Lol, This post is interesting. Frosbel, would you mind my opening a thread so you can tell us exactly who Jesus is?

Goshen360:

There is no bible student that will ever say Jesus is Yahweh, Okay. That is very clear from the scripture, Jesus is NOT the Father.

Beloved bro, one small correction: The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all I AM, that is, Yahweh. Doesn't mean that they're the same person. The Name speaks of Absolute or Ultimate, that is final, unchanging, Reality. That is what God is.

In addition to the passages pointed out by Goshen360, let me point to one more ---- although I know that the inevitable result will be "translation gyrations"

Acts 20:28

NIV

Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood.

NLT

"So guard yourselves and God's people. Feed and shepherd God's flock--his church, purchased with his own blood--over which the Holy Spirit has appointed you as elders.

NASB

"Be on guard for yourselves and for all the flock, among which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God which He purchased with His own blood.

Ihedinobi:

Beloved bro, one small correction: The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all I AM, that is, Yahweh. Doesn't mean that they're the same person. The Name speaks of Absolute or Ultimate, that is final, unchanging, Reality. That is what God is.

Okay bro. Yours noted. I will explore it. Thanks bro for the good fight of faith.

Mr_Anony: Lol, This post is interesting. Frosbel, would you mind my opening a thread so you can tell us exactly who Jesus is?

Exactly and something similar I intend doing with Frosbel.....am getting sick on his attack on the deity of Christ. Let's open another thread for debate and let's fix a date/time. Frosbel in trouble.....lolz

Goshen360:

NLT translation which is one of Frosble's favourite translations proves it better.......@ Frosbel, who is Peter refering to as God in II Peter 2:1, NLT

Goshen my bro....

What do u have to say abouth this rendition from the american standard version??



American Standard Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus
Christ, to them that have obtained a like
precious faith with us in the righteousness of
our God and the'saviour Jesus Christ:
......

The trinity will always make u guys hold on to cherry picked verses that is never congruent with the rest of the scriptures...

In that same 1 peter peter still differentiates between Yahweh and Jesus ....

So I don't know what's wrong with u guys....

[quote author=Goshen360]

There is no bible student that will ever say Jesus is Yahweh, Okay. That is very clear from the scripture, Jesus is NOT the Father.

Good man !

In deed you seems not to know that hope of our faith. This is the hope of our faith,

Okay SIR

New International Version (©1984)
Through him you believe in God, who raised him from the dead and glorified him, and so your faith and hope are in God.
1 Peter 1:21

New Living Translation (©2007)
Through Christ you have come to trust in God. And you have placed your faith and hope in God because he raised Christ from the dead and gave him great glory.

The verses you quoted are enough proof to do away with the Trinity doctrine.

I do not intend to go into the debate with you here since you have not said anything concerning the rules I intend for a debate between you and I. You above statement failed because the Apostles recognized Christ as God,

No they did not.

New International Version (©1984)
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who through the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ have received a faith as precious as ours:

- Our God
- Saviour Jesus Christ

Goshen360:

NLT translation which is one of Frosble's favourite translations proves it better.......@ Frosbel, who is Peter refering to as God in II Peter 2:1, NLT

.

Ihedinobi:

Beloved bro, one small correction: The Father, Jesus and the Holy Spirit are all I AM, that is, Yahweh. Doesn't mean that they're the same person. The Name speaks of Absolute or Ultimate, that is final, unchanging, Reality. That is what God is.

I will like to add to this point by Ihedinobi that certainly in The Septuagint, the word Yahweh is translated as 'Kyrios'.

'Kyrios' itself is often translated into English as "Lord" ---- indeed when we see "Jesus is Lord" what we are seeing is the translation (in part) "Jesus is Kyrios" so it really is not alien to see/understand it as "Jesus is Yahweh".

ijawkid:

Goshen my bro....

What do u have to say abouth this rendition from the american standard version??



American Standard Version
Simon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus
Christ, to them that have obtained a like
precious faith with us in the righteousness of
our God and the'saviour Jesus Christ:
......

The trinity will always make u guys hold on to cherry picked verses that is never congruent with the rest of the scriptures...

In that same 1 peter peter still differentiates between Yahweh and Jesus ....

So I don't know what's wrong with u guys....

Bla bla bla............ What else is new? Don't you guys cherrypick translations? You even cherrypick across translations. You twist and turn passages that you decide the RCC mistranslated. You delete verses. You say right in the face of a verse that it does not say what it says. There are no worse liars than people who lie right in the presence of Truth. Such liars are incurable.

Can you show one passage that any "Trinitarian" has attempted to retranslate? Can you show any example of a "Trinitarian" saying that any translation is wrong just to support the doctrine of the Trinity? Have you guys ever neglected to make the excuse that the stronger RCC forced meanings and verses into all translations of the Scriptures to make them speak of the Trinity?

In fact, I don't have a problem taking you guys on with your very own Bible, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Boomark couldn't handle the heat, do you think you can? Believe me, your heart has to be hardened like granite and your conscience numb like a frost-bitten toe for you to insist that the Trinity is unbiblical. Just dare to consent to proving that the Trinity is unbiblical using your very own version of the Bible and see what happens.

Enigma:

I will like to add to this point by Ihedinobi that certainly in The Septuagint, the word Yahweh is translated as 'Kyrios'.

'Kyrios' itself is often translated into English as "Lord" ---- indeed when we see "Jesus is Lord" what we are seeing is the translation (in part) "Jesus is Kyrios" so it really is not alien to see/understand it as "Jesus is Yahweh".

Taking this into consideration Abraham was also LORD , no ?

Even as Sara obeyed Abraham, calling him lord: whose daughters ye are, as long as ye do well, and are not afraid with any amazement - 1 Peter 3:6

Kings , judges etc were referred to as Lord in the bible .

So Abraham was called "Yahweh" --- is thast what you are saying?

Enigma: In addition to the passages pointed out by Goshen360, let me point to one more ---- although I know that the inevitable result will be "translation gyrations"

Acts 20:28

NIV

NLT

NASB

And these verses prove that Jesus is GOD, lol.

You have lost the plot, utterly so.

Read again and this time put on your thinking hat !

@Frosbel

Mr_Anony: Lol, This post is interesting. Frosbel, would you mind my opening a thread so you can tell us exactly who Jesus is?

Here it is if you are interested

https://www.nairaland.com/1068073/frosbel-jesus-christ-re-proposition#12464230

frosbel:




And these verses prove that Jesus is GOD, lol.

You have lost the plot, utterly so.

Read again and this time put on your thinking hat !

And hou have always been a dunce of course?

So which God purchased the Church with His blood?

Enigma: So Abraham was called "Yahweh" --- is thast what you are saying?

Lord is not always translated Yahweh.

Let me give you examples.

2 Thessalonians 1:12 - We pray this so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and the Lord Jesus Christ.

The Lord is signifies :

kurios: lord, master
Original Word: κύριος, ου, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: kurios
Phonetic Spelling: (koo'-ree-os)
Short Definition: lord, Lord, master, sir
Definition: lord, master, sir; the Lord.


Stop parroting half baked truths !

^^^ My argument is lost on you naturally; I would have suggested you should read it again but I guess even if you read it ten times the nuance/subtlety would still be lost on you.

Enigma:

And hou have always been a dunce of course?

So which God purchased the Church with His blood?

So says the Lawyer who cannot understand why evidence is a part of Logic.

Anyway , let me bail you out again.


24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me--the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace. 25 "Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood

It so obvious I seriously wonder how you can miss this , that v28 was a continuation of Paul's statement centred around Christ Jesus.

Jesus Christ purchased the church of GOD with his own blood, no ?

You are truly getting all mixed up.

Enigma: ^^^ My argument is lost on you naturally; I would have suggested you should read it again but I guess even if you read it ten times the nuance/subtlety would still be lost on you.

Oh common, I expect more from an 'intelligent' man.

Ihedinobi:

Bla bla bla............ What else is new? Don't you guys cherrypick translations? You even cherrypick across translations. You twist and turn passages that you decide the RCC mistranslated. You delete verses. You say right in the face of a verse that it does not say what it says. There are no worse liars than people who lie right in the presence of Truth. Such liars are incurable.

Can you show one passage that any "Trinitarian" has attempted to retranslate? Can you show any example of a "Trinitarian" saying that any translation is wrong just to support the doctrine of the Trinity? Have you guys ever neglected to make the excuse that the stronger RCC forced meanings and verses into all translations of the Scriptures to make them speak of the Trinity?

In fact, I don't have a problem taking you guys on with your very own Bible, the New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures. Boomark couldn't handle the heat, do you think you can? Believe me, your heart has to be hardened like granite and your conscience numb like a frost-bitten toe for you to insist that the Trinity is unbiblical. Just dare to consent to proving that the Trinity is unbiblical using your very own version of the Bible and see what happens.

Lol.....

The trinity is false bro....

Its all pagan..

Since I've been on this forum I've never quoted from the NWT....

I've used translations authored by trinitarians...

And I just did quote from the american version to show 2peter 1:1 is talking about 2 different persons...

Bur u just closed your eyes....

The trinity is not biblical....

frosbel:

So says the Lawyer who cannot understand why evidence is a part of Logic.

Anyway , let me bail you out again.


24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me--the task of testifying to the gospel of God's grace. 25 "Now I know that none of you among whom I have gone about preaching the kingdom will ever see me again. 26 Therefore, I declare to you today that I am innocent of the blood of all men. 27 For I have not hesitated to proclaim to you the whole will of God. 28 Keep watch over yourselves and all the flock of which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers. Be shepherds of the church of God, which he bought with his own blood

It so obvious I seriously wonder how you can miss this , that v28 was a continuation of Paul's statement centred around Christ Jesus.

Jesus Christ purchased the church of GOD with his own blood, no ?

You are truly getting all mixed up.

After Paul had already interjected "God" and even "Holy Spirit" before turning to "Church of god which He purchased with His own blood"?

Of course Jesus is the God who purchased the Church with his own blood.

Enigma:

After Paul had already interjected "God" and even "Holy Spirit" before turning to "Church of god which He purchased with His own blood"?

Of course Jesus is the God who purchased the Church with his own blood.

So church of GOD now means GOD ?

And if you say the Holy Spirit was speaking , is GOD not a Spirit, does God not have 1 Spirit or does he have 2 ?

"God IS Spirit." You can't separate the Father from His Spirit. The two are "one" in the most intimate sense possible. Therefore, when the Spirit
conveys instruction it is GOD speaking. When the Spirit performs wonders, it is GOD working. Make no mistake about it: there is something very personal about the Holy Spirit - IT IS GOD.

in v21 , heres what Paul says :

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Is this not a clear distinction between God and Christ.

Enigma:

And hou have always been a dunce of course?

So which God purchased the Church with His blood?

And can I please debunk u on acts 20:28 with a trinitarian translation.....


Acts 20:28 (Good News
Translation)

Acts 20:28
28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all
the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in
your care. Be shepherds of the church of God,
which he made his own through the blood of his
Son.
....

Again u and your cohorts are so desperate to prove the trinity but the bible will always prove u wrong....

U can follow this link to read from the goodnews bible so that won't say I copied this from the new world translation....

www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/acts/passage.aspx?q=acts+20:17;acts+20:28

......Read it up.....

How many times would we tell you guys that God cannot die and so cannot bleed...

You guys keep pushing that God can die...
SMH!!!!!

ijawkid:

And can I please debunk u on acts 20:28 with a trinitarian translation.....


Acts 20:28 (Good News
Translation)

Acts 20:28
28 So keep watch over yourselves and over all
the flock which the Holy Spirit has placed in
your care. Be shepherds of the church of God,
which he made his own through the blood of his
Son.
....

Again u and your cohorts are so desperate to prove the trinity but the bible will always prove u wrong....

U can follow this link to read from the goodnews bible so that won't say I copied this from the new world translation....

www.biblestudytools.com/gnt/acts/passage.aspx?q=acts+20:17;acts+20:28

......Read it up.....

How many times would we tell you guys that God cannot die and so cannot bleed...

You guys keep pushing that God can die...
SMH!!!!!

They have run away again, that dishonest person and his cohorts

ijawkid:

Lol.....

The trinity is false bro....

Its all pagan..

Since I've been on this forum I've never quoted from the NWT....

I've used translations authored by trinitarians...

And I just did quote from the american version to show 2peter 1:1 is talking about 2 different persons...

Bur u just closed your eyes....

The trinity is not biblical....

So, no, you're too chicken to dare to debate against the Trinity with your own translation of the Bible, right? Continue with your "Trinity is pagan" mantra, but it's lost every iota of credibility now.

Let us revisit this topic brethren, the lives of millions of depend on it.

Please before you call me a heretic, consider that many precious Muslim ,Jewish and even atheist brothers and sisters have been totally confused by this so called doctrine and hence they have been denied a chance at salvation by the Messiah Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Christ is not Yahweh , he is distinct from Yahweh but is Co-Equal with the Father in ONE purpose .


So what do we have here :

1. Yahweh : God Almighty who is not a MAN , but our father, the ancient of days, the one who has no beginning and no end.

2. Yeshua : Our redeemer Lord Jesus Christ , the Saviour of mankind and the exact likeness of the Father in Human form.

This trinity doctrine does not make sense and if it does make sense then it should be discarded. What makes sense is that our Loving Father has sent a Saviour in the likeness of Man to redeem Man from the Power of sin and death.

Jesus Christ is the last Adam who came to undo what the first Adam had damaged.

"So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit." - 1 Corinthians 15:45

Simply put Jesus Christ was Born as a Man with the Power of the Holy Spirit and genetically flawless. He had to be a Man to overcome SIN

Reasons why Jesus cannot be Yahweh :

1. God cannot be tempted , but Jesus was tempted

2. God cannot die but our Lord died and was raised on the third day

3. Before Jesus Christ started his ministry he had to be anointed with the Holy Spirit just like we believers today.

4. On the cross our Lord cried, ' father why has thou forsaken me ' , so this was Jesus our Lord and Saviour not GOD.

4. God with his power raised up Jesus from the Dead.

5. God has put all things under his feet and giving Christ the highest honour in heaven and earth , whereby he rules as GOD but is not GOD.

6. Places were Jesus was referred to as GOD in the bible we actually translated as LORD in the correct Greek or Hebrew translation

7. Jesus Christ said the Father is greater than I

8. He prayed to the father.



We owe our very lives , gratitude and service to Christ Jesus, who as the last Adam has defeated SATAN and restored dominion to mankind which will be completed when all his enemies have been put under his feet.


Praise and all gratitude be to Yahweh Almighty from everlasting to everlasting.

I am thankful to God that he has made himself known to man, God is not the author of confusion and yet many churches want us to accept this Pagan trintiy doctrine hook line and sinker without the ability to reason with scriptures.

Let us discuss .

God bless.


[size=13pt]For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.[/size] - 1 Corinthians 14:33

frosbel:

So church of GOD now means GOD ?

And if you say the Holy Spirit was speaking , is GOD not a Spirit, does God not have 1 Spirit or does he have 2 ?

"God IS Spirit." You can't separate the Father from His Spirit. The two are "one" in the most intimate sense possible. Therefore, when the Spirit
conveys instruction it is GOD speaking. When the Spirit performs wonders, it is GOD working. Make no mistake about it: there is something very personal about the Holy Spirit - IT IS GOD.

in v21 , heres what Paul says :

21 I have declared to both Jews and Greeks that they must turn to God in repentance and have faith in our Lord Jesus.

Is this not a clear distinction between God and Christ.

Meh........frosbel is wonderful. Now, the Holy Spirit is personal. Only thing is He is the Father or the Father's Spirit which still makes Him the Father. #roaringwithlaughter# fros-b, you go kii pesin o. Na wa for dis guy.

Anyway sha, I'm hanging around to watch you come full circle, dude.

THE MYSTERY OF INIQUITY

Verses 7 and 8 of the same chapter say, "For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth* will let,* until he be taken out of the way"

Note that mystery is a key word for the identification of this man of sin. The Roman Catholic catechism abounds with this key word mystery, more so than any other ‘Christian’ organisation. In 325 A. D. the Nicene Creed even changed the credible Biblical doctrine of the One God, the Father of Jesus, into an unintelligible doctrine of their trinity. (See Mark 12:28-32, John 17:3, 20:17, Revelation 1:1 with 3:12) This mystery of iniquity was already at work in the time of the Apostles, for some were already [size=14pt]denying that Jesus had shared the same flesh as that of all mankind.[/size] (Compare 1st John 4:3 with Hebrews 2:14-18 & 4:15-16)

Instead of believing in a Jesus whose flesh was as capable of producing temptation from within Him, as was that of the rest of mankind; they invented an 'immaculate' Christ. This doctrine became enshrined first, in the Roman church, together with an immaculate mother called the ‘Mother of God’. Thus the mystery of iniquity became consolidated.

Protestants beware! Deny these unscriptural mysteries, lest you be a partaker of her sins. Verse 8 continues, "And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming."

When viewed with verse 7 (above) this iniquitous system was to have small beginnings in Paul’s day, then later reveal itself when its suppressor (paganism) was taken out of the way. It would continue right up to the return of Jesus, to be destroyed. What better candidate could we have than the current Roman religious and political system. For it boasts its origins in New Testament times, and yet perverts basic essential New Testament doctrines.

# The Greek word katecho means to suppress. When the Authorised Version appeared, ‘let’ meant to hinder or hold back.

http://www.bibleed.com/bibleteachings/godandcreation/themanofsin.asp

Ihedinobi:

So, no, you're too chicken to dare to debate against the Trinity with your own translation of the Bible, right? Continue with your "Trinity is pagan" mantra, but it's lost every iota of credibility now.

Hey bro we've discussed so much on this topic,,,,,,

What else is there to discus??

Soon u'll start with your love philosophy to prove why God can die and bla bla bla....

I have all the translations right with me to keep exposing the trinity for the fraud it is.....

.......

I don't have to dare u,....who are u by the way??.........the trinity will always be false because it is not akin with the scriptures......

Its foreign to the bible......

Ihedinobi:

Meh........frosbel is wonderful. Now, the Holy Spirit is personal. Only thing is He is the Father or the Father's Spirit which still makes Him the Father. #roaringwithlaughter# fros-b, you go kii pesin o. Na wa for dis guy.

Anyway sha, I'm hanging around to watch you come full circle, dude.

Bros, you sef see am!

Hear the latest wey our friend tok now:

frosbel: . . . And if you say the Holy Spirit was speaking , is GOD not a Spirit, does God not have 1 Spirit or does he have 2 ?

"God IS Spirit." You can't separate the Father from His Spirit. The two are "one" in the most intimate sense possible. Therefore, when the Spirit
conveys instruction it is GOD speaking. When the Spirit performs wonders, it is GOD working. Make no mistake about it: there is something very personal about the Holy Spirit - IT IS GOD. . . .

Now the Holy Spirit IS God (though our friend still uses "IT" for HIM) ---- the same Holy Spirit that he and his friends have been saying is only a "force" etc.

OK so now The Father is God and The Holy Spirit IS God. Cool

And that one is not "polytheism" as our friends claim of The Trinity?

Oh, and while The Father is God and The Holy Spirit is God, Jesus is just a "man"!

Confusion don break bone and Overtake don overtake overtake.

And by the way when The Father sends The Holy Spirit as "comforter" . . . .

@frosbel

My God! But I so pity you, frosbel. Why do I still retain hope that you will come to your senses? You are dancing around so much, but I pray, oh, how I pray that that which is Christ may be found within you and you be brought home again.

My friend, your confusion is great. I can understand about you questioning everything. Like I said, every believer passes through that phase where they intelligently apprehend who they are and what sets them apart from everyone else. If you're in that phase, may the Lord bring you through. May this stubbornness not be the product of a heart hardened against the Lord. May your utterances be forgiven you and the Lord restore you.

I pray for you, frosbel. I pray that you grasp the Lord's Mercy and be hurled hauled back to safety. Said He not that His hand is not too short to save? I know that He can save to the uttermost. May the Lord Jesus save you. How I pray, how I desire, how I wish, frosbel, that you have not sealed your fate. May you not wander from His Presence forever. May you remember again who you are. If only there may be found even one small particle of Christ in you, oh Father, grant that there may be that which is Christ in frosbel that he may be brought home again.

What can I say to you, frosbel? Words and tears mean nothing for a hardened heart. Threats and consequences cannot prevent that which has broken from the root and the foundation. Even these words may remain here as a monument for others, but for you it could end up as condemnation. If only...... It matters not what you have said, frosbel, who may have been misled by your words. Father will take care of it all if you will just return and take hold of His Mercy.

Perhaps I shouldn't care, but I most certainly do. That's why I keep responding even after I say that I will not.

Frosbel, COME HOME.