greatgenius: good answer...well do you have any idea who or what predetermines it. or put differently how does this chain of causes and effects come about in the first place. and why does it happen to you.

I don't quite follow what you mean here. perhaps, I should inform you on what I mean when I talk about predetermination. I'll give you a small illustration.

Once upon a time, one young man went to the stream where he met a girl and fell in love with her.
A little while later, a war broke out and he joined the army where he met another lady whom he had an affair with. In fact he was going to marry her after the war had she not been gangraped and killed by enemy soldiers.
Utterly devastated, he returned home after the war and eventually settled for the girl he met at the stream. They had two children together a boy and a girl.
The boy was very fond of his sister and liked the little red ribbon she would always tie on her hair. In fact when he went to university, he met a girl with red ribbons on her hair on one morning when he would rather have slept than gone to class.
He only went because one of his friends forced him to and the girl was only wearing the ribbon that day because she lost a bet with her friends. Well, he fell in love with her and they eventually got married and gave birth to Mr Anony who many years later would come on NL one sunday morning because he was feeling to lazy to go to the morning service and then would meet greatgenius.

Notice that all the events preceding this meeting have predetermined that it should be. If one of them had changed i.e. My grandfather had chosen not to go to the stream or my father had chosen not to go to class or those soldiers had chosen not to gangrape that lady to death or my mother had chosen not to make that bet or my aunt had prefered blue hairpins to red ribbons, The events following would have changed so drastically that Mr Anony wouldn't even exist. All these choices have resulted in my existence but I didn't make any of them. Also, the choices I will make will go on to predetermine the events in both my life and the life of someone else as well.

1. God is all things both seen and unseen. in other words he is all that is.
2. a person is simply put a being
3.God is really just an observer( i used observer because most people think God is separate from them).. but you could also say she is a co-creator with us..
4. a being has a broad definitions and rightly so. but i will simply say a being is something in existence or that exists

1. If God is simply everything, then God isn't anything in particular but just a synonym for all things therefore God wouldn't really exist since there would be no distinction between God and anything else.
Perhaps you may want to clarify by telling me what God is not.

2. Perhaps I didn't ask the question properly but I'll let it pass for now.

3. If God is really just an observer and we are co-creator with God and the same as God, are you not somehow implying that God is both creator and created. This would be a logical absurdity because you would be saying that God created God. For something to create another thing, it must first exist. An entity cannot bring itself into existence. It is either it exists eternally or it is brought into existence by something else.

4. The question of being is a very deep question and I am afraid you haven't tackled it properly. However, I'll let it pass for now just like the question of person. Perhaps my question was too vague.
Let us focus on defining God for now, we'll come back to being and personhood at the end.

now i also have some questions for. do you believe you create your own reality?

No, reality is independent of me. I don't create it. I just happen to be in reality

^^^ i did understand but it seemed you didn't understand my questions.. btw beautiful and captivating story i might add. and i see this is going to get interesting...it is the creators will that we discuss so we will.

p/s. been up all night so will reply you when i get up. almost 7 am so i should get some rest. will talk to you later.

davkin:
Is life is of great impotance to GOd thats y he was called by GOd rather than leave ere to evolve into something vice

So why didn't God call Hitler and others who have perpetrated great evil on the world back to safety? are you saying God is partial?

Mr_Anony:
1. If God is simply everything, then God isn't anything in particular but just a synonym for all things therefore God wouldn't really exist since there would be no distinction between God and anything else.
Perhaps you may want to clarify by telling me what God is not.


3. If God is really just an observer and we are co-creator with God and the same as God, are you not somehow implying that God is both creator and created. This would be a logical absurdity because you would be saying that God created God. For something to create another thing, it must first exist. An entity cannot bring itself into existence. It is either it exists eternally or it is brought into existence by something else.

I know this isn't addressed to me but I'll just say what I feel. You are correct in saying that if God is everything then God isn't anything in particular and I like your paradox that God cannot be both creator and created. Combining the two observations begs the question "does anything physical actually really exist? or is the world as we know it something of an illusion? Refer to quantum mechanics if you can

Mr_Anony:
Lololololol...........here he goes again. wiegraf and his poor thinking.

And here comes the genius at sophistry, here to do your master's bidding. It's alright, it's all part of being deluded

Affiliated:

I don't hold that there's is a personality called God in the first place. But religion says God is both omnipotent and omniscient [They don't imply each other]

How can this god, not yours, not be evil? Especially if they hold he's responsible for creation? He would be responsible for having created everything, nazi's included for instance, yes?

O.T.I.S:

some people seem to be happy with the idea that they have this God that looks after them day after day, and takes interest in them. And yet by the time you've reached the end of this sentence dozens of children would have died of hunger in somalia because that same god wouldn't send rainfail, you wouldn't accept that sort of mentality from a person, but you accept it in a God through the fear of speaking out of line.
I like the idea of a God, but not one that prioritizes my general happiness over the health and well being of others. That's the God that people worship but they can't convince me that kind of leadership is somehow justifiable. Essentially, all the signs point to either no God or a malevolent God.

"Essentially" humans have underrated their God-given freedom and abilities to recreate conditions that would make them happy on this earth. God needs not come to our aid in such avoidable problems like hunger, wars, diseases and most of the natural disasters that are increasingly causing havoc around the world. Scientific inventions geared toward solving such problems would have since eliminated such a long time ago. We are responsible for our woes.

The least that God might be inclined to do is to remind us of the wrong paths we have chosen through selfishness and such other non altruistic indulgences; which He does continually through the Prophets and other men/women of goodwill. All that humans need to make this earth a 'paradise' are here with us, followed by an almost boundless intelligence which if fully and properly used could answer all questions of physical life. God's silence is intended to awaken us from the slumber of self-defeat. Let all human inventions and social ideas be made subjects of LOVE and the world's woes would disappear in a flicker.

greatgenius: ^^^ i did understand but it seemed you didn't understand my questions.. btw beautiful and captivating story i might add. and i see this is going to get interesting...it is the creators will that we discuss so we will.

p/s. been up all night so will reply you when i get up. almost 7 am so i should get some rest. will talk to you later.

Fair enough....seems we live in different time zones. I think we have come upon an interesting discussion and I'll really love us to see it out to the end. Cheers

Affiliated:

I know this isn't addressed to me but I'll just say what I feel. You are correct in saying that if God is everything then God isn't anything in particular and I like your paradox that God cannot be both creator and created. Combining the two observations begs the question "does anything physical actually really exist? or is the world as we know it something of an illusion? Refer to quantum mechanics if you can

Hmm, more philosophical questions popping up. I believe greatgenius and I are in for an interesting discussion.

Mr_Anony:
I don't quite follow what you mean here. perhaps, I should inform you on what I mean when I talk about predetermination. I'll give you a small illustration.

Once upon a time, one young man went to the stream where he met a girl and fell in love with her.
A little while later, a war broke out and he joined the army where he met another lady whom he had an affair with. In fact he was going to marry her after the war had she not been gangraped and killed by enemy soldiers.
Utterly devastated, he returned home after the war and eventually settled for the girl he met at the stream. They had two children together a boy and a girl.
The boy was very fond of his sister and liked the little red ribbon she would always tie on her hair. In fact when he went to university, he met a girl with red ribbons on her hair on one morning when he would rather have slept than gone to class.
He only went because one of his friends forced him to and the girl was only wearing the ribbon that day because she lost a bet with her friends. Well, he fell in love with her and they eventually got married and gave birth to Mr Anony who many years later would come on NL one sunday morning because he was feeling to lazy to go to the morning service and then would meet greatgenius.

This is a beautiful illustration like i said. Beautiful because that’s exactly how the universe works.causes and with their effects. Some events might seem like accidents but nothing really happens by accident. Absolutely nothing. Things happen always as a result of choice whether you are aware of it or not.
From the bigger picture or perspective you partook and MADE ALL THOSE CHOICES, Including the choice of your grandfather going down to the stream, then off to the army all the way down to us meeting. Everything happened the way it did because of the choices made. There was no other way that it could have happened. In the world of relativity everything has its cause and effect.

Notice that all the events preceding this meeting have predetermined that it should be. If one of them had changed i.e. My grandfather had chosen not to go to the stream or my father had chosen not to go to class or those soldiers had chosen not to gangrape that lady to death or my mother had chosen not to make that bet or my aunt had prefered blue hairpins to red ribbons, The events following would have changed so drastically that Mr Anony wouldn't even exist. All these choices have resulted in my existence but I didn't make any of them. Also, the choices I will make will go on to predetermine the events in both my life and the life of someone else as well.

We are all in this game of life together and everything is interconnected including our choices. Our choices affect us and as well as the collective whole. None of the situations and events that you listed happened by chance. The events happened the way they did and no other way it could have as a result of the choices made. Nothing happens to anyone without a choosing for it to be so.. Think about this for a minute.
It is too early to say this and we will get to that in our discussion but It will suit you to know that even all deaths are self-chosen.

You think you didn’t make any of those choices but I tell you what you did. As long as you were a product of your parents union, you are as much responsible just like your parents to all the choices that proceeded and led to your birth. Your soul which knows all things knew about the events preceding your birth and still CHOSE to incarnate in that body.

answer this is it a babies choice to be born or the parents? is it the choice of the robber to rob or the victim to be robbed.? do you think one that gets robbed has chosen at some point to be robbed? the answers might scare you or set you free depending on what angle you look at it.

1. If God is simply everything, then God isn't anything in particular but just a synonym for all things therefore God wouldn't really exist since there would be no distinction between God and anything else.
Perhaps you may want to clarify by telling me what God is not.

2. Perhaps I didn't ask the question properly but I'll let it pass for now.

Ok good you’re asking good questions... First of all God cannot not exist. God cannot not be. That would be impossible.
But What you are asking is what I call the divine dichotomy. he is everything yet no-thing at the same time becuase to be every-thing you would have to be no-thing. She is what she is and what she is not. She is both the light and darkness. He is The alpha but yet the omega. He is all these things. why? Because God is all there is and nothing else. There is only one God.one soul. one spirit.one energy. there is only one of us. The all that is/not.

But let see if I can help you understand this by asking you this question and then we take it from there.. Do you believe God can be everywhere and nowhere at the same time?

3. If God is really just an observer and we are co-creator with God and the same as God, are you not somehow implying that God is both creator and created. This would be a logical absurdity because you would be saying that God created God. For something to create another thing, it must first exist. An entity cannot bring itself into existence. It is either it exists eternally or it is brought into existence by something else.

Creation just like separation is an illusion. That is why I said that if you think you are separate from God then he will be like an observer to you. But the truth is us and God are one and the same. The mind body and soul/spirit are one and the same..
We are all the body of God.. as your body is to your mind and soul, so, too, are we to God’s mind and soul. Everything God experiences, he experiences through us. Just as our body, mind, and spirit are one, so, too, are GOD’s. Something jesus understood and thus said.” I and the father are one.”

Just as the particles of the rock make up the body of it so too do we make up the body of God. Just like particles of a rock you could say we are the microcosm of God.
Are the particles of a rock separate from the rock? Are the waves of the sea really separate from the sea?
Would you say the particles of a rock are created? Or they have always been part of the rock eternally and make up the rock. I tell you this separation and creation is an illusion.


let me add another dimension into our discussion and state that so called God the father or the creator is basically Thought/imagination/intent.

4. The question of being is a very deep question and I am afraid you haven't tackled it properly. However, I'll let it pass for now just like the question of person. Perhaps my question was too vague.
Let us focus on defining God for now, we'll come back to being and personhood at the end.

ok we will do that then

No, reality is independent of me. I don't create it. I just happen to be in reality

hmmm interesting i see where some of your beliefs originated from... "your" reality is not independent of you you create it. answer this. how does one become rich or poor. does the state of being rich just "happen to people"(using your words)...

Affiliated:

I know this isn't addressed to me but I'll just say what I feel. You are correct in saying that if God is everything then God isn't anything in particular and I like your paradox that God cannot be both creator and created. Combining the two observations begs the question "does anything physical actually really exist? or is the world as we know it something of an illusion? Refer to quantum mechanics if you can

well it is an illusion but a beautiful one i might add. we are all living a collective dream. the world and everything thing in it is nothing more than a projection of the mind( mind of God or whateever you want to call it). most people are not aware they are living a dream. and like our "dreams" it feels and looks so real until you awake and then you realize it was only a dream..

since this is a discussion let me give you another angle to think about and answer.. is matter an illusion or real?

greatgenius, do you still hold this philosophy?

greatgenius:
since this is a discussion let me give you another angle to think about and answer.. is matter an illusion or real?

I agree with all the things you said earlier, and to answer this question as best as I can, matter is a real illusion.

wiegraf:

How can this god, not yours, not be evil? Especially if they hold he's responsible for creation? He would be responsible for having created everything, nazi's included for instance, yes?

Yes

greatgenius: This is a beautiful illustration like i said. Beautiful because that’s exactly how the universe works.causes and with their effects. Some events might seem like accidents but nothing really happens by accident. Absolutely nothing. Things happen always as a result of choice whether you are aware of it or not.
From the bigger picture or perspective you partook and MADE ALL THOSE CHOICES, Including the choice of your grandfather going down to the stream, then off to the army all the way down to us meeting. Everything happened the way it did because of the choices made. There was no other way that it could have happened. In the world of relativity everything has its cause and effect.

You see my friend you have still not told me exactly how I partook in the choice of My Grandpa meeting my Grandma at the stream.
Secondly and even more bothersome is your assertion that the choices were absolutely fixed because this rubbishes the whole concept of freewill and choice itself. If there is absolutely no other way an event would have happened, then there is no such thing as choice and my grandparents as well as everyone else are just actors playing out a script......if this is true, then we inevitably are faced with the question: "Who wrote the script?"

We are all in this game of life together and everything is interconnected including our choices. Our choices affect us and as well as the collective whole. None of the situations and events that you listed happened by chance. The events happened the way they did and no other way it could have as a result of the choices made. Nothing happens to anyone without a choosing for it to be so.. Think about this for a minute.
It is too early to say this and we will get to that in our discussion but It will suit you to know that even all deaths are self-chosen.

Interesting, I have thought about it for more than a minute and I still fail to see how another person's choices equate to my choices. For instance, I didn't choose to be conceived, someone else made that choice. I would like to know in clear terms exactly what part I had to play in my mother choosing to carry her pregnancy and give birth to me.

You think you didn’t make any of those choices but I tell you what you did. As long as you were a product of your parents union, you are as much responsible just like your parents to all the choices that proceeded and led to your birth. Your soul which knows all things knew about the events preceding your birth and still CHOSE to incarnate in that body.

Oh I see, so in other words, my future son's soul is making my choices now (or is it my grandson's soul? or my great-grandson's soul? ad infinitum.) This is if I even get to have children or grandchildren. You can see how bad it gets the more we think about it. Your assertion seems to be that multiple souls are all making exactly the same choice. This can only be true if we are all exactly one soul. As long as we are separate individuals, then I am afraid your theory does not hold.
Then on the other hand if you hold that multiple individuals are indeed one and the same, then you would have to explain exactly how one soul can make two conflicting choices over the same issue.

answer this is it a babies choice to be born or the parents? is it the choice of the robber to rob or the victim to be robbed.? do you think one that gets robbed has chosen at some point to be robbed? the answers might scare you or set you free depending on what angle you look at it.

I say the parents choose to give birth, birth happens to the baby, the baby has no choice in it's birth. The case of the victim and robber is a bit more complicated because there could be special cases but under normal circumstances, the robber chooses to rob, robbery happens to the victim.

Ok good you’re asking good questions... First of all God cannot not exist. God cannot not be. That would be impossible.
But What you are asking is what I call the divine dichotomy. he is everything yet no-thing at the same time becuase to be every-thing you would have to be no-thing. She is what she is and what she is not. She is both the light and darkness. He is The alpha but yet the omega. He is all these things. why? Because God is all there is and nothing else. There is only one God.one soul. one spirit.one energy. there is only one of us. The all that is/not.

While I agree with you that God cannot not be, I disagree with the rest of your post because it is illogical for God to be and not to be at the same time and in the same sense, It is also illogical for God to be light and also equally be darkness.
I also noticed you saying that we are all one spirit, If this is true, then you would have to explain how one spirit can sharply conflict and contradict itself, be both good and evil at the same time and in the same sense, and finally, how one spirit can make a multitude of diverse choices and hold diverse opinions over the same issue at once.

But let see if I can help you understand this by asking you this question and then we take it from there.. Do you believe God can be everywhere and nowhere at the same time?

God is everywhere. . .and since God is everywhere, He cannot be nowhere. To claim that God is everywhere and nowhere is illogical. It is like claiming that I am in Lagos and at the same time and in the same sense not in Lagos. This breaks the logical law of non-contradiction.

Creation just like separation is an illusion. That is why I said that if you think you are separate from God then he will be like an observer to you. But the truth is us and God are one and the same. The mind body and soul/spirit are one and the same..
We are all the body of God.. as your body is to your mind and soul, so, too, are we to God’s mind and soul. Everything God experiences, he experiences through us. Just as our body, mind, and spirit are one, so, too, are GOD’s. Something jesus understood and thus said.” I and the father are one.”

Lol, I am a Christian and I can assure you that you have totally misrepresented Jesus there because Jesus did not say anything like you are saying. Jesus was very clear in distinguishing between Himself and the rest of the world. He told us He is one with God but He also made it clear that He was not of this world thereby making a very clear distinction between God and everyone else.

Just as the particles of the rock make up the body of it so too do we make up the body of God. Just like particles of a rock you could say we are the microcosm of God.
Are the particles of a rock separate from the rock? Are the waves of the sea really separate from the sea?
Would you say the particles of a rock are created? Or they have always been part of the rock eternally and make up the rock. I tell you this separation and creation is an illusion.

But then the state of being of the rock and the sea are not the same as the state of being humans. The particles of a rock do not make separate individual choices, they all work in unison. Not so for humans. In fact your assertion even creates a bigger logical problem because if all humans are indeed one soul, then the whole idea of good and evil becomes rubbish. If a man rapes a little boy for instance, he has done nothing wrong because it is all one soul in the end. If all is God and God is all and not, where then lies justice? What is just? what is good? and what is choice? What then becomes of these things.

let me add another dimension into our discussion and state that so called God the father or the creator is basically Thought/imagination/intent.

Back it up logically

hmmm interesting i see where some of your beliefs originated from... "your" reality is not independent of you you create it. answer this. how does one become rich or poor. does the state of being rich just "happen to people"(using your words)...

One becomes rich by either working for it or getting lucky. The same for one becoming poor, either he/she was lazy or was unfortunate.

Affiliated:

I agree with all the things you said earlier, and to answer this question as best as I can, matter is a real illusion.

Allow me to chip in here: Your answer is a non-answer, it is either matter is real or it is an illusion, it cannot be both. That's like asking you if you are married or a bachelor and you reply by saying that you are a "married bachelor". It makes no logical sense.
Unfortunately greatgenius also commits this logical blunder when he claims that "God both is and is not" and "God is both light and darkness".

Affiliated:

Yes

I didn't notice you were the op. So, like your op says, how can it be good if it's responsible for evil? Are you accepting it's claims of greater good on faith? Who gets to determine what is 'good' anyways?


Let alone plus omnibenovelent, but we can ignore that. And also that 2 omnixx are impossible in the way most people imagine, the other sketchy, but that's another debate.

Mr_Anony:
You see my friend you have still not told me exactly how I partook in the choice of My Grandpa meeting my Grandma at the stream.
Secondly and even more bothersome is your assertion that the choices were absolutely fixed because this rubbishes the whole concept of freewill and choice itself. If there is absolutely no other way an event would have happened, then there is no such thing as choice and my grandparents as well as everyone else are just actors playing out a script......if this is true, then we inevitably are faced with the question: "Who wrote the script?"

let me give you a scenario. if you are having the urge to go steal and john a friend of yours with the help of bill, and kobe goes to rob a bank,narrates the ordeal to you and then shares the money with you; As much as you were not there with them physically for the operation do you think you are just as responsible and guilty if you partake in their celebration and spend the money with them or not? i tell you what you are. you got a exactly what you imagined and urged for and the universe fulfilled your wishes. your parents got exactly what they wished for. your grandparents just as theri parents got exactly as they wished for etc etc. they choices beautifully and intricately linked and connected.
Your soul knows more than you think it knows. the soul holds all the secrets of the universe. you know and envisioned exactly how you wanted to be born and the events leading to your birth happened exactly how you wished for.

every choice has its result. the choices are infinte just as the results but every choice has it corresponding result. if you understand this you would know that what i said rubbishes not the concept of freewill and choice. like i said it happened exactly the way it happened and no other way because of the choices made.

Interesting, I have thought about it for more than a minute and I still fail to see how another person's choices equate to my choices. For instance, I didn't choose to be conceived, someone else made that choice. I would like to know in clear terms exactly what part I had to play in my mother choosing to carry her pregnancy and give birth to me.

same as my asnwer above. and yes you chose to be conceived just as much as your parents wanted you here or you would not have been born.

Oh I see, so in other words, my future son's soul is making my choices now (or is it my grandson's soul? or my great-grandson's soul? ad infinitum.) This is if I even get to have children or grandchildren. You can see how bad it gets the more we think about it. Your assertion seems to be that multiple souls are all making exactly the same choice. This can only be true if we are all exactly one soul. As long as we are separate individuals, then I am afraid your theory does not hold.
Then on the other hand if you hold that multiple individuals are indeed one and the same, then you would have to explain exactly how one soul can make two conflicting choices over the same issue.

no your future son soul is not making your choices. but if his vision of how he wants to be born is linked to your choices exactly then yes. life is a beautiful script i tell you. it is really very simple but maybe we would need to talk more about the soul for you to understand.

I say the parents choose to give birth, birth happens to the baby, the baby has no choice in it's birth. The case of the victim and robber is a bit more complicated because there could be special cases but under normal circumstances, the robber chooses to rob, robbery happens to the victim.

not at all. in each of the events, both parties got exactly what they wanted. we will get to the how later.

While I agree with you that God cannot not be, I disagree with the rest of your post because it is illogical for God to be and not to be at the same time and in the same sense, It is also illogical for God to be light and also equally be darkness.
I also noticed you saying that we are all one spirit, If this is true, then you would have to explain how one spirit can sharply conflict and contradict itself, be both good and evil at the same time and in the same sense, and finally, how one spirit can make a multitude of diverse choices and hold diverse opinions over the same issue at once.

good questions. but lets set some premises first.
1. do you believe that there is only one God.
2. that this one God "created" everything in the universe both seen and unseen?

these questions should answer you questions but if not we will continue.

God is everywhere. . .and since God is everywhere, He cannot be nowhere. To claim that God is everywhere and nowhere is illogical. It is like claiming that I am in Lagos and at the same time and in the same sense not in Lagos. This breaks the logical law of non-contradiction.

not really it is the lack of understanding that makes it a contradiction..that which is infinite is infinte and that which is limitless is limitless. .It cannot exist anywhere, because it is everywhere. If it is everywhere, it is nowhere in particular.God is everywhere. Therefore, God is nowhere in particular, because to be somewhere in particular, God would have to not be somewhere else.which is not possible for God.

lets use lagos and abuja as an example maybe you would understand this even better. lets assume that abuja and lagos is all there is and nothing else. now assume you areGod, omniscience and omnipresent; and every where from abuja to lagos. you cannot be in abuja and not be in lagos or you would not be everywhere.(but God cannot not be everywhere from abuja to lagos).. because to be everywhere means you have to be at both places at the same time. but then if you are everywhere in abuja and lagos, which you are, then you are no-where because there is no-where else to be but abuja and lagos. abuja abnd lagos is all there is and nothing else. do you understand this.

God is everywhere, and that’s all there is to it. And since she is every-where,he is no-where. And if he is NOWHERE, where is she?
NOW-HERE.get it?

Lol, I am a Christian and I can assure you that you have totally misrepresented Jesus there because Jesus did not say anything like you are saying. Jesus was very clear in distinguishing between Himself and the rest of the world. He told us He is one with God but He also made it clear that He was not of this world thereby making a very clear distinction between God and everyone else.

i do no misinterpretation.but if you say so what then did jesus say. pray tell.
do you really think you are of this world? jesus gave a very clear distinction bewteen god and everyone else? did jesus not tell you that ye are gods as well? did you believe him when he said that?

But then the state of being of the rock and the sea are not the same as the state of being humans. The particles of a rock do not make separate individual choices, they all work in unison. Not so for humans. In fact your assertion even creates a bigger logical problem because if all humans are indeed one soul, then the whole idea of good and evil becomes rubbish. If a man rapes a little boy for instance, he has done nothing wrong because it is all one soul in the end. If all is God and God is all and not, where then lies justice? What is just? what is good? and what is choice? What then becomes of these things.

well there is really not like good and evil at a fundanmetal level in the univese. everything is just is. it is perception that frames reality and good and evil is based on perception.Therefore the perception of good and evil depends on the one perceiving it. If you perceive something as good, then to you it is good. If you perceive something as evil, then to you it is evil.

Good and evil are both based on judgements..To consider something better than or worse than is a judgment. Evil is something of inferior quality compared to something better, therefore a lesser good is considered evil when compared with a greater good. When there is no judgment, there is no consideration of something being better or worse than another. everythihng is accepted. God loves us wether we are "ggod or bad". does the rain not fall on the "just and unjust"...

When you see from a place of non judgment, one thing is not considered to be better or worse than another, but it is just different..



@bolded explain to me how the state of being of the rock and human are not the same. in what context?

One becomes rich by either working for it or getting lucky. The same for one becoming poor, either he/she was lazy or was unfortunate.

there is no-thig as one getting lucky. btw are you not contradicting yourself here. you dont believe you create your own reality yet you believe for one to be rich or poor they either work hard or be lazy respectively. this begs the question how come some people work hard and yet remain poor?

Affiliated:

I agree with all the things you said earlier, and to answer this question as best as I can, matter is a real illusion.

brilliant.

@mr.ANomy..i think you should talk about the premise that there is ony One being and One soul and that this one soul makes up the many soul. maybe there will be some clarity and then we can come back to the other questions..

Mr_Anony:
Allow me to chip in here: Your answer is a non-answer, it is either matter is real or it is an illusion, it cannot be both. That's like asking you if you are married or a bachelor and you reply by saying that you are a "married bachelor". It makes no logical sense.
Unfortunately greatgenius also commits this logical blunder when he claims that "God both is and is not" and "God is both light and darkness".

Well if you say I have to pick one, I'll go with an illusion. This illusion is however real to us because we are in it. I did some reading on quantum physics and the mechanics of it which is why I think it's an illusion, turns out matter isn't what it seems to be. And also if you break every physical thing that exists past its subatomic levels and down to its basic form, there is actually "nothing" there. I read somewhere that things get smaller to infinity

wiegraf:

I didn't notice you were the op. So, like your op says, how can it be good if it's responsible for evil? Are you accepting it's claims of greater good on faith? Who gets to determine what is 'good' anyways?


Let alone plus omnibenovelent, but we can ignore that. And also that 2 omnixx are impossible in the way most people imagine, the other sketchy, but that's another debate.

If I am going to accept the claims of religion, with the current reality, I'll give their personality of God at most 2 out of the 3. So either He loves the child and can do something about it but doesn't know or knows and loves the child but can't do something about it or can do something about it and knows but doesn't love the child. We're actually on the same page

@Greatgenius, hmmmmm!!! Really interesting! It seems you and Billyonaire have similar understanding of what God is. That dude is into something deep I'd really like to know more of these things. It makes sense, really!! I'm following closely homies

greatgenius: @mr.ANomy..i think you should talk about the premise that there is ony One being and One soul and that this one soul makes up the many soul. maybe there will be some clarity and then we can come back to the other questions..

Fair enough....I think it is good we focus on one premise at a time so we don't get dragged along many different tangents. Permit me to come back to this later.

greatgenius: Your soul knows more than you think it knows. the soul holds all the secrets of the universe. you know and envisioned exactly how you wanted to be born and the events leading to your birth happened exactly how you wished for.

every choice has its result. the choices are infinite just as the results but every choice has it corresponding result. if you understand this you would know that what i said rubbishes not the concept of freewill and choice. like i said it happened exactly the way it happened and no other way because of the choices made.

Therefore, God is nowhere in particular, because to be somewhere in particular, God would have to not be somewhere else.which is not possible for God.


well there is really not like good and evil at a fundamental level in the universe. everything is just is. it is perception that frames reality and good and evil is based on perception.Therefore the perception of good and evil depends on the one perceiving it. If you perceive something as good, then to you it is good. If you perceive something as evil, then to you it is evil.

Good and evil are both based on judgements..To consider something better than or worse than is a judgment. Evil is something of inferior quality compared to something better, therefore a lesser good is considered evil when compared with a greater good. When there is no judgment, there is no consideration of something being better or worse than another. everything is accepted.
When you see from a place of non judgment, one thing is not considered to be better or worse than another, but it is just different..

I just had a mental or.gasm

Affiliated:

Well if you say I have to pick one, I'll go with an illusion. This illusion is however real to us because we are in it. I did some reading on quantum physics and the mechanics of it which is why I think it's an illusion, turns out matter isn't what it seems to be. And also if you break every physical thing that exists past its subatomic levels and down to its basic form, there is actually "nothing" there. I read somewhere that things get smaller to infinity

yep
matter is indeed an illusion but it becomes real based on the perception on it. That's why i said your answer earlier was brilliant.. MATTER is nothing more than ENERGY In-formation. matter is energy in-formation. form is not the real thing but an illusion. when you look through the illusion/matter there is a whole differnt world out there.

Nice thread. Subscribing....

Mr_Anony:
Fair enough....I think it is good we focus on one premise at a time so we don't get dragged along many different tangents. Permit me to come back to this later.

ok we shall and take your time. i have to get some work done myself

doubleDx: @Greatgenius, hmmmmm!!! Really interesting! It seems you and Billyonaire have similar understanding of what God is. That dude is into something deep I'd really like to know more of these things. It makes sense, really!! I'm following closely homies

The understnding of who God really is not difficult. it is peoples limited beliefs of who and what they think he should be that makes it difficult to accept or really understand his true nature...
btw who is this billyonaire guy. is he in the religious section often.

greatgenius: The understnding of who God really is not difficult. it is peoples limited beliefs of who and what they think he should be that makes it difficult to accept or really understand his true nature...
btw who is this billyonaire guy. is he in the religious section often.

Billyonaire

What you put up there is beautiful man!

greatgenius: @mr.ANomy..i think you should talk about the premise that there is ony One being and One soul and that this one soul makes up the many soul. maybe there will be some clarity and then we can come back to the other questions..

Good so I'm back. Let's discuss your concept of God indepth.....
Let us start by getting a few things clear.

1. Do you have a respect for logic? (I know this might seem like a rude question to ask but I assure you I mean no rudeness, it's just that I have met many on this forum who have no understanding nor do they have any respect for logic) The question I guess I am really asking is: Can God be explained logically?

2. If you believe God can be explained logically, then please explain to me who God is and what exactly you mean by "the one soul/being". Take as much time as you like, give as detailed a description as possible and then based on your narrative, we will have a discussion. (The reason I want you to do this is so that I can properly understand you and so I don't end up making attacking strawmen when responding to you).

Awaiting your response.

^^^^ @ Anony good questions and glad you want the discussion to continue . will reply you tonight or tomorow..using my phone and I Don't like typing long replies on my phone...