truthislight:

your ignorance is very big.

This matthew 23:23 is a discussion befor the death of christ and befor the new covanant was started.
That was the old covanant discussion when christ was still alive.

Ofcouse we know that it is the blood of christ that enforce the new covanant that brought an end to the Abrahamic covanant.

It was in the Abrahamic covanant that Tithing was allowed, so, christ was talking on the basis of the old covanant and chestising the pharisees.

So, when Jesus was addressing the pharisees he was talking on the basis of the old covanant and not a command in the NT.

It was christ death/ blood that open/started the new covanant as the bible says.

You are bringing a law of old covanant to the new covanant.

Again, the law on tith are in the OT and clearly spelt out, it is crooks like you that come to the NT to get a justification on tith being money.

That discussion between Jesus and the pharisees, was it base on a law that was given just then or it is an old law?

Why leave where the law was given and desperately take a statement out of context to justify an old law?

That is because Tithing is not a christian law but a Jewish/Israelite law:

"He sheweth his word unto Jacob, his statutes and his judgments unto Israel. He hath not dealt so with any nation: and as for his judgments, they have not known them. Praise ye the LORD." (Psalm 147:19-20).

We are gentiles and not Israelites, and as such, the OT Tithing does not apply to Gentiles. Us.

Again, Tithing command is not given to Christians, but rather, it is put to an end in Hebrews 7.

Wow! Thanks for this... A lot of us didn't understand it this way that Christ was actually talking based on the Old laws, I was meant to believe that this Passage shows that Christ accepted it though he asked for people to do the more important stuff....Love, Mercy..etc. Your post just opened my eyes. Thanks a lot... As Christians is it possible we post without Insults? Thanks and Godbless

Lenny5000:

Wow! Thanks for this... A lot of us didn't understand it this way that Christ was actually talking based on the Old laws, I was meant to believe that this Passage shows that Christ accepted it though he asked for people to do the more important stuff....Love, Mercy..etc. Your post just opened my eyes. Thanks a lot... As Christians is it possible we post without Insults? Thanks and Godbless

It's really heart warming that more and more brethen are having a better understanding of this tithe issue, coming to the knowledge of truth and being release from the shackles of tithes imposed on them by mere men.

Joagbaje: People have always given money as tithe right from bible days

I accosted you over this on another tithing thread a while ago and you just disappeared. Quit spewing this lie every chance you get - provide biblical proof of money presented as tithes in the bible or keep quiet. There's lots of material to twist in support of your tithing scam. This is so not one of them.

Agbaje will continue losing innocents to truth and knowledge! Kudos to those who really took time to explain the truth here! Bernimoore and Truthislight, those were great posts and of course, Pastor_Kuns and Enigma and of course Zikky remain ever cleansing!

Joagbaje and co are a blight, a curse but they are approaching their ends in the decision making process of people

You claim God dislike the unclean things. What about the money acquired at gun point, where a robber killed another to cart away millions and now approach church following sunday for thanksgiving and to pay tithe. Who accepts such money, God or pastor?

nuclearboy: Agbaje will continue losing innocents to truth and knowledge! Kudos to those who really took time to explain the truth here! Bernimoore and Truthislight, those were great posts and of course, Pastor_Kuns and Enigma and of course Zikky remain ever cleansing!

Joagbaje and co are a blight, a curse but they are approaching their ends in the decision making process of people

honestly, may that end comes quickly!

That people no longer depend on them for instructions(deceit)

Pastor Kun:

It's really heart warming that more and more brethen are having a better understanding of this tithe issue, coming to the knowledge of truth and being release from the shackles of tithes imposed on them by mere men.

As the OP I am learning a lot from this thread quiet alright but trust me nobody alive can impose Tithe on me. Though my Pastor believes in Tithe but he rarely preaches it... I had to ask one day if they actually tithe in my Church. My Pastor is a young man about my age, a very friendly guy that works for his Money... He actually adds his personal money to Church stuff when Church money is not enough...so he is not one of those that are after people's money.
Bless

Lenny5000:

As the OP I am learning a lot from this thread quiet alright but trust me nobody alive can impose Tithe on me. Though my Pastor believes in Tithe but he rarely preaches it... I had to ask one day if they actually tithe in my Church. My Pastor is a young man about my age, a very friendly guy that works for his Money... He actually adds his personal money to Church stuff when Church money is not enough...so he is not one of those that are after people's money.
Bless

It is the tithe eaters who gives impression that , a pastor lives by tithe and all he preaches is tithe. Most pastor do their jobs and businesses . And money that men give in church doesn't belong to pastor.

petres_007:

I accosted you over this on another tithing thread a while ago and you just disappeared. Quit spewing this lie every chance you get - provide biblical proof of money presented as tithes in the bible or keep quiet. There's lots of material to twist in support of your tithing scam. This is so not one of them.

I have given enough proof from the bible on this thread. People had the option of giving cash or kind as tithe. In the bible. Read my previous post on this thread

nuclearboy: Agbaje will continue losing innocents to truth and knowledge! Kudos to those who really took time to explain the truth here! Bernimoore and Truthislight, those were great posts and of course, Pastor_Kuns and Enigma and of course Zikky remain ever cleansing!
Joagbaje and co are a blight, a curse but they are approaching their ends in the decision making process of people

Ecclesiastes 10:13
The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.

Where is Newmi to attend to his runaway Bomboy

Lenny5000:

As the OP I am learning a lot from this thread quiet alright but trust me nobody alive can impose Tithe on me. Though my Pastor believes in Tithe but he rarely preaches it... I had to ask one day if they actually tithe in my Church. My Pastor is a young man about my age, a very friendly guy that works for his Money... He actually adds his personal money to Church stuff when Church money is not enough...so he is not one of those that are after people's money.
Bless

the church is still growing.

It is investment time so he has to thread softly.

When he is up and running in thousands of attendees, try talking to him and see how well you will fair.

Joagbaje:

It is the tithe eaters who gives impression that , a pastor lives by tithe and all he preaches is tithe. Most pastor do their jobs and businesses . And money that men give in church doesn't belong to pastor.

but he is a signetary to the account. No?

Joagbaje:

Ecclesiastes 10:13
The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.

Where is Newmi to attend to his runaway Bomboy

@jo

you know nuclear boy knows your girl friend that he said you did that thing with, now you are looking for his trouble he may exposed you in this 2012 o!

Joagbaje:

Ecclesiastes 10:13
The beginning of the words of his mouth is foolishness: and the end of his talk is mischievous madness.

Where is Newmi to attend to his runaway Bomboy

@jo

you know nuclear boy knows your girl friend that he said you did that thing with, now you are looking for his trouble he may exposed you in this 2012 o!

Not really much point bothering about an empty dunce like Agbaje so I won't respond directly! He's just a hungry mongrel who's stayed up late past his bedtime!

What matters is that the ministry of deceit, greed and manipulation he represents is being shown as the fraud it has always been! Fake miracles, dubious motivations and evil theologies - all are now facing the searchlight of truth and falling before light!

Just as your attempts to use Kenyan28 as a prop for your wishywashy sodomite idol have now turned against you, so will the rest of your wickedness fight you in good time!

went through kenya28's profile.. and i'm pretty shocked right now and bitter... really wtf?

@joagbaje

YOU KNOW THAT YOU ARE A FRAUDSTER,THINKING THAT THE BIBLE CAN BE TWISTED,
IF YOU CAN REMEMBER THE LAST TIME I ENGAGE YOU IN A PARTICULAR TREAD ON THIS ISSUE, HERE IS ONE OF YOUR RESPONSE ON 'LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD';

Re: Tithes, Offerings And First Fruits - Do They Apply To Us As Christians? by Joagbaje(m):


Will you nullify the word of God. Before the law there was Melchizedek order. When the law came ,there was levitical order for a period. Many high priest functioned under the order of levitical priest hood. Now that it has ended we are back to Melchizedek order In which Jesus function. that means the Order never ended. It has always been . The levitical was only an intrusion. This is the real order.

YOU CLAIMED THAT THE LEVITICAL PRIESTHOOD 'GODS ARRANGEMENT OF PRIESTHOOD IS AN INTRUSION'
TRUE OR FALSE? YOUR FRAUD HAS REALLY REACHED A HIGHT NOW,AND YOU NEED TO BE BASHED IN EVERY CORNER YHE WAY YOU DIS REGARD GODS ARRANGEMENT.

YOU ARE AN OFFENDER BECAUSE YOU CHOOSE THAT PART OF THE INSTRUCTION OF TITHE TO THE ISREALTES THAT 'IF' THAT IS 'IN AN EVENT' WHERE ONE COULD NOT GIVE LIVESTOCK OR FOOD AS AN OFFERING, YOU CHOOSED TO BE A DEFAULTER PAYING A FINE, ITS A SHAME YOU!

Levitical intrusion??

Just anything to reap off the sheep

Enigma: ^^^ Bros, correct but clarification and amplification as below.

In respect of the tithe of animals and livestock --- cash substitution was NOT acceptable at all. It had to be the tenth animal under the rod or nothing else. That tenth animal could not even be substituted for another one; if there is an attempt to substitute it, then both the original tenth animal and the intended substitute "become holy and cannot be redeemed". (e.g. Pesin wey say ah this number 10 animal na im fat pass and wan substitute am with thin number 11 --- e go lose the two both be that )

With respect to the tithe of agricultural produce, by default they were NOT supposed to be substituted with money. However, allowance was given to substitute with money on the condition of a PENALTY of 20% of the value of the agricultural produce.

The only time that tithe was authorised to be converted to money was when the place to go for worship was too far to carry the agricultural produce and livestock that were the tithes; in that case it was acceptable to sell the "tithes" (livestock and produce) and convert it to money ----- but then the money was not to be given to anyone (whether G.O., pastor, papa, pope or whatever); instead the "tither" was instructed to use the money to buy whatever his heart desired and generally to jollify himself and his family together with widows, orphans aliens etc.

Leviticus 27 (especially the last few verses) and Deuteronomy 14 especially from verse 22.

@JoeAgbaje,

I was just about posting practically this same thing in response to your assertion that Lev 27 (I think it was verse 31), proves that money could be presented in place of tithes. This is outright falsehood. As Enigma has mentioned already, the only time when money was ever mentioned in relation to tithing was with the second tithe, which was eventually eaten by the tither and companions, in Jerusalem. It was never given to the Levites or priests.

Secondly, we need to understand that the meaning and concept of the word "redeem" with relation to the Jews is different from what obtains in our time. The Torah and Tanakh were not written in English or to the English. They were written in Hebrew/Aramaic and directed at the Jews! SO if we're going to understand what the bible means by "redeeming" the tithe, dictionaries wouldn't be very helpful. Finding out how the Jews understood, interpreted and practiced it will. See this:

The "Second Tithe," which must be consumed by its owners in Jerusalem, is briefly mentioned -- as well as the rules for redeeming this tithe if it is too burdensome to transport to Jerusalem.

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/512591/jewish/Aliya-Summary.htm

Jewish tradition has it that "redeeming" one's second tithe meant that if it is too much to bring all the tithe (agricultural produce) to Jerusalem, you leave it at home and take the money equivalent plus 20% of the value. You then take that money to Jerusalem and buy food there - which you eat in a state of ritual purity as if you were eating the actual stuff.

The money was never given to anyone (preist, levite, GO, MoG, pastor etc.), but used to buy food and eaten as part of celebrations in Jerusalem.

you guys are going too far, was is Gods original instruction,let me ask again, did God value your tithe more than his strict instruction? no, if you must redeem,it must go with a fine! which means that you are an offender,this is Gods possition,read;

1 samuel 15:22; Behold, to obey is better than sacrifice,
And to heed than the fat of rams.

joagbaje even under the old law 'choose to be an offender' paying fine with cash redeem! oleeee!

Malachi 3:10 read again pls;

''Bring all the tithes into the storehouse,
That there may be [size=18pt]food[/size] in My house'',

'storehouse' is not church pls

'food' is not cash, the original instruction is 'food'

truthislight:

the church is still growing.

It is investment time so he has to thread softly.

When he is up and running in thousands of attendees, try talking to him and see how well you will fair.

I said he is my friend, meaning I know him... He said he has asked God not to make him a Pastor if he will depend on people's money... He is too ambitious to even eye another source of money than the one he makes himself.. He is that rare type that can starve to Death than inconvenient you for a loaf of bread. He is like that. He actually raised up one of the Biggest mixed church here and he never for once look into the Finance or got a single Cent from church...cos that's not where his mind is... I once told him about a topic I had with some Nigerians "If you have money to save a person and that same money is your tithe money what would you do... most people said they would pay their tithe"... When I told him, he said those people dont know GOD, that before anything GOD is first LOVE

I said he is my friend, meaning I know him... He said he has asked God not to make him a Pastor if he will depend on people's money... He is too ambitious to even eye another source of money than the one he makes himself.. He is that rare type that can starve to Death than inconvenient you for a loaf of bread. He is like that. He actually raised up one of the Biggest mixed church here and he never for once look into the Finance or got a single Cent from church...cos that's not where his mind is... I once told him about a topic I had with some Nigerians "If you have money to save a person and that same money is your tithe money what would you do... most people said they would pay their tithe"... When I told him, he said those people dont know GOD, that before anything GOD is first LOVE

bros, you are not joagbaje, pls stop speaking on his behalf,stop selling him,let him talk on his own! OK? he is a fraud, and b4 i conclude on that,i have been on the same tread running up to 25 pages and another up to 30 pages on nairaland,and so since you are not him,stop selling him,im suspecting a foul play here!

The most controversial issue in mordern christianity is the issue of tithing. Many pay tithes without really knowing what it is meant for, many also collect tithes without knowing what they are to use it for. I have made a small research strictly from the bible to get the origin and use of tithes. As a guide, the bible reference relating to each paragraph is listed at the end of the paragraph.

Tithe is the tenth of of outputs of the people of Isreal is to be given to the children of levi who dedicate their whole lives for service in the house of God. Because they have no right of inheritance in Isreal (they cant own land, oxen, sheep etc.), they are essentially collectors of the tithe and not the owners. They had to also pay their own tithe being a tenth of all the tithe collected. This is mainly for accounting purposes: It is done in order to quantify the job done by the levites. They are to offer that tithe which has been given unto them as their heave offering to Aaron the priest. Heave offering are considered to be offerings to God mainly eaten from by the priests and the Levites. (ref: Numbers 18:21-28). Before we continue with the usage of tithe as it is recorded in the scripture, we need to be reminded of the exit of the Isrealites from Egypt as they were led out by Moses. They sojourned for forty years in the wilderness. They were on their way to the Land that God had promised them. The origin of tithe was to build a reserve that would help them as a people to settle in the Land of Judea which God had promised them. This ascertion isvevident in the several counsels in the scripture where it is said that they will use the tithe in the Land where God had chosen for them.

Things that the Isrealites brought in prepartion for this new Land included Tithes, heave offering, sacrifices, free will offerings and burnt offerrings. Of all the categories, it was tithe that had a specific quantity and is compulsory for all who produce on the Lands either herds, oils, corn etc. As stated earlier even the Levites' tithe was quantified from the much they collected. Tithes were to be used by the children of Isreal rejoicing in what the Lord has given them i.e the New Cities of Judea. This was to be done in a place where the Lord had given the children of isreal their Land (Judea). They were warned not to use the contributions until they get their destination. It mentioned those to partake in the usage of tithes/offerings as: ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates. It is obvious from this that Isreal was using the offerrings/tithes in order to build a wealth for the nation which they were to posses in the future. It should be noted that the book of Deuteronomy is regard as the second book of the law for the Isrealites. It was preapring them for the task ahead of them in the promised land. (Deuteronomy 12:6-17) If the tithe is too heavy to be carried, it should be converted to money and the money taken to the chosen place of the Lord. The money will be used gotten will be used by the children of isreal for anything that they wish to use it for: And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou and thine household. (Deuteronomy 14:22-28) The Isrealites were constantly reminded of the people who are to partake as: The Levite, stranger, the fatherless, and the widow may eat and be filled. (Deuteronomy 26:1-12)

Deuteronomy as we noted was a book of expected behaviour while Chronicles is a factual account. Chronicles, it is seen that the people of Isreal had reached their Land of Promise i.e. Cities of Judah. There, everyone gathered all the tithe and offerrings and the things that have been consecreted to the Lord. It took them 4months to gather them in heaps. This was presented to Hezekiah and the princes. It was organised by the priests and the Levites. When asked about it, they said people brought them and they had eaten and had their filled. Hezekiah then ordered that they should put them in stores. The store was to be mannes by Connoniah the Levite and Simei was his assistant. Here, a factual account is given of how the tithes/offerings were gathered. It is evident that many people kept their tithes at home and only brought them out when it was requested. It may also be that it was brought in by the Levites who may have been safe-keeping them. A point of note here it was the first time that Hezekiah saw the kind of heap of food gathered. It was also then that he requested a store to be prepared to keep the left overs. It was only then also that he appointed people to take care of the store. This confirms that throughout their journey, they were gathering the tithes/offerings for use in the distant land where the Lord had promised. (2 Chronicles 31:5-12)

Because of the successes gained as described above, tithing and offertory became the practice in Isreal. The practice continued to be that the Levites do not have an inheritance and are not expected to have an inheritance so they were made to collect the tithe under the supervision of the priest and they are to put it in the store which was mentioned in the previous paragraphs. To be administered and used by the people of isreal as mentioned already. This practice continued to the time of Jesus. At some point in time, the practice of issuance from the stock was defiled. For example, the Levites at a point were not given their portions by those Levites who where in charge of sharing of the things in the store. This made some levites to go back to tilt the land for a livelihood against their original purpose. Nehemiah made some reshufflements in the cabinet in order to preserve the essence of the Levites. The abuse of tithes is not a new thing. Malachi was also a Levi and decried that he will bear witness against those who defraud the poor, the widows and the strangers. This is in relation to the storehouse mentioned earlier especially for those that are contributing the tithes and other offerings. He said that wrong doers will be put on trial because they "deprive laborers of their wages, they oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice,”. It should be understood that the levites were were primarily civil servants, readers of the books of the law, teachers of the law, gate-keepers, singers etc. And their wages are paid from the tithes/offerrings. Here Malachy decries the that people do not pay their tithes and offerings which forms the stock of store. He calls this wrong as robbing God as it is from where the widows, the poor, ophans are fed. He furthet encouraged the Isrealites to bring their tithes and their offerings so that there may be food in the house of the Lord. This He said He will send his blessings so that they will have much more. (Malachi 3:9-11)

Conclusion: The new testament did not encourage payment of tithe. It condemned the Pharasees for bragging about their payment of tithe and not obeying the other laws. He said wore unto them. In todays world, pastors and men of God should be careful when they call for tithes. Tithes are meant, as we have seen, for the beterment of the entirety of the widows, ophans, priests, church workers. It is also meant to provide for education of the people and provision of food and and health care. The closest of the contemporary item to tithe is the tax that we pay monthly which Gvernment uses to care for people. If you evade tax payment, be sure that God will hold you responibles for the less priviledged. If you are a government official and you mis-use taxpayers funds, God will hod you responsible. If you collect tithes and you dont remit as was done in Isreal, God will hold you responsible. The decision is yours.

You may wish to send me your private comments in my mail dgdatong@yahoo.com or dgdatong@gmail.com (Sorry for the wrong tenses and spellings. I cant edit)

They substituted agricultural products for money. Just so they could buy private jets.
Lalasticlala
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