Logicboy03:
Morsi? How befitting

. . . . MORSIkinatu and MORSIlatunji . . . Yes, seeing as they are the self-styled Pharoahs on the fate of Islamic topics that point out certain aspects of or question Islam on NL!

BTW, When are you going to put the average Nairaland atheist into the comparison? We cannot have you MORSIlising the atheists out of the religious comparison! ... and don't tell me atheism isn't a religion or a belief!

Sweetnecta: i wonder how Islam is modifying itself in the west? is there a verse changed from the original or abrogated in the west while in the east you ill find it as it was originally?

if i buy a middle size pizza from Papa John because there were just 3 of us that were going to eat it while watching New England patriot being crushed by New York giants the crust sliced in six pieces from the store. If by the time the delivery knocked, 2 other friends showed up, make us 5 people to munch on this pizza now. is there anything wrong if we take a pizza cutter and make 6 slices into slices where if we are to have equal amount each will have 1/5 of the pie, instead when each of the original 3 will have a 1/3. since we had 6 slices before, what is normal is that we can slice each slice into 5 smaller slices and each takes a slice from each new 5 slices fro each of the 6 original or we can just take 1 slice each of the original 6 and the 6th slice divide it equally into 5 smaller sizes as the last portion for each of us. That is equity.

if on the other hand, there are beautiful women among us who eat like birds, you can expect them to less than their husbands. lets say the husbands eat double what they women eat. We know that women will still make men pay.

This is the reality of life. and since one person paid for the pizza, what everyone else got in portion is a freebee.

this is what inheritance is and it distribution because the total is always a whole pie. slicing is is distributing it appropriately according to position, gender and group. but it is always a freebee.



2) Female children are guaranteed to be cheatedfemale children are retired even before they started any job. they are wards of their father, maybe their brothers, but definitely their husbands. even if you become a neurosurgeon, you may decide not to do anything. how is she cheated when somebody is paying through the noses to upkeep her?



3) Forces a man to share his money which might not be according to his willmen take it as badge of honor to care for their women folks. I do. I dislike any of my women to work.

Look, it hurts me to argue with you. You seem like a honest and cool guy compared to some of your fellow muslims that are like animals.

Your arguments have holes. If the Quran was perfect as you say, you wouldnt have to write biographies just to defend simple problems.


If the numbers do not add up, then the division or sharing scheme is nonsense. Simple.

If you assume that women will always need less than men, you are a sexist.

What makes you think that all women dont want to work? My mum would be twice your age and she still works for the dignity of labour. I thank Allah that she would never have the mentality of any woman you have control over.

This got me wondering as to whether I'm just an average Christian.

seyibrown:

. . . . MORSIkinatu and MORSIlatunji . . . Yes, seeing as they are the self-styled Pharoahs on the fate of Islamic topics that point out certain aspects of or question Islam on NL!

BTW, When are you going to put the average Nairaland atheist into the comparison? We cannot have you MORSIlising the atheists out of the religious comparison! ... and don't tell me atheism isn't a religion or a belief!

Good question. Coupled with the fact that atheism is a religion and atheists like logicboy like to deny this.

@logicboy

when you find allegations against the Qur'an, you ought to do a little reasearch before you begin to parrot it and embarrass yourself.

1- the numbers add up!

2- i already told that women get half what men get is only 1/4 true:

F00028:
that's only 1/4 true there are other instances when:
-they inherit as much as men,
-they inherit more than men, and
-they inherit while men don't

and i gave you an example:

F00028:
A BIG FAT LIE!!!
e.g:if a person dies leaving one full sister and three half-brothers (by the father), the full sister gets half the inheritance, and the other half is distributed equally among the three half- brothers.

https://www.nairaland.com/1076844/africans-confused/1#12612258

Look, it hurts me to argue with you. You seem like a honest and cool guy compared to some of your fellow muslims that are like animals.

Chapter 4 verses 4 to 10 of the Quran speaks about giving and gifts of the estates of the deceased including the role of the executrix and how the portion of the estate can extend to families and even the poor who are not blood related. I doubt that should be be spoken of to those who are not familiar with it by a single liner.

Your arguments have holes

has holes like quadratic equation or any formula where on casual look by untrained eyes in complex problem, there is always a no solution.

If the Quran was perfect as you say, you wouldnt have to write biographies just to defend simple problems.

Allah proposed so many forms of situations. each form stands on its own. i am assuming you do not have problem with where you think a form is clear? your problem however is when you have a situation wherein many forms are together present in the "situation'. it reminds me of math problems where there are multiple unknowns and they occur in different values in more than one formula. How do you combine two formulas to arrive at the value of each unknown so much accurately that if you were to plug them into the original formula, they will fit and work without fail. try multiple variable equations math problem for size.

If the numbers do not add up, then the division or sharing scheme is nonsense. Simple.

thing we know in the sharing of estate is the value of the estate. so when it is a simple formula as God has stated in each of the situation, you do not have problem with it. But you have problem when you have multiple formulas. but you are not being a progressive thinker if you fail to realize that two issues are here, first the estate cant suddenly become larger or smaller. secondly, no one of the beneficiaries will go away without receiving something, which in essence is addition to what they had before the distribution.

the issue now is to ask you again, if we are to share 5 oranges between 10 people, shouldnt 1 orange be shared by 2 people? if suddenly we have 3 more people to share the same amount of oranges, should it be a viable solution that we peel all the 10 oranges, break them into individual peels where we can now count the many peels and share are close to equality as possible, since no one is willing to take less?

my wife makes plenty of money and never at anytime i asked her what she does with her money where they are kept or what they are spent on. if she needs an advise, the moment she asked, i give. as a husband, it is my duty to provide 100% for her and i do not double dutch. this is my islam.

here is a problem solved by Ali bin Abitalib [ra]: a man left 17 camels. he requested the a particular son be given 50%. another 2/3 of the first and the last 1/3 of the 2nd. The problem is how do you get 50% of 17 without killing any animal? if the major portion is impossible, then the rest below it cant hold through, similar to things fall apart.

But God is Merciful to the muslim community and the commander of the faithful Ali [ra] summoned that they bring one of his own camels. He added to to the 17 making it 18 hence division. he gave the guy for 50% 9, the guy that will receive 2/3 of the first 6 camels and the guy that will get 1/3 of the 2nd guy 2 camels. Add them together you will get 17, the amount of the estate. Ali [ra] took back his original camel back. If this much knowledge is in Islam, now how difficult is it to share the wealth of a deceased?

let me talk about the estate of my late father [ra]. Many of us did not take anything for whatever reasons. Relationship is fostered in Islam for the pleasure of God. hence, a good believer will gladly accept what he is given and continue doing any good he can do, including being responsible for his sisters, still.

If you assume that women will always need less than men, you are a sexist.[/ quote]sexist dont allow his women folks to have a full life. I take care of my women folks as God demands and I am in defense of those in my ward. I do not run under the bed when i think there is an intruder, but gets up and be ready to take whatever as long as my women are protected.


[quote]What makes you think that all women dont want to work? My mum would be twice your age and she still works for the dignity of labour.

your mother cant be twice my age and still hold down a job. impossible. not all people want to engage in manual labor which is the reason you have business owners so that they employ those who want to work.

I thank Allah that she would never have the mentality of any woman you have control over.

i may be older than your mother.


below is individual formulas. thinking people will simply combine the formulas applicable in the situation to arrive at the formula for that solution so that each person gets what is the aggregated benefit relevant

verses 11 and 12 of chapter 4 of the Quran explaining each simple situation an you may thereby combine situations to solve complex situation:

Allah instructs you concerning your children: for the male, what is equal to the share of two females.

But if there are [only] daughters, two or more, for them is two thirds of one's estate.

And if there is only one, for her is half.

And for one's parents, to each one of them is a sixth of his estate if he left children.

But if he had no children and the parents [alone] inherit from him, then for his mother is one third.

And if he had brothers [or sisters], for his mother is a sixth, after any bequest he [may have] made or debt.

Your parents or your children - you know not which of them are nearest to you in benefit. [These shares are] an obligation [imposed] by Allah . Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.



And for you is half of what your wives leave if they have no child.

But if they have a child, for you is one fourth of what they leave, after any bequest they [may have] made or debt.

And for the wives is one fourth if you leave no child.

But if you leave a child, then for them is an eighth of what you leave, after any bequest you [may have] made or debt.

And if a man or woman leaves neither ascendants nor descendants but has a brother or a sister, then for each one of them is a sixth.

But if they are more than two, they share a third, after any bequest which was made or debt, as long as there is no detriment [caused]. [This is] an ordinance from Allah , and Allah is Knowing and Forbearing.

Uyi Iredia:

Good question. Coupled with the fact that atheism is a religion and atheists like logicboy like to deny this.

Atheism is a religion? Havent you received enough abuse because of your ignorance?


Are you proud of being ignorant?

F00028: @logicboy

when you find allegations against the Qur'an, you ought to do a little reasearch before you begin to parrot it and embarrass yourself.

1- the numbers add up!

2- i already told that women get half what men get is only 1/4 true:

and i gave you an example:

https://www.nairaland.com/1076844/africans-confused/1#12612258

You have to play the strawman of step brothers to make sisters equal? Dont you feel foolish?


The only time that women get equal share is when they have step bros? So the sisters are not equal to their full brothers? Retardeen logic!




Furthermore, the numbers do not add up from the Quran. Even muslims agree on this one. It is as simple as googling this fact. The Hadith and other sharia injuctions (from where?) have to be used to make the numbers add up in certain cases

Logicboy03:
You have to play the strawman of step brothers to make sisters equal? Dont you feel foolish?

The only time that women get equal share is when they have step bros? So the sisters are not equal to their full brothers? Retardeen logic!

she's still a FEMALE ! she can get the same, she can get more, or even inherit when males get nothing.

Logicboy03:
Furthermore, the numbers do not add up from the Quran. Even muslims agree on this one. It is as simple as googling this fact. The Hadith and other sharia injuctions (from where?) have to be used to make the numbers add up in certain cases

like when?

F00028:
she's still a FEMALE ! she can get the same, she can get more, or even inherit when males get nothing.

Brother and sister are not equal in islamic inheritance. End of story

F00028:
like when?

And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. If a man dies and leaves three daughters, his two parents and his wife then they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the estate available.

A second example is, that when a man leaves only his other, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property

Logicboy03:
Morsi? How befitting

. . . . MORSIkinatu and MORSIlatunji . . . Yes, seeing as they are the self-styled Pharoahs on the fate of Islamic topics that point out certain aspects of or question Islam on NL!

BTW, When are you going to put the average Nairaland atheist into the comparison? We cannot have you MORSIlising the atheists out of the religious comparison! ... and don't tell me atheism isn't a religion or a belief!

------------------
Waiting ....

seyibrown:

. . . . MORSIkinatu and MORSIlatunji . . . Yes, seeing as they are the self-styled Pharoahs on the fate of Islamic topics that point out certain aspects of or question Islam on NL!

BTW, When are you going to put the average Nairaland atheist into the comparison? We cannot have you MORSIlising the atheists out of the religious comparison! ... and don't tell me atheism isn't a religion or a belief!

------------------
Waiting ....

1) Atheism is not a religion

stop it please! you're embarrassing yourself

Logicboy03:
And it just doesn't add up: Sura 4:11-12 and 4:176 state the Qur'anic inheritance law. If a man dies and leaves three daughters, his two parents and his wife then they will receive the respective shares of 2/3 for the 3 daughters together, 1/3 for the parents together [both according to verse 4:11] and 1/8 for the wife [4:12] which adds up to more than the estate available.

A second example is, that when a man leaves only his other, his wife and two sisters, then they receive 1/3 [mother, 4:11], 1/4 [wife, 4:12] and 2/3 [the two sisters, 4:176], which again adds up to 15/12 of the available property

first example:
4:11 deals with the case of a man who leaves behind one child. in your example you have three daughters. so the provision doesn't apply

second example:
4:176 the allotment here apllies where a man leaves neither parent nor offspring. here you have a mother. thus if you use 4:176 in this case it'll only show your ignorance.

The slaves of allah are here again with their koran is perfect nonsense. . .. If it's perfect, why have generation after generation who have been steeped on it and fully applies its principles and laws not built perfect societies through its teachings? And why are there so many errors, contradictions and absurdities in it? And why does it need to be reinterpreted most of the time?. . .make wuna carry go jare. . .

F00028: stop it please! you're embarrassing yourself

first example:
4:11 deals with the case of a man who leaves behind one child. in your example you have three daughters. so the provision doesn't apply

second example:
4:176 the allotment here apllies where a man leaves neither parent nor offspring. here you have a mother. thus if you use 4:176 in this case it'll only show your ignorance.

What nonsense are you talking about? So you now apply and dont apply wherever you want?


Commot for road

Logicboy03:
What nonsense are you talking about? So you now apply and dont apply wherever you want?...

we apply where applicable and dont apply where not applicable.
how difficult is that?

part of your problem, logicboy is intellectual lethargy. you just parrot, whatever charge you hear against Islam without any further research.

otherwise, you would have known that whoever came up with those examples as proof of some numerical inconsistencies was actually ignorant of islamic laws of succession.

mazaje: The slaves of allah are here again with their koran is perfect nonsense. . .. If it's perfect, why have generation after generation who have been steeped on it and fully applies its principles and laws not built perfect societies through its teachings? And why are there so many errors, contradictions and absurdities in it? And why does it need to be reinterpreted most of the time?. . .make wuna carry go jare. . .

me i no too like background noise. person go just siddon for one corner dey yarn anyhow.

wetin be "so many errors, contradictions and absurdities" ? make you begin dey list am one by one make i see.

(just to be clear: shey you be pagan, ba?)

F00028:
we apply where applicable and dont apply where not applicable.
how difficult is that?

part of your problem, logicboy is intellectual lethargy. you just parrot, whatever charge you hear against Islam without any further research.

otherwise, you would have known that whoever came up with those examples as proof of some numerical inconsistencies was actually ignorant of islamic laws of succession.

Nonsense.....I cant be bothered to argue with you today. Even islamic sources concede this and use Hadith to complete rulings on inheritance


I will address this topic later with brute froce

F00028:

me i no too like background noise. person go just siddon for one corner dey yarn anyhow.

wetin be "so many errors, contradictions and absurdities" ? make you begin dey list am one by one make i see.

(just to be clear: shey you be pagan, ba?)

Which one be pagan?

tpia1: some muslims are intellectuals.

there's just not many of them on nl, and the few who are, have to keep quiet for the sake of peace.

[i suppose].

Muslim intellectuals don't have time for noise making - have you ever asked why it looks like there are more Christians in south west than muslims?

Logicboy03:


Nonsense.....I cant be bothered to argue with you today. Even islamic sources concede this and use Hadith to complete rulings on inheritance


I will address this topic later with brute froce

just bring it!

Logicboy03:
From my discussions in nairaland;
-There are some few christians that accept civil unions for gays. Hardly any muslim I know has supported this

Guy, no true christian accepts civil unions for gays. What some of the so-called "christians" accept as "same-sex marriage" is an abomination before my God.

nzeaji:

Guy, no true christian accepts civil unions for gays. What some of the so-called "christians" accept as "same-sex marriage" is an abomination before my God.

You are ignorant just like Yaweh

Logicboy03:


Atheism is a religion? Havent you received enough abuse because of your ignorance?


Are you proud of being ignorant?

Abuse doesn't work on me. Remember this: Atheism is a religion.

Logicboy03:

You are ignorant just like Yaweh

You say something like this and even worse,but still want religious people to kiss your azz. No,you can‘t eat your cake and still have it. Xtians may accept you calling yahweh ignorant but muslims won‘t. Learn how to disagree with people on matters without using degrading words about their belief.

Alaafia l‘oro:

You say something like this and even worse,but still want religious people to kiss your azz. No,you can‘t eat your cake and still have it. Xtians may accept you calling yahweh ignorant but muslims won‘t. Learn how to disagree with people on matters without using degrading words about their belief.

That is the state his intellect, he wants to go to heaven at the same time being rude to its owner God, he wants to insult others but feel extremely bad when insulted, he wants to be friends with everybody but at the same time be their enemies that is the level of his sagged intellect! And unfortunately that is how most atheist on NL behave and somehow they still want us to believe they better for leaving religion!

Alaafia l‘oro:

You say something like this and even worse,but still want religious people to kiss your azz. No,you can‘t eat your cake and still have it. Xtians may accept you calling yahweh ignorant but muslims won‘t. Learn how to disagree with people on matters without using degrading words about their belief.

Who told you that I want religious people to kiss my azz? The fact that your comment got likes shows how ignorant some religious peeps are.


The point of the thread lies in your 3rd sentence. Many christians put the human before the religion. They realise that people might not accept their beliefs and will mock them. These christians will dislike the fact that you mock their religion but they dont hate you with murderous intent like some muslims do. Hate the sin and not the sinner.


When peeps put the religion before the human, you end up with Salman Rushdie affair

vedaxcool:

That is the state his intellect, he wants to go to heaven at the same time being rude to its owner God, he wants to insult others but feel extremely bad when insulted, he wants to be friends with everybody but at the same time be their enemies that is the level of his sagged intellect! And unfortunately that is how most atheist on NL behave and somehow they still want us to believe they better for leaving religion!

When bastards like you claim that atheists are fools and homosexuals and will burn in hell, you dont expect them to hate you for life.


But when atheists mock your religion, you want harsh sanctions banning, censorship and what not.


This is the mind of a fundamentalist like Vedaxcool

Logicboy03:


Who told you that I want religious people to kiss my azz? The fact that your comment got likes shows how ignorant some religious peeps are.


The point of the thread lies in your 3rd sentence. Many christians put the human before the religion. They realise that people might not accept their beliefs and will mock them. These christians will dislike the fact that you mock their religion but they dont hate you with murderous intent like some muslims do. Hate the sin and not the sinner.


When peeps put the religion before the human, you end up with Salman Rushdie affair

Your 1st two sentences are quite irrelevant to what we are discussing. Saying some muslims put religion before human may not be far from the truth but that doesn‘t warrant any murderous intent unlike what you said earlier. Only ignorant people will kill or do any other devilish act just because of differences in religion. Everyone should be able to choose his religious belief without being intimidated. Peace!

Alaafia l‘oro:

Your 1st two sentences are quite irrelevant to what we are discussing. Saying some muslims put religion before human may not be far from the truth but that doesn‘t warrant any murderous intent unlike what you said earlier. Only ignorant people will kill or do any other devilish act just because of differences in religion. Everyone should be able to choose his religious belief without being intimidated. Peace!

Seen.

Logicboy03:
1) Atheism is not a religion

Is it a cult of those who do not believe in the existence of God? Or a group of people who hold the belief, not having a structured organisation? Does your classification of an atheist put them above the comparison you have just subjected the NL muslim and the NL christian to?

seyibrown:

Is it a cult of those who do not believe in the existence of God? Or a group of people who hold the belief, not having a structured organisation? Does your classification of an atheist put them above the comparison you have just subjected the NL muslim and the NL christian to?

Atheism is not a belief but a disbelief.


The only thing that holds atheist together is a disbelief in god. Very different from Christianity or islam.