To start with I have always been a defender of Igbo unity on Nairaland but I seem to have arrived a dead end as it seems culturally we are not the same people.The artificial ethnic creation seems to have been founded on Nri/Awka hegemony and other so-called Igbos sheepishly following them.

There is nothing like Igbo unity.All so-called Igbos from Imo,Abia,Rivers and parts of Ebonyi have little or nothing in common with Anambra and Enugu.An Anambra man can barely understand what an Ngwa,Mbaise,Owerri,Oguta,Abiriba,Afikpo,Ohafia,Item, and most other Southern Igbos speak.We understand them though.

They refuse to marry from Southern Igbo on grounds of different blood lines.I even think most of Delta Igbos (apart from Ibuzor who are Isu) seem to belong to the same stock as Nri/Awka while most of the Rivers and Akwa-Ibom Igbos are of same stock as Isu/Oru.

I have also noticed that while most Southern Igbos might see Enugu,Ekwulobia or Igboukwu as part of us,the Northern Igbos try as much as possible to despise Owerri,Umuahia and Aba.

I also noticed that they condemn Onitsha and Abakaliki people which confirms Onitsha and Abakaliki as also a different stock from them.

This has to stop or we will end up as we were in the past as small independent ethnic groups.

Abagworo:

To start with I have always been a defender of Igbo unity on Nairaland but I seem to have arrived a dead end as it seems culturally we are not the same people.The artificial ethnic creation seems to have been founded on Nri/Awka hegemony and other so-called Igbos sheepishly following them.

There is nothing like Igbo unity.All so-called Igbos from Imo,Abia,Rivers and parts of Ebonyi have little or nothing in common with Anambra and Enugu.An Anambra man can barely understand what an Ngwa,Mbaise,Owerri,Oguta,Abiriba,Afikpo,Ohafia,Item, and most other Southern Igbos speak.We understand them though.

They refuse to marry from Southern Igbo on grounds of different blood lines.I even think most of Delta Igbos (apart from Ibuzor who are Isu) seem to belong to the same stock as Nri/Awka while most of the Rivers and Akwa-Ibom Igbos are of same stock as Isu/Oru.

I have also noticed that while most Southern Igbos might see Enugu,Ekwulobia or Igboukwu as part of us,the Northern Igbos try as much as possible to despise Owerri,Umuahia and Aba.

I also noticed that they condemn Onitsha and Abakaliki people which confirms Onitsha and Abakaliki as also a different stock from them.

This has to stop or we will end up as we were in the past as small independent ethnic groups.

Dude,calm down. You are not mentioning anything that is not common within other ethnic groups in nigeria.

@the OP, it does not matter. The Yorubas are same even fought against each other heavily prior to the coming of bekee.

My Honest Opinion - Identity and Unity are Two Different Things

I think Igbo people ("Igbo Defenders" to be exact) are insecure about what constitutes the collective Igbo identity. We need not be culturally or linguistically fused for any kind of "Igbohood" (not to be confused with the expression "Igbo Unity". "Igbohood" can exist without people striving so hard to create the impression of something that isn't and is not necessary.

"Igbo Unity" (by the way, I hate this expression) is an over-flogged issue, and over-flogged for the wrong reasons (again, my honest opinion). It is excessively embedded with the strive to create a certain impression of "Igbohood". In fact, I would just say that "Igbo Unity", as I have seen people use it, is founded almost entirely on such efforts. There's never any such thing as "Igbo Unity" outside of that impressionistic context, and that is annoying (again, my honest opinion).

Abagworo:

This has to stop or we will end up as we were in the past as small independent ethnic groups.

We are already like that. It may not be to the same degree as it was in the past, simply because we no longer have autonomy as we did then, but we are still like that.

Every ethnicity have different clans. So, it's not something peculiar with Igbos.

i have always viewed the igbo definition as people that are culturally similar and not not the same people.If you had read the the book 'Nigeria;Path to nationalism' you will no this.There has never been fusion per say.

There seem to be a bit of exaggeration in your claims. I think you are blowing things out of proportion. In the real world, most Igbos dont feel alienated from each other, save for some groups like Mbaise, some groups in Ebonyi, etc that are generally derided.

It's the same way the Yorubas despise the Ijebu and Egba people. It happens in every society, and doesn't affect the unity of a people at large.

Ndigbo n'egbukwa Onwewo.
Nkewa adighi nma.

To start with I have always been a defender of Igbo unity on Nairaland but I seem to have arrived a dead end as it seems culturally we are not the same people.The artificial ethnic creation seems to have been founded on Nri/Awka hegemony and other so-called Igbos sheepishly following them.

I told you already - you are a wrong majority in Nigeria. Be content with your minority reality or you risk getting pushed out of West Africa for ever.

Abagworo

I don't agree with many of your points. First of all, I've never met an instance in which people refuse to marry due to origin. I have a few relations/townspeople who are married to people from Enugu, Ngwaland, Ikwerreland, Anambra, Ebonyi
And other areas.

Whether we like it or not, we are all "Igbo peoples". We, despite our various localities, are united under the "Igbo umbrella" for lack of a better phrase. From Kwale to Agbor, Agbor to Asaba, Asaba to the northern fringes of Igboland, south to Owerre, East to Arochukwu and South to the heart of Rivers State exist one PEOPLE but different people's.

We are different in the sense that we come from different towns, have different histories, and speak slightly different dialects, but united in the sense that we share a common identity as Igbos: the wine tapping people, the palm oil harvesters, the worshippers of Kamalu, Chukwu, Amadioha, Anyanwu, and a host of other deities.
The thing with topics like these is that you are openly inviting (nsolgbu). Anyone can easily come and post anyhow based on what they see you guys writing and it creates a bad image for the rest of us.

Bear in mind that no people in this world are homogenous and still as large as we are. Yorubas aren't. Ekiti man speaker Ekiti dialect which an Oyo man wouldn't understand. Ijebu man speaks his own dialect which is a unique form of Yoruba. All of these people have their distinctness but at the end of the dag they are still Yoruba.
Hausas also aren't. An Hausa man from Mali wouldn't understand the dialect of Hausa
Spoken in Kano or the one in Sokoto, but they are still Hausa as a group. I hope you get my point,

odumchi:

First of all, I've never met an instance in which people refuse to marry due to origin.

Seriously?

ChinenyeN:

Seriously?

I personally have not encountered anyone in that circumstance although I'm well aware that it happens. What I'm trying to say is that it is not as common as he is making it seem.

Bear in mind that no people in this world are homogenous and still as large as we are. Yorubas aren't. Ekiti man speaker Ekiti dialect which an Oyo man wouldn't understand. Ijebu man speaks his own dialect which is a unique form of Yoruba. All of these people have their distinctness but at the end of the dag they are still Yoruba.
Hausas also aren't. An Hausa man from Mali wouldn't understand the dialect of Hausa
Spoken in Kano or the one in Sokoto, but they are still Hausa as a group. I hope you get my point

Do you know why?   Because you are using language as a creed of unification.  Yoruba nor Hausa, not even Fulani uses language as a creed of unity.  

You need to find a creed, other than language, that binds your people, regardless of where they are physically located.

odumchi:

I personally have not encountered anyone in that circumstance although I'm well aware that it happens. What I'm trying to say is that it is not as common as he is making it seem.

That is interesting.

Negro_Ntns:

Do you know why?   Because you are using language as a creed of unification.  Yoruba nor Hausa, not even Fulani uses language as a creed of unity.  

You need to find a creed, other than language, that binds your people, regardless of where they are physically located.  

Igbo dialects are similar to each other.
Religion, culture and names, and social structure are all the same for all.

odumchi:

Igbo dialects are similar to each other.
Religion, culture and names, and social structure are all the same for all.

Really?

Negro_Ntns:

Do you know why?   Because you are using language as a creed of unification.  Yoruba nor Hausa, not even Fulani uses language as a creed of unity.  

You need to find a creed, other than language, that binds your people, regardless of where they are physically located.  

Language is also what has unified your Yoruba group. You are back in Igbo threads again after Chinenye gave you some extra-moral lessons not long ago.

lakal:

Really?

Could you give me an example of when they aren't?

For both igbos and Yorubas, language is important, but it's really about similar cultural habits IMO (similar, not identical).


Thre are both groups of people who speak the Igbo and Yoruba languages but are generally recognized as not truly belonging to the groups.  Opobo/Bonny for Igbos, and Apoi for Yorubas, for example.

Anyway for the bigots here, language is noot the only unifying factor in Igbo culture. Others are
Same market days, kolanut rituals, Iri ji festivals, belief in Chi, belief in Ozo titles, belief in Ikenga, belief in circumcision on the 8th day etc.

odumchi:

Could you give me an example of when they aren't?

"All the same" seems to suggest that they are identical practices, not merely very similar ones.  Is that true for any large African group?

lakal:

"All the same" seems to suggest that they are identical practices, not merely very similar ones.  Is that true for any large African group?

What you're talking about is tradition which differs from place to place while I'm talking about culture. Culture and tradition arent the same thing. However, all Igbos understand the importance of kola nuts, we all recognize chi as a deity in addition to other deities, they all answer "Mazi", have 4 market days, use palmwine, and etc.

odumchi:

What you're talking about is tradition which differs from place to place while I'm talking about culture. Culture and tradition arent the same thing. However, all Igbos understand the importance of kola nuts, we all recognize chi as a deity in addition to other deities, they all answer "Mazi", have 4 market days, use palmwine, and etc.

WORD.

odumchi:

Religion, culture and names, and social structure are all the same for all.

Please don't. You're starting to sound like Obiagu1, OfoIgbo, NriPriest, etc. etc. . We've gone through this issue of "same vs similar" societal structures before. Anyone familiar ought not be making any statement like the above.

Language is also what has unified your Yoruba group

not really true.

tpia@:

not really true.

yes really true. Now scram.

tpia@:

not really true.

Language is the easiest way to link people of same origin.There is no doubt about it.Evolution is however one thing we cannot stop.Igbos evolved independently and over the years and were never under a single unifying empire like the Yorubas.The unity of the Igbos just like the Ijaws came more as a modern political arrangement than as an already existing nation .

It is therefore not wrong for a cheated part to proclaim their distinct status.I understand the point of view of the Ikwerre better now.Under the "we are Igbo" arrangement prior to 1970,the names of the towns were standardized to suit the larger Igbo but they felt excluded from the scheme of things.The war was a big opportunity to pull out of the "we are Igbo" in which they felt marginalised.My problem with that is however the timing and the lie about their origin by some of the elders.

An example in Imo State, we have the Orlu zone which consists basically of three different peoples.The Ohaji/Egbema/Oguta(Oru), The Orsu/Oru and the Isu/Nkwerre/Ideato(Isuama).Apart from Nzeribes military connection which got the Oguta man a fair share during the military era, the Orlu zone is basically a fight between two groups -The Isuama and Orsu/Oru.We the big 3 that has the oil,Agriculture and large land mass lack the population to emerge. Why there is peace is because we are highly educated and depend less on oil. I barely even know the location of the wells if not for the flaring gas that reveals the locations.

^^its not only language unifying the yoruba.

its much more than that.

not just empire either.



as per the ikwerre reference- i know its a sore point but are you sure the current names arent actually supposed to be the ones which most closely match their traditions.

Ru commonly begins place names in parts of central africa.

You are back in Igbo threads again after Chinenye gave you some extra-moral lessons not long ago.

I often return when grapevine whispers in my ears that you guys are locked in a dispute and can't find a compromise. In these moments you need a Yoruba to mediate and guide your thoughts along 'fore you choke one another.

Think about it, language is an important part of your culture; any culture! Language is primarily an exchange for mutual awareness and understanding. If you were deaf and can't speak or hear Igbo will you loose your identity as an Igbo? NO. Therefore, what makes a person Igbo? Whatever that answer is , then a creed has to be formulated around that.

Giving you example, anywhere in the world you say Allahu Akbar! Every muslim understand that creed and know how to respond, given the context of the situation. Its spoken in Arabic language but it invokes a spirit that is completely global. So Andre, find a global creed that awakens Igbo spirit, language is not doing it, you monkey!

I honestly don't get why Igbo here on NL must constantly make references to Yoruba and Hausa peoples.

I only used them as an example inorder to help deliver my point.

Why use them as an example at all? They don't exemplify the 'Igbo situation' in any way, other than the fact that we are apparently lodged here in this construct called Nigeria. A better example would have been the Ibibio groups, and even the Ijo sef, but never Yoruba and Hausa.

Why even look for a reference to begin with? Can people's points not stand in their own right?