For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven - Religion (3) - Nairaland
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| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by truthislight: 5:21pm On Nov 16, 2012 |
Dr young: I pray through Jesus and believe in love your neighbour. But you do not get to decide what is satanic or not cos you are not the great judge. Leave the catholics alone. Meanwhile do you believe everything in the bible? yes i believe every thing in the bible!  |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by plappville(f): 6:12pm On Nov 16, 2012 |
alexleo: [b][/b] They will fight you with thier last strenght that all that you stated here are false. Anyway, i see you point. I'm not surprise, anyone who truelly seek God with a sincere loving heart will not welcome most of Catholic doctrines. That is a bitter truth! |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Nobody: 6:49pm On Nov 16, 2012 |
truthislight: It is not their fault; it's that strong delusion that the Bible talks about! Smh 2Thessalonians 2:11-12 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: 12That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 9:27pm On Nov 16, 2012 |
truthislight: The fact that the word "Catholic" was not in the Bible does not mean that The early Church was not Catholic. Otherwise, you would also say that the Bible is not scripture because the word "Bible" is not in the Bible. Do you see the uselessness of that kind of reasoning. It was the same Church that named itself "Catholic" that selected the Scripture they wanted and called it "Bible." truthislight: What has that to do with the apostles? The apostles were the first leaders of the Church which was later called Catholic to distinguish it from heretical groups. truthislight: Keep deceiving yourself. This is just a blind accusation without proof. truthislight: The NT are the words and writtings of the apostles, what has that to do with RCC "gave us the NT" (bible) ? How do you know that Mark wrote "Mark" and Luke wrote "Luke" and they were inspired by the Holy Spirit? This is the second time I'm asking you this simple question. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 6:24am On Nov 17, 2012 |
Enigma: ^^^ And that "Catholic Church" is to be distinguished from the Roman Catholic Church. The people whose works helped the most to shape the New Testament Canon were NOT Roman Catholic; most of them were from places like Alexandria, Antioch, Hippo etc e.g. Origen, Athanasius, Augustine etc. That would mean that I, a Nigerian Catholic, am not "Roman Catholic" as you choose to call it. When the term "Roman Catholic" is used within the Catholic Church (and it isn't frequently used), we are only trying to indicate our adherence and submission to the Bishop of Rome... And all these people you mentioned did submit to the Authority of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope). So they were part of The Catholic Church, just like me, no matter where they were from. At the time the New Testament was established, the term "Roman Catholic" was not in use. All were part of The Catholic Church under the authority of The Pope. Enigma: A little more of both clarity and honesty is required in relation to what is meant by the "Catholic Church". In your errorneous and dubious opinion. This is what the Anglicans claimed in originating and promoting the term "Roman Catholic." They claimed this just to falsely legitimize their abomination when King Henry VIII broke off from The Catholic Church and established The Anglican Church only so he could get away with adultery. They claimed there were a part of the Catholic Church and that the "Roman Catholic Church" was only a branch of the Catholic Church. When the Catholic Church used the term "Roman Catholic Church," it always meant "Catholic Church." One question: what was the name of the Church that the Lutherans and Anglicans broke from at the time? |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Nobody: 6:37am On Nov 17, 2012 |
truthislight:Good for you but not everybody believes it. I pick the good ones only. Why not keep our opinions to ourselves!? Many churches are springing up everywhere because of their own varied interpretations of the bible. Stick to your version and leave this people be.( why would the people that compiled it sometimes be practising another thing, Pls don't say they didn't cos they did compiled the bible maybe there is something they are not telling us) my opinion though. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Enigma(m): 8:02am On Nov 17, 2012 |
italo: That would mean that I, a Nigerian Catholic, am not "Roman Catholic" as you choose to call it. When the term "Roman Catholic" is used within the Catholic Church (and it isn't frequently used), we are only trying to indicate our adherence and submission to the Bishop of Rome... To knowledgeable people: (a) saying 'Nigerian Catholic' is an oxymoron; (b) indeed even saying 'Roman Catholic' is an oxymoron. We simply let the Roman Catholics get away with calling themselves Roman Catholic because it is not worthwhile arguing with them over their choice to call themselves by such an oxymoron. italo: And all these people you mentioned did submit to the Authority of the Bishop of Rome (the Pope). So they were part of The Catholic Church, just like me, no matter where they were from. At the time the New Testament was established, the term "Roman Catholic" was not in use. All were part of The Catholic Church under the authority of The Pope. This is a spin, in fact a lie, that Roman Catholics like to peddle. I have dealt with it on other threads already, especially https://www.nairaland.com/1039359/canon-bible-roman-catholic-church and https://www.nairaland.com/1083381/apostle-peter-principle-inclusivity-via When Roman Catholics peddle this line they usually keep quiet about what they mean by the "authority" of the "Pope". Knowledgeable people know that the earliest Roman Catholic "popes" and the better/sounder Roman Catholic "popes" did not claim to have any such "authority". Secondly, apart from the Roman Church through the power-mongering "popes", the other parts of the early church did not see the Roman "popes" as having "authority". Instead, what they accepted was that the Roman See had a particular position of honour; to them the Roman See only had a primacy of honour BUT was otherwise equal with the other primary Sees. For that matter, well before the Roman Catholics were calling their bishops "popes", the Eastern Churches had already been referring to their bishops as "popes". So, it was not even the Roman Catholic Church that coined the word "pope". In the same way it was not the Roman Catholics who coined the word "catholic"; rather it was the Eastern Church at Antioch that coined the word "catholic" and they did not mean by "catholic" what the Roman Catholics have now turned it into. And of course it was mostly people from these other Sees, and not Roman Catholics, who largely shaped the New Testament canon.  The only reason that the Roman Catholics get away with a lot of historical falsehoods is that people in these parts of the world and people outside the Eastern Orthodox Churches are largely ignorant of the real facts. italo: In your errorneous and dubious opinion. This is what the Anglicans claimed in originating and promoting the term "Roman Catholic." They claimed this just to falsely legitimize their abomination when King Henry VIII broke off from The Catholic Church and established The Anglican Church only so he could get away with adultery. They claimed there were a part of the Catholic Church and that the "Roman Catholic Church" was only a branch of the Catholic Church. When the Catholic Church used the term "Roman Catholic Church," it always meant "Catholic Church." The simple way to answer you here is to point out to you that the current "pope" Benedict calls the Roman Catholic Church, well erm, the Roman Catholic Church. He has done so in very recent and very important documents. Other "popes" (including the last two, I believe) did the same and other popes have done so historically. Other Vatican documents do the same. So, yes the Roman Catholic Church calls itself, well, the Roman Catholic Church.The attempt to use style to now refer to the Roman Catholic Church as "The Catholic Church" is effectively an attempt at usurpation and essentially a fraud.  italo: One question: what was the name of the Church that the Lutherans and Anglicans broke from at the time? The Anglicans and the Lutherans broke away from the Church of Rome aka the Roman Catholic Church! They did not break away from the catholic Church.  2 Likes |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Boomark(m): 8:24am On Nov 17, 2012 |
frosbel: Beware !!! That is why the advice is not a good one. What it should have been is "pick race/run before it is too late." |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Boomark(m): 8:54am On Nov 17, 2012 |
Early church everywhere! There is an early church that Christ said He will vomit out of His mouth, Rev 3:14-18. If an early church starts practicing evil, He will vomit it and choose a new one. If an israelite rejects Christ, he will chose a gentile. Being an early church is not a guarantee that it is close to Christ. Old and new can be vomited depending on their deeds. So don't be deceived by earliness or lateness. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 9:14am On Nov 17, 2012 |
Enigma: Bros, if we are speaking of the catholic Church, then it is very simple and we know it from two important sources, one human and one divine. Enigma. Is it that you have been fooled by the lies of protestantism or you are just as dubious as they are? You picked just one phrase in Chapter 8 of a 13-Chapter letter which St. Ignatius wrote to the Smyrnaeans. Now let us look into Chapter 8 and see if Ignatius meant what you say he means. "See that you all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery as you would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church. It is not lawful without the bishop either to baptize or to celebrate a love-feast; but whatsoever he shall approve of, that is also pleasing to God, so that everything that is done may be secure and valid." Do you see what Ignatius is stressing from the beginning of the Chapter to the end? FOLLOWING THE BISHOP and the clergy... And he doesn't mean 'follow him from place to place", he means obey him; don't do anything without his approval. He gives examples: "As Christ follows the Father", "As you would follow the Apostles." And when he says "Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church," he means The Catholic Church always follows Christ's commands, as he expects the multitude to obey the Bishop. Furthermore, he rubishes your claim that The Catholic Church is present anywhere two or three are gathered in Jesus name by making reference to the structure of The Catholic Church - "bishops", "priests", "deacons". "Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Let that be deemed a proper Eucharist, which is [administered] either by the bishop, or by one to whom he has entrusted it." My good friend, Enigma. Your dear St. Ignatius doesn't think The Catholic Church is where two or three are gathered. You are WRONG. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Enigma(m): 9:18am On Nov 17, 2012 |
^^^ You can put whatever spin you like on it but the fact is that (a) Ignatius said where Jesus is there is the "catholic" i.e. the universal Church* (b) Jesus said 'where two or three are gathered together in my name, there I am in the midst of them' Well, it is not difficult to put 2 and 2 together . . . . *The other first part of that his statement was simply calling the members of each church assembly to unite to their bishops ---- not some monolithic "structure" as such. And yes, his conception of "catholic" encompasses unity but sees each church under its bishop as complete and part of the universal i.e. the catholic Church. 1 Like |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 9:54am On Nov 17, 2012 |
@ Enigma, I see! You love St. Ignatius' letter so much, but only one phrase of it. The phrase you can easily twist to be what you want it to be without looking at the broader context of what your dear Saint is talking about. You don't believe any other part of his letter. Perhaps you might also be of the opinion that we should cut off our body parts if they cause us to sin, because Jesus says so. You're just as hypocritical as the rest of them. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Enigma(m): 9:55am On Nov 17, 2012 |
^^^ Thank you. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 9:59am On Nov 17, 2012 |
@ Enigma, I see! You love St. Ignatius' letter so much, but only one phrase of it. The phrase you can easily twist to be what you want it to be without looking at the broader context of what your dear Saint is talking about. How can two or three gathered be the Catholic Church when Ignatius says do nothing without the approval of your Bishop. Which Bishop approved the two or three gathered at Synagogue, RCCG, Christ Embassy, etc? But shamefully, you don't believe any other part of his letter. Perhaps you might also be of the opinion that we should cut off our body parts if they cause us to sin, because Jesus says so. You're just as hypocritical as the rest of them. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by alexleo(m): 10:08am On Nov 17, 2012 |
italo: @ Enigma, I pity your soul that is being deceived with the rubbish they feed you people in your catholic church. 1 Like |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Boomark(m): 10:32am On Nov 17, 2012 |
italo: @ Enigma, |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Boomark(m): 10:38am On Nov 17, 2012 |
italo: @ Enigma, If only catholics will wait for Christ approval as they do for their Bishop, they wount be making idols and bowing to it. They wount be praying to Mary. They would have waited for Him to give them go ahead order. 1 Like |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by truthislight: 10:44am On Nov 17, 2012 |
italo: those that have eyes can see that the bible writers mention their names in the books. Mark and acts are history, hebrews is written by paul but did not mention it because of it content, putting an end mosaic law and the jews would have killed whoever did that. But the person that he sent it to will sure know who sent it to him and would passed it along. How can you say that RCC wrote the bible when the names of the writers are contained in majority of the books and all completed in the 1st century "ce"? The apostles all died of in the 1ce. The OT was written by prophet, judges, kings and livites. But the teaching of the NT is an exclusive of christ apostles, this is the brainwash that you received that that RCC wrote the bible that will soon lead you to say that there is no God. The "word" bible means little books and that is because the books of the bible are little "66" books in number, but the issue here is not the name the bible is called but the writers of the NT bible. Even if you change the name to "holy book" it does note change who the writers are. The name that the followers of CHRIST are called is christians and it means followers of christ, what has a coined word "catholic" has to do with followers of christ? If you are deceived, we are not deceived. 1 Like |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by truthislight: 10:47am On Nov 17, 2012 |
Dr young: Good for you but not everybody believes it. I pick the good ones only. Why not keep our opinions to ourselves!? Many churches are springing up everywhere because of their own varied interpretations of the bible. Stick to your version and leave this people be.( why would the people that compiled it sometimes be practising another thing, Pls don't say they didn't cos they did compiled the bible maybe there is something they are not telling us) my opinion though. the RCC did not write the bible. The NT are writings of the apostles of christ. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 1:38pm On Nov 17, 2012 |
alexleo: Hypocrite. You don't pity Enigma who cited one line from St. Ignatius' letter, you pity me who cited the whole chapter. You who could answer a simple question on your church are here condemning The Catholic Church. Can the Apostolic Faith Church be possibly wrong in any of its teachings on faith and morals? A. YES, they can be wrong. B. NO, they can never be wrong. Answer it here or go and answer in that thread. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Nobody: 2:14pm On Nov 17, 2012 |
truthislight:who compiled it then? Pls if it is them,give them credit. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by Nobody: 4:19pm On Nov 17, 2012 |
Dr young: who compiled it then? Pls if it is them,give them credit. Compiling it and writing it are two different things. If at all they compiled it, then new generation Catholics should use & practise it too instead of giving more attentions to unscriptural Church doctrines like worshipping the image of Mary. If the scriptures supports such, It would have been prophesied & written all over the Bible! I have never come across where the Bible prophesy about MARIAN APPARITION! So, why do Catholic respects it even more than what the Bible says? |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by alexleo(m): 10:51pm On Nov 17, 2012 |
italo: I ve already answered you in that thread and the answer is NO we cant be wrong because our teachings are bible based. I dont care about your Ignatius. I care about Jesus and the bible. Am not also condemning Ignatius. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by alexleo(m): 10:59pm On Nov 17, 2012 |
truthislight: Truth and nothing but the truth. |
| Re: For Catholics Who Really Wants To Make Heaven by italo: 1:07pm On Nov 18, 2012 |
@ alexleo & truthislight, Who compiled the Bible and gave it the name "Bible?" Who decided that "the Gospel according to Barnabas" is not scripture but "the Gospel according to Mark" is scripture? How do you know that Mark and Luke were written by Mark and Luke and that they were inspired? In what verse is that written in the Bible? Please answer these three questions honestly and don't do your usual hypocritical merry-go-round. |
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