Isn't it hard to believe that such an important teaching as eternal torment has no clear verses stating this fate in the Old Testament? Virtually every important doctrine has its roots in the Old Testament and is taught in typology (or symbols) there. Where is this taught in symbols? Was the lamb of Exodus tortured forever? Were any of the sacrifices tortured forever? No, the sacrifices were eventually turned to ashes. "And they shall take away the ashes from the altar" (Numbers 4:13) If this was the fate of all the offerings (including the sin offerings), then why should the fate of the sinner be any different?

It would be unreasonable that God would give them such detail of what would happen to Israel (Deut 28:15) in this lifetime and then say nothing of the eternal torment facing them. And if it be as important as it is supposed to be now, it was equally important then. Yet no single indication of it is discoverable in the writings of Moses. How could God have warned Israel in detail about punishments in this life, droughts, plagues, and other punishments and not say one word about most important issue, eternal torment?

The New Testament writers used the Old Testament types to show how the destruction of sinners in the hands of an angry God happens. It was turning them into ashes, not tormenting them for long periods of time. Sodom and Gomorrah are a supreme type given by Peter and he says "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrha into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample...." (2 Peter 2:6) Notice, Peter says two things about the fate of the ungodly... 1) They are an example for us to see what awaits the ungodly 2) They eventually became ashes – cremated! (see also Malachi 4:3)

William West states this more of these thoughts most forcefully....

ADAM: God told Adam in the day he ate he would die. He was not told that after his death he would be
subjected to endless torment…,

CAIN: His sin was the first murder, which, by most, is believed to be the greatest of all sins.
What was his punishment? ..... his punishment was that he was to be a fugitive and
a vagabond in his lifetime on the earth. Not one word about any punishment after his death.
The punishment for anyone who killed Cain would be SEVEN TIMES GREATER than the
punishment of Cain. How could anything be seven times greater than [eternal torture]?

THE DESTRUCTION OF SODOM AND GOMORRAH: Genesis 13 and 14: These cities
were literally burnt up [Psalms 11:6; Isaiah 34:9], not still burning with the people walking
around in torment.. Peter states that they are an example (2 Peter 2:6) of what will happen to the unsaved.

ALL THE CURSES of the Law, if they did not keep it, were in this lifetime [Deuteronomy
28:18-19]. NOT ONE WORD WAS SAID ABOUT A CURSE AFTER THIS LIFETIME.

It would be past comprehension that God would give them such detail of what would happen to them in
this lifetime and say nothing of the unending pain He was going to forever heap on them….
(The Resurrection and Immortality, William West, Xulon Press, 2006, various excerpts from chapter seven – A strange and unexplainable silence. See www.robertwr.com for more information.)


Again, the same thing is said in another evangelical commentary:

There is no doctrine of hell [i.e. eternal torment] in the Old Testament. In Isaiah 66:24, at one time a much quoted verse, the reference is not to the continuing personality (nephesh) of the rebels, but to their corpses. (The International Bible Commentary, second edition, Grand Rapids, MI, Zondervan Publishing House, 1986, p.64 column 1)


If eternal torment is the fate of most of mankind, then why is no single indication of it is discoverable in the writings of Moses? If there was such a thing as eternal torment taught in the Tenach (Old Testament), then how could the Apostle Paul proclaim to the unsaved idol worshippers in Athens, "In the past God overlooked such ignorance…" (Acts 17:30). How could this statement be true if God was planning to torture them eternally? Did God really overlook this then? Paul said the wicked would be destroyed, "Whose end is destruction" (Philippians 3:19) not eternally tormented. Moses said nothing of eternal torture. Jesus said the human soul would be destroyed – not preserved (Matthew 10:28).

Abeg tell them ooo......

How can persons who committed finite sins be purnished infinitely??

Frosbel, I'm afraid to say that things are degenerating for you. What is the next doctrine that you will throw out? And for what reason really?

I will get back to you on this, if the Lord permits. For now, I have cause for sadness.

Ihedinobi: Frosbel, I'm afraid to say that things are degenerating for you. What is the next doctrine that you will throw out? And for what reason really?

I will get back to you on this, if the Lord permits. For now, I have cause for sadness.

Things are degenerating for me


Okay , tell me why.

ijawkid: Abeg tell them ooo......

How can persons who committed finite sins be purnished infinitely??

It all has to do with tradition.

People have been programmed by thousands of years of false teaching , most of which started from the catholic church and found their way into protestantism.

Many churches today hold onto false doctrines such as :

1. Tithes
2. Rapture
3. Eternal torment
4. Israel as a chosen nation physically


When you think for yourself and research scripture to reveal the truth, they call you a heretic.

Ihedinobi: Frosbel, I'm afraid to say that things are degenerating for you. What is the next doctrine that you will throw out? And for what reason really?

I will get back to you on this, if the Lord permits. For now, I have cause for sadness.

pls do i will be waiting for you.

frosbel:


It all has to do with tradition.

People have been programmed by thousands of years of false teaching , most of which started from the catholic church and found their way into protestantism.

Many churches today hold onto false doctrines such as :

1. Tithes
2. Rapture
3. Eternal torment
4. Israel as a chosen nation physically


When you think for yourself and research scripture to reveal the truth, they call you a heretic.

My bro I tell u......these are doctrines d apostles never taught......

It really does have to do with tradition......

Frosbel i pity u. Wait until you cross over to eternity and discorver how wrong you are then it will be too late for you. Indeed the false prophets are manifesting. God's people beware!!!

alexleo: Frosbel i pity u. Wait until you cross over to eternity and discorver how wrong you are then it will be too late for you. Indeed the false prophets are manifesting. God's people beware!!!

I am sorry you are deceived.

Why have you not quoted one scripture to make your point.

Jesus Christ said he that does not believe will Perish. Let us define what the word Perish means.

per·ish/ˈperiSH/
Verb:
Suffer death, typically in a violent, sudden, or untimely way.

Many of us have been unknowingly parroting catholic false doctrines for hundreds of years .

The bible also says that the Soul that sins shall DIE. What does DIE mean to you ? Live forever ?

"Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy [/b]both soul and body in hell." - [b]Matthew 10:28

Let me ask you another simple question, what does the word Destroy mean ?

Does destroy mean eternal torment ?

It is so sad to see my fellow Christians abandon the bible in favour man made doctrines and tradition.

alexleo: Frosbel i pity u. Wait until you cross over to eternity and discorver how wrong you are then it will be too late for you. Indeed the false prophets are manifesting. God's people beware!!!

imagine!

Dont you know it is knowing the truth that leads to eternal life? 1tImoh 2:3,4

if you want to help Frosbel that i think is even doing better, why not from the bible proof him wrong?

You are seeing a man that is setting himself free and you want to drag him back to exploitation and threat.

You better join him and search the bible.

truthislight:

pls do i will be waiting for you.

How hungry you are for a fight with me. Didn't I already tell you that I won't give you one? Get on with your life, dude, and forget a little about me.

Ihedinobi:

How hungry you are for a fight with me. Didn't I already tell you that I won't give you one? Get on with your life, dude, and forget a little about me.

Of course, you will not quote scripture since it is a sign of pride.

So tell me young fellow, why do you believe Hell is eternal torment ?

There are numerous scriptures that seem to clearly indicate that there is no eternal life for the wicked (not even in Hell). Here are quite a few that I found from the PC Study Bible after doing a search for the words "eternal life" in the concordance. These references are in Biblical order, and each is from the New American Standard Bible (Updated Edition) unless otherwise stated.

Matt 19:16—"And someone came to Him and said, 'Teacher, what good thing shall I do that I may obtain eternal life?'"

This man spoke of obtaining eternal life. It wasn't as if he already possessed it. Preachers today would probably say to him "Son, you already have eternal life; it's just a matter of where you will spend it." But Jesus never said that.

Matt 19:29-30—"And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or children or farms for My name's sake, will receive many times as much, and will inherit eternal life."

They will inherit eternal life. This indicates that not everyone has it already.

Matt 25:46—"These will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."

This verse admittedly uses the phrase "eternal punishment," but it is juxtaposed against the phrase "eternal life." Death by annihilation in the Lake of Fire could certainly be called "eternal punishment" because it is eternal in its consequences. Death on earth is only temporal because everyone will be raised again at the resurrection. Death in the Lake of Fire, however, is eternal: there is no reversing it and no coming back from it. If Jesus meant for the punishment to last eternally, he probably wouldn't have contrasted it with the phrase "eternal life" which is clearly meant only for believers. If Jesus had intended what most churches believe he did with this verse, he should have said, "Both the righteous and the unrighteous will go away to eternal life, but the unrighteous will spend it being tortured while the righteous spend theirs in paradise."

John 3:16—"For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life."

This is the most quoted verse in the Bible and also one of the clearest accounts on the annihilation of the wicked. "...Whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life." John didn't write that "...whoever believes in Him shall not have everlasting life in torment, but rather have everlasting life in Heaven." The way most churches interpret this, they mentally replace the very clear word "perish" with something that means nearly the opposite: "never perish."

John 3:36—"He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."

John 4:14—"...but whoever drinks of the water that I will give him shall never thirst; but the water that I will give him will become in him a well of water springing up to eternal life."

John 5:24—"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life."

Once again, the words "eternal life" and "life" are associated strictly with the righteous. The word "death" is reserved for the unrighteous, who will not go to Heaven. It takes a good bit of theological gymnastics to continually reinterpret these divinely inspired Words of God to mean the exact opposite of their natural meanings. Since when does "death" mean "eternal life away from God"? If John intended to say that, he should have used almost any other word instead of "death."

John 6:40—"For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:47—"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life."

John 6:54—"He who eats My flesh and drinks My blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day."

John 6:68—"and Simon Peter answered Him, 'Lord, to whom shall we go? You have words of eternal life.'"

John 10:28—"and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand."

Rom 5:21—"so that, as sin reigned in death, even so grace would reign through righteousness to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord."

Rom 6:23—"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord."

This is another very popular verse which is quite clear in its teaching. "The wages of sin is death (not eternal life in torture), but the gift of God is eternal life..."

Gal 6:8—"For the one who sows to his own flesh will from the flesh reap corruption, but the one who sows to the Spirit will from the Spirit reap eternal life."

Once again, "eternal life" is from the Spirit and "corruption" is reaped from the flesh.

Titus 3:7—"so that being justified by His grace we would be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life."

1 John 3:15—"Everyone who hates his brother is a murderer; and you know that no murderer has eternal life abiding in him."

No murderer has eternal life abiding in him. Most Christians claim that all people, saved and unsaved, have eternal life abiding in them, but this is certainly not what the scriptures teach.

1 John 5:11—"And the testimony is this, that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son."

Eternal life is only in God's son. The unrighteous do not have the gift of eternal life.

All of the above scriptures were reached in a search for the words "eternal life" in the PC Study Bible. The search actually returned 42 occurrences of the phrase in the NASU version of the Bible. I did not incorporate every single verse because many were essentially repeats of verses I did include (for instance, some of the Gospels record virtually the same teachings of Jesus) and a few others were slightly less clear. However, in the entire Bible, there is not a single verse that records anything to the affect that "everyone has eternal life; it's only a matter of where each will spend it." Yet this is what most of the church today believes.

The same can be said of words like "immortality." This word appears five times in the Bible, and in each one, it is said only of God or of the righteous.

Rom 2:6-7—"[God] will render to each person according to his deeds: to those who by perseverance in doing good seek for glory and honor and immortality, eternal life..."

1 Cor 15:53—"For this perishable must put on the imperishable, and this mortal must put on immortality."

1 Tim 6:15-16—"He who is the blessed and only Sovereign, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone possesses immortality..."

Source

Ihedinobi:

How hungry you are for a fight with me. Didn't I already tell you that I won't give you one? Get on with your life, dude, and forget a little about me.

guy,

you know i dont have any personal interest here than wishing that the bible should be followed.

@Frosbel

that is how God's word the bible is, when you get a teaching right it will agree with the rest of the scriptures.

You are doing well for yourself.

Peace

truthislight:

guy,

you know i dont have any personal interest here than wishing that the bible should be followed.

@the bolded: uh huh. Right. That's why you appear to be spoiling for a fight with me on every thread you find me, mm? Yeah, I'm probably deluded.

@Frosbel,

You got this message spot on. I have posted this same message on facebook and virtually all friends of mine who commented,kicked against it.

I am even flabbergasted that some Christian folks would point to the Parable between Lazarus and the rich man, to illustrate their points!

The truth remains that everlasting hell fire does not mean forever as it is depicted in english. Church traditions have not helped us either not to forget some (mis)translations in the Bible.One of my favorite sites is www.bible.cc,this site gives you varieties of translations with commentaries as well.

If anyone doubts the meaning of everlasting,please check out the meaing of 'AIONS' in greek.

I fully support this doctrine,though its hard to accept but I see this as the truth.

God bless us!

Ihedinobi:

How hungry you are for a fight with me. Didn't I already tell you that I won't give you one? Get on with your life, dude, and forget a little about me.

Ihe my man wad up....what's cooking??...

How u doing??.....

nedostic: @Frosbel,

You got this message spot on. I have posted this same message on facebook and virtually all friends of mine who commented,kicked against it.

I am even flabbergasted that some Christian folks would point to the Parable between Lazarus and the rich man, to illustrate their points!

The truth remains that everlasting hell fire does not mean forever as it is depicted in english. Church traditions have not helped us either not to forget some (mis)translations in the Bible.One of my favorite sites is www.bible.cc,this site gives you varieties of translations with commentaries as well.

If anyone doubts the meaning of everlasting,please check out the meaing of 'AIONS' in greek.

I fully support this doctrine,though its hard to accept but I see this as the truth.

God bless us!

Thanks.

Also you have to ask eternal torture adherents what the purpose of an eternal hell is ? Is it for punishment or torture ?

When I was in deeperlife many years ago , there is this tract that talks about eternity . It goes like this :

If, again, a grain of sand represents one day, all the grains of sand on the seashore will represent only a small, negligible part of eternity! If a bird went to sharpen its beak once a year at a mountain, when the bird wears out the mountain in this way, only an insignificant part of eternity would have passed. In short, eternity is the lifetime of the never-dying God! And you will live for eternity. You will be alive eternally as God will be alive eternally.

Now this is mind boggling. While it is good news for the saint. God has promised them eternal life and they will live for ever.

However, notice the following contradiction in the same tract.

Every sinner will end up in the infernal hell and every saint will end up in supernal heaven. You will live forever in heaven or hell.

Contrary to the comment that you will live forever in hell, the bible does not support this because the soul that sinneth shall die [/b]not [b]live [/b]forever anywhere for that matter !

In fact this shows the mercy of God, because if Adam had taken of the tree of life he would have lived forever , eternally separated from God. God in his infinite mercy sent Adam away from the garden to prevent this from happening. Oh the rich mercy of God.

We are all mortal and if we sin we will die, we will not live forever.

The fallacy that after zillions of years when poor wretched sinners would have suffered torment , come to plead with God for mercy and he declines their plea is just not in the bible.

The bible says God's anger lasts but a moment while his mercy endures forever. This Catholic doctrine of eternal torture demeans the character of God.

"For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning." - [b]Psalm 30:5

Unlike the God of the Muslims and Catholics , our GOD is not a Hitler or some mean person who enjoys the misery of others.


I am not trying to negate the punishment of sinners, it will indeed be painful and final :

1. Punishment according to their deeds
2. Total destruction.
3. Will not be partakers of God's immortality
4. Will not inherit the new heaven and earth.

I mean common is this not punishment enough

The adherents of eternal torment must ignore hundreds of scripture that go against their false doctrine.

Sinners will not be granted the pleasure of eternal life and also will be refused entry into God's paradise. They will be consumed by the fire of God for God is a consuming fire.

But rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the LORD shall be consumed.! - Isaiah 1:28

God is not offering us the free gift of salvation with a gun pressed to our heads.

Sounds more like Islam or Catholicism both religions of coercion where you either have a sword/gun to your head to join the faith or you are threatened with a hell of horrific descriptions.

Thank God we serve Yahweh the God of LOVE.

Please, commenters that agree with the op, could you explain to us how the following passage agrees with the conclusion that there is no everlasting torment? Many thanks. The passage is Daniel 12:2. I'm quoting it below from four translations, the Amplified Bible (AMP) in red, the New International Version (NIV) in blue, the New Living Translation (NLT) in purple and the King James Version (KJV) in green in that order.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt and abhorrence.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

Ihedinobi: Please, commenters that agree with the op, could you explain to us how the following passage agrees with the conclusion that there is no everlasting torment? Many thanks. The passage is Daniel 12:2. I'm quoting it below from four translations, the Amplified Bible (AMP) in red, the New International Version (NIV) in blue, the New Living Translation (NLT) in purple and the King James Version (KJV) in green in that order.

And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt and abhorrence.

Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.

Many of those whose bodies lie dead and buried will rise up, some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting disgrace.


And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.

last·ing/ˈlastiNG/
Adjective:
Enduring or able to endure over a long period of time: "they left a lasting impression".

Everlasting means lasting forever.

In other words, the punishment is everlasting , it is not an irreversible punishment, it is a punishment with a finality to it .

This is punishment of a lasting nature, they shall go into perdition. Perdition means destruction which an everlasting punishment

"But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." -

So 2 choices.

1. Be saved and receive eternal life

2. Reject salvation and you will be punished eternally with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

ijawkid: Abeg tell them ooo......

How can persons who committed finite sins be purnished infinitely??

sorry friend, but the gravity of a sin is also measure by whom is offended. When i beat up a guy in my street called ijawkid, he could sue me for assault and battery, when i throw stones or beatup GBJ, im charge with teason. If someone takes from his neighbor he is charged for stealing when you steal the coat of arms in d national assembly (i have forgotten it name) you would also face charges of teasons, mind you the jail terms arent the same. When i offend the wicked old man in my village many may say to the old man "serves u right" if i play the same prank with my parents, everyone would say to me "you are a disrespectful spoilt child". But when i offend one who is infinite goodness, love, mercy etc my sin is no longer finite, by the fact that i offended infinite goodnes and infinite justice, my sins becomes infinite and so my punishment. So my friend it would be stupid to call a willful sin finite.

frosbel:

Thanks.

Also you have to ask eternal torture adherents what the purpose of an eternal hell is ? Is it for punishment or torture ?

When I was in deeperlife many years ago , there is this tract that talks about eternity . It goes like this :

If, again, a grain of sand represents one day, all the grains of sand on the seashore will represent only a small, negligible part of eternity! If a bird went to sharpen its beak once a year at a mountain, when the bird wears out the mountain in this way, only an insignificant part of eternity would have passed. In short, eternity is the lifetime of the never-dying God! And you will live for eternity. You will be alive eternally as God will be alive eternally.

Now this is mind boggling. While it is good news for the saint. God has promised them eternal life and they will live for ever.

However, notice the following contradiction in the same tract.

Every sinner will end up in the infernal hell and every saint will end up in supernal heaven. You will live forever in heaven or hell.

Contrary to the comment that you will live forever in hell, the bible does not support this because the soul that sinneth shall die [/b]not [b]live [/b]forever anywhere for that matter !

In fact this shows the mercy of God, because if Adam had taken of the tree of life he would have lived forever , eternally separated from God. God in his infinite mercy sent Adam away from the garden to prevent this from happening. Oh the rich mercy of God.

We are all mortal and if we sin we will die, we will not live forever.

The fallacy that after zillions of years when poor wretched sinners would have suffered torment , come to plead with God for mercy and he declines their plea is just not in the bible.

The bible says God's anger lasts but a moment while his mercy endures forever. This Catholic doctrine of eternal torture demeans the character of God.

"For his anger lasts only a moment, but his favor lasts a lifetime; weeping may remain for a night, but rejoicing comes in the morning." - [b]Psalm 30:5

Unlike the God of the Muslims and Catholics , our GOD is not a Hitler or some mean person who enjoys the misery of others.


I am not trying to negate the punishment of sinners, it will indeed be painful and final :

1. Punishment according to their deeds
2. Total destruction.
3. Will not be partakers of God's immortality
4. Will not inherit the new heaven and earth.

I mean common is this not punishment enough

The adherents of eternal torment must ignore hundreds of scripture that go against their false doctrine.

Sinners will not be granted the pleasure of eternal life and also will be refused entry into God's paradise. They will be consumed by the fire of God for God is a consuming fire.

But rebels and sinners shall be broken together, and those who forsake the LORD shall be consumed.! - Isaiah 1:28

God is not offering us the free gift of salvation with a gun pressed to our heads.

Sounds more like Islam or Catholicism both religions of coercion where you either have a sword/gun to your head to join the faith or you are threatened with a hell of horrific descriptions.

Thank God we serve Yahweh the God of LOVE.

pls take note Yahweh is a God of love and also a God of Justice.
You seem to misunderstand when d bible say "d soul that sinneth shall die", this runs parallel to gen2 "if u eat of the tree you shall die die" but adam didnt die, did he?? He fact he lived longer than today man, he didnt literally die, this shows us that a different thing is mean when the bible is talking about 'death, die' in relation to eternity, that death simply mean a separation from God, the exact thing that happened to adam. The idea that God literally 'kills' the soul is not found in scripture. After the final judgement d gud go to everlasting life, the bad to everlasting contempt that is how my bible explains it.

frosbel:


last·ing/ˈlastiNG/
Adjective:
Enduring or able to endure over a long period of time: "they left a lasting impression".

Everlasting means lasting forever.

In other words, the punishment is everlasting , it is not an irreversible punishment, it is a punishment with a finality to it .

This is punishment of a lasting nature, they shall go into perdition. Perdition means destruction which an everlasting punishment

"But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who believe and are saved." -

So 2 choices.

1. Be saved and receive eternal life

2. Reject salvation and you will be punished eternally with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord.

"Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;" - 2 Thessalonians 1:9

lol @Frosbel. Dude, you too much, I no lie you. Ever-lasting now speaks of finality not lasting for ever. Awesome!

Make I laugh finish. I de come back <laughing my fingers into conf9tk.elitlxqt...> hehehehehe

Ihedinobi:

lol @Frosbel. Dude, you too much, I no lie you. Ever-lasting now speaks of finality not lasting for ever. Awesome!

Make I laugh finish. I de come back <laughing my fingers into conf9tk.elitlxqt...> hehehehehe

I suggest you humble yourself and search the scriptures.

Besides you have not addressed one single point raised, pride is not a virtue.

Everlasting means forever , I am not sure why this simply word confuses you.

frosbel:

Things are degenerating for me


Okay , tell me why.

Maybe he has seen what I've seen.. I told you once, didn't I?

Stop questioning and researching, its only a matter of time..

Ubenedictus: pls take note Yahweh is a God of love and also a God of Justice.
You seem to misunderstand when d bible say "d soul that sinneth shall die", this runs parallel to gen2 "if u eat of the tree you shall die die" but adam didnt die,

The sentence came after the judgement.

The Judgement :
you return to the ground, since from it you were taken; for dust you are and to dust you will return." - Genesis 3:19(b)

Fulfilment

"Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died." - Genesis 5:5

did he?? He fact he lived longer than today man, he didnt literally die,

Man was never meant to die when he was created, but when he sinned he died.

"Altogether, Adam lived 930 years, and then he died." - Genesis 5:5

this shows us that a different thing is mean when the bible is talking about 'death, die' in relation to eternity, that death simply mean a separation from God,

Wrong.

Death is of two kinds.

1. we can be dead in our sins, but we also die physically. To be dead in our sins means to be alienated from the life of God which is eternal life which in turn means living forever, something we do not have except we become born again. To be alienated from the life of God because of sin means that we will not only die physically but taste of the second death which simply means that we will not share the eternal life of GOD.

2. We all die physically. This was the first sentence upon man in the garden and it was fulfilled when Adam died.

the exact thing that happened to adam. The idea that God literally 'kills' the soul is not found in scripture. After the final judgement d gud go to everlasting life, the bad to everlasting contempt that is how my bible explains it.

"Don't be afraid of those who want to kill your body; they cannot touch your soul. Fear only God, who can destroy both soul and body in hell." - Matthew 10:28

The soul is not immortal , only God is immortal. Therefore the soul can die because God says it in the bible.

"For every living soul belongs to me, the father as well as the son--both alike belong to me. The soul who sins is the one who will die." - Ezekiel 18:4

Frosbel. What do you believe? Are you a Christain or a Gnostic? I want to know first before i contribute to the thread.

2mch: Frosbel. What do you believe? Are you a Christain or a Gnostic? I want to know first before i contribute to the thread.

I am a believer and follower of Christ Jesus.

frosbel:


It all has to do with tradition.

People have been programmed by thousands of years of false teaching , most of which started from the catholic church and found their way into protestantism.

Many churches today hold onto false doctrines such as :

1. Tithes
2. Rapture
3. Eternal torment
4. Israel as a chosen nation physically


When you think for yourself and research scripture to reveal the truth, they call you a heretic.

aha! You always seem to find a way to link everything you think is wrong with contemporary christianity to the catholic church. Well i little heads ups, next time you paste that list and and the catholic church remember to remove "rapture", that one is from calvin or on of his, he had the idea that before the anti christ came all the good christian would have left the earth and it would remain only the bad guys, escapism theology has no place in the catholic church.
I think you should also read more scriptures, there you would find out that israel was a chosen people. If i remember correctly paul discussed the subject in the book of romans.
As for tithe, that isnt a doctrine, it is a practice born out of the christian teaching of generosity. Besides the practice of tithing has been extinct in catholicism even before the 15th century, so my dear be careful when you link all sort of things to the catholic church

frosbel:


I am a believer and follower of Christ Jesus.

So you are a pentecostal, bent on disproving anything about the Catholic Church? The thing is, i actually believe evil people get immediate judgement. They go to hell straight when they die, pending God's coming. It obviously will feel like everlasting torture, because imagine the people that died 2,000 years ago and are in hell. . It will seem like forever. I actually do not believe they get the luxury of staying in the soil until God comes. These are the murderer's. the serial killers, the unrepentant evil and the very evil. This is their reward. But after the final judgement their souls are destroyed with other hell bounds. Surely if i believe this, i also believe in purgatory and believe the people worthy of a sit at God's table get to go to heaven right after they die. I am Catholic, but this is what i believe.

2mch:

So you are a pentecostal, bent on disproving anything about the Catholic Church? The thing is, i actually believe evil people get immediate judgement. They go to hell straight when they die, pending God's coming. It obviously will feel like everlasting torture, because imagine the people that died 2,000 years ago and are in hell. . It will seem like forever. I actually do not believe they get the luxury of staying in the soil until God comes. These are the murderer's. the serial killers, the unrepentant evil and the very evil. This is their reward. But after the final judgement their souls are destroyed. I am Catholic, but this is what i believe.

Fair enough.

Now quote the bible to validate your claims.