k2039: My whole point is Jesus' Holy/immaculate conception by Mary and the Holy Spirit doesnt prove to us that Mary was free from sin,So far Mary's conception by her parent was a result of the union of her father and mother,that alone defiles her and makes her a sinner,Everyone born of a man has a sinful status,all have sinned and mary is not an exception.
Study your Bible.

if mary is not immaculate,then why was she chosen? I know that somebody must surely be chosen,but why is she the one? You're arguing if she's a immaculate but we know very well that the holy spirit doesn't engage HIMSELF with any thing dirty or corrupt.

Antivirus92: if mary is not immaculate,then why was she chosen? I know that somebody must surely be chosen,but why is she the one? You're arguing if she's a immaculate but we know very well that the holy spirit doesn't engage HIMSELF with any thing dirty or corrupt.

Have really learnt a lot,am really enjoying this whole discussion.
Mary was immaculate(at the time of Jesus' conception),she was Holy according to the standard then but she wasnt sinless as she is portraid by the catholics.Let me explain what I mean.

There are seven distinct ages(dispensation) throughout the entire gamut of Human history. They start and end in paradise, but O what a difference between the beginning and the end of this matter. Human history begins with Paradise Lost(Eden); it ends with Paradise Restored(Heaven).
The seven ages are:
1. The Age of Innocence
2. The Age of Conscience
3. The Age of Human Government
4. The Age of Promise
5. The Mosaic Law
6. The Dispensation of Grace
7. The Millennial Reign of Christ and the Redeemed.
I dont have the time to explain everything,but I will explain the ones relevant to our discussion.
In the dispensation of law, God gave detailed instructions about how to live, how to structure society, and how to live justly and righteously as a nation. The people said this was good; they could implement these laws and create an upright society. They said in Exodus 19:8 , “All the Lord has spoken we will do.”
At Mount Sinai, the Israelites encamped, and Moses went up to the mountain to hear the Word of the Lord. For them, that Wordis the law. This is not just the Ten Commandments written by the finger of God on tablets of stone, but the 613 moral and ceremonial laws contained in the books of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.
The Dispensation of Grace is what we sometimes call the churchage. It is highly relevant to us, because we live in this age. For the first five ages, we can only look back in history to see how God worked in the past. But in this age, we can see how God is working now. The sacrificial death of Jesus Christ on the cross introduced a dispensation of unmerited favor, called grace. Instead of requiring man to live righteously by keeping the law,the righteousness of Another, is imputed to undeserving men and women.
Perhaps the most pertinent scripture for this age is where Paul said: By grace we are saved through faith and not our works. Ephesians 2:8-9 .

k2039:
Have really learnt a lot,am really enjoying this whole discussion.
Mary was immaculate(at the time of Jesus' conception),she was Holy according to the standard then but she wasnt sinless as she is portraid by the catholics.Let me explain what I mean.

and you believed that that same path your so called 'saviour' followed to this earth can later be dirty or defiled? For me i believe that God has prepared her for that job alone and gave her certain graces that will always enable her to keep herself clean which we ordinary humans lack. We doesn't do use and drop.

Mary was born during the dispensation of Law,which means the basis for her justification,will be her obedient to the mosiac law.So if she sinned all she had to do was offer the necessary sacrifice to atone for the sin

Antivirus92: and you believed that that same path your so called 'saviour' followed to this earth can later be dirty or defiled? For me i believe that God has prepared her for that job alone and gave her certain graces that will always enable her to keep herself clean which we ordinary humans lack. We doesn't do use and drop.

Guy relax,am not done,am using my phone,so it will take me a lot of time to finish my write up.

“And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named ofthe angel before he was conceived in the womb. And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him tothe Lord; (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male thatopeneth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons.” (Luke 2:21-24)
In the passage above, we are given further proof that Mary wasa mere mortal like the rest of us. Mary observed the Jewish Lawand she did exactly what that Law told her to do (see Leviticus 12:1-. Mary was unclean for seven days and on the eighth dayshe brought Jesus to be physically circumcised, in accordance with Leviticus 12:2-3. Mary then continued in her days of purification (33 days) because that was what was required of her under the Jewish law (Leviticus 12:4). Mary then brought forth the required sacrifices as is written in the following scripture:
“And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring twoturtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean.” (Leviticus 12:
As recorded in Luke’s gospel account (Luke 2:24), Mary brought forth the offerings required in “the law of the Lord.” It is most important that you see that one of the offerings was for the burnt offering and the other one was for a SIN offering. To declare that the Jewish virgin Mary was conceived without sin isto dispute and contradict scripture. So we may rightly conclude, that according to scripture, Mary was in fact a sinner.

“And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Savior. For he hath regarded the low estate of his handmaiden: for, behold, from henceforth all generations shall call me blessed. For he that is mighty hath done to me great things; and holy is his name. And his mercy is on them that fear him from generation to generation. He hath shewed strength with his arm; he hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts. He hath put down the mighty from their seats, and exalted them of low degree. He hath filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away. He hath holpen (helped) his servant Israel, in remembrance of his mercy; As he spake to our fathers, to Abraham, and to his seed for ever. And Mary abode with her about three months, and returned to her own house.” (Luke 1:46-56)
In the passage above we find Mary giving all the praise and glory to God because he regarded her low (humble )estate. Mary also rejoiced in God her Savior, and we know that only sinners need a Savior.
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23)
Mary also recognized the fact that the Lord was remembering the mercy that He had promised to Israel through Abraham andHis seed (offspring).
The Lord chose this humble Jewish virgin to bring forth Jesus into the world. He would bring redemption to both Jew and Gentile.
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth hisSon, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons. And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit ofhis Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.” (Galatians 4:4-6)
The Lord came into this world at just the right time. The fact that Jesus would be born of a virgin was prophesied by Isaiah hundreds of years before the event actually happened!
“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.” (Isaiah 7:14)
The word Immanuel (or Emmanuel) means God with us, and thattestifies to the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus would come forth from the womb of this Jewish virgin because Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit. There was no human sexual relations between Mary and a man.

Ofcourse if the catholics say that Mary was Holy,Pure,Immaculate etc,yes they are right,afterall based on the standard then she was pure,she followed the mosiac law,did the necessary attonement for her sin,the only sin she didnt commit was fornication,which was explicitly sated by the bible(virgin).
But portraying Mary as sinless is a lie,fallacy,arrant nonsense and a hoax completely from the pit of hell.
Portraying her as sinless is wrong,
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23)
Mary was infact a sinner.
There is no basis for comparison of the birth of Jesus with any other person on earth,He was the only person that was born by a virgin(the last time I checked),and His conception was by the overshadowing of the HolySpirit(last time I also checked didnt hear of any other conception by the HolySpirit) so Jesus being Holy shouldnt be a big deal.

So Mary was pure during the conception of Jesus(the scriptures shows that explicitly,but the point that she was sinless has no basis,except you want to prove otherwise.

k2039:
Prove otherwise.
God,Jesus and Holyspirit are all part of the Godhead.
Jesus Christ said a lot about God being in heaven.
John 4:16.I will pray the father and He shall send you another comforter(refering to the Holy Spirit).It definitely shows three difernt people,the Father,Jesus and the Holy spirit.
John10:30.I and my Father are one(very straight forward statement,their are two differnt people,the Father and Jesus).
I beleive Jesus wasnt a superman when He was on earth,that He was really human (Hebrews4:15,Genesis3:15),I beleive His perfection was because He was filled with the Holy Spirit(Matthew4:1),and He was really close to His father while He was here on earth(Mark1:35).That was why He could tell us that we could do greater works than His.
Paraphrasing His statement will mean,If I could do it,you can do it and even more.
Just check the bible references and you will understand what I mean.
Also check Luke23:46.
Think about it,if they werent,then why should Jesu pray to Him.(Mark1:35)

U seem to believe in the trinity and @ d same time not believe in it....

Ur colleagues who are trinity adherents would never agree with u that Jesus and the Father are 2 different persons....

Infact they'll tell u Jesus is the Father(Yahweh)....

That's d issue that has been going on here on nairaland for a while.....

And they'll tell u Jesus was God on earth...fully GOD fully man @ d same time....

chukwudi44:

This was the exact question posed to bishop nestor of constantinopole in the council of ephesus

"The child mary carried in her womb was he man or God?" I think the answer to this question will settle it.

@ijaw kid

Since you are not a trinitarian I would rather spend my energy convincing you on Jesus's divinity but for those who claim to be trinitarians yet refuse to honour her as the mother of God on what basis rests your convictions

If u had noticed earlier I was of the opinion that all trinitarians in other to be consistent with the doctrine shuld agree with the fact that mary is the mother of GOD......

But it seems only the catholics uphold that.....
While d rest trinitarian apologists disagree...


That's why I was asking our freind here why he would believe in the trinity and not still believe that mary is the mother of GOD...

Because if Jesus is GOD incarnate(fully GOD and man @ d same time) then it means mary gave birth to GOD...

As for me I'm not a trinitarian....so I don't bother myself with all of that.....

chukwudi44:

Except you mean to tell me that the writer of 2 kings was drunk I won't agree with you

Oh he wasn't drunk....

Because if we assume he was drunk,then we'll have to still assume Jesus was drunker....

But God forbid!!!!

If u'll do a lil research u culd actually understand what the writer of 2kings meant by heaven.....

It was definitly not the heaven Jesus descended from that elijah ascended into....

Hope u get my point??

Jesus definitly knew elijah didn't go to the heaven we all know....

Please I beg u,elijah didn't go to heaven.....

chukwudi44: The word trinity is not mentioned anywhere in the bible.but the concept of trinity is explined in the bible.it was also explicitly taught by the apostolic fathers and other church fathers who had the opportunity of hearing from the apostles.By simple definition,trinity is defined as stated below;

The Christian doctrine of the Trinity defines God as three divine persons (Greek: ὑποστάσεις):[1] the Father, the Son (Jesus Christ), and the Holy Spirit. The three persons are distinct yet coexist in unity, and are co-equal, co-eternal and consubstantial (Greek: ὁμοούσιοι).

This was the definition given by those who coined the term.Any other view about the God head should be given another nomenclature as this one is already taken.

Oboy the latest is that the trinity dogma has been modified....its no longer 3 divine persons..it is now 1 person manifesting in 3 different ways........

Na wahala this doctrine don give mankind no be small.......

k2039: Ofcourse if the catholics say that Mary was Holy,Pure,Immaculate etc,yes they are right,afterall based on the standard then she was pure,she followed the mosiac law,did the necessary attonement for her sin,the only sin she didnt commit was fornication,which was explicitly sated by the bible(virgin).
But portraying Mary as sinless is a lie,fallacy,arrant nonsense and a hoax completely from the pit of hell.
Portraying her as sinless is wrong,
“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” (Romans 3:10)
“For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;” (Romans 3:23)
Mary was infact a sinner.
There is no basis for comparison of the birth of Jesus with any other person on earth,He was the only person that was born by a virgin(the last time I checked),and His conception was by the overshadowing of the HolySpirit(last time I also checked didnt hear of any other conception by the HolySpirit) so Jesus being Holy shouldnt be a big deal.

Excellent point.....

ijawkid:

U seem to believe in the trinity and @ d same time not believe in it....

Ur colleagues who are trinity adherents would never agree with u that Jesus and the Father are 2 different persons....

Infact they'll tell u Jesus is the Father(Yahweh)....

That's d issue that has been going on here on nairaland for a while.....

And they'll tell u Jesus was God on earth...fully GOD fully man @ d same time....

Ijawkid just like Chukwudi44 stated in one of his post,He said something like 'understanding the trinity is really complex',tried searching for the post,but cant find it.
The bottom line is 1corinthian13:9 We know only a portion of the truth and what we say about God is always incomplete(The Message Bible).
One can only explain/understand the concept of trinity through the help of the Holy Spirit and the Bible(Still at that it will still be minute).
I feel the bible should be checked in light of other verses and not just taking verses out of context.
Let us consider the verse in the bible that I really think refered to trinity in the bible.
1John5:7(funny enough just checked my message bible and that verse was omitted,felt the message bible would have explained better,whao).So there are three witnesses in heaven,the Father,the word,the Holy Spirit,and this three are one (AMP).
It so clear that they are three(1,2,3).They are one could probably mean that the three agree(not really sure if thats the meaning of the oneness).But Jesus layed so much emphasis on the fact that the Father was in heaven,he said that a lot of time,so it is clear from scripture that Jesus was never the Father.If he made it clear that the father was in heaven and He(Jesus) said this on earth then it is clear that they are two different persons(Even He prayed to the father while He was on earth,think about it why pray to the father if He was the father,their are a lot of scripture references to backk them up in my previous post).

ijawkid:


Oboy the latest is that the trinity dogma has been modified....it is now 1 person manifesting in 3 different ways.........

I dont have a issue with all this stuffs,my point is you have to explain to me,how that came about,and if I cant find the basis in the bible,then I wont agree(Act17:11)
1 person manifesting in 3 different ways sounds razz.
So father,Jesus and HolySpirit is not a person,it is a way.
I disagree
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth hisSon, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Jesus is a person.
There point has no biblical basis

ijawkid:

Oh he wasn't drunk....

Because if we assume he was drunk,then we'll have to still assume Jesus was drunker....

But God forbid!!!!

If u'll do a lil research u culd actually understand what the writer of 2kings meant by heaven.....

It was definitly not the heaven Jesus descended from that elijah ascended into....

Hope u get my point??

Jesus definitly knew elijah didn't go to the heaven we all know....

Please I beg u,elijah didn't go to heaven.....

My take on this,Elijah must have been at Abrahams bosom(luke 16vs23).Jesus made it clear that no one had ascended to heaven when he was on earth then.I may be wrong but thats what I think(ofcourse when am not sure;I make that clear).

ijawkid:
That's why I was asking our freind here why he would believe in the trinity and not still believe that mary is the mother of GOD...

Because if Jesus is GOD incarnate(fully GOD and man @ d same time) then it means mary gave birth to GOD...

I may not be sure of evrything but on thiss one point I can Stand anywhere to say this that Mary was never the mother of God.Mary was the mother of Jesus,thats what the bible said.Think about it mary was not divine,Her father and mother copulated.The Holy Spirit overshadowed Mary,so the Birth of Jesus was just not Mary,the only factor that made Jesus divine was the Holy Spirit.Mary's part was just to link Jesus to the tribe of David.
I repeat Mary was the mother of earthly Jesus(love to use the word earthly because Jesus Himself pre existed Mary,He was part of the governing council of the earth in the begining)Mary was never the mother of God.
This verse makes it clear
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Read it carefuly,God SENT forth His Son(meaning the Son was in exixstence,)

This is one of the best article I have ever read.


Mary cannot be described as the Mother of God, because that would make her deity or divine. Simply put God does not have a mother. The last time that we find Mary mentioned in the Bible is in the book of Acts:
“Then returned they unto Jerusalem from the mount called Olivet, which is from Jerusalem a sabbath day’s journey. And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James. These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with his brethren.” (Acts 1:12-14)
Mary is listed in the passage above alongside the other followers of Jesus Christ. Here we find Mary in prayer and supplication along with everyone else. There is not even a hint that she held a position above anyone else in that upper room, nor is there a hint that any of them were praying to her. In the passage below we find a situation where Mary and other familymembers were outside a room where Jesus was preaching the word of God. Because of the large crowd they could not get inside:
“Then came to him his mother and his brethren, and could not come at him for the press. And it was told him by certain which said, Thy mother and thy brethren stand without, desiring to see thee. And he answered and said unto them, My mother and my brethren are these which hear the word of God, and do it.” (Luke 8:19-21)
What did Jesus do when he was told about this? When Jesus was told about this, he told them that his mother and brethren were those who were inside the room listening to him preach the word of God. Why did Jesus make such a statement? He did this because he was showing the people the difference between the natural family and the spiritual family. Yes, Mary was outside. Yes, she was the natural mother of Jesus, but Jesus was showing the people that the spiritual family is what really counts. Jesus showed no partiality even when it came right down to his natural family on this earth. Jesus did not exalt his own mother above anyone else and we should follow that example also.
Should My Focus Be On Mary Or Jesus Christ?
It is rather interesting that the Roman Catholic doctrine regarding Mary mimics actual truth regarding Jesus Christ.
The Roman Catholic teaching known as The Immaculate Conception (Mary being conceived without sin) is a DEMONIC COUNTERFEIT of the sinlessness of Jesus Christ. (2 Corinthians 5:21)
The Roman Catholic teaching of The Assumption (Mary was raised into heaven without dying) is a DEMONIC COUNTERFEIT ofthe actual ascension of Jesus Christ into heaven. (Luke 24:50-53, Acts 1:8-11)
The Roman Catholic teaching of Mary being the Queen of Heaven is a DEMONIC COUNTERFEIT of Jesus Christ being the King of Kings and Lord of Lords! (Deuteronomy 10:17, Psalm 136:3, 1 Timothy 6:15, Revelation 17:14, 19:16)
The Roman Catholic teaching of Mary as a mediator (mediatrix) is a DEMONIC COUNTERFEIT of Jesus Christ being the one and only mediator for mankind! (1 Timothy 2:5)
I do not apologize for telling you that those teachings are not of God at all. They are demonic in origin and they are meant to divert a persons attention away from the Lord Jesus Christ, whowas the only sinless human being to walk this earth. Jesus was the only person who could possibly atone for the sin of the world and that is what he did when he shed his sinless blood upon the cross. Peace has been made through the blood of the cross and a person can be reconciled back to God because of what Christ has done on the cross. (Colossians 2:14, 20, Romans5:6-10) Jesus Christ rose from the dead and he ascended into heaven where he is reigning NOW as the King of Kings and Lordof Lords. (Revelation 17:14, 19:16) After he rose from the dead he told his disciples that ALL power has been given unto him in heaven and earth, and if that does not speak of power and authority then nothing does. (Matthew 28:18-20)
I cannot overemphasize the truth that there is absolutely no hope outside of the person of Jesus Christ. Eternal life is in the Son and Mary has absolutely nothing to do with the salvation ofany soul. SATAN will do anything that he can do to divert your attention away from the only one who can save your soul, and that is Jesus Christ.

ijawkid:

And they'll tell u Jesus was God on earth...fully GOD fully man @ d same time....

Fully Divine and fully man sounds less controversial to me rather than fully God fully man.
God refers to trinity together

The trinity is one God in 3 different persons.again what catholics mean by mary is sinless is that she was born without sin.There are certain things that are mysterious and can only be understood by divine knowledge. So arguing about such things place more curses on us as we use foul languages against sacred things.

k2039:
Ijawkid just like Chukwudi44 stated in one of his post,He said something like 'understanding the trinity is really complex',tried searching for the post,but cant find it.
The bottom line is 1corinthian13:9 We know only a portion of the truth and what we say about God is always incomplete(The Message Bible).
One can only explain/understand the concept of trinity through the help of the Holy Spirit and the Bible(Still at that it will still be minute).
I feel the bible should be checked in light of other verses and not just taking verses out of context.
Let us consider the verse in the bible that I really think refered to trinity in the bible.
1John5:7(funny enough just checked my message bible and that verse was omitted,felt the message bible would have explained better,whao).So there are three witnesses in heaven,the Father,the word,the Holy Spirit,and this three are one (AMP).
It so clear that they are three(1,2,3).They are one could probably mean that the three agree(not really sure if thats the meaning of the oneness).But Jesus layed so much emphasis on the fact that the Father was in heaven,he said that a lot of time,so it is clear from scripture that Jesus was never the Father.If he made it clear that the father was in heaven and He(Jesus) said this on earth then it is clear that they are two different persons(Even He prayed to the father while He was on earth,think about it why pray to the father if He was the father,their are a lot of scripture references to backk them up in my previous post).

I like ur sincerity.....

But I'll like u to do a good research on 1 john 5:7.......its a text that doesn't appear in the original script....its a latin vulgate extract that was attached to d bible by trinitarians....

That verse is spurious that is why recent translations and renderings of the bible don't put it......

Now let me quote from other translations.....

**New International Version (©1984)
For there are three that testify:

**New Living Translation (©2007)
So we have these three witnesses--

**English Standard Version (©2001)
For there are three that testify:

**International Standard Version (©2008)
For there are three witnesses-

***Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010)
And The Spirit testifies because The Spirit is
the truth.

**GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
There are three witnesses:


**World English Bible
For there are three who testify:


But lÉt us compare it with the king james::
King James Version (KJV)
7 For there are three that bear record in
heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy
Ghost: and these three are one.




FrÓm those othe® translatiÓns do u see that the 3 witnesses in heaven found in the KJV doesn't exist in this newer translations??

I want u to do a cool research and know why....

That 1 john 5:7 was an addition,therefore an error found in the KJv......

Even @ that when ever the bible mentions or defines a collective entity as one it always signifies unity,agreement and not co-equality.....

If u read verse 8 of that 1 John 5 it tells u of the witnesses on earth......

Let's read it.....

**New International Version (©1984)
the Spirit, the water and the blood; and the
three are in agreement.

**New Living Translation (©2007)
the Spirit, the water, and the blood--and all
three agree.

**English Standard Version (©2001)
the Spirit and the water and the blood; and
these three agree.

***New American Standard Bible (©1995)
the Spirit and the water and the blood; and
the three are in agreement.

**King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
And there are three that bear witness in
earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood:
and these three agree in one.


**International Standard Version (©2008)
the Spirit, the water, and the blood-and these
three are one.......

k2039:
I dont have a issue with all this stuffs,my point is you have to explain to me,how that came about,and if I cant find the basis in the bible,then I wont agree(Act17:11)
1 person manifesting in 3 different ways sounds razz.
So father,Jesus and HolySpirit is not a person,it is a way.
I disagree
“But when the fulness of the time was come, God sent forth hisSon, made of a woman, made under the law, To redeem them that were under the law, that we might receive the adoption of sons.
Jesus is a person.
There point has no biblical basis

It seems u just recentlly became a member of nairaland/religious forum??lol...

I want u to go through all the threads that trinity has been discussed and u'll see how ur fellow trinitarians have twisted the doctrine into some kinda sh++t.....

U'll be surprised when u hear some1 say that Jesus is infact Yahweh(the Father)....

U'll be so shocked....

Please feel free to move around this forum well....

k2039:
Fully Divine and fully man sounds less controversial to me rather than fully God fully man.
God refers to trinity together

Ok na.....

I want u to really see the rationale behind the ""mary is the mother of GOD"" dogma.....

I want u to just peruse into the religion section very well and see how much the trinitiy issue has been discussed....

chukwudi44: Yes there is.I personally asked her to pray for me to her son in heaven to be able to secure a job in 2008 and she did.

Lol....!
Is it written anywhere in the bible that we should pray to the son? Let alone through the mother to the son.
Kai! Ignorance gone on rampage.
We were only instructed to pray to the father through the son. Take note!!!

k2039: Have read a lot on nairaland about Mary mother of Jesus and no disrespect on anybody.My question then "is there any where in the bible where it was written that Mary,mother of Jesus is in heaven or any evidence to ascertain that she is in heaven",so why all this fuss about mary mother of Lord Jesus being a saint.

A question 4 you, was there any sin recorded against Mary dat might prevent her 4rm makin Heaven or was there any sin committed by her dat you know? So why asking if Mary is in Heaven or not?

God only used her to bring d saviour of d world,there is nothing like asking her to pray to jesus for u dat is idol worship,if she,s in heaven only God knows.even if ur a prophet its nt a criterial for u to make heaven, d standard is HOLINESS which without,
no man can see God

computaangel: God only used her to bring d saviour of d world,there is nothing like asking her to pray to jesus for u dat is idol worship,if she,s in heaven only God knows.even if ur a prophet its nt a criterial for u to make heaven, d standard is HOLINESS which without,
no man can see God

...But we have been asking her to pray for us for centuries and we have been seeing the rewards.

The answer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IQm08Hb2ccU

computaangel: God only used her to bring d saviour of d world,there is nothing like asking her to pray to jesus for u dat is idol worship,if she,s in heaven only God knows.even if ur a prophet its nt a criterial for u to make heaven, d standard is HOLINESS which without,
no man can see God

I wonder, Is Prayer an act of worship?