What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. - Religion - Nairaland
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| What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 3:45pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
I have had some discussions/debates with some christians and they are of the opinion that atheists and muslims do not have a correct understanding of what christianity stands for. Maybe what atheists know of christianity is not what true christianity is. So i need some mature christians to provide serious answers to these following questions, as i am a serious seeker here. But i wont let go of my REASON AND LOGIC, so i may question what doesn't make sense to me instead of accepting it hookline and sinker. Here are the questions 1. What makes a person a chritian. Is it not repentance and giving one's life to Christ or any other thing has to be done to become a true christian. 2. Does God answer prayers when we call upon him. 3. What sin can a christian commit that make him become a sinner again and lose his salvation. 4. I love the character of Jesus. I'm presently reading the words of Jesus in Gospels. But can someone explain to me if this same Jesus is the one that will watch non-christians burn alive in hell. The Jesus i know about is a good man (or a deity) as contrasted to the tyrannical monster that allows people to burn in hell fire even though he had the power to prevent and even stop this. This is what i detest most about christianity. Maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm not. 5. Can you share how you discover for yourself that God is real and how others can find out for themselves that God is a real person and not just a caricature and mind conceptualisations of religions. 6. What makes the christian God a true one and what makes Islamic and African religion's God a false one? Thanks in advance to true christians in the house. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by ijawkid(m): 4:46pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
Cyrexxx boy.....can we chat on yahoo....?? Can't write much here.... Add me up.@ Wagskehinde@yahoo.com We can chat well and discuss this pertinent issues.. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by truthislight: 4:56pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
ijawkid: Cyrexxx boy.....can we chat on yahoo....?? |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 7:48pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
ijawkid: Cyrexxx boy.....can we chat on yahoo....?? Men, thanxx a lot for your kind gesture. let me hear the responses of nairaland christians first, if i'm not totally satisfied with their responses, i will chat you up. thanxx again |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by ijawkid(m): 9:31pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
cyrexx: Ok sir....:-)...... But still add me up.... I'll contribute a lil here.... |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 9:58pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
I actually saw this earlier but I was reluctant to deal with the questions because I didn't want to get embroiled in circular arguments with other commenters who might disagree with me. But at thy word, . . .  cyrexx: Acts 15:8, 11 NIV God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us. . .we believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are. Romans 8:9, 14 AMP 9 ...But if anyone does not possess the [Holy] Spirit of Christ, he is none of His [he does not belong to Christ, is not truly a child of God]. 14 For all who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. John 1:12, 13 AMP 12 But to as many as did receive and welcome Him, He gave the authority (power, privilege, right) to become the children of God, that is, to those who believe in (adhere to, trust in, and rely on) His name - 13 Who owe their birth neither to bloods (footnote: literal translation) nor to the will of the flesh [that of physical impulse] nor to the will of man [that of a natural father], but to God. [They are born of God!] The presence of the Holy Spirit in a person makes that person a Christian. 2. Does God answer prayers when we call upon him. Prayer is a conversation, heart communion between the child of God and his Father. It is always two-way. God always responds to His child. 3. What sin can a christian commit that make him become a sinner again and lose his salvation. None. 4. I love the character of Jesus. I'm presently reading the words of Jesus in Gospels. But can someone explain to me if this same Jesus is the one that will watch non-christians burn alive in hell. The Jesus i know about is a good man (or a deity) as contrasted to the tyrannical monster that allows people to burn in hell fire even though he had the power to prevent and even stop this. This is what i detest most about christianity. Maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm not. Matthew 23:29-38 AMP 29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, pretenders (hypocrites)! For you build tombs for the prophets and decorate the monuments of the righteous, 30 Saying, If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have aided them in shedding the blood of the prophets. 31 Thus you are testifying against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers' sins to the brim [so that nothing may be wanting to a full measure]. 33 You serpents! You spawn of vipers! How can you escape the penalty to be suffered in hell (Gehenna)? 34 Because of this, take notice: I am sending you prophets and wise men (interpreters and teachers) and scribes (men learned in the Mosaic Law and the Prophets); some of them you will kill, even crucify, and some you will flog in your synagogues and pursue and persecute from town to town, 35 So that upon your heads may come all the blood of the righteous (those who correspond to the divine standard of right) shed on earth, from the blood of the righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berachiah, whom you murdered between the sanctuary and the altar [of burnt offering]. 36 Truly I declare to you, all these [evil, calamitous times] will come upon this evil generation. 37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, murdering the prophets and stoning those who are sent to you! How often would I have gathered your children together as a mother fowl gathers her brood under her wings, and you refused! 38 Behold, your house is forsaken and desolate (abandoned and left destitute of God's help). 2 Peter 3:3-13 AMP 3 To begin with, you must know and understand this, that scoffers (mockers) will come in the last days with scoffing, [people who] walk after their own fleshly desires 4 And say, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the forefathers fell asleep, all things have continued as they did from the beginning of creation. 5 For they willfully overlook and forget this [fact], that the heavens [came into] existence long ago by the word of God, and the earth also which was formed out of water and by means of water, 6 Through which the world that then [existed] was deluged with water and perished. 7 But by the same word the present heavens and the earth have been stored up (reserved) for fire, being kept until the day of judgment and destruction of the ungodly people. 8 Nevertheless, do not let this one fact escape you, beloved, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day. . . |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 11:04pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
. . .9 The Lord does not delay and is not tardy or slow about what He promises, according to some people's conception of slowness, but He is long-suffering (extraordinarily patient) toward you, not desiring that any should perish, but that all should turn to repentance. 10 But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will vanish (pass away) with a thunderous crash, and the [material] elements [of the universe] will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and the works that are upon it will be burned up. 11 Since all these things are thus in the process of being dissolved, what kind of person ought (each of) you to be [in the meanwhile] in consecrated and holy behavior and devout and godly qualities, 12 While you wait and earnestly long for (expect and hasten) the coming of the day of God by reason of which the flaming heavens will be dissolved, and the [material] elements [of the universe] will flare and melt with fire? 13 But we look for new heavens and a new earth according to His Promise, in which righteousness (uprightness, freedom from sin, and right standing with God) is to abide. Deuteronomy 30:19 KJV I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live. Ezekiel 33:11 KJV . . . As I live, saith the Lord GOD, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel? Rev 14:9-11 AMP 9 Then another angel, a third, followed them, saying with a mighty voice, Whoever pays homage to the beast and his statue and permits the [beast's] stamp (mark, inscription) to be put on his forehead or on his hand, 10 He too shall [have to] drink of the wine of God's indignation and wrath, poured undiluted into the cup of His anger; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels and in the presence of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever; and they have no respite (no pause, no intermission, no rest, no peace) day or night - these who pay homage to the beast and to his image and whoever receives the stamp of his name upon him. See also Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43, 47-52, Matthew 25. I gave all the foregoing passages and references for three reasons: (1) to show that Jesus is also a Judge. In fact, He is the Standard against which everything and everyone will be tested. If anything falls short, they will be gathered into everlasting burning. (2) to show that this hell-fire thing is not a thing of cruelty. God is Just. God is Righteous. He must separate between things and put them where they belong. That which has rejected God cannot be with God in eternity. That which has embraced God cannot be out of God's Presence in eternity. (3) that it is not God's responsibility to decide anybody's destiny. Creating man is probably the closest thing to God creating a rock He cannot lift. But not quite. He made man a free agent. Man's choices create heaven or hell. If he chooses to cast himself upon the mercies of God, God will take responsibility to make life everything it should be for him. If he chooses to go it alone, God will plead until his heart gives out and he stops breathing and then God must accept his decision to go through eternity alone. The Love with which God loves is indescribable. Suffice to say that to make hell impossible for man, to close the road to hell for him, He came to take the Death of the Cross. But God cannot force anyone to choose Life. He, being Love Himself, must respect the choice of every man. His Hands are tied once a man has heard the Gospel. It is entirely up to the man to choose Christ or himself when he hears the Gospel. If he chooses Christ, God will take full responsibility to bring him into the fullness of His Promise of Life. This is heaven. If he doesn't, God will leave him to himself. That is hell. Continuing in next post. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by okeyxyz(m): 11:22pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
cyrexx:Good! god(or nature. pick one ) gave you intellect for a purpose. So you'd be doing him a disservice by not using it.cyrexx:Simple, If you understand and believe the message/principle of christ, then you are a christian. But the important question is: what is that message/principle? It is that christ has abolished the law that makes you a sinner, that law of do's and don'ts, The accuser that keeps your conscience in bondage. It has been taken away by the death and resurrection of christ, so you are now free to reconcile with and express yourself, You have become christ/god. cyrexx:Yes! cyrexx:As long as you believe the meaasage, you are a christian. you may be a s.tupid/wicked christian(and you'll suffer for it) but still a christian. cyrexx:Now this is the error. That character/person of jesus that walked amongst the jews was not the christ. He preached the message but encoded them in parables so that he could uphold the laws of moses, because the real meanings of the messages he preached actually would oppose and transgress that law. But he needed to be sinless in the face of the law, He played the role of the "law abiding" citizen so that he could see that law to it's logical conclusion whether it leads to life or death. So his death symbolizes the "fruits" of the laws of moses and his ressurection kick-starts christianity as a replacement law. cyrexx:Well, I am GOD! I'm as free as i ever can be, I do anything i want without feeling that i might commit a sin, not that i do everything(though I can) but i chose the beneficial ones. I have no conscience of sin whatsoever. cyrexx:Truth is: everybody sees god, but not everybody understands god. Every moral code is ever trying to emulate god but without understanding. Yes, even the babalawos, satanists, moslems, atheists, the jews, astrologers, ancient religions, etc, but what they see are parts & shadows & allegories, not the real picture. Even moses who supposedly spoke face to face with god did not see the real him, likewise the devil has chats with god but does not understand him, otherwise he would not have crucified jesus. Don't you wonder why almost all old traditions believe in human sacrifice? they have seen it(spiritually) performed by christ, they know there's power in it, but they don't understand it's true meaning. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 11:45pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
5. Can you share how you discover for yourself that God is real and how others can find out for themselves that God is a real person and not just a caricature and mind conceptualisations of religions. It was never really a question for me whether God was real or not. But I know that until five and a half years ago, the reality of God was an impossible thing for me to grasp. I was born into the Methodist Church. From childhood, I was really weird. I knew the Bible so intimately that it was assumed that I was born again. That was the way I grew up. My moral character was practically impeccable late into my teens. I was fully seventeen when I got exhausted with all the effort of keeping up a good behavior, but it took a few more years for me to really quit trying to prove to God that I was worthy of His Salvation. A few months before I got saved, I told God that I was really tired of trying so hard. I'd tried to be good, so good, in fact, that I screwed up many aspects of my life. Then for two years I'd tried to be bad. That's the one that cracks me up still. "Trying to be bad", yeah right! What was I? But there's the hypocrisy that was ruling my life all that time. I thought that I was good. That I'd tried and should be rewarded with salvation. But I'd never have believed it if anyone told me that that was the truth about me. I did think a few times whether God was really a reality, given that I didn't know Him despite the staggering amounts of information I had about Him. But I dismissed the thought when it began to stretch into nonsense, you know, if God created everything, who created God? Where did God come from? Is there perhaps a race of Gods from among whom He came? How is eternity going to end? Will God eventually die and then there'd be nothing again? Or will we perish and he'll make another universe? Or will we become angels and then it'll be our turn to watch Him create a universe with another race of men or some other exotic creature that we'll help Him administer and cater for? Wouldn't we get bored with living forever and ever? Bla bla bla I could sense when those thoughts were going to warp my mind so I just turned them off, or more correctly, put them on the backburner. When I got tired of trying so hard to merit salvation, I said a prayer telling God that He'd have to save me Himself if He cared to since I'd exhausted myself trying and had got nowhere with the effort. And that He shouldn't expect any help from me like saying the sinner's prayer, going to church or fellowship or whatever, to try and find Him. That if He was going to save me, He had to do it all by Himself. I never knew that that was all He'd been waiting for. Because a few months (or was it weeks, can't remember the time lapse correctly now) later, I walked into a practically empty fellowship venue (couldn't tell myself why I started going in the first place), sat down to wait an hour for the fellowship to begin and got saved. Just like that. I had no visions of God or Christ, saw no angels or anything. But I, beginning from that day, have had the reality of God established without question in my life. It's more than just a belief. It's something I know so intimately that it's impossible to explain how exactly I know. I know Him because I've "seen" Him and "see" Him still. Every reality in my life derives substance and reality from Him. There's nothing that counts in my life but as it derives completely from Him. 6. What makes the christian God a true one and what makes Islamic and African religion's God a false one? I tell you, truthfully, that I never wonder which is true and which is false. It seems pretty obvious to me. Jesus Christ is... well, He's just Love. And Love is so utterly true and real. Allah is very malevolent. He has proved himself a god that couldn't care less whether men exist or not. It makes one wonder why he bothered creating at all, if he is the true God. He's very destructive and incredibly tasking to worship. Which is why his worshippers tend toward violence in spreading his "love". Our African gods. Well, there are so many. But here in Igboland, I assure you that those that bother with our indigenous gods tend toward employing their powers to do harm. And they seem to be very needy gods too, always demanding this or that or the other, to grant this favor or withhold promised punishment (generally for a time). I think that's why we have a history of deposing them here. The Lord God is a sufficient God. He needs nothing from us, but wants us fiercely. He's like a very wealthy guy that could have any woman he wants but is mad about this really ragged one that's the slut of the town. We have nothing real to offer Him except ourselves and He says He's fine with that, that what He really wants is to be given a chance to share His stupendous wealth with us. I think that makes Him the One. Only the God Who made us could love us like that, even in our hideous mess. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by MrAnony1(m): 11:56pm On Aug 21, 2012 |
Hmm, following the topic. Watching from the sidelines. @Cyrexx, you may be interested in a book called Mere Christianity by CS Lewis .....but yeah I'm glad you are reading the words of Jesus. Please keep reading them....and please do take some time to really ponder over them in depth. Bless. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by CrazyMan(m): 1:09am On Aug 22, 2012 |
cyrexx:Well, to become a christian, you must first acknowledge that Jesus Christ is the son of God. You must believe he died for your sins and must be willing to submit your life to him. After doing that, read the scripture below 2Corinthains 5 vers 17. Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. Congratulations you are now a christian. Your sins has been forgiven. There is nothing special again you need to do once you've prayed and asked Jesus to come into your life. cyrexx: 2. Does God answer prayers when we call upon him.Yes God answers prayers. Jeremiah 33 verse 3 says Call unto me, and I will answer thee, and shew thee great and mighty things, which thou knowest not. So I believe that since it is impossible for God to lie, he would definately answer you if you call upon him. cyrexx: 3. What sin can a christian commit that make him become a sinner again and lose his salvation.I would refer you to this pssage. Galatians 5 from vers 22 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. So if you comit any of those sins, you've automatically lost your salvation. cyrexx: 4. I love the character of Jesus. I'm presently reading the words of Jesus in Gospels. But can someone explain to me if this same Jesus is the one that will watch non-christians burn alive in hell. The Jesus i know about is a good man (or a deity) as contrasted to the tyrannical monster that allows people to burn in hell fire even though he had the power to prevent and even stop this. This is what i detest most about christianity. Maybe i'm wrong maybe i'm not.First I want you to look at this passage. Mark 8 verse 38 Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels. Now we all know that Jesus is a loving, humble and kind person. But you musn't take use his gentle nature as an excuse for disobeying his word. This passage simply states that if you deny him here on earth, he would deny you before his father. If you're ashamed before him here on earth, he would be ashamed of you before his father. Finally, if you don't accept him here on earth, he would certainly reject you before his father. So my dear don't be decieved hell is real. Christ loves you, but that doesn't mean that hell doesn't exist. It exist my dear and if you don't repent of your sins, and accept him today, you're likely going to find yourself there. (God forbid) cyrexx: 5. Can you share how you discover for yourself that God is real and how others can find out for themselves that God is a real person and not just a caricature and mind conceptualisations of religions.Ok let me share my own experience with you. It happen some few years back. I used to be the wheelbarrow type of christian back then (I.e if you don't push me to church prayer meetings, fellowships etc I won't go there). This lifestyle continued in me for so many years. My turning point finally came when I was asked to take the message on one of our prayer meetings. When I was initially informed about the message and the topic I would speak on, I felt like running away because honestly, I didn't know where to begin from. But I told myself that if I run, then I would be a coward because not only have I shamed God, I have allowed the devil triumph over my life. Finally, the day came. I said a short prayer and left the house. When I eventually began the message, I felt a kind of boldness I've never experienced before. I just kept on talking. The message was on God's plans in the life of a beliver. I didn't stammer or get lost along the way. Everyrthing went fine because I asked the holy spirit for guidance. Now something unusual happened to me when I finished that message. I felt this kind of joy inside of me. Honestly, I don't know how to explain it. But I was just happy, I felt like singing through out that day. I didn't need any prophet to tell me that I was experiencing God's devine presence. So my dear God is real; and I confidently come out and and defend him anywhere because I've experienced his devine presence before. cyrexx:All I know is that I'm serving a true God. Our islamic brethen in the house can enlighten you further on the islamic god. Thanks. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 6:34am On Aug 22, 2012 |
@ Ihedinobi @ Okeyxyz @ Crazyman Thanks, guys, you are cute. im still digesting what you wrote, so i cant respond now as i'm still trying to wrap my head head around it. thanxx |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 7:18am On Aug 22, 2012 |
cyrexx: @ IhedinobiI second Mr. Anony's mere christianity by C.S lewis... I read it while I was still a christian, even had a audiobook...created a topic about it once with some links but there were no takers... Will check if I can find a new link.. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by MrAnony1(m): 7:56am On Aug 22, 2012 |
musKeeto:Hmm interesting. What turned you away from Christ? |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 8:28am On Aug 22, 2012 |
CrazyMan: Ihedinobi: if i get you right, giving one's life to Christ makes the Holy Spirit comes into one's life and eventually makes a man become a christian. but how am i sure this is not a psychological feeling of relief of escaping the hell scare of christianity. How do i know it is actually a being called Holy Spirit. i've had this experience before and i know how it feels. but all religions have their way of granting you emotional relief if you embrace them. the funny thing is that when i dumped religion altogether (i.e. became an atheist) i have an emotional relief similar to "peace of the Holy Spirit", so this alone does not validate a position, in my opinion. but if that explains what what it means to be a christian, then i understand very well what it means to be a christian Ihedinobi: okeyxyz: CrazyMan: thanks guys, but if prayer is a two-way convesation, then we should get an audience with God EVERYTIME we call upon him. but if you are honest (i believe you're all honest guys) you will agree that many sincere unselfish prayers go unanswered. its either yes, no or wait. but is that not a game of probabilities that can work for anybody in any belief system?. Even as an atheist now, some things are working for me that i would have thought they were answers to prayers, whereas i have stopped praying a long time ago. this confirms personally to me that its a game of probabilities. what is your take on that. on my fourth question about hell you replied: Ihedinobi: CrazyMan: hmmm. this is frightening. but it has not answered my basic question which leads to why i detested religion (christianity). why would an omnipotent God (if there is anything like that) need to create hell to generate worship and obedience, with full fore-knowledge that majority of his own creatures will end up there? this doesn't make sense let me give a hypothetical analogy which is more personal. imagine you were born in a strong Islamic family where you were raised to be a devout muslim and you came to strongly believe that Almighty Allah is the true Creator (as you do with Christianity and Yahweh now). you heard about Jesus but you know him as a prophet and you didnt accept him as your Lord and Saviour, which your religion demanded from you. you now died and find yourself in eternal hell fire. Do you think this Creator Judge is fair by torturing you for billion and billions of years for not accepting Christ and following Christianity. do you know that more than one billion muslims (plus more than 3-4 billion non-christians) will end up this way and God has the fore-knowledge of this? dont you see that hell scare is serving the purpose of generating followership for religions. more than six major world religions have hells. doesn't that say something to you? on my fifth question thank you for sharing your various experiences, i gained one or two things there on my sixth question, @ Ihedinobi, you chose the character of Jesus in contrast with the characters of Allah and African Gods. but do you forget that the character of Yahweh is so similar to Allah and African Gods. i can quote scriptures to show you, but i dont want you to falsely feel that i'm bashing Yahweh. but if you look closely without pre-suppositions, you will see that Jesus and Yahweh God have a totally different character. i believe whoever the people that conceptualised Jesus as God is NOT the same category of people who conceptualised Yahweh as God. some people later in history just jumbled them together, i think. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 8:33am On Aug 22, 2012 |
@ Mr Anony @ Muskeeto, thanks for the recommedation. do any of you guys have the pdf file you can send to me? i'll appreciate it a lot @ muskeeto, do you have link where i can download the audiobook? |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 9:16am On Aug 22, 2012 |
cyrexx:  I believe I do. I did not get a feeling when I got saved. I knew without a single doubt that I'd been saved when I was. At that moment, I did not understand how it was possible under the prevailing conditions then, but today I can explain very clearly how I came to be saved. Before then, when I was doing the devout routine, I enjoyed religious feelings a number of times. Whenever I started to doubt whether or not I was indeed saved (and that happened too many times, I'll warrant you), I'd pick up some event or feeling or act and try to validate it from the Scriptures and use it to convince myself that I was really born again. It's been five and a half years now since the day I was born into God's House. I've messed up worse in that time than I ever did throughout the time I worked for salvation. And I have never truly doubted my salvation. I have never needed to defend it or prove it afresh to myself or anybody. It's the foundational principle of my whole life now.thanks guys, but if prayer is a two-way convesation, then we should get an audience with God EVERYTIME we call upon him. but if you are honest (i believe you're all honest guys) you will agree that many sincere unselfish prayers go unanswered. its either yes, no or wait. but is that not a game of probabilities that can work for anybody in any belief system?. Even as an atheist now, some things are working for me that i would have thought they were answers to prayers, whereas i have stopped praying a long time ago. this confirms personally to me that its a game of probabilities. what is your take on that. You probably didn't get my answer. I said that prayer is a conversation. A conversation implies intellectual and psychological intercourse, at least. There are things that I asked for that I wasn't given. In fact, I've learned that I never get what I ask for, I always get better. But I do not only ask. Sometimes, I've only cried on my Father's shoulder. Sometimes, I haven't said anything but I left content with an understanding of my Father's good desires for me that prompt obedience in particular matters. There have been things that I meant to express as requests to my Father which He told me (our conversations are not like normal human conversations, somehow so when I say that He told me, I don't mean that I heard a voice or that I saw a picture or words were shown to my mind's "eye", whatever that is. It's something more than all that and by far more definite than all that. I never am confused about what He's said. I may be confused as to the meaning, but never as to the fact that He did speak and that He said such and such) were unnecessary to present as such. Instead, I find that those things are right in my environment. He shows them to me and educates me as to what to do with them. Prayer is unceasing for me. Sometimes, I actually take time out to say specific things to Him. Sometimes, He does that too. But we are always in unceasing communion. That's how I can tell when I'm not in sync with Him. Our feelings and thoughts are so powerfully synced. It's amazing, lovely and a little scary to believe. I mean, how could God love me so much that He'd condescend to caring about my thoughts and feelings, to wanting to hear my opinions, to sharing His Dreams and Hopes with me and even requesting me to be share with Him in them? It's maddening love. And I love Him back something fierce. Don't get me wrong, I don't run out to defend Him against His mockers ever unless they ask me specific questions. Even then, I don't answer unless I see that He wants to reach out to them by my doing so. My love for Him is incredibly personal. More personal and intimate than the love I will share with my wife. I've asked for things that He said a kind of "no" to. I said a kind because we humans see it as a no. My Father is very positive. He never says no to my requests. But some of His yeses used to come across as a no when I was younger and less experienced with Him. This is because I didn't get what I asked for. But, I did in fact get far better than I asked. It didn't look like better though till later sha. [/quote] |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 9:17am On Aug 22, 2012 |
@cyrexx: on my mobile now, try this link www.apologetics315.com/2009/02/mere-christianity-by-cs-lewis-mp3.html?m=1 @mr anony: maybe someday, we'll talk about it... |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 9:59am On Aug 22, 2012 |
cyrexx: hmmm. this is frightening. but it has not answered my basic question which leads to why i detested religion (christianity). why would an omnipotent God (if there is anything like that) need to create hell to generate worship and obedience, with full fore-knowledge that majority of his own creatures will end up there? this doesn't make sense I'll deal with God creating hell first. Some years ago, I read up on the anti-matter theory. One analogy used to explain it was a sheet of metal out of which a coin was cut. The coin that was cut out of the metal left a hole in its shape and material volume behind in the metal. The explanation said that the coin corresponded to matter while the hole corresponded to anti-matter. I could say pretty much the same thing about heaven and hell. Because heaven exists, hell also exists. Because there is an option to be with God, there is also one to be without Him. Because there is reward for good works, there is punishment for evil as well. They are more or less two sides of the same coin or reality. In this, I have answered the reality of hell. Next, I'll deal with why it is consistent with God's omnipotence. I have said it elsewhere, God, Jesus Christ cannot be worshipped by fear. His command is that we love Him with every fibre of our being. And, I think that you must have learned from life, that love is not obligatory. You cannot start loving someone because you think you should, much less because the person commanded you to love them. The only Being for Whom Love is not a response is God Himself Who loves because that is Who He is. For every other being, love is a response we make to someone we appreciate on certain levels. We love because. We do not just love. So, if God commands us to love Him, He is actually saying that we should let His Love into our lives so that we can love Him back with the same Love. We have a choice to do that or to not do so. When we hear of hell in the Bible, that is, the hell that is punishment for sin, it's always as an accompaniment for heaven. In other words, it speaks of God's Justice and Fairness. God cannot be worshipped except in Love. This was why the prayer I made before I met the Lord Jesus five and a half years ago included that if God wouldn't save me by Himself, He should leave me alone and never again bother me with what was wrong and what was right. I really at that point couldn't care about hell. I wanted to be able to love God. If I couldn't love Him, I couldn't worry about hell. Now, in my previous response on the matter, I indicated that it is not God's desire that anyone go to hell. If everybody were to accept God's Offer of His Love, the only people who will be in hell are Satan and his angels. In fact, He said the place was prepared for them not humans. As to the fact that the majority of humans will be in hell, you seem to be overlooking the multitude that no man can count who are in heaven in Revelations. Believe me, children of God are not in the minority. God will get and is getting His Righteous Way with a lot more people than you think possible. Next, let me assure you that there will be noone who ends up in hell by accident. There'll be nobody who did not at some point in their lives come face to face with the reality of Christ that will be in hell, or heaven for that matter. The Muslims you speak of are both hearing and will hear the Gospel. In addition, the Spirit of God is witnessing to the Gospel as it goes forth, confirming it to the heart of the hearers (that's why you read things like "they were cut to the heart" in the Bible). The reason anyone goes to hell is that they themselves rejected heaven. God knew beforehand that some would reject heaven and He went ahead to create? Yes, because that is what Love does. Love is hopeful. And those who would choose to share His Vast Wealth were worth the heartache of losing the others. Love must share, with one or with everyone. And Love accepts rejection. 1 Like |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Delafruita(m): 10:19am On Aug 22, 2012 |
what exactly is a "true christian"?a person is either a christian or he isnt a christian.a christian is one who follows the myth of christ as espoused by the bible and then takes it upon himself to indoctrinate others into his line of reasoning by threatening them with a fiery fire that will burn forever.some "christians" have even visited this fire and all have different accounts of who they saw,the procedure they followed and their tour guide. christians are followers of the christ of the bible and are not necessarily adherrents of the laws of yahweh which is why some have decided to worship jesus as god. one unfortunate thing about a christian is his inability to fully understand christianity.for example,a careful study of the gospel according to mark describes jesus as been a man.there is no mention of virgin birth and there is extra-ordinary feature attached to the man except for mark16:9-20 where he describes an ascension.however,these verses have been proven to be an interpolation and have subsequently been removed by some bible translators. luke decides to ascribe the status of a demi-god on jesus and if luke's accounts in acts of apostles are to be considered,there is a penchant for exaggerating things as evidenced in his account of paul's conversion on the road to damascus. john then decides that been a man and been a demi-god are too demeaning.he calls jesus god.this shouldnt be suprising since john's account contradict the three others on many accounts. mattew on the other hand is a good writer of fiction.only he narrates herod killing all children below 2 years of age.only he claims that an earthquake occured after crucifixion and that the dead came to the surface of the earth. then we come to monsieur paul.its suprising that the man accorded the title of father of christianity never recorded the virgin birth.infact,he never talked about a single miracle performed by jesus.he never mentioned the sermon on the mount(which is regarded as jesus most important message).he never mentioned the teachings of jesus.he never met jesus,never sighted him and never recorded his deeds. therefore in my opinion,a "true christian" is a person who has willingly submittted himself to the idea of a christ that apparently never lived and is a creation of men 1 Like |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 10:57am On Aug 22, 2012 |
cyrexx: on my sixth question, I actually think not. I have read the Bible. And I recently started again from the Beginning. Yahweh's character reminds me powerfully of Jesus as Jesus's reminds me of Him. Take, for instance, Jesus's promise to bring judgment at His Coming Again. It reminds me of the Flood. The fact that He's taking so much time to come back reminds me of the time Yahweh gave between Adam's failure and the Flood. Accepting the possibility that there are missing names in the genealogy of Seth's line, there is a whole period of 1650 years, based on the ages of the available names on the list, between Adam's expulsion from the Garden and the Flood. If it's only one name that is missing from that list, it could increase the period to over two thousand years. So, Yahweh's long-suffering reminds me of Jesus's current delay in returning. Another instance is Yahweh's warnings of punishment for failure and entreaties for repentance. Jesus is full of that. I guess one of the more troubling is how Yahweh could command the destruction of an entire people, men, women and children without pity. But isn't that why people have trouble with the concept of hell? The passage I gave you in Revelations says that the eternal torment of the unbelievers will be in the Presence of the Lamb. If Yahweh can be accused of cruelty, so can Jesus. Now you point out how gentle and forbearing Jesus is. And you apparently do not think that Yahweh is the same. Consider the story of Nineveh. Yahweh sent a warning through Jonah to them. Jonah refused to go. Do you remember why? I ask because you intimated that you have read the Bible through. Jonah refused to go because he said God would embarrass him with His Great Mercy, that God would forgive them swiftly if they repented. Yahweh did not leave him alone until he got to Nineveh and delivered the warning. The people repented and Yahweh forgave them. That pissed Jonah off and he sulked. I'll leave Jonah's story for a bit and deal with Nineveh. It would not be right to say that Jonah was the only prophet God sent to Nineveh. They went into grave iniquity again and God sent Nahum to them. This time they didn't repent and He destroyed them. This is Jesus's story as well. The difference is that with Jesus, it is no longer separate lands. It is the whole world. Though kingdoms have risen and fallen under Him. Ultimately, He will come and destroy the disobedient, every last one indeed. Jesus is the very Person of God. That is the meaning of "in Him dwelt all the fullness of the Godhead bodily". That Man Jesus is what Yahweh is as a human being. Their moral character is the same. Need I remind you of His escapade in the temple at Jerusalem? Or His harsh words to the Sanhedrin? He's slow to anger, quick to have mercy. But His Judgment surely comes and there's no escaping it. Neither Yahweh nor Jesus cares for the death of the wicked. But the unvarying principle is that the wicked will be destroyed. To prevent this, they both call and call and call again that the wicked repent so that they will not die. If the wicked will not, destruction is sure. 1 Like |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 11:34am On Aug 22, 2012 |
@ Ihedinobi, thanks for your posts, it took me some time to read everything and digest it. BUT have you heard of what is called "Outsiders Test of Faith"? have you imagined what christianity look like to an outsider? have you ever objectively looked at other religions as an insider? imagine this scenario: how will you verify the truth/falsity of this claim of another person from another religion who came to preach to you and say his own God is the only true God and the God (Yahweh) you had been worshipping is an idol according to his own holy book. and he didn't stop there but goes on to say if you dont believe him, you will spend billions and billions of years burning in the lake of fire with no hope of getting out for the singular crime of not believing what his own loving God says in His holy book, which is tantamount to rejecting him? note that the only "proof" this person makes is in the afterlife, no way to test and verify in this life. how can you prove this other person's claims to be the truth or falsity, according to your beliefs. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by truthislight: 12:12pm On Aug 22, 2012 |
D P |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by truthislight: 12:12pm On Aug 22, 2012 |
Delafruita: what exactly is a "true christian"?a person is either a christian or he isnt a christian.a christian is one who follows the myth of christ as espoused by the bible and then takes it upon himself to indoctrinate others into his line of reasoning by threatening them with a fiery fire that will burn forever.some "christians" have even visited this fire and all have different accounts of who they saw,the procedure they followed and their tour guide. hey guy, you have been missing in action, welcome back. There is this thread that is dwelling on muhamad wish you were around to give ur input. One saying that muhamad is a womaniser has been moved to the islam section by the Mod. It contain some seriouse info. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Delafruita(m): 12:26pm On Aug 22, 2012 |
Ihedinobi:in today's parlance,the yahweh and jesus you described would be diagnosed with multiple personality disorder.you claim to be on another bible-reading round so i'd advise you pay more attention to why jonah allegedly didnt go to nineveh when yahweh sent him.secondly,the story of jonah in the belly of a fish is so hilarious it makes me shit my pants with laughter.sorta reminds me of when pinochio was swallowed by a fish. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Delafruita(m): 12:30pm On Aug 22, 2012 |
truthislight:been quite busy with business. as for muhammad been a womaniser,indeed he was and not only was he,he always "received revelation" to justify his interest in women and little girls.there is record of about 10-11 women been his wives including a 9year old girl.he was much older that 3 of his fathers-in-law and it is said that his libido was "strenghtened by allah". |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 12:31pm On Aug 22, 2012 |
cyrexx: @ Ihedinobi, Well, the first thing I have to say is that we'll have to split the two definitions of Christianity to answer your question. Christianity is generally thought of as a religion. That's one definition for it: that body of beliefs and practices built around the Bible or around a special guy or deity called Jesus Christ. The second definition is that Christianity is simply Christ or, if you understand it better this way, the revelation or unveiling of the Lord Jesus Christ. Much of the difficulty that you have posed about Christianity come from an acceptance of the first definition as Christianity. I have been in the religion called Christianity and I was guilty of partiality such that I did not know to perform any outsider's test of faith. And while in it, I couldn't defend it to anyone or prove to someone of another faith that the Christian God is the true God. Why? Because I didn't know Him. I just had a bunch of apparently conflicting facts about Him but since I was afraid of going to the Christian hell, I just turned a blind eye and declared no conflict or cooked up laughable explanations for the apparent contradictions. While I was in the religion called Christianity, I was outside the relationship called Christianity. And in fact, knew nothing about the latter. After I was brought into that family relationship where God's closely-guarded secret, Jesus Christ Himself, was unveiled in me, I could finally look at the Christian religion through the eyes of an outsider. And yes, it fails woefully the outsider's test of faith. Another really exciting thing is that in this new relationship, I can appreciate and prove systems of beliefs as to their validity. And I can make a logical answer for the Reality of Christ. Why? Because I could never know Christ without proving Him. As I have constantly proved Him in my life, I have come to know that He has a definite character and what that character is. Therefore, when I speak to one who demands proof (and I can never understand people who do not seek to understand and make sense of God's Secret, but insist that their confidence rests upon It), I can submit my faith and confidence in Christ to all tests they conceive. I will also willingly guide them in the correct tests to execute to prove Christ for themselves. Everything about Christ is very proveable. Christ can never be taken blindly. He's all of the Wealth of the Godhead and God will not give Him unless the seeking heart appreciates what it is that He is being given even if all the appreciation is that whatever this thing is, it's no mean thing, it must be God Himself. He's a Secret that God is hungry to unveil to everyone. So, there are indeed invitations to prove for oneself that Christ is a substantial Reality and the Preeminent Reality too. Again, dear Cyrexx, Christ cannot be had by fear. Fear of hell and the wrath to come never drives anyone to Christ. It only results in creating of protective of devices, whether religions or philosophies to escape its reality. It is a dissatisfaction with oneself that starts the person seeking more. It is an inability to settle for less than what God has offered and one has tasted that brings one into the Family. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by cyrexx: 5:37am On Aug 23, 2012 |
musKeeto: @cyrexx: on my mobile now, try this link thanxx a lot. i've downloaded it and i've started listening. O my, its more than 5 hrs long... |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 10:07am On Nov 13, 2013 |
cyrexx: I have had some discussions/debates with some christians and they are of the opinion that atheists and muslims do not have a correct understanding of what christianity stands for. Maybe what atheists know of christianity is not what true christianity is. So i need some mature christians to provide serious answers to these following questions, as i am a serious seeker here. But i wont let go of my REASON AND LOGIC, so i may question what doesn't make sense to me instead of accepting it hookline and sinker. |
| Re: What Is True Christianity: Calling Serious Christians In The House. by Nobody: 11:32pm On Dec 13, 2013 |
Good times. |
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