When was Jesus crucified? Well, this may look like a trivial question, but it is not. The clue is - well it depends on which gospel you read.

One gospel says Jesus was crucified on the day before passover while another says on the day of after passover.

Now, which gospels gives the most likely version of events? Well, why not toss a coin?

To think that the Jewish courts, Sanhedrin, would have convened on the night before a major religious festival (the passover) to convict a common criminal (Jesus) strains every sense of plausibility imaginable.

This also has implications for how long Jesus is supposed to have been dead. If it is anything other than THREE DAYS long, then that violate his own prediction that he was going to be dead three days.

What do you guys think?

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A bit of Historical Background from R.G Price, Jesus, A very Jewish Myth, Page 129.

Here is what a recent research (R. G. Price http://rationalrevolution.net/articles/jesus_myth_history.htm ) of the period has to say about the crucifixion of Jesus.


Jesus' crucifixion on Passover defies historical believability, yet makes perfect sense metaphorically

According to the Gospels, Jesus was crucified on either the first day of Passover or the day before Passover, depending on the Gospel. The synoptics have Jesus crucified on the day of Passover, while John puts the crucifixion on the day before. This itself defies reason, as Passover is considered one of the holiest of Jewish holidays, and this holiday not only took considerable preparation, but was a time of forgiveness and celebration. It is also when the Jews made public sacrifices to their god. That the Jewish authorities would have held a public execution of someone at this time is itself pretty well beyond belief.

Not only this, but the arrest and (very short) trial of Jesus supposedly took place at night on Passover eve. That the Sanhedrin (the Jewish body of judges) would have assembled in the middle of the night on Passover eve to pass a quick judgment on anyone defies reason, but when you add to this the fact that in the story the members of the council slap Jesus and spit in his face the implausible borders on the impossible. To say that the Sanhedrin slapped and spit on someone in a trial is like saying that the justices of the Supreme Court would slap and spit on defendants. Yes, these were ancient times, but the institutions being talked about here were formal institutions that didn't just convene on a whim and they didn't act like savages, much less on Passover eve.

Here are rules of the Sanhedrin that were in place at the time according to the Jewish Mishnah:

* 1) No criminal session was allowed at night.
* 2) No Sanhedrin trial could be heard at any place other than the Temple precincts.
* 3) No capital crime could be tried in a one-day sitting.
* 4) No criminal trial could be held on the eve of a Sabbath or festival.
* 5) No one could be found guilty on his own confession.
* 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.
* 7) The Sanhedrin were allowed to execute people on their own and did not need the Romans to do so for them.

The trial of Jesus according to the Gospels violated all of these rules.

More information on the laws of the Sanhedrin can be found here: http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/sanhedrin.html

So, the story of Jesus' arrest and execution seems quite implausible at the outset, but when one considers the symbolism of the story it becomes apparent that the basis for this story is theological, not historical.

On Passover, at the time that this story is supposedly taking place, the Jews provided many sacrifices, most of them as burnt offerings, meaning animals that were slaughtered and then burned on a fire. In addition to these sacrifices there was a special sacrifice of a lamb which was not burnt, but was instead eaten.

Josephus tells us of this tradition:

The feast of unleavened bread succeeds that of the Passover, and falls on the fifteenth day of the month, and continues seven days, wherein they feed on unleavened bread; on every one of which days two bulls are killed, and one ram, and seven lambs. Now these lambs are entirely burnt, besides the ewe lamb which is added to all the rest, for sins; for it is intended as a feast for the priest on every one of those days.
- Antiquity of the Jews, Josephus

This special lamb is a sacrifice specifically for the forgiveness of sins.

The crucifixion of Jesus on Passover is a metaphor for this sacrificial lamb. This symbolism was, perhaps, one of the earliest and most developed parts of Jesus Christ theology among the early followers of the Christ mythos among the Jews. The idea of Jesus Christ as a sacrificial lamb is first recorded in the letters of Paul from 1 Corinthians 5, where Paul associates immoral people with yeast and urges his correspondents to expel an immoral man from among their group:




==============================================================================


Some of my other threads


The Dangers Of Religious Fundamentalism To Intellectualism
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110955.msg1929006#msg1929006

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles And Some History: Who Was Jesus?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112697.msg1954632#msg1954632

Only For Those Who Know Their Bibles: Old Testament Stories
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112679.msg1954426#msg1954426

Human Sacrifice In The Bible: Lev 27: 29 & Judges 11
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112584.msg1953340#msg1953340

Please, Please, Please: Christians - Read Read Read Your Bibles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112578.msg1953311#msg1953311

When Was Jesus Crucified?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112557.msg1952665#msg1952665

On Conversion To A Religion (christianity Or I-slam)
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112547.msg1952353#msg1952353

Faith-healers And Tele-evangelists
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112398.msg1950528#msg1950528

Where Did Sin Originate?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112377.msg1950291#msg1950291

For The Non-beleivers Only, 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112262.msg1948957#msg1948957

Would Christains Be Criminals And Offenders If They Were Not Christians?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112259.msg1948919#msg1948919

On The Authenticity Of The New Testament, Part 1
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112240.msg1948631#msg1948631

Has Atheism Got Principle? No
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112216.msg1948180#msg1948180

It Is Biblical To Have Sex (and Lots Of It) Before Marriage
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112139.msg1946940#msg1946940

Should The Old Testament Laws Be Observed In The Modern Era?
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112114.msg1946682#msg1946682

Founding A State or Nation On Religious Principles
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=112086.msg1946268#msg1946268

Great Books About Non-belief
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111928.msg1943935#msg1943935

Who Are The Self-declared Non-believer? Resources For You
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111806.msg1942137#msg1942137

Beware of a Simplistic Interpretation of Jesus's 2nd Coming Passages
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111677.msg1939992#msg1939992

Archbishop Cause Furore Over Sharia Law In The Uk
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111645.msg1939155#msg1939155

Eminent Christian Scientist (francis Collins) Explains The Evolution Of Humans
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111482.msg1936158#msg1936158

Please, Help Me Out With Your Knowledge Of The Bible
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111474.msg1936099#msg1936099

Why Biology Is So Important To Our Modern World
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111466.msg1935975#msg1935975

Genesis Vs Genetics
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111227.msg1932655#msg1932655

Jesus Genealogy
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111222.msg1932616#msg1932616

£300 (three - Hundred Pound Sterling) Essay Competition
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=111143.msg1931508#msg1931508

Beware Of Religious Fundamentalism In Your University Campuses
https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria?topic=110965.msg1929160#msg1929160
===============================================================================

therationa:

What do you guys think?

we think you shld read the bible and stop being led astray by atheist dogma.

@therationa,

Lol. I'm rather fascinated that you've become so entranced by Christianity - so much so that you seem to whip up every excuse to not believe its claims when you haven't been able to hold a rational discourse to a logical end in your previous efforts. When your time arrives, we will read you like Anthony Flew.

therationa:

When was Jesus crucified? Well, this may look like a trivial question, but it is not. The clue is - well it depends on which gospel you read.

One gospel says Jesus was crucified on the day before passover while another says on the day after passover.

Now, which gospels gives the most like version of events? Well why you toss a coin?

To think the the Jewish courts, Sanhedrin, would have convened on the night before a major religious festival (the passover) to convict a common criminal (Jesus) strains every sense of plausibility imaginable.

This also has implications for how long Jesus is supposed to have been dead. If it is anything other than THREE DAYS long, then that violate his own prediction that he was going to be dead three days.

What do you guys think?

I think you will add more value to your life by preparing for Valentine's day.

stimulus:

@therationa,

Lol. I'm rather fascinated that you've become so entranced by Christianity - so much so that you seem to whip up every excuse to not believe its claims when you haven't been able to hold a rational discourse to a logical end in your previous efforts. When your time arrives, we will read you like Anthony Flew.

Flew is NOT, NOT NOT a christian.

therationa:

Flew is NOT, NOT NOT a christian.

Dear sir, I never claimed that Flew was one!

I have added more historical context to the posting.

anybody now cares to comment on the analysis of R. G. Price? about the crucifixion?

therationa:

6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.

John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

R.G. Price should do more research.

@therationa,

therationa:

I have added more historical context to the posting.

Thank you.

therationa:

anybody now cares to comment on the analysis of R. G. Price? about the crucifixion?

Now may I again ask you to stand in defence of your own assumptions thereto? Do you care to discuss these assumptions and see how untennable your arguments are?

@4Him,

Thanks for that reply. However, I'd be looking forward to a very detailed response point-by-point, line-upon-line, in every premise that therationa propounds hereto. I like #6 that you dealt with, and I'd like to consider it as well when taking the OP through his own misgivings. What I should add here is that it reveals R.G. Price has no clue as to Jewish laws and customs.

4Him:

John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

R.G. Price should do more research.

4HIM,

Please, could you explain more. I don't get the point you are making.

4Him:

John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

@therationa

You can see that the Jews that lived 2000 years ago were much more discerning that you: with all your logic and rationality, internet and research work.

These Jews understood the implication of being a Son of God ->

Cat can only beget cat.
Man can only beget man.
God can only beget God!!!

imhotep:

@therationa

You can see that the Jews that lived 2000 years ago were much more discerning that you: with all your logic and rationality, internet and research work.

These Jews understood the implication of being a Son of God ->

Cat can only beget cat.
Man can only beget man.
God can only beget God!!!

Imhotep,

Are you interested in looking at this from a historical basis, OR are you only wanting to preach and do theology?

therationa:


Imhotep,

Are you interested in looking at this from a historical basis, OR are you only wanting to preach and do theology?

Your historical looks has not allowed you to see truths that ancient people saw easily. How has your modernity helped you now?

therationa:

4HIM,

Please, could you explain more. I don't get the point you are making.

R.G Price lied when he said and i quote - 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.

John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The jews brought forward a blasphemy charge against Christ because He pronounced Himself as God (and rightfully so) in the presence of several witnesses.

Much as I enjoy reading these reasonings of you guys, I daresay that the Christians amongst you all (and I understand now that David is 4Him - know him as davidylan only), really have much time to spare.

Spiritual things are strictly spiritual. No mortal man can understand (comprehend might be the right word) anything spiritual with their mortal reasonings - except he/she is born of the Spirit of God - born again, by the washing of the waters by the blood.

You guys can jolly ride on with this discussion. Just having a fun ride with it.

4Him:

R.G Price lied when he said and i quote - 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.

John 5: 18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.

The jews brought forward a blasphemy charge against Christ because He pronounced Himself as God (and rightfully so) in the presence of several witnesses.

What have you got a beef about? Is it the difference between calling HIMSELF or GOD?. Whichever, it still looks like blasphemy to me. I am not an expert on the Sanhedrin, but that is just my humble opinion.

BTW, Price is qouting the Sanhedrin document. So it is unfair to call him a liar. Not least because the you are comparing Price to the bible and the bible is not an authenticated (reliable) historical source.

You are going off course here - deal with the substance of the question; When was Jesus crucified?

One of R.G Price's premises for disbelieving the date of the crucifiction was this - 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.

But John 5: 18 makes perfectly satisfies that rule.

Seemingly little inconsistencies in write-ups like those of Price makes me feel its not worth the effort responding to dishonest questions like urs.

Can anyone address the question of when Jesus is suppose to have been crucified?

Abi, tis one no day hard-o. Make u try answer-am oh.

hi all

what is the use of prooving to someone whose mind is made up on an issue? please this is what peter said

1 Pet 3:15
15 But sanctify the Lord God in your hearts: and be ready always to give an answer to every man that asketh you a reason of the hope that is in you with meekness and fear:
(KJV)

he said reason not argue the reason of my hope. Remember Jesus Christ doesnt have to prove to the Pharisees that He resurrected. He finally said that blessed is anyone that believes even though He has not seen becos it is given to those that grace has been given to understan.

for instance, i cant use scientific tools to prove love yet i know love. so i dont have to prove anything, if u believe good if you dont its upto you

JESUS CHRIST IS GOD!!!

Anyone to stay on topic here?

Anyone knows when Jesus was nailed and stabbed?

why dont you tell us.
I thot u said he never existed.

why don't you tell us.
I thot u said he never existed.

@therationa,

therationa:

Can anyone address the question of when Jesus is suppose to have been crucified?

On what premises do you argue the Crucifixion? What are your own arguments against it?

I am going by your bible. But when was he crucified? That is the question. Stay on topic.

therationa date=1202938536:

Not only this, but the arrest and (very short) trial of Jesus supposedly took place at night on Passover eve. That the Sanhedrin (the Jewish body of judges) would have assembled in the middle of the night on Passover eve to pass a quick judgment on anyone defies reason . . .

The Jewish authorities had tried to arrest Jesus during the day in the past and failed. They were also afraid of being stoned by the public since Jesus was popular among the people. This will easily explain the night time arrest even at the least expected time [desprate time called for desprate measures . . . so to speak].

therationa date=1202938536:

. . . but when you add to this the fact that in the story the members of the council slap Jesus and spit in his face the implausible borders on the impossible. To say that the Sanhedrin slapped and spit on someone in a trial is like saying that the justices of the Supreme Court would slap and spit on defendants. Yes, these were ancient times, but the institutions being talked about here were formal institutions that didn't just convene on a whim and they didn't act like savages, much less on Passover eve.

The sanhedrin ordered the arrest of Christ using the temple guards as instrument. If the same temple guards assault Christ and allow disgruntuled hanger-ons to do the same then the responsibility passes on to the same sanhedrin who ordered the arrest - what didi they do to stop the assault.
The sanhedrin may be an honourable council and a formal institution and so is the Nigerian senate (and those of other countries) but we have seen on National TV how these honourables sometimes behave during their formal sessions (slaps, throwing pieces of furniture at one another, fist cuffs, etc).

therationa date=1202938536:

Here are rules of the Sanhedrin that were in place at the time according to the Jewish Mishnah:

* 1) No criminal session was allowed at night.
* 2) No Sanhedrin trial could be heard at any place other than the Temple precincts.
* 3) No capital crime could be tried in a one-day sitting.
* 4) No criminal trial could be held on the eve of a Sabbath or festival.
* 5) No one could be found guilty on his own confession.
* 6) No blasphemy charge could be sustained unless the accused pronounced the name of God in front of witnesses.
* 7) The Sanhedrin were allowed to execute people on their own and did not need the Romans to do so for them.

The trial of Jesus according to the Gospels violated all of these rules.

and having considered their own rules it was then not supprising that they desprately tried to correct their error by first sending Christ to Herod (hoping the Patriach would do the hatchet job and save their hands from being smeared), then to Pilate (who had Christ executed not on some "stupid blasphemy Charges against some foriegn Jewish God" but on Charges of sedition against the Roman authority).

I fail to see any inconsistency in the Biblical account and the "expected" behaviour of the Sanhedrin given the despration of their situation. Lets not forget that these people had dogged every step of Christ during his ministry looking for ways to trap him.

It was a Cruci-Fiction.

It was a Cruci-Fiction.

We have crucifixion, crucifiction, crurifragium etc.


Let me be reading from people before I come in.

@tomX:

The Jewish authorities had tried to arrest Jesus during the day in the past and failed. They were also afraid of being stoned by the public since Jesus was popular among the people. This will easily explain the night time arrest even at the least expected time [desprate time called for desprate measures . . . so to speak].

The sanhedrin ordered the arrest of Christ using the temple guards as instrument. If the same temple guards assault Christ and allow disgruntuled hanger-ons to do the same then the responsibility passes on to the same sanhedrin who ordered the arrest - what didi they do to stop the assault.
The sanhedrin may be an honourable council and a formal institution and so is the Nigerian senate (and those of other countries) but we have seen on National TV how these honourables sometimes behave during their formal sessions (slaps, throwing pieces of furniture at one another, fist cuffs, etc).

and having considered their own rules it was then not supprising that they desprately tried to correct their error by first sending Christ to Herod (hoping the Patriach would do the hatchet job and save their hands from being smeared), then to Pilate (who had Christ executed not on some "stupid blasphemy Charges against some foriegn Jewish God" but on Charges of sedition against the Roman authority).

I fail to see any inconsistency in the Biblical account and the "expected" behaviour of the Sanhedrin given the despration of their situation. Lets not forget that these people had dogged every step of Christ during his ministry looking for ways to trap him.

When did the crucifixion take place then?

It was very unheard of the the Romans to step in and intervene in areas of Jewish jurisdiction.