Mr_Anony:
You have taken a multitude of jumps in your argument without following them through logically. The problem with a lot of people (and this includes you) is that they pick up a topic and then they approach the bible by pitting one verse against another verse so that which ever verses are more cancel out the other verses. That is how not to read scripture.
The scripture should be read with the understanding that the message is true. This way, whenever you come across apparent contradictions the aim should be how to reconcile them and not how to find other scripture to cancel out the ones you are not comfortable with, by doing this, you nullify the truth of the scripture and replace it with a doctrine invented by yourself.
You did not explain how else the Word and God can both be uncreated and still be One God (John 1:1). All you did was go around finding scripture where Jesus says the Father is greater than He. What you skipped was the part that tells us that the Son humbled Himself though being equal to God, He gave up His 'God privileges' so as to be manifest in the flesh.(Phil 2:5-10)

It is not a bible verse battle, but a study to find truth. You don't find truth by cutting out bits of the bible that you find uncomfortable.
It is not by how many verses you can spit but by how relevant they are to correctly defining the truth. Please don't turn the message of the gospel into another book of law where you go around seeking clauses in support of your argument.....

......The letter killeth but the Spirit giveth life

I aint cutting out truths my bro u are....

U 1st of all denied that Jesus isn't Yahwehs slave....

Then I quoted verses for u to read but still we are back @ where we started.....

If u claim I invented doctrines I wonder which 1 u didn't invent or rather which 1 u didn't pick from fellow inventors....

Already d topic under discussion was invented....

U know when and how.......

For u that know how to read d scriptures explain the ones I dropped to refute ur thoughts on this issue....

The scriptures are up there..... Please explain them......

U'll have to resort to using roman doctrines to support ur stand.........

I don't know if u've played mortal kombat b4....

There's a guy called noob saibot that has a kinda soul residing in him that runs out of him to fight or kombat his opponent b4 he engages in the actual fight...

I might say that's d kinda scenario ur defining GOD to be....

Gods omnipotence does not make him 1 suffering from bi-polar disorder......

He can't be talking to himself or degenerating himself to a lower person when he is still that same person...

That's not omnipotence....its a mental disorder........
soon u might also say the angels that are under Jesus's command,that he sends are Jesus himself that has divided himself into myriads of angels.....after all according to u that's what omnipotence means.......omnipotence can even mean we are GOD just in existing in the fleshy form....after all GOD is omnipotent and can be anything....





For example GOD cannot say he does not know when the world would come to an end but @ d same time know when it will end....


That's not omnipotence,that will be a mental disorder......

Your definition of omnipotence is not rational my bro.....

U are the 1 that needs to settle and re-examine ur doctrine to align it with all those scriptures I quote up there.......

The john 1:1 ur holding on to does not in any way negate d fact that Jesus didn't have a beginning......


the question u shuld be asking is which beginning........

I quoted 1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6 to show u d difference btw Yahweh and his son as regards if 1 was b4 the other bt u failed to see it.....

New International Version (©1984)
6.yet for us there is but one God, the Father,
FROM WHOM all things came and for whom we
live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ,
THROUGH WHOM all things came and through
whom we live.....

Have u sat down to analyze those 2 expressions. ""FROM WHOM"" and "" THROUGH WHOM""

I want ur explanation on it....

Secondly I quoted this scripture to support the 1 corinthians I just quoted...

John 6:57 which reads...

New International
Version (NIV)
57 Just as the living
Father sent me and I
live because of the
Father, so the one
who feeds on me will
live because of me.....

Jesus's existence lies on the Father his GOD...

Just as our existence as humans lie on feeding on Jesus......

I want u to extract my points.....

**##Jesus does have a life source,just as we humans do.....

That is why he could confidently and truthfully tell his disciples and d women who were present b4 his ascension @ john 20:17...

New International Version (©1984)
Jesus said, "Do not hold on to me, for I have
not yet returned to the Father. Go instead to
my brothers and tell them, 'I am returning to
my Father and your Father, to my God and
your God.'"

##New Living Translation (©2007)
"Don't cling to me," Jesus said, "for I haven't
yet ascended to the Father. But go find my
brothers and tell them, 'I am ascending to my
Father and your Father, to my God and your
God.'"

##English Standard Version (©2001)
Jesus said to her, “Do not cling to me, for I
have not yet ascended to the Father; but go to
my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending
to my Father and your Father, to my God and
your God.’”


We all as humans including Jesus share d same GOD ,life giver and life source...

No other person than Yahweh.....

I leave u to ur pagan triangle formular......

Thanks.....

truthislight:
you are the one saying that God is every where at the same time.

The bible says that Gods throne is in the heavens but his spirit is every where and from his spirit active force he knows all that is happening.

I hope you do realize that you are implying that God isn't really omnipresent but He has an omnipresent machine that keeps Him informed....just in the same way I am not all that smart but I have google.
Again, how come that God being a Spirit also has another Spirit that existed from the beginning? Psalm 139:7-12 talks about God being everywhere.
Also consider when Christ says He and the Father will come in and dwell in those that receive Christ (John 14:23). Now we have another two persons who are definitely not forces that are capable of being in multiple places at the same time?

Please think carefully about the things you are proposing.

Before I commence, I wish to state clearly that no holder of any contrary position to the Trinity of God has offered any worthwhile or acceptable answer to the difficulties associated with their position. Their answers have been on the order of Dorox's "a perfect man can sin" in answer to "how is it possible that perfection can reduce to imperfection?" and truthislight's "what about all those animals sacrificed, where is the justice in that?" or the equivalent to "how is God's Justice served in the Death of a creature of His for the doings of other creatures of His?" and ijawkid's conspicuous silence. Obviously none of these answers qualify as an answer at all. The following is my position. In it, I will show that the Trinity of God is right and correct and worthy to be accepted. If anyone rejects the explanation that I offer, they must show how it is deficient and offer a better one. Failing that, the debate will end on the note that it is worthy of acceptance and is incontrovertible as a logical position.

THE TRINITY

1. Definition
The Trinity of God, as the Bible reveals, is that there are three people who are in the Godhead. Each of them is completely God, all of them are together God. They are not three Gods, they are one God.

One perceived problem that holders of contrary views have with this definition is that the there is no such word as "trinity" in the Bible, but that argument would also work for discounting the evils of substance abuse since things like marijuana, tobacco, opium, heroin and the rest aren't mentioned or spoken of there. The Bible does not speak of the trinity or address it as a subject because it is assumed by it to be true. The letter to the Hebrews is replete with such references (Heb 1:1-4; 8-12; 3:3,4; 5:5-10; 7:3; 9:14 are some of them) as are Paul's letters (including but not limited to Col 1:14-20; Rom 1:1-4; 3:21-30; 8:9-11; 9:1,5; 1 Cor 8:5,6; 10:1-9; 12:1-13; Eph 1:3-22; 2:14-22; 3:14-17; 4:30; 5:5; Phil 2:5-11,13 and plenty more) and the rest of Scripture (far too many to present here, but notable among which are Gen 1:1; John 1:1; 17:3; Job 33:4; Is 40:13; John 15:26; Is 63:10; Matt 12:31; 28:19; and Acts 5:32).

Another problem that opponents of the concept have with it is that it is held by the Roman Catholic Church. A variant of this problem is that other religions hold plurality of gods such as triads among others. Neither of this is a logical position. A malicious liar can tell a truth because he knows that his telling it will corrupt it and make it a lie to those who know his nature leading them into deception more easily than if he had told an outright lie. Again and again, we are told that Satan wants and claims the things of God, so he can masquerade as God both to substitute Him and to discredit Him.

2. An Explanation of It
First, I will present three analogies that, to a degree, will show the logic of the concept. None of these analogies will be perfect because if they were, they would be God and that would contradict the law of creation: that that which is created can never be equal to that which created it.

(a) The Family.
The same genes, different expressions in different personalities. It is common knowledge that people with the same genetic source tend to look and behave alike, but they are quite different from one another. They are one type of people because they have the same basic nature, but express this nature in as many unique ways as there are individuals.

(b) The married couple.
Two sides of the same coin. Biblically, marriage is two unique people who are one essential person. They are so thoroughly united that even apart, what is expected of one may be found in the other. They are still two different entities but they are one in purpose, in ability, in essence.

(c) The electric cable.
A bundle of separate wires wound about each other that deliver the same current. As far as the user is concerned, it could as well be a single wire strand, but there are more than one wire and they together are one cable.

God is Love as John says in his first letter ( 1 John 4:8 ). This is the ruling concept in all the Bible. God would have to act contrary to Love for the Bible to become untrue. Any judgment of things that does not take into account the fact that God is Himself Love is judgment based on a false foundation. The very existence of all things is because God is Love. Nothing would exist if God were not Love.

Love is a transitive verb. It must have an object. Love is not mere ability, contrary to dorox's curious submission that it is. Love is an action. Love is a deed. Love is a speaking. All of these must have an object. If God was a single being alone in eternity past, then He did not love and does not have love and is incapable of love. If anyone disagrees, they must prove this wrong.

Continuing in next post

(...continuing from my last post...)

The love of oneself is selfishness. It means that one would take hold of another and sacrifice their interests to suit one's own desires. If God were a single Being, He would be such a Person. There would be no Mercy to answer His Justice, no Grace for His Righteous Demands, no Heaven against His Hell. He wouldn't care one bit if His Creation were crumbling to pieces or surviving as long as He gets His rightful worship. But this is not the God that the Bible reveals.

The Bible reveals a God Whose Loving-kindness endures forever and Whose Mercy is from generation to generation. It reveals a God of hope (a quality that speaks of patience and faith), a God Who calls to men whose hearts have rejected Him. If this is the God of the Bible, then He is a God well-acquainted with Love. If He is such, He was loving something or someone before He ever created anything. In fact, the act of creation must have a direct relationship with this Nature of Love.

We are told of the Love between Jesus and the Father, of the Love They both have for the Holy Spirit right up to the point that Jesus said that no blasphemy against Him would ever be forgiven. We know of the Holy Spirit's love for Jesus and, by implication, for the Father too. They live in a perfect circle and fellowship of Love.

How come the Three are one God? Because they are never at cross purposes. They are in utterly perfect agreement. One wishes a thing, the Other Two wish it too. Another's Desire is the other two's Desire. One's "let us..." is All's "we will..." Their agreement is utterly perfect. Had it not been so, there'd have been power tussles and horrifying struggles for supremacy. They are all in perfect submission to One Another even though none is more powerful than the others. As much as the Son chose Himself to lay down His Life for the man They created, the Father sent Him to do so and the Spirit empowered Him too. They are never independent of each other though they are each completely self-sufficient. Love alone is the explanation for such a conundrum even if sometimes Itself is a conundrum to us.

3. The Relationship of the Trinity to Creation
Why did They create? Because They love. Love is marked by giving. These utterly sufficient Beings wanted to share their perfect fellowship and utter satisfaction with intelligent beings like themselves, beings that could choose not to be part of Their fellowship. If these beings consented to Their Offer, all that They had would be theirs as well except Their Deity. It is impossible for that which is made to be equal to that which makes it or else They would share Their Deity too. The universe was made to be an expression of the Perfection of Their Fellowship. Through it, They would communicate otherwise incommunicable things to Their darling creation: man and the other intelligent beings. Love is the reason for creation. Love defines Life. Life is not merely existence or consciousness or sentience, Life is the Love of God in constant expression. This is why Eternity with God is such a wonderful thing. Take away the Love of God and Life becomes an empty echo in a void, the presence of an ability to feel joy without any joy to feel, rather is there wracking pain; or of an ability to enjoy but without anything to enjoy and a great deal to be frustrated about; or of an ability to be fruitful but without work to produce fruit in. Life without the Love of God is Death, not the going out of existence or the absence of sentience or consciousness but the loss/absence of meaning and purpose in existence.

4. The Redemption
Love is responsible. It is not possible for Love to walk past a dying man who was attacked and left for dead by robbers, much less if the dying man were a loved one. Before God created, He knew what would happen in Eden and it was already agreed that They would fix the situation by Themselves taking the responsibility for their creation's (man's) choice of disobedience. After all, if They didn't create, there'd have been no man disobeying. They accepted fully the responsibility and prepared an Answer to man's failure. It was the Son Who was to enter time and creation as part of creation to take up man's failure as His Own. But the other Two were as much involved because even while He was in the flesh, He was very much part of the Godhead still and His experience was theirs. It is only just that God Who by creating man made man's disobedience possible should also fix that disobedience. It wouldn't have been fair to saddle any other creature with the responsibility, not mentioning the fact that the work involved in fixing that situation required the same might that made it possible in the first place. This was why Jesus came: because as God, He was ultimately responsible for the situation He came to fix, and as God, He had the power to fix it. Because Jesus was God, it was possible for Him to be laden with all the sin of the world.

. . .

. . .

Because He was God, He could bear it all and cancel it out with His Death. Justice would be satisfied and, because He was God, He would rise from Death which had no power over Him. I am describing things now from His Deity because that is what is in question. We know so much about His Humanity that it has become an either/or fight: either He was God or He was man/whatever-suits-our-frenzied-brains. The Gospel is that God became man to solve man's problem. On His Human side, Jesus was raised from the dead because He was sinless and therefore should not be held by the grave; on His Deity however, He rose from the dead because He was the Lord of Life and Death had no power over Him. There are no paradoxes here. Jesus was as much God as He was Man. As Man, God raised Him up but as God He was never under the power of Death. However, the key to the whole thing is that He never exercised His Deity in all the happenings there. It was the Other Two, the Eternal Spirit through Whom He offered Himself to God and the Father Who justified Him and raised Him from the Dead, that exercised Deity in the days of His flesh. He was no less God for not exercising His powers as God, just like we are not blind just because we closed our eyes.


THE CONCLUSION

I think that I've explained the Trinity as well as the Bible affords us knowledge of. But if I have been illogical or if there is any logical disagreement with my submissions, I am fully willing to answer to them. If I perceive emotional argument against this position without any serious logical problems presented, I will not tolerate it much. I do wish that such as lay claim to the Kingdom of Christ could at least pay heed to the Christ that they subscribe to and realize that the meaning of "Christ is come in the flesh" is that it was God Almighty Himself, the one True God, Who came, not some God by any Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic reading. The significance of that statement is that it was Someone Who was under no compulsion to come and Who could have exercised a different right (the destruction of an erring creation) that came. But if that significance is unrecognized, that will be the problem of the one who turns a blind eye to it. I shall not respond to any counters that are not based on logical difficulties.

Ihedinobi: . . .

Because He was God, He could bear it all and cancel it out with His Death. Justice would be satisfied and, because He was God, He would rise from Death which had no power over Him. I am describing things now from His Deity because that is what is in question. We know so much about His Humanity that it has become an either/or fight: either He was God or He was man/whatever-suits-our-frenzied-brains. The Gospel is that God became man to solve man's problem. On His Human side, Jesus was raised from the dead because He was sinless and therefore should not be held by the grave; on His Deity however, He rose from the dead because He was the Lord of Life and Death had no power over Him. There are no paradoxes here. Jesus was as much God as He was Man. As Man, God raised Him up but as God He was never under the power of Death. However, the key to the whole thing is that He never exercised His Deity in all the happenings there. It was the Other Two, the Eternal Spirit through Whom He offered Himself to God and the Father Who justified Him and raised Him from the Dead, that exercised Deity in the days of His flesh. He was no less God for not exercising His powers as God, just like we are not blind just because we closed our eyes.


THE CONCLUSION

I think that I've explained the Trinity as well as the Bible affords us knowledge of. But if I have been illogical or if there is any logical disagreement with my submissions, I am fully willing to answer to them. If I perceive emotional argument against this position without any serious logical problems presented, I will not tolerate it much. I do wish that such as lay claim to the Kingdom of Christ could at least pay heed to the Christ that they subscribe to and realize that the meaning of "Christ is come in the flesh" is that it was God Almighty Himself, the one True God, Who came, not some God by any Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic reading. The significance of that statement is that it was Someone Who was under no compulsion to come and Who could have exercised a different right (the destruction of an erring creation) that came. But if that significance is unrecognized, that will be the problem of the one who turns a blind eye to it. I shall not respond to any counters that are not based on logical difficulties.

Now ur whole essay begs the question we've been asking...

Did GOD almighty die??

Answer.....YES or NO.....

U just wrote a comprehension up there.......

Now answer the logical and truthful question....


Was d world devoid of the almighty when christ died??

So Jesus offered up himself to himself there in heaven and also sat down @ the right hand of himself??

the trinity has made u turn d bible into some fairy tale book.....

I'll ask again did the almighty die??
Can the almighty die??
Did the almighty not know the day he himself will destroy the earth??

Did the almighty also wait for some1 almightier than him to give him revelation as revelation 1:1 tells us??

u have written just a whole lot of comprehension with out addressing these pertinent questions......

And u still have not shown us where it says the holy spirit is GOD or is a GOD...

I'm still waiting....

I was reading in between lines to find that out,but still nothing......

Explicitly show us where d bible says that....

Even d bible was explicit to call satan the GOD of this world....

It was explicit to refer to humans as ELOHIM....

It was explicit to call Jesus Mighty GOD......

It was explicit to even call demons ELOHIM......

But the bible never attached that title theos,elohim,or the english term GOD to the holy spirit....not even once.....

The term ""God the holy spirit"" was an invention that its inventors can't find in d bible....

And then u come up here to write a whole lot of stuff not proving that fact.......

U can use all d cable illustrations,all d family illustrations,that won't manufacture scriptures to support ya notions....

I had asked u earlier where in the hierarchy of headship do we place d holy spirit @ 1 corinthians 11:3 I still haven't gotten an answer.....

I say it to ur face the holy spirit isn't a person and GOD.....

Show me in d bible where it says the holy spirit is GOD.....

As for Jesus's case it has been proved that he isn't the Father and that he aint equal to his Father.....for christ sake Jesus said it with his own mouth but u refute it.....

ijawkid:

Now ur whole essay begs the question we've been asking...

Did GOD almighty die??

Answer.....YES or NO.....

U just wrote a comprehension up there.......

Now answer the logical and truthful question....


Was d world devoid of the almighty when christ died??

So Jesus offered up himself to himself there in heaven and also sat down @ the right hand of himself??

the trinity has made u turn d bible into some fairy tale book.....

I'll ask again did the almighty die??
Can the almighty die??
Did the almighty not know the day he himself will destroy the earth??

Did the almighty also wait for some1 almightier than him to give him revelation as revelation 1:1 tells us??

u have written just a whole lot of comprehension with out addressing these pertinent questions......

And u still have not shown us where it says the holy spirit is GOD or is a GOD...

I'm still waiting....

I was reading in between lines to find that out,but still nothing......

Explicitly show us where d bible says that....

Even d bible was explicit to call satan the GOD of this world....

It was explicit to refer to humans as ELOHIM....

It was explicit to call Jesus Mighty GOD......

It was explicit to even call demons ELOHIM......

But the bible never attached that title theos,elohim,or the english term GOD to the holy spirit....not even once.....

The term ""God the holy spirit"" was an invention that its inventors can't find in d bible....

And then u come up here to write a whole lot of stuff not proving that fact.......

U can use all d cable illustrations,all d family illustrations,that won't manufacture scriptures to support ya notions....

I had asked u earlier where in the hierarchy of headship do we place d holy spirit @ 1 corinthians 11:3 I still haven't gotten an answer.....

I say it to ur face the holy spirit isn't a person and GOD.....

Show me in d bible where it says the holy spirit is GOD.....

As for Jesus's case it has been proved that he isn't the Father and that he aint equal to his Father.....for christ sake Jesus said it with his own mouth but u refute it.....

For someone whose answers to the difficulties raised to his position was silence and antagonism against an undefined position when you talked at all, it is quite something that you make bold to ask me questions. Regardless, I did say that I would answer any logical difficulties raised and associated with my submission.

Now a great deal of the difficulties you raised have nothing whatever to do with my position. You should go back to Frosbel's thread and ask him those questions about Jesus standing on His Own Right Hand etc. Unless your reading of English is worse than your writing, you would have understood from my three-post comment that I said there were three people, not one.

If you're asking about the Holy Spirit, I offered a bunch of Scriptures, go read them and place arguments against the ones that address the Spirit of God. It is pure intellectual laziness to say there is no term like "God the Holy Spirit" in the Bible. What is more, if there was, wouldn't you try to spin it off the same way you've been trying to spin the Son's Deity?

And, my friend, let me warn you about something you have been careless about: Mr Anony is like my own self. We're very much in agreement in everything. But in some matters, I am far more impatient than he is with willful ignorance and foolishness, perhaps because I haven't had to deal with it extensively in those matters. If you don't take the time to read my comment and intelligently dissect it and point out logical discrepancies and inconsistencies, the best you'll get from me is silence and the worst will be angry responses. Cease from asking me foolish, illogical questions and read my comments critically. I won't warn you again.

As for a hierarchy in the Trinity, you are nuts, my friend. I spoke of a circle of love, not a ladder. When people are in a circle, you don't ask who is greater, stronger or higher than who. Jesus was in the flesh when He said that His Father was greater than Himself. He was also in the flesh when He said that He and His Father are one for which statement the Jews took up stones to kill Him justifying their action by saying that He made Himself equal to God.

There is no hierarchy in the Trinity. Love is a relationship of submission. The lover always serves the loved. And when the loved loves as well, service is mutual. The Lord of the Church washes the feet of the Church, dies for her, gains God's blessings for her. She also travails for His children, spreads His News, longs for His Day and prays for it. Is He greater or less? He is the same as much the same as your head = your body. What is your head without your body? Or your body without your head?

That is the last time I will deal with a foolish question from you, ijawkid.

Ihedinobi: As for a hierarchy in the Trinity, you are nuts, my friend. I spoke of a circle of love, not a ladder. When people are in a circle, you don't ask who is greater, stronger or higher than who. Jesus was in the flesh when He said that His Father was greater than Himself. He was also in the flesh when He said that He and His Father are one for which statement the Jews took up stones to kill Him justifying their action by saying that He made Himself equal to God.

There is no hierarchy in the Trinity. Love is a relationship of submission. The lover always serves the loved. And when the loved loves as well, service is mutual. The Lord of the Church washes the feet of the Church, dies for her, gains God's blessings for her. She also travails for His children, spreads His News, longs for His Day and prays for it. Is He greater or less? He is the same as much the same as your head = your body. What is your head without your body? Or your body without your head?

That is the last time I will deal with a foolish question from you, ijawkid.

U say my questions are foolish??

Thank u!!!!....

ur explanations on love shuld help u also answer if the almighty died.....

That shuldnt take u up to 10 seconds to give an answer,,,

U'v been all over d place saying Jesus is d same with the Father....aint it??

And just a simple straight forward question ur boiling with anger.........

I have stood to my stand that the son isn't the Father....

mind u I haven't denied the deity of Christ...

Look @ definition of deity....

de·i·ty
[dee-i-tee]

-n.,
1. a god or goddess.
2. divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity.
3. the estate or rank of a god: The king attained deity after his death.
4. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity.
5. God; Supreme Being.

My cardinal point is Jesus isn't the same with the Father and that the Father is Jesus's GOd and greater than Jesus.....

That is what u guys have not being agreeing with.....

U and anony denied Jesus's subordinacy to the Father and it got me worked up..I confirmed that Jesus is Yahwehs slave and u guys turned a deaf ear to it......

U guys are blatantly refuting bible truths..

If u wanna get angry u can,but face facts and leave roman myths alone......

I said show me where d bible explicitly calls the holy spirit GOD and ur getting angry....

What more shuld I ask??I thought we were suppose to be opening d bible to prove important points........

How can a doctrine u so hold on to not be explicit in d bible and then u claim its impeccable....

Show me,show us.......

And do that with mild temper and lowliness of mind....

Thank you.....

@Ihedinobi: Quality Write-up brother!

..........but then I think you need to relax a bit. You are getting angry and it is beginning to show. NLers can really push a person's patience - I am not insensitive to that - but there is this thing we have that is called Longsuffering.

God bless.


(Note: I am not saying this because I am the perfect example of patience. Obviously I am not. But then, I've always admired you as the more patient of the two of us)

Ihedinobi: As for a hierarchy in the Trinity, you are nuts, my friend. I spoke of a circle of love, not a ladder. When people are in a circle, you don't ask who is greater, stronger or higher than who. Jesus was in the flesh when He said that His Father was greater than Himself. He was also in the flesh when He said that He and His Father are one for which statement the Jews took up stones to kill Him justifying their action by saying that He made Himself equal to God.

There is no hierarchy in the Trinity. Love is a relationship of submission. The lover always serves the loved. And when the loved loves as well, service is mutual. The Lord of the Church washes the feet of the Church, dies for her, gains God's blessings for her. She also travails for His children, spreads His News, longs for His Day and prays for it. Is He greater or less? He is the same as much the same as your head = your body. What is your head without your body? Or your body without your head?

That is the last time I will deal with a foolish question from you, ijawkid.

So u mean 1 corinthians was talking about circles not a ladder not a strata??...

U can call me nuts but I can simply see the trinity has blurred ur vision......

Circles??

Now u got me laughing.........

Ur d 1st of trinitarians that has said this....

This ur love theory is so out of point.....

u have presumpteously negated the headship principle and ur here claiming ur right......

SMH......

ofcus I knew the trinity wuld and cannot measure up to that scripture.....

Ur explanation is complete rubbish.....

Go back and find a better explanation....don't act like u got it all right.......

That verse was written when Jesus had already ascended to the heavens.....so don't start giving me the ""Jesus was in body form"" crap......

Paul made that clear statement knowing fully well that our master had ascended to heaven........

Na wa for u o.........

ijawkid:

U say my questions are foolish??

Thank u!!!!....

ur explanations on love shuld help u also answer if the almighty died.....

That shuldnt take u up to 10 seconds to give an answer,,,

U'v been all over d place saying Jesus is d same with the Father....aint it??

And just a simple straight forward question ur boiling with anger.........

I have stood to my stand that the son isn't the Father....

mind u I haven't denied the deity of Christ...

Look @ definition of deity....

de·i·ty
[dee-i-tee]

-n.,
1. a god or goddess.
2. divine character or nature, esp. that of the Supreme Being; divinity.
3. the estate or rank of a god: The king attained deity after his death.
4. a person or thing revered as a god or goddess: a society in which money is the only deity.
5. God; Supreme Being.

My cardinal point is Jesus isn't the same with the Father and that the Father is Jesus's GOd and greater than Jesus.....

That is what u guys have not being agreeing with.....

U and anony denied Jesus's subordinacy to the Father and it got me worked up..I confirmed that Jesus is Yahwehs slave and u guys turned a deaf ear to it......

U guys are blatantly refuting bible truths..

If u wanna get angry u can,but face facts and leave roman myths alone......

I said show me where d bible explicitly calls the holy spirit GOD and ur getting angry....

What more shuld I ask??I thought we were suppose to be opening d bible to prove important points........

How can a doctrine u so hold on to not be explicit in d bible and then u claim its impeccable....

Show me,show us.......

And do that with mild temper and lowliness of mind....

Thank you.....

Please properly go through his write-up following it with the scripture he has presented and then show the faults in his theology based on that. So far, it appears to me that what you want is a battle of soundbites and that doesn't make for a robust discussion.

Mr_Anony: @Ihedinobi: Quality Write-up brother!

..........but then I think you need to relax a bit. You are getting angry and it is beginning to show. NLers can really push a person's patience - I am not insensitive to that - but there is this thing we have that is called Longsuffering.

God bless.


(Note: I am not saying this because I am the perfect example of patience. Obviously I am not. But then, I've always admired you as the more patient of the two of us)

Quality gibberish he put up there.....

How won't u espouse him??

Wuld u have objected??

For some1 who just ngeated the principal of headship just to support a pagan dogma,u call his write up quality??

SMH!!!!!!......

Mr_Anony:
Please properly go through his write-up following it with the scripture he has presented and then show the faults in his theology based on that. So far, it appears to me that what you want is a battle of soundbites and that doesn't make for a robust discussion.

Ur bro said d bible assumes the trinity to be true....can u hear that??assume??
What am I doing with both of u....

D bible simply didn't speak of the trinity because it was man made.....

That's d answer.....

Go to ya history books.......

The scriptures he put up there can be debunked right about now.....

But what's d use,when d dogma trinity is sometin u were spoon fed with.....

Later u turn around to. Accuse d catholics of heresies......

ijawkid:

Ur bro said d bible assumes the trinity to be true....can u hear that??assume??
What am I doing with both of u....

D bible simply didn't speak of the trinity because it was man made.....

That's d answer.....

Go to ya history books.......

The scriptures he put up there can be debunked right about now.....

But what's d use,when d dogma trinity is sometin u were spoon fed with.....

Later u turn around to. Accuse d catholics of heresies......

When you don't go through his write up properly and show scriptural and logically why his case is flawed, all you are doing is fighting one "spoon fed dogma" with another "spoon fed dogma". No one learns anything.

Mr_Anony:
I hope you do realize that you are implying that God isn't really omnipresent but He has an omnipresent machine that keeps Him informed....just in the same way I am not all that smart but I have google.
Again, how come that God being a Spirit also has another Spirit that existed from the beginning? Psalm 139:7-12 talks about God being everywhere.
Also consider when Christ says He and the Father will come in and dwell in those that receive Christ (John 14:23). Now we have another two persons who are definitely not forces that are capable of being in multiple places at the same time?

Please think carefully about the things you are proposing.

Jesus said that he and his father are one in agreement.

So, any that is in union with the son will automatically be in union with the father.

We all know that the holy spirit dwells in those that the father approvesof.

So, when the father or the son approves of any person the oneness or union in purpose is automatic.
the spirit of God that will dwell in the person thereof is the spirit of God and christ, it will compel the person to do the things that the two of them approves of,

it is the same spirit that God uses, it is the same spirit that christ uses it is the same spirit that the apostles uses. It is the spirit of unity not of disunity.

You seem to confuse things between the spirit creatures and the holy spirit.
While the spirit creatures are spirit persons(God, christ, angels, satan, demons)
the holy spirit is Gods power, his active force that he uses to do things that are in accordance with his will.

The holy spirit being Gods power and the most powerful force in the univers can not go Against gods will since it does not have a mind of his own but does what God wants it to do, it is an impersonal force.

Spirit creatures dont have physical body but uses this force to get things done, Ofcouse this power was aloted to them by God and it becomes their hands and legs, their power.

While this spirit creatures have a mind of their own and decides on what to do with their aloted power they are different from thier power or spirit.

Read Ephesians 2:2,3

there talked about the spirit of satan or demon as being the authority of the "air" meaning the influence from satan's power is compelling people to do what is bad.

Though satan is an entity his power is very rampant and saturate peoples minds to get them to do what is bad.

On this level also, we also have God's spirit his active force that can get people to do good, producing in people the fruitage of the spirit, joy, kindness, love, the hating of unrigheouseness.

Just like this power can animat, energies, motivate, teach,
It is this same power that God uses every where to do and know all he wishes.

Dont forget how this force was use in GENESIS during creation, going to and fro.

Satan's power or spirit is called the authority of the "air" in Ephesians.2:2 cus it saturate very where this wicked world.
peace

Mr_Anony: @Ihedinobi: Quality Write-up brother!

..........but then I think you need to relax a bit. You are getting angry and it is beginning to show. NLers can really push a person's patience - I am not insensitive to that - but there is this thing we have that is called Longsuffering.

God bless.


(Note: I am not saying this because I am the perfect example of patience. Obviously I am not. But then, I've always admired you as the more patient of the two of us)

guy, this statement is a lie.

That your 2nd half does not have patience at all, infant he is grossly impatient.

Mr_Anony:
Please properly go through his write-up following it with the scripture he has presented and then show the faults in his theology based on that. So far, it appears to me that what you want is a battle of soundbites and that doesn't make for a robust discussion.

which scripture do you want him to follow?
Is that the way to use scriptures?
Cant you see the way Ijawkid has been

quote scriptures on this thread?
The Guy did not quote or wright out any scripture and use it to explain his stand but dump a bunch of unrelated scriptures and you say he quoted scriptures?

How will someone just reading through this thread benefit from those portions he dump there?

Is that the way to use God's word to teach?

Mr_Anony: @Ihedinobi: Quality Write-up brother!

..........but then I think you need to relax a bit. You are getting angry and it is beginning to show. NLers can really push a person's patience - I am not insensitive to that - but there is this thing we have that is called Longsuffering.

God bless.


(Note: I am not saying this because I am the perfect example of patience. Obviously I am not. But then, I've always admired you as the more patient of the two of us)

Thank you, my dear brother, for helping me. I have to get off the thread for a bit now to cool off. I have no doubts regarding your ability to answer for the position that I have presented because I'm sure that it is yours as well. Perhaps I will be brought back here by the Lord but for now, I must leave.

@ijawkid, I assure you that you weary me and annoy me with your roundabout arguments. But I will accommodate you one last time and leave you to my brother from now until I see that coming back will not harm you.

Jesus Christ was Man. Jesus Christ was God. As Man, of course, He was not equal to God. That which is created is never equal to that which created it. His humanity, His form as a man, was a created thing, therefore in that form, He was lower than, not just God, but the angels as well, until God exalted Him to His Right Hand above all other creatures. This was in His form as man. But in His form and nature as God, He is equal to God. He cannot be lower than God in that form. Some things written about Him are written of Him as a Man, others as a God. It is an intellect under the government of the Spirit of God that sees the total unity of the two in one Person.

Also, I have never said that Jesus and the Father are one Person. I said that the Father is one Person and Jesus is Another and they both are God individually and together. I explained why there are not multiple Gods even though there are three People with the God-Nature. You cannot effectively refute my argument if you create it yourself. My argument is that there are three People each having the God-Nature and Ability, but their love for One Another binds them together so powerfully that they are essentially One and never disagree. If they loved one another less, we would have been created in a chaotic multiverse and been characterized by war. And if we had a Gospel at all, it would not be one of loving one another and bearing one another, but fighting one another and proving greater strength than the next person. That is my position. It is Frosbel who says that God is one Person with different manifestations, not I. Address my own arguments, not your twisting of them. Read them as I have written them and answer them according to them.

@all, I beg you all excuse me. This debate has grown too frustrating for me. My objective was to explain the Christian's true nature in the light of his Progenitor. If God is something other than Love, then the Christian cannot claim a Nature of Love. And if God is Love, then there must be fellowship in God in which this Love is expressed and to which the Christian has been added because of the Nature he received at the New Birth. The Trinity of God is crucial to the Christian's understanding of what he is and what he isn't. It was no mere talk that the Bible said that the test of truth in any man or spirit is in what light they hold Christ. The Christian holds that Christ is God-become-man because that putting on of flesh by the Son of God was in order to give the Christian what God intended for Adam's race when He created Adam but which Adam failed of attaining to: fellowship with the Most High. It is then necessary to understand what this fellowship is that we who have become Christians and those who will yet be added are called to. Had it not been so, I would not make this thread. I have, but continuing the wrangle with some of the commenters here will corrupt the meanings that I was commissioned to deliver, therefore I leave right now that those meanings may be preserved.

@Ihedinobi

why do YOU even closely IMAGINE that those your lengthy narative closely explain trinity?

1. You said that "christ came to resolve a problem he is fully responsible for"

2. That the holy spirit is a God

3. That they are 3 seperat, person( is the holy spirit a person?)

4. that the holy spirit DECIDED to empower Jesus (not the father sending the holy spirit to Jesuse)

infact, there are too many assumption that you have made that made me to wander if you have the fear of God at all.

You have the face to state that Jesus christ is the cause of the rebelion in the garden of eden, since he was the one responsible for this whole mess and that is why he can rightly be the one that can fully be the one to fixe it?

So Jesus is the root problem of all the suffering of man in the whole of man history?

And he came to earth to deceive us?

You have the gut to lay aside all that the bible said is the course of mans fall and put the blame on Jesus?

So all this things the bible said was a deceit to us all along?

It is to you that this your spirit has reveal the truth to abi?

My advice to you is for you to run far far far from this you spirit cus it is you head it is looking for.

All you have written is twisted, i dont know why a guy like Anony that has conscience though on the wrong side can be sticking with a no conscience fellow like you.

jesus is the almighty God then satan was tempting him on earth to fall?
Satan told the almihty God to ask God to turn stone to bread? What a twist?

Since the bible is not your final authority but that your spirit that reveal this thing to you is your authority, i dont know why i am discussing with you any further on this thread.

If other trinitarian should read what you just wrote they will Behead you since that is what trinitarians do to people that contradict them, and you want to do same to Ijawkid if not that its an internet Forum.

Some people want to defend trinity so that they can open a church and collect tith, cus they will not let to register a church if they dont accept trinity.

If you dont accept the standard trinity what are you still doing with the word trinity but for selfish reason.

Things you cant proof from the bible you have the audacity to dump scriptures you know you cant relate with what you where vomiting but you want to deceive people that your stand is from the bible, are you so bend?

Imagine, Jesus kept this world the way it is that is why justice demand that he comes and clear the problem.
He takes the responsibly! What an insult.

In Isaiah the prophesy said that there was silence in heaven when the questions was ask "who shall i send and Jesus said here i am send me"
but you said he own up to the responsibility of what he started.
Started what? Satan and Adam rebelion?

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, since you dont have it look at what it has turned you into.

Well i wrote a whole write up and lost d whole thing while posting, since it would be strenous it rewrite it i decided to paste this link for d pleasure of ijawkid and cn. [url]Http://m.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa/FP/FP031.html[/url]
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1042.htm
it is d summa theologica of st thomas aquinas. All ur objections were addressed + other objections u havent heard of.
Peace

Ubenedictus: Well i wrote a whole write up and lost d whole thing while posting, since it would be strenous it rewrite it i decided to paste this link for d pleasure of ijawkid and cn. [url]Http://m.ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa/FP/FP031.html[/url]
http://www.newadvent.org/summa/1042.htm
it is d summa theologica of st thomas aquinas. All ur objections were addressed + other objections u havent heard of.
Peace

Thanks

truthislight: @Ihedinobi

why do YOU even closely IMAGINE that those your lengthy narative closely explain trinity?

1. You said that "christ came to resolve a problem he is fully responsible for"

2. That the holy spirit is a God

he didnt say d holyspirit is a God, he said d holyspirit is God

3. That they are 3 seperat, person( is the holy spirit a person?)

4. that the holy spirit DECIDED to empower Jesus (not the father sending the holy spirit to Jesus)

infact, there are too many assumption that you have made that made me to wander if you have the fear of God at all.

my dear u are dancing round in circles.

You have the face to state that Jesus christ is the cause of the rebelion in the garden of eden, since he was the one responsible for this whole mess and that is why he can rightly be the one that can fully be the one to fixe it?

So Jesus is the root problem of all the suffering of man in the whole of man history?

And he came to earth to deceive us?

You have the gut to lay aside all that the bible said is the course of mans fall and put the blame on Jesus?

So all this things the bible said was a deceit to us all along?

It is to you that this your spirit has reveal the truth to abi?

My advice to you is for you to run far far far from this you spirit cus it is you head it is looking for.
All you have written is CRAP, i dont know why a guy like Anony that has conscience though on the wrong side can be sticking with a no conscience fellow like you.
jesus is the almighty God then satan was tempting him on earth to fall? What CRAP.
Since the bible is not your final authority but that your spirit that reveal this CRAP to you is your authority, i dont know why i am discussing with you any further on this thread.

If other trinitarian should read what you just wrote they will Behead you since that is what trinitarians do to people that contradict them, and you want to do same to Ijawkid if not that its an internet Forum.

Some people want to defend trinity so that they can open a church and collect tith, cus they will not let to register a church if they dont accept trinity.

If you dont accept the standard trinity what are you still doing with the word trinity but for selfish reason.

Things you cant proof from the bible you have the audacity to dump scriptures you know you cant relate with what you where vomiting but you want to deceive people that your stand is from the bible, are you so bend?

Imagine, Jesus kept this world the way it is that is why justice demand that he comes and clear the problem.
He takes the responsibly! What an insult.

In Isaiah the prophesy said that there was silence in heaven when the questions was ask "who shall i send and Jesus said here i am send me"
but you said he own up to the responsibility of what he started.
Started what? Satan and Adam rebelion?

The fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, since you dont have it look at what it has turned you into.

now u are talking crap.
Peace

Ubenedictus: he didnt say d holyspirit is a God, he said d holyspirit is God

my dear u are dancing round in circles.

now u are talking crap.
Peace

you catholics have a creed that state and defines your trinity and i believe that it is what you are defending?
Is it?
Is this your catholic trinity or it is the name that is deceiving you?
Dont you have a standard?

You want to defend the word trinity as though it is a bible word.
My sympathy.

Dear friend i hope u dont mind if i put in scripture reference in ur post

Ihedinobi:

Thank you, my dear brother, for helping me. I have to get off the thread for a bit now to cool off. I have no doubts regarding your ability to answer for the position that I have presented because I'm sure that it is yours as well. Perhaps I will be brought back here by the Lord but for now, I must leave.

@ijawkid, I assure you that you weary me and annoy me with your roundabout arguments. But I will accommodate you one last time and leave you to my brother from now until I see that coming back will not harm you.

Jesus Christ was Man.

jn1:14

Jesus Christ was God.

jn1:1

As Man, of course, He was not equal to God. That which is created is never equal to that which created it.

jn14:28.

His humanity, His form as a man, was a created thing, therefore in that form, He was lower than, not just God, but the angels as well,

heb2:9

until God exalted Him to His Right Hand above all other creatures.

phil 2:9

This was in His form as man. But in His form and nature as God, He is equal to God.

phil2:6, heb1:8 heb1:3.

He cannot be lower than God in that form. Some things written about Him are written of Him as a Man, others as a God. It is an intellect under the government of the Spirit of God that sees the total unity of the two in one Person.

very true.

Also, I have never said that Jesus and the Father are one Person. I said that the Father is one Person and Jesus is Another and they both are God individually and together. I explained why there are not multiple Gods even though there are three People with the God-Nature.

matt28:19

You cannot effectively refute my argument if you create it yourself. My argument is that there are three People each having the God-Nature and Ability, but their love for One Another binds them together so powerfully that they are essentially One and never disagree. If they loved one another less, we would have been created in a chaotic multiverse and been characterized by war. And if we had a Gospel at all, it would not be one of loving one another and bearing one another, but fighting one another and proving greater strength than the next person. That is my position. It is Frosbel who says that God is one Person with different manifestations, not I. Address my own arguments, not your twisting of them. Read them as I have written them and answer them according to them.

@all, I beg you all excuse me. This debate has grown too frustrating for me. My objective was to explain the Christian's true nature in the light of his Progenitor. If God is something other than Love, then the Christian cannot claim a Nature of Love. And if God is Love, then there must be fellowship in God in which this Love is expressed and to which the Christian has been added because of the Nature he received at the New Birth. The Trinity of God is crucial to the Christian's understanding of what he is and what he isn't. It was no mere talk that the Bible said that the test of truth in any man or spirit is in what light they hold Christ. The Christian holds that Christ is God-become-man because that putting on of flesh by the Son of God was in order to give the Christian what God intended for Adam's race when He created Adam but which Adam failed of attaining to: fellowship with the Most High. It is then necessary to understand what this fellowship is that we who have become Christians and those who will yet be added are called to. Had it not been so, I would not make this thread. I have, but continuing the wrangle with some of the commenters here will corrupt the meanings that I was commissioned to deliver, therefore I leave right now that those meanings may be preserved.

very true.
Peace and blessings.

Ihedinobi: As for a hierarchy in the Trinity, you are nuts, my friend. I spoke of a circle of love, not a ladder. When people are in a circle, you don't ask who is greater, stronger or higher than who. Jesus was in the flesh when He said that His Father was greater than Himself. He was also in the flesh when He said that He and His Father are one for which statement the Jews took up stones to kill Him justifying their action by saying that He made Himself equal to God.

There is no hierarchy in the Trinity. Love is a relationship of submission. The lover always serves the loved. And when the loved loves as well, service is mutual. The Lord of the Church washes the feet of the Church, dies for her, gains God's blessings for her. She also travails for His children, spreads His News, longs for His Day and prays for it. Is He greater or less? He is the same as much the same as your head = your body. What is your head without your body? Or your body without your head?

That is the last time I will deal with a foolish question from you, ijawkid.

very true, i couldnt agree more.
Ubenedictus

Thank you, Ubenedictus.

You want to divide and conquer uh?

truthislight:
you catholics have a creed that state and defines your trinity and i believe that it is what you are defending?
Is it?

it is

Is this your catholic trinity or it is the name that is deceiving you?

my dear friend it is. The love perspective used here is d same with that of st augustine, anony's perspective is same with niceae both are d same and accepted in catholicism.

Dont you have a standard?

ofcourse i do, d sacred scripture, the word of God transmitted thru tradition and confirmed by the magisterium especially thru d church councils. Incase u dont know what we have been discussing was concluded in d council of niceae.

You want to defend the word trinity as though it is a bible word.
My sympathy.

hahaha do u know that 'bible' is not a bible word.
So that i can put ur mind at ease.
All trinitarians on dis thread, the nicean creed and council shows d standard for d catholic belief of d trinity those who consider that the creed is wrong may say so. The athanasian creed which i will provide in d link below also explain d trinity as it is understood by catholics, if you think that exposition of d trinity is wrong u may please say so.
http://www.ccel.org/creeds/athanasian.creed.html
dear true light i hope i have put ur mind at ease and shown u that the trinity i believe and that presented by anony nd co arent different.
Peace and blessings.

Ihedinobi: Thank you, Ubenedictus.

anony and ihedinobi u are most welcome.
Peace.

Ihedinobi:

Thank you, my dear brother, for helping me. I have to get off the thread for a bit now to cool off. I have no doubts regarding your ability to answer for the position that I have presented because I'm sure that it is yours as well. Perhaps I will be brought back here by the Lord but for now, I must leave.

@ijawkid, I assure you that you weary me and annoy me with your roundabout arguments. But I will accommodate you one last time and leave you to my brother from now until I see that coming back will not harm you.

Jesus Christ was Man. Jesus Christ was God. As Man, of course, He was not equal to God. That which is created is never equal to that which created it. His humanity, His form as a man, was a created thing, therefore in that form, He was lower than, not just God, but the angels as well, until God exalted Him to His Right Hand above all other creatures. This was in His form as man. But in His form and nature as God, He is equal to God. He cannot be lower than God in that form. Some things written about Him are written of Him as a Man, others as a God. It is an intellect under the government of the Spirit of God that sees the total unity of the two in one Person.

Also, I have never said that Jesus and the Father are one Person. I said that the Father is one Person and Jesus is Another and they both are God individually and together. I explained why there are not multiple Gods even though there are three People with the God-Nature. You cannot effectively refute my argument if you create it yourself. My argument is that there are three People each having the God-Nature and Ability, but their love for One Another binds them together so powerfully that they are essentially One and never disagree. If they loved one another less, we would have been created in a chaotic multiverse and been characterized by war. And if we had a Gospel at all, it would not be one of loving one another and bearing one another, but fighting one another and proving greater strength than the next person. That is my position. It is Frosbel who says that God is one Person with different manifestations, not I. Address my own arguments, not your twisting of them. Read them as I have written them and answer them according to them.

@all, I beg you all excuse me. This debate has grown too frustrating for me. My objective was to explain the Christian's true nature in the light of his Progenitor. If God is something other than Love, then the Christian cannot claim a Nature of Love. And if God is Love, then there must be fellowship in God in which this Love is expressed and to which the Christian has been added because of the Nature he received at the New Birth. The Trinity of God is crucial to the Christian's understanding of what he is and what he isn't. It was no mere talk that the Bible said that the test of truth in any man or spirit is in what light they hold Christ. The Christian holds that Christ is God-become-man because that putting on of flesh by the Son of God was in order to give the Christian what God intended for Adam's race when He created Adam but which Adam failed of attaining to: fellowship with the Most High. It is then necessary to understand what this fellowship is that we who have become Christians and those who will yet be added are called to. Had it not been so, I would not make this thread. I have, but continuing the wrangle with some of the commenters here will corrupt the meanings that I was commissioned to deliver, therefore I leave right now that those meanings may be preserved.

You should rather commend Ijawkid for his ability to put up with your arrogance and insults.

Your lengthy, but empty write up, is a reflection of your arrogance and overblown sense of self-importance and knowledge.

You raised false expectations by making your trinitarian brothers think you have something solid to offer. I am sure many of them are disappointed somehow.

Do you remember the saying about an empty sac?

I am glad you appreciate the effort made by Mr Anony at readjusting you. Many would have done the same, perhaps they doubt your type admits mistakes and takes corrections.

Among other things, your unchristlike attributes belie your claim of having divine calling

ijawkid:

I aint cutting out truths my bro u are....

U 1st of all denied that Jesus isn't Yahwehs slave....

phil 2:6,7,8 explains d situation, he emptied himself of glory and became as a slave.

U know when and how.......

can u please inform me?

U'll have to resort to using roman doctrines to support ur stand.........

hahaha, and accding to u everytin frm d catholic church is wrong right?

He can't be talking to himself or degenerating himself to a lower person when he is still that same person...

what are u talking about, the father and son are not d same person, pls correct that misunderstanding, the father and son has dsame nature and substance but they are not dsame person. Since they are not dsame person they can communicate love and it isnt about been bi polar.

omnipotence can even mean we are GOD just in existing in the fleshy form....after all GOD is omnipotent and can be anything....

now i cant help laughing.

For example GOD cannot say he does not know when the world would come to an end but @ d same time know when it will end....

u miss it again, his human mind is incapable of that knowledge, and if it was, he wouldnt know dat date so he could tell us.

Your definition of omnipotence is not rational my bro.....

ur understanding of it is deficient.

The john 1:1 ur holding on to does not in any way negate d fact that Jesus didn't have a beginning......


the question u shuld be asking is which beginning........

d bible says Jesus was there before d foundation of d world, my dear b4 d foundation of d world it was eternal,

I quoted 1 corinthians 8:5 $ 6 to show u d difference btw Yahweh and his son as regards if 1 was b4 the other bt u failed to see it.....

New International Version (©1984)
6.yet for us there is but one God, the Father,
FROM WHOM all things came and for whom we
live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ,
THROUGH WHOM all things came and through
whom we live.....

Have u sat down to analyze those 2 expressions. ""FROM WHOM"" and "" THROUGH WHOM""

I want ur explanation on it....

Secondly I quoted this scripture to support the 1 corinthians I just quoted...

John 6:57 which reads...

New International
Version (NIV)
57 Just as the living
Father sent me and I
live because of the
Father, so the one
who feeds on me will
live because of me.....

Jesus's existence lies on the Father his GOD...

it seem u just found out, didnt u hear what has been said over and over that the faither beget d son? And it seem u dont read d whole scripture, john5:26, ''just as d father has life in himself so he has granted d son to have live in himself'' do u understand that? When a perfect being begets he replicates his perfection just the same way that a imperfect being replicates imperfection, when d father beget he son jn6:57 was shows it but when a being that has life in him self begets, the offspring is like d parent and jn5:26 say it d son also has life in himself like d father.

**##Jesus does have a life source,just as we humans do.....

yeah his fada gave him divine life, but after he recieved dat like he now has life in himself. Christ is d 2nd adam a life giving spirit. GOD sustains our existence but d life of christ doesnt need sustaining becos 'he has life in himself'

That is why he could confidently and truthfully tell his disciples and d women who were present b4 his ascension @ john 20:17...

and heb1:8 shows that d father also calls his son God.

We all as humans including Jesus share d same GOD ,life giver and life source...

can u tell me why thru out d gospel of john Jesus never call God 'our God'? He always said 'my God, ur God' d answer is simple, d father is not God over christ as he is over us.

I leave u to ur pagan triangle formular......
Thanks.....

hahaha, u see paganism everywhere. I pray God open d eyes of ur mimd to see his love and design in all things.
Peace and blessings.

Freksy:

You should rather commend Ijawkid for his ability to put up with your arrogance and insults.

Your lengthy, but empty write up, is a reflection of your arrogance and overblown sense of self-importance and knowledge.

easy! Now u are insulting.

You raised false expectations by making your trinitarian brothers think you have something solid to offer. I am sure many of them are disappointed somehow.

im not, his perspective of d trinity is good and solid, if God has been a lover beford d word was created, if love is d essence of God and God is love, then d father must has a beloved from all eternity, simple logic drawn frm scriptures.

Do you remember the saying about an empty sac?

I am glad you appreciate the effort made by Mr Anony at readjusting you. Many would have done the same, perhaps they doubt your type admits mistakes and takes corrections.

Among other things, your unchristlike attributes belie your claim of having divine calling

easy! Easy! My bible tells me that d strong must bear with d weak, those who have a better temper should bear with those who temper arent so good not insult them. I think the insultin attitude becos of his temper is unchristian.
Peace and divine blessing unto u.