Politicians and Pastors are the Two Things Holding Nigeria Back!

The more I think about it the more I believe this is the case. People in Nigeria see the country's natural wealth being stolen and used by the corrupt politicians. Stunting progress and development. The thing that really amazes and baffles me is that whilst seeing this is going on they think that the answer to salvation (both on earth and beyond) is to go to a church and worship a pastor who is bleeding them dry of the little money that they have left.

Between them the two P's are taking most of the countries money and doing very very little with it!

When is Nigeria going to wake up and realise that they can't continue to be ripped off in this manner and get on with doing something constructive with their time / money. Praying for Miracle wealth is never going to get you rich. How many people does anyone actually KNOW who became miraculously wealthy (eg without a lot of hard work). No one I've met ever has!! that is of course except for quite a large number of Landcruiser driving, Italian suit wearing, Big Mansion building, private Jet Flying, No Sense talking - PASTORS!

It's time to stop being so Naive, if you want to worship a God then go ahead and do it, but please drop all of these Mega churches and God Like Pastors, Try and work it out for yourself, then you might see through the facade.

This is the first time, I've ever replied to anything here. Do you want to jnow why? It's because everything he has said here is true. 99.9% of politicians in Nigeria are crooks and of the men of God(less said about the name) they are well and truly catching up. You never hear them speak of salvation just getting rich

If I ever became President of Nigeria, I would shut down all the prosperity churches because they are vile and insincere. Religion should be about spirituality, ethics, love and living a good life. Any church that preaches miraculous wealth would be shut down instantly. False prophets prying on the poverty of people! People are living in poverty, yet so-called pastors are living in excessive opulence. What sort of religion is that? I see much of hypnotism and less of religion in it.

@Mongue
Spot on.
Like i've said before 'people have outsourced their life to God, unfortunately God doesn't do consultancy work'

Some times I believe that the pastors , imans are all in cahoots with the politicians. When it comes to election time(politicians) building fund(for their mansions) they all smile and use God's name anyhow ha let me not go there or I will say something bad

I hear your comment about shutting the churches down, but at the same time I'm not sure if that is the answer in the long run.

The solution must be to find a way to educate the masses that they can do something with their lives outside of church. Progress can be made through thinking and working hard and developing all the resources that are here.

I've often thought of what you could set up that like a church brings a lot of people together, harnesses their desire, energy and ability , but actually puts it to some kind of constructive use.

I know it's basic but if the churches really wanted to make a difference why can't they educate people to take more pride in their surroundings. Instead of having an extra hour of prayer get the whole congregation out on the street and clean up the crap. It's a small thing but a start.

It makes me mad and sad that Nigeria seems to willing to be conned in so many ways!

very true, but how likely is it going to happen. When there is money to be made. Remember politician/pastors leave their airconditioned homes, to their air conditioned cars to heir air conditioned offices, and when they are tired fly 1st class or in their privat jets. And the ones who don't have that aspire for that. The Nigerian dream,

@Mongue,
My brother, na true talk be dis. Gbam!
The poor masses just dey 'mumu' and the little which the politicians have left, the pastors are taking away from them.

Pally, thats a beautiful and handsome one, I think this should be published so that not only people on this forum will get this information. Abeg abeg abeg @ Seun (Isabele) make u complete this work by publishing it, i'm sure you gonna do that for us, TY.

BB1

na true talk be that

Thats the most truthful s***  I've heard any nigerian say, glad I don't live there anymore. F*** all u have to do is pray to God every morning and keep him close to the best of your ability, I don't need no f***ing Pastor, rich or otherwise telling me how to be closer to God, God is powerful enough to talk to me Himself, same goes for the damn Imams and muslims. Sometimes I hate religion, hell most of the time.

This is a good thread.

If I were President, or someone in a position of power I would lobby hard to ensure that churches/religious/moneyspinning groups paid tax.

Of course my argument would be biblical- Jesus is purported to have said that Caesar (the authorities) should be given his financial due. 

To be honest, the only way I can think of in which to decrease dependency on religious groups is to increase the level of trust in the state.

[color=#990000][/color]  na true talk be this o
i cant browse nowadays withpout comin o'er t nairaland
we get some truth speakers for this zone
which is luvly
p's and P's nothin different bout this folks anymore
everyone is hearing bout prosperity and plenty property
the usual message: we need money for the gospel

naija pastors haba!!!

This is a good thread.

If I were President, or someone in a position of power I would lobby hard to ensure that churches/religious/moneyspinning groups paid tax.

Of course my argument would be 'Biblical'- Jesus is purported to have said that 'Caeser' (the authorities) should be given his financial due.

To be honest, the only way I can think of in which to decrease dependency io religiuos groups is to increase the level of trust in the state.

yo E men word!!

lets be soft on how me abuse men of God in this forum. i don't know why as educated people ( am guessing we are all educated) we have to keep on sterotyping each time we post a comment. firstly most politician's in NIGERIA are very corrupt. "most" has covered up the fact that some are actually not corrupt. however am not for politician right now (don't really care about them either) so i'll leave that topic.  MONOGUE, how are nigerian's getting ripped off? its biblical to give money in the house of the Lord. whatever the pastor does with that money is between God and the pastor. off course when it is a fake pastor ripping people off  we have to say thats bad obviously, but its not wrong to give money in the House of the Lord regardless. Dont try and educate christians here, we read our bible often (i hope) and we know what it says about giving in the house of the Lord. has any christian complained to u that they are tired of giving? i give even when its my last dollar in church, and God has refused to dissappoint me, there are promises for giving and i've believed in them and God's promises have always manifested in my life. when money is finishing more is entering my hand, i have never lacked and i know its because i give enough in the house of the Lord. and by the way if u can't count many people that have become miraculously wealthy around u, come around me and i shall count for you. only if your saying lazy people never get miraculously wealthy, then i have to agree with u on that one. from what u wrote i know its your believe that pastors have to be poor. i know about being humble but i don't know about being poor, there is no where in the bible where it is written that men of God have to be poor. when u go to the house of the Lord no one forces u to give, if you don't want to and u have your own conviction about giving don't give, its between u and God not u and your pastor. if a man that where poor where to write a book on ways to get rich, would u read it?

MONOGUE, i know this is your own opinion but lets try and be a little less stereotypical here now, there are other things beside this two figures u've addressed on this post. sometimes we ourselves hold nigeria back. some go abroad and never want to return with knowlege acquired to build nigeria up. we now have yahoo yahoo boys/girls who damage the image of nigerians every where. even our police force is nothing to write home about with there bribery and corruption and sometimes some nigerians help them by even offering bribes to them. alot of other factors contribute in holding nigeria back, lets not try and blame it on the Pastors.

Ladi tell them

@ Baby4u2 u just proferred the same argument that is used to rip people off. We have all read the bible, at least some of us have. The way this pastors go on u'd think there weren't any luxurious things Jesus would have done in his time. He rode a donkey only once (in fufilment of a prophecy). The rest of the time the man was trekking everywhere. Paul was a tentmaker so he had a job not just living off people on account of his ministerial work. These pastors from the first to the last as far as i am concerned do not contribute anything to nigeria or to the lives of the people they are meant to be pastoring. All i have seen them do is take and take and take and when u can't give some of them will resort to cursing u sef. Abeg these 2Ps na dem dey kill us

@naijababe what are u trying say? the bible says he went from place to place not trekked from place to place, dont miss quote. the apostle's of christ that travelled from city to city, and countries to countries where they carpenters or tentmakers too? being a pastor is not small work this days with corrupt people u have to work more (just kidding). i didnt comfirm any of anyones stereotypism. u read ur own meaning into it. so what are u trying to say all pastors dont have other jobs? its not all pastors that are into full time pastorial services like my pastor. if they work now people will say "pastors are using church money for their own private business". what do we want them to do now? if there is anyway u are suffering personslly check urself, pastors are not killing u. u have ur choice to go or not to go to church, to give or not to give, u're a sane human being like myself, no bi by force its by choice. like u put ur own opinion up in this thread so can u make ur own choices. and remember if we were leaving in the days of our lord the pastors will be riding donkeys too or trekking.

baby4u2:

u have your choice to go or not to go to church, to give or not to give, u're a sane human being like myself, no bi by force its by choice.

baby4u2, I agree with the fact that God is faithful, and when giving to His work he always replenishes you. But I have to raise a point here; when u're living in Nigeria and life is hard, it is HARD. I have gone through tough times and good times; and believe me your state of mind in periods of extreme poverty would shock you when looking back after being delivered from said poverty. So you're not necessarily a 'sane' human being, able to make 'sane' choices when afflicted by poverty. Most times out of desperation to change one's plight, one sees that the only avenue of change is to do whatever a Hummer-riding, sweet-mouthed "man of God" tells you do to because you believe he is "anointed of God" to "loose people from the bondage of poverty". Whatever happened to teaching people to be satisfied with God, and desiring Him more than even gold, knowing that if God is truly by your side he will never let you suffer in any way. Hence whatever hardships you're going through would pale in comparison to enjoying fellowship with God. Truly, our Pastors have a responsibility to teach us to focus on the face of God, and not on his Hand!

my 2 cents

life is HARD, nice one mprime. but i rest my case, i agree that people have their own different views about pastors. i dont really like going back and fort on one topic although i have alot to say so that my views can be heard. lol. i leave this thread so that i will not be abused by many more. lol. have fun.

@ baby4u2

I'm interested by your comments, and frankly kinda scared.

My first point is WHY do so many people seem to think that they should give blindly to the church and then it's none of your business. In my view the church should be about the people who are in it. As a result they should be the ones who COLLECTIVELY take control of any offering and ensure that it is used for GODS work! i find it incredibly naive that you think that as long as GOD judges the pastor later everything is OK. It's madness and that's exactly why I say people are being ripped off. The crazy thing about it is you seem to realise it too, but are scared to stop in case you don't get your blessing later on!

Maybe the problem is that Nigeria is too used to having a COUNTRY with one guy who runs everything (unaccountable), a BUSINESS where the CHAIRMAN is all powerful(unaccountable), So it's taken a step furrther and in the CHURCH the PASTOR is the only one who is in charge??

Please at least give me some hope and argue that some churches do some good. Don;t just tell me that it's not your business how many jacuzzi's the pastor fits in his house! It seems pretty selfish to me to not care when millions of people are giving up what they can't afford and it's being squandered, all in the hope that your BLESSING will come,

i think its high time the people demand and get the government to be accountable for the public money they use. Also the government should in turn hold the churches accountable for the money they receive by way of taxes. The masses and un - enlightened are just suffering for nothing.

This is the most disgusting topic I have read so far on this site. How can one begin to blame Nigeria's problems on pastors. DO have U guys have any idea how many people would have been unable to cope with the chaos in NIgeria without the encouragement of people like pastor Chris, I used to be one of them,  Did u guys listen to the youth conference he had last year? OH no wait, U didnt!!!! yeah because all u know is what u were told. And what if I decide to give my car or for that matter my whole money to my pastor,, who are u to pass a judgment on that. Do u know how much he has affected my life. I don't hear anybody talk about the north, Sharia law that discriminates against women and non-muslims as the problem. I don't hear any of you talk about the plan to register NIgeria as a member of the organisation of ISlamic countries when muslims only make up only 45% of the total population, but its easier for u to accuse pastors and push them into the mix, because u can do that even publicly and not have to worry about your life. Why not go to a town square in Zamfara state and say the same thing about their Imams and see if u live to see daylight. U guys never seem to quit amazing me. The most progressive and most tolerant areas in NIgeria are areas where Sharia law does not exist. How can u have a progressive deomocratic and free market country, when legislators in some states are passing laws that will encourage investments and offer more personal freedom to citizens, while other states are passing laws that kill women for adultery,, seperate sexes in class and buses,, make non-conformers second class residents and push more women into submission by clothing them like masquerades, talk about what is holding NIgeria back, but again its easier to blame pastors, afterall the holy book most of them adhere to tells them to turn the other cheek, This is so PATHETIC!!!!!!

I hear you about the Imams as well, Any of them who have power over and control their congreagation for the wrong reasons are also there to be condemned.

Obviously I am generalising, Not all Politicians are corrupt (maybe?!?) and not all Pastors are thiefs, but far far far far far too many in Nigeria are.

If you think you know a good one then shout about it, but don't get angry about people condemning the ones who are BAD. As a christian you should be doing the same, i think that Jeses got pretty upset about all the business etc in the synagogues, Maybe Pastor Chris has a message (honestly i've listened to him a few times and I'm yet to hear one) but his performances / merchandising etc look more like business than spirituality to me.

I would have a lot more time for your argument if you did not defend the ones who are obviously just 419 men in suits with bibles in their hands!

@ mekaozi

I am a Christian and I feel that it is my right to criticize churches, which I feel are deceiving people with false and unrealistic prosperity doctrines. Many people cannot see because they are deep in poverty. These pastors are masters of disguise, usurping wealth from people to live luxurious lifestyles while telling such people that they should expect miraculous wealth. Miraculous wealth from where? Let’s not be blind to reality.

Fundamentalist Islam as practiced by so-called Sharia states in the North of Nigeria is just as much a threat. You can start a topic about it and I will give my views (or I could also start a topic about it).

My disapproval of pastors is not a disapproval of Christianity. There are several churches in Nigeria that are contributing to the development of the country by providing a balanced spirituality to their members with good works like building schools and hospitals. The prosperity churches have nothing to offer, other than baseless and shallow teachings that all centre on success, wealth, miracles and other unrealistic things. Why don’t they talk about ethics, love, sacrifice—the virtues on which Christian theology is based.

In my opinion, prosperity churches contribute little to society. They simply hypnotize people into elevating so-called pastors to a God status. I hope in future some of these pastors would be tried by the EFCC! They take the Bible so literally to a fault—the world was created in six days, you must pay tithes…. If you want to understand the Bible, look to those churches that have a longer tradition with the Bible, the church that complied the bible.

The sooner Nigeria was rid of these Pentecostal prosperity churches, the better it would be. Rather than spending hours on end in revivals and prayer meetings, we should be learning mathematics, medicine, chemistry, biology, physics and engineering. Those are the things that we can use to build good roads, provide drinking water and good health care. Not miraculous wealth or whatever it is called. Spirituality is very important though, but it must be a balanced spirituality that helps improve our lives and bring us closer to the Almighty.

I rest my case.

@ Olex
      Not to make an excuse for the glutttonic pastors,  U still have not made a connection between what they preach and the backwardness of Nigeria. I have lots of friends that are very active in the church yet they are very smart and have successful careers. Political problems that arise as a result of policies causes frustrations in people which in-turn leads them to some "pastors" that will take advantage of them. DOnt get it twisted,, in my opinion,  the former led to the later not the other way round. even in the United States people still flock prosperity churches with all the economic prosperity here, but in Nigeria,, frustration as a result of government policies is what causes people to head to their "pastors" for the most part, meaning that the pastors are viewed by the people as a way out of problems that already exists. whether they got ripped off or not is not the issue because the problems are already there!!, as far as pastor chris,, anybody that have listened to him and still thinks he doesnt have a message to nigerian youths, well I really don't know what to say, arguing with that will be a huge waste of time, I still think that Nigeria has not found what values it wants to defend. Islamic countries defends MOhamed and his message,, Western countries for the most part "stands" human rights and free market, but in Nigeria, what do we stand for?, some people are pushing for democracy while others are dragging us back to the stone ages, the two are just irreconcilable, thats what the real issue is

@ mekaozi

In my opinion, the term “prosperity church” is an oxymoron. Prosperity churches are not churches in my view but centers that offer psychological counseling while charging a very high fee to keep the pastors in business. And where there is poverty, they are bound to have millions of adherents. They can give themselves another name and stop giving Christianity such bad publicity. As Nigeria gradually becomes wealthy, most of these so-called churches would fade away.

True Christianity is not about wealth but about living a good life, loving one’s neighbor and living in peace with God and man.

The prosperity churches contribute to the backwardness of Nigeria because they tend to reduce every single event to a mysterious and plain level. For instance, an ill person would be said to be possessed. A student who keeps failing exams goes to the pastor to “cast out the demon” that is preventing him or her from passing his exams. In university, some of their members keep going from one revival to another without studying—in the end they fail their exams. I could go on and on. They need to open up their theology to reality and learn from the traditional churches that have hundreds of years of spiritual and doctrinal development.

couldnt help but write again.
@ mekozi thanks for addding intellectual insights on the church and pastors and on blatant things we should be focusing on rather than the pastors. preaching properity is not wrong, why u may ask? as christians we have to be properous and wealthy. it does'nt mean being a billionaire or millionare it just means being wealthy either spiritually, emotionally or physically (meaning money wise). i know many motivational speakers that talk about money, can we say encouraging us to go out and earn/make more is wrong? But a man ordained by God can't[b](although i have to agree that they may be a lot of fake pastors out there, but keeping in mind that for there to be a fake there must definitely be a real thing)[/b] .

which fee are pastors charging @ olex? did u pay a fee also? if a person is ill and and the reason for his/her sickness cannot be determined and BY HIS STRIPES WE ARE HEALED the Lord says, then u know sickness is not off the Lord but off the devil, so whatz wrong in casting out his demon? is it all students that go for revival that fail? dont stereotype like i've always said. my pastor has always told the story of the revivals they used to go for in school and unbelievers used to insult them, but he came out with a first class in OAU (dont believe, come with me to his house and see it displayed in the living room. e easy to get first class in naija?). there is definitely something spiritually wrong if ur not a lazy person, u study hard and u keep on failing (that needs serious spiritual help, some may seek babalawo, but its better to seek delivarance in church from the devil).

@ monogue u said and i quote "if u know  good ones shout it" (meaning a good pastor) so i say if u know a bad one shout it pluz expose him/her (name names, lets know where and where not to go to, so that we may not be duped).

it's as if some of u are saying the whole lot of people that go to church are stupid, not knowing right from wrong, and not being able to make there own choices? even illiterates make choices. are u one of the stupid ones? have u ever been personally under a pastor that was caught deceiving others? i'am not stupid nor an illiterate and i have never been used nor deceived. my money was given to me by God, so i give a little portion back to get an even greater portion (my belief). i quote myself lol, "u have your choice to go or not to go to church, to give or not to give, u're a sane human being like myself, no bi by force its by choice" .

baby4u2:

couldnt help but write again.
my money was given to me by God, so i give a little portion back to get an even greater portion.

Could you please explain how this works? It sounds like a sure fire investment.
Only my job sucks and I'd really like to take early retirement.

Thank you

TV01 i said my belief. am a christians and i believe in the promises of the Lord about giving. i'm a student in d.c, and its not easy living in the u.s. i live life on an edge that what i tell people each day that keep on worrying. sometimes rent is due and i dont have enough to pay for it, cause u know i would have been working only that u have to get a permit or internship in a company to work. but miraculously if u ask me, money comes, i've never lacked. some just decide to bless me without me asking. money that i've been expecting comes, sometimes even money i dont need becomes available. My principle is simply this, generosity in giving results in a greater reward from God. You want blessing from God, you want it poured out, you want it overflowing, pressed down, shaken together, packed in full, then give. no matter where, if God can give u more when u give others how much more will he give u when u give for the establishment of his gospel on earth.

Good one baby4u2. In addition, here's a little to help.

TV01:

baby4u2 link=topic=10384.msg287679#msg287679 date=1144851772:

my money was given to me by God, so i give a little portion back to get an even greater portion

Could you please explain how this works? It sounds like a sure fire investment.
Only my job sucks and I'd really like to take early retirement.

It's not something that should sound strange: it's there in God's Word -

              "But this I say, He which soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he which soweth
               bountifully shall reap also bountifully." II Cor. 9:6 (please read the whole chapter).

God does not compel me to give - my giving is simply an expression of my love and devotion to His bountiful grace. The fact that the matter of giving has been much abused does not make God change His mind about blessing those who obey His divine principle in any matter. People have abused the Lord's Supper - even in the days of the apostles (I Cor. 11: 21-22), but did God ask them to stop celebrating it? No. While Jesus walked the earth, people had abused the matter of giving and were buying and selling in God's temple; but Jesus did not try to stop people from giving, and even commended the widow who gave her all into the treasury (and we know what the corrupt priests would do with her two mites!) - Mark 12:41-44. Other things which people have abused and continue to abuse are too numerous for me to swell this page with at this time; but God pays very little attention to our whining and complaining and simply looks to the man or woman with an obedient heart. I am called to give - God loves a cheerful giver; but I am not called to be God's accountant - He is the Judge and is quite capable of balancing the books on that Day!

There's nothing that you can claim comes to you by your own power (Deut. 8:17-18). "Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning." (James 1:17). It is He who "gives richly all things to enjoy" (I Tim. 6:10).

        ". . .and what hast thou that thou didst not receive? now if thou didst receive it,
                   why dost thou glory, as if thou hadst not received it?" - I Cor. 4:7.


Yes, everything we enjoy today is given to us by God Himself - and to Him be the glory.

With love.  

OK so everybody is giving in the belief that you are therefore going to get more back (I feel the emphasis is a bit too much on cold cash rather than giving a service or time etc)

But my initial statement was questioning what is actually being done with he money?

Please educate me about all the great works that are being done by the prosperity preaching churches. I want to know more about all the schools they have built for the poor that charge nothing, all the small business loans they have given to develop the local economy, etc etc. Maybe I have it all wrong and it's not just about the flash cars they have and the big houses?? But so far no one has shown me how the churches are actively helping to transform the country. They have the money, where is it being spent.

For example WINNERS has built a university, sadly from what I hear it is very expensive and most of the congregation can't afford for their kids to go there!?!?

I had the same comment for the politicians and no one has stood up for them, and we're not even giving them the money of our own free will.

Please help and enlighten me so that I can become a supporter of prosperity preaching!! Any facts and figures on where the billions are going would shut people like me up more than saying let's not judge the pastor leave it to God,