Congrats to those that got them.

What's this about? If I may ask

This is really wierd. I was thinking of starting a chat thread for you and then you post here. . . .

Well, what is 'here', fellis?

Hello.

Rocktation: Well, what is 'here', fellis?

I removed the recharge pins I posted this morning.

fellis:
I removed the recharge pins I posted this morning.

Oh? What were you celebrating? Your 1000th thread?

For us all? Ooooohhhh are we having some tea and cabin as well?

I nearly used those vouchers as well, can't remember what stopped me. If it's ten tries before the telco blocks you off, you should give clues as to what one digit is (just 2) then leave another digit completely empty, that way things remain interesting..

Like 326523635xy

X is either 3 or 7. Guess the last digit...

Avicenna: Hello.

hi. I read your reply on that thread.
I wanted to make these comments:
1. You were right, some people cannot live happy lives without reassurance that there will be an eternity where the good ones will be rewarded and the evil ones will get their deserved punishment. Maybe atheists should cool it a bit with the evangelism because of people like them.
2. A lot of people will cease to be moral without religion. Another reason why picking faults from religion is probably a bad idea.
3. Anything that defies logic is not necessarily wrong. It might be that the logical explanation has not yet been found.
(I know, there are 3 and not 2)

wiegraf: For us all? Ooooohhhh are we having some tea and cabin as well?

I nearly used those vouchers as well, can't remember what stopped me. If it's ten tries before the telco blocks you off, you should give clues as to what one digit is (just 2) then leave another digit completely empty, that way things remain interesting..

Like 326523635xy

X is either 3 or 7. Guess the last digit...

I know I could have done that.
If you make nine tries and still fail, then you give up.
I wanted to make it difficult.

Rocktation:

Oh? What were you celebrating? Your 1000th thread?

lol no.

fellis:
hi. I read your reply on that thread.
I wanted to make these comments:
1. You were right, some people cannot live happy lives without reassurance that there will be an eternity where the good ones will be rewarded and the evil ones will get their deserved punishment. Maybe atheists should cool it a bit with the evangelism because of people like them.
2. A lot of people will cease to be moral without religion. Another reason why picking faults from religion is probably a bad idea.
3. Anything that defies logic is not necessarily wrong. It might be that the logical explanation has not yet been found.
(I know, there are 3 and not 2)

These are tricky, there's probably no 'right' or 'wrong' solutions here imo.

1.I agree, but some would say that by people not accepting that someone 'bad' will be punished after death, they do not do enough in this world to correct said persons wrongs

2. Scary thought. Others would argue though that fear of hell etc (what's it called officially again?) Is just a placebo, the real problem still remains, people who think it's fine to be complete #insult. Eventually they might find a way to justify their abhorrent behavior, they might even use religion. Perhaps an unintended insidious effect

3. Very true

One and two, it might be that your approach is the most practical.

Personally though I am definitely not for evangelical atheism, or evangelical anything else for that matter. I doubt many atheists are as well. Especially if religion provides a spark in someone's life (and said person is harmless), it would be downright nefarious to try and take it way. Many atheists are just concerned with essentially humanistic issues.

Many others are just here for the banter, maybe some trolling

Are there nice things here, like tea? I've been good.

Also, what are we discussing here? Just how awesome we are? Bets on when I'll next comb my hair?

wiegraf:

These are tricky, there's probably no 'right' or 'wrong' solutions here imo.

1.I agree, but some would say that by people not accepting that someone 'bad' will be punished after death, they do not do enough in this world to correct said persons wrongs

2. Scary thought. Others would argue though that fear of hell etc (what's it called officially again?) Is just a placebo, the real problem still remains, people who think it's fine to be complete #insult. Eventually they might find a way to justify their abhorrent behavior, they might even use religion. Perhaps an unintended insidious effect

3. Very true

One and two, it might be that your approach is the most practical.

See? I am just too smart for you to find any flaw in my opinions.

wiegraf:
Are there nice things here, like tea? I've been good.

I'd have made some tea but I would have to get off my bed to do that so it isn't happening.

wiegraf:

Also, what are we discussing here? Just how awesome we are? Bets on when I'll next comb my hair?

I was thinking of bringing the convo here but I saw your mail sometime ago. . . . . I think it is better to stick to Yahoo.
And comb your hair already you lazy slob.

fellis:
hi. I read your reply on that thread.
I wanted to make these comments:
1. You were right, some people cannot live happy lives without reassurance that there will be an eternity where the good ones will be rewarded and the evil ones will get their deserved punishment. Maybe atheists should cool it a bit with the evangelism because of people like them.
2. A lot of people will cease to be moral without religion. Another reason why picking faults from religion is probably a bad idea.
3. Anything that defies logic is not necessarily wrong. It might be that the logical explanation has not yet been found.
(I know, there are 3 and not 2)

Anybody that can be convinced by the arguments here must be, to an extent, smart. Or even able to counter them.

I agree with what you said.

But, I don't think if a person like you becomes an atheist, you will be downright evil. Unless, you see evil to be fornication,crushing competition, not covering your hair and other MUNDANE things most religions abhor.

3- ah, fellis, I didn't mean that. That's why I said something about your premonitions. Just because we can't explain them, doesn't mean we won't be able to someday. That leaves space for validation. Most religions doesn't . They have a conclusion ready. Usually wrong.

Sometimes, I think why do I even argue? It doesn't affect anything on my own end. If all muslims were like you, if all christians were like my neighbours, I probably tone it down. I just want people to reason. To make this country a better place. If people realize this is our only life, I think they will want to squeeze out as much mileage as they can get. they will not ignore the pathetic poverty they find themselves.

Is that bad?

^^^^
That's too derp to take on for me. Some might actually not believe deep down, but want it to be true so bad they just do the close your ears and scream LALALALALALALA thing. Generally religion just keeps them going, else they'd lose hope and consider the task (life in general) to be too much for them to handle. Why trouble them, especially if I'm not sure I can provide an alternative for them. So complicate.....
Who am I to think I know what they think anyhoo.....

Is this the /b/ of NL? If you can answer that, you should feel bad for even knowing what /b/ is...
That said, let's take on, semi-randomly, the MBTI types of Hitler, Gandhi, Bin Laden, Tolstoy and Jesus.
Quite a list, imo all these were actually the same type, INFJ. Incidentally the rarest type. But wait you say, how could Hitler and Gandhi be the same type?
They were both motivated by similar things actually, the condition of their fellow man. It disturbed them greatly. One was an unbalanced individual, unbalanced any type can become an $insult, no type is free of that. But even balanced INFJ can get really pissed when s/he sees the human condition and believes people are not doing something to better their condition. Gandhi supposedly thought of us as being little more than apes after a stint in an SA prison for instance.

Anyways Hitler was really off the wire, and he redirected a lot of misplaced hate at various other groups he perceived as being the cause of the problems he perceived, rather irrationally. At his core he was very emotional (his speeches might have been practiced, but he really believed what he was saying). He wasn't in it to make some sort of material profit. Consider Bin Laden as well, why would a reasonably good looking guy, well mannered, educated?(not sure, but I suppose so), a bit cultured, rich, prospect of a reasonably good future in comfortable Saudi suddenly decide he should spend his life in Afghanistan and in other $hit holes (sorry Afghanistan) fighting the white devil? Well, he really believed his $hit. He felt a little too strongly about the issue, which is the condition of the downtrodden in that part of the world, that he couldn't just let it be. He blamed it on the USA, the rest is history...

I shall continue the ramble later.
I actually hate tea (you have to boil water and stuff, seriously just to drink something? Highly inefficient to me) but I'm gonna have me some juice, then quit procrastinating hopefully

Avicenna:
I agree with what you said.

But, I don't think if a person like you becomes an atheist, you will be downright evil. Unless, you see evil to be fornication,crushing competititon, not covering your hair and other MUNDANE things most religions abhor.

No.
My definition of evil would change and those mundane things would not be evil to me any longer. They would be perfectly acceptable. So maybe I would be evil afterall. Maybe I would not. But certainly less self-sacrificing.

Avicenna:
3- ah, fellis, I didn't mean that. That's why I said something about your premonitions. Just because we can't explain them, doesn't mean we won't be able to someday. That leaves space for validation. Most religions doesn't . They have a conclusion ready. Usually wrong.

I think it takes a lot of confidence to decide that even if the explanation for the premonitions has not been found, the religious position on their being a manifestation of the supernatural is not the correct one. A lot of confidence indeed. Especially when the risk of hell is there if religions turn out to be right.
I can't decide to disregard them as phenomena whose logical explanations have not yet been found, one reason being because I don't believe everything in the world can be logically explained. I don't believe in such absolutes.

Avicenna:
Sometimes, I think why do I even argue? It doesn't affect anything on my own end. If all muslims were like you, if all christians were like my neighbours, I probably tone it down. I just want people to reason. To make this country a better place.

Avicenna you should realize that not every one reasons the same way. Some people base their reasoning on emotions and some base their reasoning on the input or observations gotten from their environment. For people to have the ability to easily logically analyze things and abstract concepts which I assume is what you mean, they would have to be left brained and that is not something anyone decides whether they would be or not, you must be born like that. (for the record I think left or right brained, everyone has something of value to contribute to the world.) again, your definition of 'reason' is likely to be based on how you yourself reason. Not everyone can think like you or reason in the same way/the way you do, there would be those that are different. Just try to deal with it and stop letting it bother you so much.

Avicenna:
If people realize this is our only life, I think they will want to squeeze out as much mileage as they can get. they will not ignore the pathetic poverty they find themselves.

Is that bad?

I agree. Even if this isn't our only life, we ought to still do the best we can to make the most out of our existence. The belief that there is another better life waiting for us does not mean we should be careless or shoddy with the present life. Many people fail to understand this.

wiegraf:
That said, let's take on, semi-randomly, the MBTI types of Hitler, Gandhi, Bin Laden, Tolstoy and Jesus.
Quite a list, imo all these were actually the same type, INFJ. Incidentally the rarest type. But wait you say, how could Hitler and Gandhi be the same type?
They were both motivated by similar things actually, the condition of their fellow man. It disturbed them greatly. One was an unbalanced individual, unbalanced any type can become an $insult, no type is free of that. But even balanced INFJ can get really pissed when s/he sees the human condition and believes people are not doing something to better their condition. Gandhi supposedly thought of us as being little more than apes after a stint in an SA prison for instance.

Anyways Hitler was really off the wire, and he redirected a lot of misplaced hate at various other groups he perceived as being the cause of the problems he perceived, rather irrationally. At his core he was very emotional (his speeches might have been practiced, but he really believed what he was saying). He wasn't in it to make some sort of material profit. Consider Bin Laden as well, why would a reasonably good looking guy, well mannered, educated?(not sure, but I suppose so), a bit cultured, rich, prospect of a reasonably good future in comfortable Saudi suddenly decide he should spend his life in Afghanistan and in other $hit holes (sorry Afghanistan) fighting the white devil? Well, he really believed his $hit. He felt a little too strongly about the issue, which is the condition of the downtrodden in that part of the world, that he couldn't just let it be. He blamed it on the USA, the rest is history...

I am probably wrong but I think what you are trying to say is that each person's opinion of how to move the world forward would ultimately differ (and might even be destructive) even if the intentions are good.

wiegraf: ^^^^

I actually hate tea (you have to boil water and stuff, seriously just to drink something? Highly inefficient to me) but I'm gonna have me some juice, then quit procrastinating hopefully

I also hate tea. Can't remember the last time I drank that stuff.

fellis:
I am probably wrong but I think what you are trying to say is that each person's opinion of how to move the world forward would ultimately differ (and might even be destructive) even if the intentions are good.

I also hate tea. Can't remember the last time I drank that stuff.

I am saying that, among other things. We get to ze problem of intentions. Very tricky of course. I'm not even sure how to put it in words, but more often than not, people do not have bad intentions. Then again, that doesn't mean that just because their intentions were 'good' they get a free pass. But how to judge properly then? Take the death penalty, I believe that is some illogical stuff, mostly because very rarely would get someone who would rather be a murderer, or thief etc. For the most part, they didn't have a choice. In a sense, society has failed whenever a crime is committed. But all this is my leftist agenda, not too important.

I like this as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

Continuing ze ramble....
Their motivations were similar. The solutions arrived at to solve these problems? Obviously different. But the main point is INFJ's are driven to solve social issues rather strongly. They are often considered to be strongly emphatic, recognizing feelings in mr x which he himself was not aware of. One famous MBTI* dude says that if you want to know how happy the staff at a company are, ask an INFJ if there's any among them. I'll continue this ramble later...


*for my eager readers who begged incessantly for me to grace them with my omniscience, all maybe 0 of you, his name is Kieresy, he sort of moded MBTI, his system is simpler and highly regarded as well

wiegraf:

I am saying that, among other things. We get to ze problem of intentions. Very tricky of course. I'm not even sure how to put it in words, but more often than not, people do not have bad intentions. Then again, that doesn't mean that just because their intentions were 'good' they get a free pass. But how to judge properly then? Take the death penalty, I believe that is some illogical stuff, mostly because very rarely would get someone who would rather be a murderer, or thief etc. For the most part, they didn't have a choice. In a sense, society has failed whenever a crime is committed. But all this is my leftist agenda, not too important.

Got it. I was going to make a comment about the bolded but then I read the last sentence.

wiegraf:
I like this as well
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

Interesting. This is the first time I'm coming across that saying.

wiegraf:

*for my eager readers who begged incessantly for me to grace them with my omniscience, all maybe 0 of you, his name is Kieresy,

Lol.
I have to settle down to read and reply that mail so I might not be able to reply soon.

fellis:
Got it. I was going to make a comment about the bolded but then I read the last sentence.

Interesting. This is the first time I'm coming across that saying.


Lol.
I have to settle down to read and reply that mail so I might not be able to reply soon.

Eh, but I'm only rambling. I pick INFJ as the topic because I want to no so subtly implant the idea in @avi's head that he might be one. He certainly seems to feel strongly about these things. Not that we INTx don't, we obviously do, but our approaches are different. There seems to be raw emotion fueling him.

Now @avi, before you take my head off, remember Gandhi, Jesus (d legend as described, I know, he probably never existed or was like any of the stories say), Tolstoy, Jung himself, maybe Jefferson. All stand up dudes, paradigm shift progenitors even. With INTP and INFJ it's rather easy to mix the two. INFJ are usually regarded as the most disorganized Js actually. Perfectionist much is a problem for many INFJ, so they can come across as P'ish. For instance Jung and Jefferson may have been INTP, they certainly aren't clear cut INFJ. Young Toltsoy would easily be mistaken for INTP, as he grew older he showed undoubted INFJ.

Then again you also have Yahweh, Hitler and Bin laden

Oh yes, @fellis, I'm only rambling, pick on any aspect you want to discuss. You don't agree? You have reasonable arguments/comments? Don't hold out on me, feed me!

And obviously take your time on the response, there or here. This is just a semi-coherent ramble anyways, I'm not actually expecting replies.

Except maybe you fall for the trolls

@Wie.

I knew long ago hitler and Ghandi have some things in common. Ghandi recognised it sef. But I think I'm very far from both. I dunno. I don't wanna be like both anyway. One too extreme, the other, way too gentle. I like to be decisive.
Anyway, if that's what it will take...... I m going Ghandi

@fellis
Points Noted.

You are harmless. Your evils are not evil at all.
I'm sort of happy.

And what the hell are both of you talking about? You don't like tea Ginger, coffee nko?

I prefer tea sha as long as its made for me. Or in a place with hot water dispenser.

@fellis, it's like you have a worse case of INTP than I do... Do you usually have like 20 wiki pages open at once? And you think you have S in you? If I had my way I'd never sleep, really. Oddly, I usually accomplish little still

wiegraf: @fellis, it's like you have a worse case of INTP than I do... Do you usually have like 20 wiki pages open at once? And you think you have S in you? If I had my way I'd never sleep, really. Oddly, I usually accomplish little still

lol, its not wiki pages that are open right now.
I did sleep though, for sometime.