Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! - Family (5) - Nairaland
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| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by Nobody: 10:16am On Jul 18, 2013 |
^^ It's obvious that you do. It's also obcious that you won't because I already showed you how and you dismissed it with a flimsy excuse. And I'm in no mood for endless arguments right now. If we did an exhaustive study of God's Way of Salvation, we would still find that the passage in Revelation that I quoted to you is sufficient to show you that "before Christianity" is gibberish. I'm not going to do it because I have no energy to do this all over again and repeat myself every few posts. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 10:26am On Jul 18, 2013 |
I just don't want to toll another line on this ! My question was,'were they marriages before the one between Adam and Eve ? Oya,birdman or any other pls help me ! God help us all |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by debosky(m): 11:03am On Jul 18, 2013 |
I disagree - marriage is available to all descendants of Adam and Eve - i.e. those who are human beings. However, to optimally marry, you need to follow the instructions of the One who initiated marriage in the first place. In essence without conforming to what the originator intended, there are bound to be mistakes and misuse. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 11:20am On Jul 18, 2013 |
debosky: I disagree - marriage is available to all descendants of Adam and Eve - i.e. those who are human beings.So,you are in consensus with the claim that no marriage ever took place before the one between Adam and Eve right ? Pls reply God help us |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by debosky(m): 11:23am On Jul 18, 2013 |
^^ Biblical evidence tells us those were the first man and woman created, so yes I do agree there were no other humans, therefore no other unions before theirs. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 12:04pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
debosky: ^^Thank You for believing in the word of God (bible) ! Since Adam and Eve were the first to get married and from the bible we saw clearly how God orchestrated the union(marriage)Did HE (GOD)allow the union(marriage) for perverts,unbelievers,satanists,Atheists,demons or for HIS obedient creation(children) ? This takes us down to the question of who were Adam and Eve ? Debosky,i think we are saying the same thing but anyone who does not agree that Marriage was originally for Believers should answer the above question ! God help us |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by LordReed(m): 1:22pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: Here is Genesis 2: 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. Were does it state that the man and woman have to believe in God? |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 1:50pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
Lord_Reed: PLS WHICH MAN AND WOMAN was Gen 2:23 referring to ? You think before the days of Law and even during the time of Law God had dealings with unbelievers ? God was referring to believers ! To HIS obedient children(Adam and Eve). See below HIS words for to HIS own : Genesis 1:26-28''Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals,and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”So God created mankind in his own image,in the image of God he created them;male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.” So my brother,from the scripture above,we can understand that man was originally created in the image and likeness of God ! But did man continue in this way that he was made ? May be i should ask you if 'we' as sinners are still like God ? Or may be this one will be clearer;Is Shekau the Boko Haram leader like God in all his actions and inaction ? Something happened to man that changed or perverted the original plans of God ! The devil is responsible for this perversion ! Let me stop here as i await ur points for us to proceed ! Adam and Eve were not sinners(disobedient)until the devil came ! The marriage plans that led to multiplication was orchestrated by God so all (seeds of Adam &Eve)can be obedient through through the obedience of their father and mother but the reverse was the case until something happened ! God help us |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by LordReed(m): 3:30pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: In other words the fruitfulness was only for believers so why are sinners fruitful? Why are sinners prosperous? |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by debosky(m): 3:39pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: The creator designed human beings for union, so yes - every human being created by God is eligible to marry. Of course, without following the creator's template, you will not be able to fulfill the ultimate potential of marriage. Please note that even when Adam and Eve sinned, (and those that came after them) none of them were deemed not suitable to marry. Even Abram - the father of faith - only had his encounter with God after he was married, and he was to all intents an 'unbeliever' at that point.
The first man and woman. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by Nobody: 4:04pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
Interesting that Lord Reed is still following this topic. I never got to see those Scriptures you were going to show me. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by Nobody: 4:07pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
debosky: What is a human being? |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 4:25pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
Lord_Reed:The fruitfulness ORIGINALLY was for believers not minding that God allowed it on all after the fall of man ! See below words of Christ Mathew 5:45 ''that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. When God said to Adam and Eve(man) be fruitful ! Was he referring to a sinning or an unbelieving man ? NO,but to HIS like !When things changed as a result of the fall of man did God continue to bless man ? NO,instead he placed the ever first CURSE as against the initial blessing on man ! To the woman Genesis 3:16'' "I will make your pains in childbearing very severe; with painful labor you will give birth to children. Your desire will be for your husband, and he will rule over you." Pls consider the highlighted ! And to the man-Genesis 3:17''"Because you listened to your wife and ate fruit from the tree about which I commanded you, 'You must not eat from it,' "Cursed is the ground because of you; through painful toil you will eat food from it all the days of your life. But what happened there after ? God help us |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 4:49pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
debosky:Please see below scripture to show you that i'm not against unbelievers getting married neither i'm i saying that God said unbelievers shouldn't marry but what i am saying going by the title of the thread is that THE ORIGINAL PLAN OF MARRIAGE BY GOD WAS FOR BELIEVERS ! 1 Corinthians 7:13''And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him.'' From the above,we have seen that a believing partner sanctifies the unbelieving partner.This is the exact reason for approving the foundational mistake of getting married to an unbeliever.May be you got married to him or her before divorce.Pls see this scripture 1 Corinthians 7:14 ''For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy. But have you wondered why the bible NEVER supported that believing spouse should divorce ? Pls see the scripture below before we proceed: 1 Corinthians 7:15 ''But if the husband or wife who isn't a believer insists on leaving, let them go. In such cases the Christian husband or wife is no longer bound to the other. But God has called you to live in peace.'' From the above,we can see clearly that God desires the marriage to be for believers not minding that HE also allowed them to get married if they want.Marriage was originally for believers but the mercies and love of God allowed all to be partakers NOW but it wasn't the original plan. Holy spirit,pls help my brothers here to see this rhema as you made me saw it ! God help us all |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 4:54pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by TV01(m): 10:24pm On Jul 18, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: The conclusion here is not necessarily a fact. It's at best an opinion unless supported by further evidence. There were no unbelievers at that point so it's a mere assertion that it was created for believers. What need was there for a distinction of any kind? It's sound like a fallacy to introduce belief/unbelief into the mix? And rather pointless. (I see parallels - in a wierd way - between the gay claim that marriage discriminates against them, as their love is just as real. It's a fallacy, marriage is based on function, not feeling) It's evidently more factual to say that God instituted marriage for "Mankind". And of course for believers there are certain imperatives for marriage. m.k.o2005: This is not conclusive. The fact that God calls for marriage between believers does not logically lead to to the conclusion that it's not meant for unbelievers. What is in view is not marriage, but belief. m.k.o2005: Again, not really furthering your assertion. Sin did not void the marriage. The curse was on all mankind wasn't it? Child birth is still risky, women live to please men  , it's a mans world and I still work way too hard  !I'm not saying you are wrong, merely you have not really nailed this. I join you in that prayer, but otherwise my position remains; marriage is for mankind and believers have certain morés to follow. Ihedinobi hi, what sayest thou? I have never really considered this. If you have any insight, please share. Briefly please. TV |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by Nobody: 12:20am On Jul 19, 2013 |
Hi TV  It's wonderful to hear from you again.Briefly, God meant marriage for man. The proper definition of man is that which is in the Image of God. The only One Whom we know is that Image is the Man Jesus Christ. And Christians are all men and women who are in Him. Thus, marriage is meant for Christians alone. However, His rain falls on the just and the unjust. He will acknowledge (perhaps not the best word to use) alliances made by unbelievers and make of them the same demand that He makes of alliances between believers: a holy seed. That which fails to meet the demand will be uprooted and thrown into the fire as a lie. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by birdman(m): 2:38am On Jul 19, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: you are over thinking marriage. The primary reason a man and woman get together is for procreation. Marriage is a man-made institution to legitimize what God ordained in the eyes of the state. Without marriage, you would still have man-woman unions, because they are about giving birth to new life, not some bullsh** some pastor made up to make you feel good. So to you answer you indirectly, you should be asking if there were unions giving birth to new life before Adam and Eve instead. Marriage is a cultural, man-made term that can mean anything you want. Heck, in some cultures, same sexe marriage is legit  Ihedinobi: @shdemidemi that what I thought. In the face of factual biblical evidence, you prefer making up feel good stories to justify your belief. with thousands of people who prefer entertainment to reality, its little wonder being a pastor can be so lucrative. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by Nobody: 6:08am On Jul 19, 2013 |
birdman: that what I thought. In the face of factual biblical evidence, you prefer making up feel good stories to justify your belief. with thousands of people who prefer entertainment to reality, its little wonder being a pastor can be so lucrative. What in the world is he talking about?  |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by shdemidemi(m): 8:02am On Jul 19, 2013 |
This topic is not right atall in any ramification, believers have failed to see what the priority is. Marriage can never be and it is never for only believers because the term believer actually came with the gospel. Adam and Eve had no gospel to believe, they were made as man and woman in a relationship with their creator. The only one they had ever known and heard from before the arrival of the serpent. God did not create man because of marriage, therefore, marriage is not an end but a means to an end in the life of every believer. A marriage is the the union of any man and a woman (descendant of Adam and Eve) in matrimony. Marriage was designed to be peaceful and blissful if God's principles were applied. We must understand the reason for marriage from God's perspective before going into one. Without God we would handle problems within our marriage like an unbeliever would (wisdom of this world) and we might likely get a similar result. We must dismiss from our mind the moral, political and cultural stands to understand God's own perspective as regards marriage. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by LordReed(m): 9:07am On Jul 19, 2013 |
Ihedinobi: Interesting that Lord Reed is still following this topic. I never got to see those Scriptures you were going to show me. Sorry events overtook my desire to do so and copying and pasting isn't so smooth on mobile. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by LordReed(m): 9:15am On Jul 19, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: God still did not remove the ability to procreate despite the fall and curse. The only conditional blessing given to man was concerning the two trees and their fruit which is why it required the curse to affect the ability to procreate and to be productive. If all of the blessings man was given was conditioned on his obedience to God, God won't have needed to curse the earth again after the fall. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by shdemidemi(m): 9:30am On Jul 19, 2013 |
Just to deviate a little. Many believers do not understand one of the curses in Genesis 3 16 Then God said to the woman, “I will ·cause you to have much trouble [or increase your pain] ·when you are pregnant [in childbearing], and when you give birth to children, you will have great pain. You will greatly desire [C the word implies a desire to control; 4:7] your husband, but he will rule over you.” Every woman desires to control her man in our present world. The life outside the garden (the cursed life) but the man has been wired to rule over the woman thus conflict. Being a believer takes us back to the garden where the woman is kept and protected while she submit and the man loves and sees her as a helpmeet. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 12:15pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
TV01:Concerning marriage bein made for mankind,i asked again,what was the original intention for God making man in his own image and likeness ? May be to be disobedient and become God's enemy ! Concerning believers having certain mores to follow,wouldn't it hav been perfect if all were believers so we just follow and not to have certain mores to follow ? All perfect gift come from God and marriage is not an exception !God intended for man kind to be perfect and received one of the perfect gifts(marriage)from HIM. BUT WHAT HAPPENED ? Did God withdrew the gift of marriage from HIS creation ? NO! Because HE knows there will be a plan B to bring mankind back into HIS embrace ! When you say there were no believers at that time,i began to wonder who Adam/Eve were while in the garden before the deception of the devil(serpent)Don't you know that there was an instruction regarding do's and dont's ? They were keeping off the fruits of those trees becos God gave an instruction and THEY OBEYED-making them BELIEVERS. When the serpent came,deceived them,they ate from that tree,thereby DISOBEYING GOD-making the UNBELIEVERS ! So why are you saying that there were no believers then ? Do you think God placed curses on them for OBEYING HIM ? NO,it was because of their DISOBEDIENCE.The relationship with God was immediately severed ! Belief was in view hence the blessing of the marriage union ! Concerning what sin -disobedience did to marriage,it brought curses(hard labour in child bearing & hard labour in surviving ! Just to mention a few) into the marriage BUT left the initial blessings of God(fruitfulness,subdue and the rest)in the marraige. I repeat,i am not saying that unbelievers should not marry,neither am i saying that [b]GOD SAID [/b]they shouldn't,all i'm saying is that the original plan of God for marriage was for mankind who were made to be in the image & likeness of God to be OBEDIENT(believers)of their maker,GOD ! God help us |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 12:46pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
shdemidemi: This topic is not right atall in any ramification, believers have failed to see what the priority is. Marriage can never be and it is never for only believers because the term believer actually came with the gospel. Adam and Eve had no gospel to believe, they were made as man and woman in a relationship with their creator. The only one they had ever known and heard from before the arrival of the serpent. God did not create man because of marriage, therefore, marriage is not an end but a means to an end in the life of every believer.I know you study ur bible shdemidemi,i want you to see the insight here and not just for argument. I ask you first,were there instructions given to Adam and Eve by God in the Garden ? Incase you dnt know there were,pls see below: Genesis 2:16-17''And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.'' Pls don't agree with the word of God quoted above since you said that there were no gospel for Adma and Eve to believe. I now ask,if one who believes in the gospel is a believer,what then is the gospel ? Is the gospel not the word of God ? If God commands,are we not to obey ? If we disobey,will God be happy with us ? Ofcourse No becos we saw what HE did to the disobedient occupants of the garden ! It is very true that God never made man becos of marriage but from the the scriptures we can see that God intends using marriage to duplicate HIS creation ! See below scripture for back up: Genesis 1:28'' God blessed them and said to them, "Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.'' If you still oppose the above word of God,then there is really nothing i can do but wait upon the holy spirit ! Okay,if God's principles were applied marriage will be peaceful and blissful ! In other words,if these principles of God are not been applied nothing good comes out of it right,going by the highlighted above ! ? All i know i could say is there are principles to everything that must be followed. If you fail to follow this Godly principles,nothing works for you not minding if you are a christian ! Marriage is for mankind whom God intends originally to be believers and not some disobedient folks ! But never the less,HIS grace abounds and all receives this blessing irrespective of your position. But i tell us all,there are special meat for the children that aren't meant for dogs ! God help us all |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by shdemidemi(m): 3:20pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
You referred to the commandment God gave Adam as a gospel! It was not a gospel bro, what they had with God in the garden was a relationship with a command, It had nothing to do with belief. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 3:40pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
shdemidemi: You referred to the commandment God gave Adam as a gospel!if it had nothing to do with belief,how then was it disobeyed ? If Eve had believed in what God said that the day you eat of it you will surely die,how then was it disobeyed ? It was unbelief that led to the disobedience of the command ! See below scripture to show you that Eve disbelieved the word of God and believed the words of the devil : Genesis 3:1-5''Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden? And the woman said unto the serpent, We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die. And the serpent said unto the woman, Ye shall not surely die: For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.'' Go through the scriptures with an open heart then you will see the angle am comming from. It's not a contest ! There is no winner or looser we are both Christians who are learning and beien encouraged by ourselves with the word of God as a basis for study ! God help us |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by shdemidemi(m): 3:51pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: Like I said before, what they had was a commandment not a gospel. As believers today, you and I don't have a commandment like Adam and Eve, we have the gospel of Christ. Although, we both have our volition to choose for or against God. They were not Christians, they were not believers of this gospel if you understand what I mean. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by mko2005: 4:27pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
shdemidemi:Saying they were not believers of 'this gospel' will mean saying something else.But they should be a believer of a gospel but definitely not this one,you understand what i mean ! See below meaning of gospel : 1.The teaching or revelation of Christ.-This gospel ! 2.A thing that is absolutely true.-That gospel(the word of God before the death of Christ )I understand what you are saying and i also want to believe you see the angle am coming from. God help us all |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by birdman(m): 2:32am On Jul 20, 2013 |
Ihedinobi: keep faking ignorance. I like how you just "forget" any challenges to this bs you keep talking about |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by shdemidemi(m): 7:47am On Jul 20, 2013 |
m.k.o2005: I understood the angle you were coming from right from when I saw the topic. I thought to myself, someone is trying to be technical. I agree to your first definition of the gospel which makes you and I brothers of the same body of Christ. I believe you would understand my next statement, it might be over the head of other readers though. You should know the Jewish believers are not part of the mystical body of Christ for they are subjects of the king of the Jews (Jesus). Therefore, anyone that is to be called a believer of the gospel as far as the church is concerned should be part of the body of Christ. With your second definition, I see it as generalising the word 'believer' cos many people believe in God in diverse ways, this can be traced back to the Tower of Babel. We cannot then say because they believe in an unknown god like the guys in the book of Acts, they could be called believers(the mystical body of Christ). I hope you get what I mean. |
| Re: Marriage Is Meant For Believers Only ! by Nobody: 10:23am On Jul 20, 2013 |
birdman: Lol. I'm yet to hear what challenges you mean. Funny thing is that when you reopened this conversation with me I'd forgotten that I'd already answered the question that you were repeating. You can go on imagining those challenges, if you wish. I don't much care. |
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