead by example!

@Frosbel; « #4 on: August 20, 2011, 11:26 PM »
[Quote]Sunnis and Sufis make una hear ooooo.

Hadith a fabrication Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh Huh[/Quote]you mind of the british authority in pre independent india. there gimmick way to dress like the indian muslims and you will believe they were from afar. then they do the evil thing, committing the killing of the hindus god, by slaughtering the cow. Just at that time they will shout something islam, like Allah Akbar, calling the attention of the hindus, then they quickly disappeared.
now the hindus are gathered and mob mentality takes over. muslims are now fair gather, and of course by share numbers [just like Jesus and his uncommitted supporters], the muslims are no match even with their 'oppression is worse than killing' best effort. this are the foundations of how Pakistan finally came into existence. britain played the role of the devil in the community. it happens that they were not as successful in nigeria, later on.

ironically, it is the same england that has housed you and developed your mind. you are just like your father, the british in this case; calling attention of a community to an individual. what do you expect to happen? people should kill lagosshia was your intention. Allah will make you a success in this effort of yours. you are despicable soul. if you have any moral you should cry for taking a man who had a beginning in his mother's womb, if only that as your Creator, because only the Creator can save.

and your reason for being a devil; yes there are a lot of fabricated hadith in sunni and i imagine also in shia sources; these hadith will be clearly against the Quran. one of the is the topic of this thread.

before i say anything, i want you to imagine the time of revelation in Makka and Madina. how busy the house of the messenger [as] was and easy you will find a stray goat so much so it is able to get into the 'Vault' [the special spot] where the Quran is. is adeboye more important than Mohammad [as]? imagine hard is for thief to sneak into the property of adeboye; almost impossible you will say, while millions of homes in nigeria will be easily invaded.



[Quote]You are now sounding comical , let me give you a little education from Wikipedia

Hadith are regarded by traditional Islamic schools of jurisprudence as important tools for understanding the Qur'an and in matters of jurisprudence.[4] Hadith were evaluated and gathered into large collections during the 8th and 9th centuries. These works are referred to in matters of Islamic law and history to this day. The two main denominations of Islam, Shiʻism and Sunnism, have different sets of Hadith collections.[/Quote]so what education if any have provided with the above, relevant to this thread? zero.



[Quote]Lying will not save you.[/Quote]neither will it save you nor save the devlish Paul your father the master liar who was a killer from the beginning.



[Quote]Looks like Shiite are the heretics of ISLAM !!!!!

But please tell me what happened to the Quran pieces that a hungry goat ate , surely when the goat pooed , they should have retrieved it , right Huh?[/Quote]if you remembered from the above i asked to put yourself in the time of revelation in the home and around the messenger [as], this is the place that you may live out the experience.
even in Makka, he lived in affluent neighborhood, until the difficulties that comes with prophetic office began. through it, the pagans trusted him enough still for him to be their safe deposit box person. this means the traffic to from the house of the messenger [as] now increased with the new muslims being the increase. in Makka, i will imagine that with all of these, it will be pretty difficult to have a goat just come in and head for the Quran and eat it.

let me use the powerless Jesus to demonstrate what would have happened to the goat. Jesus is reported to have helped a possessed man to regain his freedom from spirits [here comes the spirit again, denoting among what spirit can be, that the SPIRIT is not only what is the unseen partner in the trinity, o much so in his invisibility that he was able to mount and overshadow a virgin, and get her pregnant with Jesus the helpless third, yet Mary didn't lose her virginity], considering that he had no power of any sort, Allah Who is Complete is expected to do no less than Jesus on the matter of the last revelation; keeping it from all possible impurities, including ability to lose any part of it. Even the not so independent Yahweh was able to get Jonah out of the whale as he entered it, a living man and coming out as exactly the same living man after 3 days and three nights [incidentally it is the same miracle type that Jesus promised as his sign; if he didn't enter the 'cave' alive, he should have came out not alive too, and three days and three night must also be completed. no christian has been able to count the three days and three nights out of friday evening to the dawn of the following sunday. with all the miracle workers, this have been a miracle that Jesus of the Bibles also failed to perform], the goat would have been expected to throw up the revelation completely intact.

but Allah is always alive never weary or fall into slumber. He is in control of everything, and no one else has ability to prevent His blessing or punishment from reaching its destination. The goat, if there was a goat that could walk in unnoticed could have met any of Allah's invisible armies, a lion for example could have appeared to the goat to scare it from coming near the Quran. the goat itself could have been made to be filled up, or not be able to open its mouth, or chew, etc. the possibility ways of stopping the goat are uncountable. Allah Personally guaranteed the full preservation of Quran and it incorruptibility to the last man on earth. And no goat can prevent it from happening. let me share something with you that a verse is lost to a goat is impossible because Quran as written down when revelation was taking place were in 4 copies at the same time by 4 known scribes, and each set is in possession of the Messenger [as], and any muslim who wants to memorize copied from what is recited, or what is copied from these 4. Quran is easy to read and or memorize. i remember how Umar bin Khattab came to islam; with all his pride as a pagan then, his younger sister prevented him from coming new the parchment Surah Taha which eventually led him to embrace the young religion. but his sister and husband wrapped the Surah in a cloth and kept it hidden. I am going to say that i will not expect that the messenger took care of 4 copies of the Quran less, so much so that a lone goat was able to pick the same part from each for his food. the christians should device a different strategy and we the muslims will prove it wrong, just as easily.


the Madina community was so much in and out of the house of the messenger [as] that Allah in Surah Azhab told the manner of being in the house of the bashful messenger who with all his always pressing for time did not tell his guest that he is busy. so many of the revelation came in the presence of even disbelievers as the verse about 'spirit' to answer the question asked by the jews on it. imagine if it was a secret or false premise, the jews will not said to one another 'he may something that you may dislike', knowing that he will tell the truth as a messenger with revelation, and when he told them about the 'spirit' [human spirit, not jinn, not the silent partner of christian gods that neither the jews nor Muhammad [as] who they asked believe], the jews didn't say a word. they accepted it and was a witness against them. they were after all more than him, and they pride themselves as being people of revelation, yet they didn't accuse him of being a false messenger because they saw all the signs of true prophet in him [he didnt eat charity but will eat from gifts, and many more; tings they were familiar with as common to prophets in the past], unlike how they accused Jesus of being a false messiah and son of a love peddler. it was Muhammad [as] who the Lord of Jesus Who sent him earlier used to clear the air about these evil accusation, Muhammad fulfilling every role of the another comforter, indication there was at least a former comforter [by the what was the role of the former comforter, and what way would you a comforter if you met one?]


many generations ago in the english parliament, stood a parliamentarian who made a long speech against islam and punctuated it by whipping out a Quran and tore it as if to say this brings an end to it. another parliamentarian stood up to tell him reality of the then and now that Quran is physical, but it is being ingrained in the heart that will make every effort against islam unsuccessful. you cant tell anyone with some measurable amount of intelligence that 4 master copies missed the same verse because a goat each of the material the verse is written on, as if none of the material will something like a bone and not leaves in four. Can anyone assume that it leaves were used at all, it will be used at the same by all 4 scribes to write the same verse, within the same space, and no other times the revelation were written on leaves, yet in each year that the messenger received revelation and recited to Jibril, and Jibril reciting back, there was no correction of the Quran on the missing verse that the imaginary goat ate. yet hundreds of people memorized all the Quran in addition to all community members memorizing parts of the Quran for their daily salah use, and Allah after all of this certified Muhammad [as] as a messenger who discharged his duty well and fully.

THE poster of this thread is not interested in learning, rather all he/she wants to do is more of criticize on an issue he/she knows little about. As a muslim, we should know we are privileged to know the truth and all we need to do is to seek the path of righteousness always rather than waste time on throwing punchlines and rest. I would appreciate if all MUSLIMS resist from letting their anger set in when dealing with people of different faiths because they do not comprehend what you preach, even though it is hard try and restrain yourself. SALAM

All he is saying that 'the hadith' that mentioned goat eating Quran verses is not authentic, he did not say all hadiths are fake or made up, he said the 'Goat eating Quran verse Hadith' is not authentic, so try to understand that first, there are grades in hadiths, and not all hadiths are authentic because some of those are made up, so scholers rejected those hadith, and the hadith in question is one of them! so we don't follow a hadith if that hadith is not authentic and we exclude it, but i don't know why Christians always bring up those rejected hadiths! we follow hadith but we don't follow the 'rejected' ones!

What A Pity, Goat Again..