Another problem associated with the "God"
rendering is that if we just keep reading it
would then say that God was justified in
the Spirit. It makes no sense to say God
was justified in the spirit, God was seen by
angels, God was preached among the
Gentiles, God was believed on in the world,
and God was received into glory." One
would have to create quite a theological
spin to have this make any good sense..........

hisblud:
To start with, the THEOS am refering is in v15 not in v16!

And i stated emphatically, that in the "correctly rendered" NIV, the "He" in vs16 is "Hos" which in greek means "who/which". Thus apply your logic to it using the above first as i have stated.

am not changing from the 2 verses,by bringing in another verse so am still on 1 tim 3:15-16.

Now i have asked you to discard the word "trinity". Now in verse 16 it says in the "correctly rendered" NIV, 1 Tim 3:16 Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith:

Look closely at the bolded, what do you see/read!*

Without question,this is the great mystery of our faith....and what is that mystery...??that Christ Ór Gods firstborn came down to the earth and was seen by people......na lie??........I'm happy you knw theos wasn't in that verse....

MR Anony

we are waiting for your response on this;

I can show you verses of the Son reading people's minds i.e. they couldn't hide their thoughts from Him like the Father (Omniscience),

why is 'the son'(jesus), parralled in ignorance with 'the angels' by not having the 'knowledge of the day and hour' of which the father possesed.

in affirmation, jesus declared 'no one except the father have the knowledge' note in the context that he is not making a case for his bodily form,because 'the fulness of deity lives in him bodily'

Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

fast pls!

Mr_Anony:
Dubious? I don't think so. I have shown you clearly from Philipians that Christ is equal to God but he humbled himself and became a man.
Even Isaiah when he prophesies in Isaiah 9:6 says that the child that will be born will be God. What more do you want?

Hmmm....I can see you still have a big problem with the title" GOD"...because for you to still be reading isaiah 9:6 with the thought that the child who was to be born and that is to be called mighty God is equal to the almighty God that sent him....you really need help bro....I'm happy the prophet isaiah wasn't a trinitarian who would have thought Jesus(the messiah) was equal to the 1 Yahweh he worshipped..........the next time you find yourself confused always know that Yahweh is the almighty GOD.....which makes him greater than Jesus.....

Besides you haven't answered this very important question....

Did GOD die??can GOD die??

Mr_Anony:
Exactly: Nobody has seen God but we have seen Him in the flesh. Jesus Christ.

Lol...this statement is so contradictory....nobody has seen GOD,but we have seen him in the flesh??.....then how is it nobody has seen God??even Jesus said nobody has seen him...it means Jesus lied......mr anony...NOBODY has seen GOD...if you choose to evade this truth then you aint a sincere person....
____________________________

Mr_Anony:
From my experience with you, anything you don't agree with is automatically spurious.

But I just told the truth...the kjv's rendering of that vÉrse is spurious.....there was nothing like the word ""theos" used in that verse.......

BARRISTERS: MR Anony

we are waiting for your response on this;



why is 'the son'(jesus), parralled in ignorance with 'the angels' by not having the 'knowledge of the day and hour' of which the father possesed.

in affirmation, jesus declared 'no one except the father have the knowledge' note in the context that he is not making a case for his bodily form,because 'the fulness of deity lives in him bodily'

Mark 13:32 "No one knows about that day or hour, not even the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father.

fast pls!

Have you read my response to honeychild? Do you at least agree that Isaiah 9:6 refers to Jesus Christ?

For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

@Mr Anony

you seemed to be too slow in your replies,

ok, ponder on these to add to your replies!; here we go again and more on the way!


Paul does not depict Jesus as co-equal with God, but instead says that God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― is of superior rank to Jesus,

“But I would have you know that the head of every man in Christ and the head of the woman is the man and [b]the head of Christ [/b]is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3).

Paul puts a considerable strain on “trinitarianism” when he clearly distinguishes between God and Jesus by saying,

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5 KJV)

Paul did not indicate any change in the nature of God as he wrote:

“A mediator is not a mediator of one, BUT GOD IS ONE.” (Galatians 3:20 KJV)

The disciples viewed Jesus as the “one mediator between God and men,” not as God himself, but two separate beings.

While Jesus is often called the Son of God, nobody in the first century ever thought of him as being a deity. Paul confirms this relationship as he wrote:

“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort.” (2Corinthians 1:3 KJV)

The idea of a trinity is not even present in the Church of Jerusalem when Peter, leader of the church wrote:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:3 KJV)

The idea of a trinity is a man-made concept, just like all Abrahamic Derivative Religions (ADR). The trinity only came into being in the 4th Century, when the Constantine in 325 CE started talking about it as a way, a common bond, to unite vast Roman kingdoms (Eastern and Western). Since the concept of multiple gods had been prevalent for a thousand years, i.e. trinity(s), it was easy for emperor Theodosius I (February 27, 380 CE) to declare Christianity ― the Father, Son and Holy Ghost ― the only legitimate imperial religion.

However, the Eastern Orthodox Christians disagree with Roman Catholics and other western Christians over the text of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed because they claim that the “Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.” The Roman Catholics maintain this is not true because the “Holy Spirit also proceeds from the son.” All, DELUSIONAL IDIOTS!

So when was Jesus God? Jesus lived for 33 years. When was he God? Some say when he preformed miracles. That is no documented proof, besides many other people performed miracles. So, when was Jesus god ― Invisible Man in the Sky?

· At birth?

· When the bird appeared at baptism?

· On the mount?

· In the garden?

· On the cross?

· Upon death? or perhaps

· At ascension?

Where in the New Testament does the holy Christian god-given bible clearly say when Jesus became God? No other religion tells of their God dying. Please explain how a God can die?

Christians say this is not true.

“That whosoever believes in him (Jesus) should not perish but have everlasting life” and

“He that believes on him (Jesus) is not condemned but he that believes not is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:16 & 18KJV)

ijawkid:

Without question,this is the great mystery of our faith....and what is that mystery...??that Christ Ór Gods firstborn came down to the earth and was seen by people......na lie??........I'm happy you knw theos wasn't in that verse....

why na? Look at verse 15, it never stated Christ but God! If v15 was not existing refering to God, but vs 13-14, then sure, it would be ok. But it said "living God"!

UPDATE
1 Tim 3:13-16
13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:

He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit,was seen by angels,was preached among the nations,was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. NIV

This what i mean, removing vs 14-15, then the He aka "who/which" will be refering to Christ. but what i read, shows the living God!

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
NIV

ijawkid:

Hmmm....I can see you still have a big problem with the title" GOD"...because for you to still be reading isaiah 9:6 with the thought that the child who was to be born and that is to be called mighty God is equal to the almighty God that sent him....you really need help bro....I'm happy the prophet isaiah wasn't a trinitarian who would have thought Jesus(the messiah) was equal to the 1 Yahweh he worshipped..........the next time you find yourself confused always know that Yahweh is the almighty GOD.....which makes him greater than Jesus.....

Besides you haven't answered this very important question....

Did GOD die??can GOD die??

So there are now two Gods in the bible abi? one is Almighty while the other is mighty? So when in the next chapter, Isaiah says that the remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God (Isaiah 10:21) which God is he referring to? You also forgot that the child will be called Everlasting Father abi? Look at the extents you have to go defend your dogma.

Can God die? No God cannot die in the sense of God ceasing to exist.
The question I think you should ask is: Can God become man? Yes and He did.
Can man die? Yes and God in the form of man died.

Lol...this statement is so contradictory....nobody has seen GOD,but we have seen him in the flesh??.....then how is it nobody has seen God??even Jesus said nobody has seen him...it means Jesus lied......mr anony...NOBODY has seen GOD...if you choose to evade this truth then you aint a sincere person....

No it is not. The statement specifies the form in which God was seen. It is similar to saying "nobody has seen Ijawkid but we have seen him in a video"

But I just told the truth...the kjv's rendering of that vÉrse is spurious.....there was nothing like the word ""theos" used in that verse.......

I also told you the truth usually verses are spurious whenever they disagree with your bias. Name one "unspurious" translation and I can assure you that I will show you evidence of the multi-personal nature of God from it.

hisblud: why na? Look at verse 15, it never stated Christ but God! If v15 was not existing refering to God, but vs 13-14, then sure, it would be ok. But it said "living God"!

UPDATE
1 Tim 3:13-16
13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in
Christ Jesus.

16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:

He appeared in a body, was vindicated by the Spirit,was seen by angels,was preached among the nations,was believed on in the world, was taken up in glory. NIV

This what i mean, removing vs 14-15, then the He aka "who/which" will be refering to Christ. but what i read, shows the living God!

1 Tim 3:15
if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.
NIV

You are the one not understanding that whole chapter....you seem not to know how to distinguish between Jesus and his GOD....hÓw does the expression ""church of the living GOD" mean that Jesus is that living GOD??....remember when the apostles and many identified Jesus as son of the living GOD and not Jesus being the living GOD......your failure to read those verses well devoid of your false trinity dogma plus the kjv spurious rendering has made you to think Jesus is the living GOD...you err full time bro...now I ask......can the living GOD die.??...if you guys can't answer this question I'll just abandon this thread........smh!!!

BARRISTERS: @Mr Anony

you seemed to be too slow in your replies,

ok, ponder on these to add to your replies!; here we go again and more on the way!


Paul does not depict Jesus as co-equal with God, but instead says that God ― the Invisible Man in the Sky ― is of superior rank to Jesus,

“But I would have you know that the head of every man in Christ and the head of the woman is the man and [b]the head of Christ [/b]is God” (1 Corinthians 11:3).

Paul puts a considerable strain on “trinitarianism” when he clearly distinguishes between God and Jesus by saying,

“For there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.” (1 Timothy 2:5 KJV)

Paul did not indicate any change in the nature of God as he wrote:

“A mediator is not a mediator of one, BUT GOD IS ONE.” (Galatians 3:20 KJV)

The disciples viewed Jesus as the “one mediator between God and men,” not as God himself, but two separate beings.

While Jesus is often called the Son of God, nobody in the first century ever thought of him as being a deity. Paul confirms this relationship as he wrote:

“Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies and the God of all comfort.” (2Corinthians 1:3 KJV)

The idea of a trinity is not even present in the Church of Jerusalem when Peter, leader of the church wrote:

“Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.” (1 Peter 1:3 KJV)

The idea of a trinity is a man-made concept, just like all Abrahamic Derivative Religions (ADR). The trinity only came into being in the 4th Century, when the Constantine in 325 CE started talking about it as a way, a common bond, to unite vast Roman kingdoms (Eastern and Western). Since the concept of multiple gods had been prevalent for a thousand years, i.e. trinity(s), it was easy for emperor Theodosius I (February 27, 380 CE) to declare Christianity ― the Father, Son and Holy Ghost ― the only legitimate imperial religion.

However, the Eastern Orthodox Christians disagree with Roman Catholics and other western Christians over the text of the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed because they claim that the “Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.” The Roman Catholics maintain this is not true because the “Holy Spirit also proceeds from the son.” All, DELUSIONAL IDIOTS!

So when was Jesus God? Jesus lived for 33 years. When was he God? Some say when he preformed miracles. That is no documented proof, besides many other people performed miracles. So, when was Jesus god ― Invisible Man in the Sky?

· At birth?

· When the bird appeared at baptism?

· On the mount?

· In the garden?

· On the cross?

· Upon death? or perhaps

· At ascension?

Where in the New Testament does the holy Christian god-given bible clearly say when Jesus became God? No other religion tells of their God dying. Please explain how a God can die?

Christians say this is not true.

“That whosoever believes in him (Jesus) should not perish but have everlasting life” and

“He that believes on him (Jesus) is not condemned but he that believes not is condemned already because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.” (John 3:16 & 18KJV)

As I said, read my first response to honeychild.

Also, points of correction:

My God is the Almighty Eternal Being not "an invisible man in the sky".

Second point of correction: Christ's existence is eternal not 33 years.

Third point of correction: Christ is God. He did not become God.

Fourth point of correction: Christ was literally worshiped by his disciples (obviously He was deity)

Anyway sha just read my response to honeychild first. It deals with most of the issues you have raised. I will still provide more from the bible's teaching.

Mr_Anony:
Lol, It is interesting how your "truth of the rendering" migrates from translation to translation as long as it helps your bias. For instance if I quote 1John 5:7 for you from the KJV, "the truth of the rendering" will immediately pack her bags and run away to another translation.

I can challenge you to pick one translation where the "truth of the rendering" stays put but you won't because if your "truth of the rendering" stays one place, wahala go dey.

The day you people stop trying to make the bible to say what you want it to say by looking for amendable translations, that same day you will begin to understand the bible.

you dont care for God and his ability to write a book that does not contradict itself.
If you do, consistency of scripture will matter to you.

If you and i can write a book that does not contradict itself how much more God?

The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom.

It should be our concern that a translation does not contradict itself, it should be our watch word, but no, it is a translation that suit our bias/doctrine.

Why cant God write a book that is consistent from Genesis to revelation?

Please yourself, but i will not wish that any bible translation should contradict other part of the same bible, if it does i will point it out as something wrong.

Mr_Anony:
So there are now two Gods in the bible abi? one is Almighty while the other is mighty? So when in the next chapter, Isaiah says that the remnant will return, the remnant of Jacob, To the Mighty God (Isaiah 10:21) which God is he referring to? You also forgot that the child will be called Everlasting Father abi? Look at the extents you have to go defend your dogma.

""The mighty GOD"" right??...and in Jesus' case isaiah said he would be called ""mighty God"" and not the mighty GOD of the isrealites...the previous verse 20 mentions Yahweh as the holy one of isreal and GOD of isreal...Jesus isn't... ......scriptures both old and new testament further tells us that Yahweh is the almighty(God of gods) GOD and the only true GOD....

Joshua 22:22...
##Holman Christian Standard Bible (©2009)
Yahweh is the God of gods! Yahweh is the God
of gods! He knows, and may Israel also know.
Do not spare us today, if it was in rebellion or
treachery against the LORD


##Darby Bible Translation
The ùGod of gods, Jehovah, the ùGod of gods,
Jehovah, he knoweth, and Israel he shall know
it; if it is in rebellion, or if in trespass against
Jehovah, save us not this day!


##Douay-Rheims Bible
The Lord the most mighty God, the Lord the
most mighty God, he knoweth, and Israel also
shall understand: If with the design of
transgression we have set up this altar, let
him not save us, but punish us immediately:
_______________________________
Those verses up there shows you how Yahweh is reffered to when the word EL is used...
_______________________________


Jesus said to be called EL gibbor in no way makes him the almighty or an equal to the almighty....EL gibbor is a title or name that powerful men can bear......we can render that ""mighty GOD"" in that verse as mighty hero or mighty champion..Jesus was entrusted with power and rulership so as to fulfill Yahwehs purposes...
In the book of ezekiel 32:21 that same expression ""EL GIBBOR"" was used but trinitarian translators chose to render it in the plural form as ""mighty leaders"", ""mighty chiefs"" ,"" warrior leaders"" and never for once taught these human leaders were Mighty GOds in the same sense trinitarians would want to feel about isaiah 9:6......may I also remind you that angel ""gabriel's"" name springs from the same root word ""EL GIBBOR""??....my brother Jesus to be called EL gibbor does not and will never make him equal to the almighty God,the God and Father of Jesus,....
_______________________________

......When Jesus is said to be called everlasting Father all you shoulda done is find out what it means........

Mr_Anony:
Can God die? No God cannot die in the sense of God ceasing to exist.
The question I think you should ask is: Can God become man? Yes and He did.
Can man die? Yes and God in the form of man died.

Lol...you fail and err bro...God cannot become man...never...God cannot be seen to start with more or else become man and then die...you have downgraded the almighty because of your rubbish doctrine.......I just wanna hear you say YES God can die...trying to use logic here won't help because we are talking about the almighty.....God has never been a man....you ERR big time....

Mr_Anony:
No it is not. The statement specifies the form in which God was seen. It is similar to saying "nobody has seen Ijawkid but we have seen him in a video"

Lol....
And then the video further becomes ijawkid himself..abi??merging your illustration with the issue at hand we can conclude that the video itself people watched was ijawkid himself.....because you guys are pressing that Jesus is the almighty and only true GOD who came in flesh,just as we can say that the video of me is ME..........

besides Jesus wasnt a video player that played Yahwehs life,rather Jesus reflected and showed all what his GOD has taught him..I don't see how that makes Jesus GOD himself...

Mr_Anony:
I gave a response to honeychild a few posts above. I think you should take the time to read it. Also you keep misrepresenting Trinity. God is not 3 Gods. God is one multi-personal being.

You can't defend this your trinity definition. The multipersonal beings are they ordinary beings or are they Gods, ie each of them God in one God? Is the "one God" a title or a being that is multipersonal?

Check all the meanings of the word "by," you will see also that by=through when two or more is involved. God created all things and He created all things by Jesus. That God created everything Christ is out of love just like He asked Adam to name everything He made on earth.

God has no beginning but Christ has a beginning and was with God in the beginning. It is still in the same beginning that God created heaven and earth. Christ is the firstborn of God's creation.

Everything you said about Christ in your post is something a being like God can do. My post showed you who one God is, who the israelites worshipped as their one God. You can't say anything against it and it seriously debunked trinity.

Mr_Anony:
Wow! I was actually (and still am) in the process of typing out a continuation to my "sermon" when I saw this.

You say you don't want a scripture slinging match but then immediately proceed to sling a number of scriptures of your own and demand that I comment. How dishonest of you.

It is because I don't want to throw scriptures up and down against each other that I have proceeded to type the "long sermon" that you refused to read.

I don't believe that scripture contradicts each other and that is why I started with a background explaining who exactly Jesus is and why Jesus is God.

I don't think this argument will be of any benefit to us if on the one hand I take your comments seriously and take my time to give detailed responses while you just sit back and ignore it without even reading it throw out more verses then demand more answers.

Most of the verses you are slinging here are easily explained when you consider that Christ on earth was operating in humility having given up His God privileges to come to earth in the form of man and after He had served His mission, He went back to His position in the Godhead.

I suggest you take the time and read my previous response to you - also open your bible and take time to study the person of Christ don't just scout the bible for verses to throw at people, study it for yourself. Check if there is anywhere I am mistaken or have misrepresented what the bible actually means and point it out to me - and then we can continue. There is still more to come but first you must read what I have already written

what kind of sense did you make with that your over long epistle?
All you did is force your opinion on scriptures that are saying different thing all together.

If you have made a point that will push this matter your way, we will not have ignored it as irrelevant. Try again, but this time, make sense though

@anony...you said I should ask myself if GOD can become a man??...and my answer is NO...God can never become a man neither was he ever a man...Jesus himself confirmed this @ john 4:24 when he said:::

John 4:24

King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a SPIRIT: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and in truth.
_______________________________

How can Jesus who was the almighty GOD in flesh make this statement.....would it not be mad for one to think GOD can become a man,but Jesus here is saying otherwise??.....

GOD is a spirit which nobody has seen neither can he become a man and then die......for you to even think of asking me such a useless question shows the poor state the trinity dogma has left you....

hisblud:
To start with, the THEOS am refering is in v15 not in v16!

And i stated emphatically, that in the "correctly rendered" NIV, the "He" in vs16 is "Hos" which in greek means "who/which". Thus apply your logic to it using the above first as i have stated.

am not changing from the 2 verses,by bringing in another verse so am still on 1 tim 3:15-16.

Now i have asked you to discard the word "trinity". Now in verse 16 it says in the "correctly rendered" NIV, 1 Tim 3:16 Without question, this is the great mystery of our faith:

Look closely at the bolded, what do you see/read!*

how can a discussion of whether Jesus is Yahweh be centered on a title God?

Is the word god not a tile that even Jesus and Yahwe bear?

So, in the investigation as to whether Jesus is Yahweh, we cannot be arguing with titles..

This is childs play.

[Quote]hÓw does the expression ""church of the living GOD" mean that Jesus is that living GOD??[/Quote] i never SAID that. All i said is lets stay on context. Vs 15 says living God!vs 16 says "who/which" and when you join them, what do you get - the living God who/which appeared in the flesh. Remember, i accepted and using your "unspurious" NIV and its still saying the same thing.

now I ask......can the living GOD die.??..

i have told you, am staying with 1 tim 3.15-16.

truthislight:

how can a discussion of whether Jesus is Yahweh be centered on a title God?

Is the word god not a tile that even Jesus and Yahwe bear?

So, in the investigation as to whether Jesus is Yahweh, we cannot be arguing with titles..

This is childs play.

So THEOS now is a title? so the "God" used here by paul was a title in vs 15 of the NIV hmm! Moreover, remeber am basing everything on NIV not the KJV, and reading from vs 15, it stated THEOS in Greek, in the Hebrew rendering, it would be rendered, YHWH! Then coming to v16, the "He" in context will be refering to the YHWH in vs 15.

For e.g
scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: He saw abigail and called out to her.

thus from the above, the "He" in Scene 2 would be refering to James in scene 1.

but if we have it in this way

scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: Paul drove in his car.
scene 3:He saw abigail and called out to her.

contextually, the "He" would not be refering to James but Paul. You get my drift.

Scene 1
v13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

Scene 2:
14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Scene 3:
16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:

He appeared in a body,
NIV

Boomark:

You can't defend this your trinity definition. The multipersonal beings are they ordinary beings or are they Gods, ie each of them God in one God? Is the "one God" a title or a being that is multipersonal?

Check all the meanings of the word "by," you will see also that by=through when two or more is involved. God created all things and He created all things by Jesus. That God created everything Christ is out of love just like He asked Adam to name everything He made on earth.

God has no beginning but Christ has a beginning and was with God in the beginning. It is still in the same beginning that God created heaven and earth. Christ is the firstborn of God's creation.

Everything you said about Christ in your post is something a being like God can do. My post showed you who one God is, who the israelites worshipped as their one God. You can't say anything against it and it seriously debunked trinity.

If Christ as you claim has a beginning, then how come He refers to Himself in Revelations as the First and the Last.

“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life" Rev 2:8

compare to this verse:

"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last." Isaiah 48:12

Are there now two different Alpha and Omega in heaven? or is it one God having multiple personhood?


Sometimes I wonder how folks like you, Ijawkid, Barrister et al can read verses like these and still claim that Jesus is not God. It makes me wonder if it is not the same bible we are all reading.

If your problem is how a being can be multi-personal then say so but don't ever say that Christ is not God because He is and you would have to deny a whole load of scripture to hold on to that position.



Mind you, the Son is not the same person as God the Father They are two different persons but both of them together with the Holy Spirit are one being. I wish you had seen the video I posted. It tries to explain what it means to be multi-personal and it uses a very interesting analogy.
Ihedinobi also has given a good illustration of God's nature on this forum by comparing Him to man's trinity of body, soul and spirit. All are the same man but yet the spirit is distinct from the soul and the soul is distinct from the body

hisblud:
So THEOS now is a title? so the "God" used here by paul was a title in vs 15 of the NIV hmm! Moreover, remeber am basing everything on NIV not the KJV, and reading from vs 15, it stated THEOS in Greek, in the Hebrew rendering, it would be rendered, YHWH! Then coming to v16, the "He" in context will be refering to the YHWH in vs 15.

For e.g
scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: He saw abigail and called out to her.

thus from the above, the "He" in Scene 2 would be refering to James in scene 1.

but if we have it in this way

scene 1: James was going to school.
Scene 2: Paul drove in his car.
scene 3:He saw abigail and called out to her.

contextually, the "He" would not be refering to James but Paul. You get my drift.

Scene 1
v13 Those who have served well gain an excellent standing and great assurance in their faith in Christ Jesus.

Scene 2:
14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that, 15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God's household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.


Scene 3:
16 Beyond all question, the mystery of godliness is great:

He appeared in a body,
NIV

I can really see what your problem is.....you have programmed your trinitarian brain to always think that pronoÙns mÙst always refer to the immediate antecedent and not thÉ contextual antecedent........your analogy or the example you gave about james going to school and then later paul driving a car..then scene 3 the pronoun "he" was used in showing someone called abigail....you concluded that it must be paul the immediate antecedent,but I say NO... it is very possible it is james who called her..............
______________________________
Now let's look at the scripture under consideration....

If verse 13 did talk about those who have put faith in Jesus ,then verses 14 $ 15 then talks about Gods house hold and chÙrch of the LIVING GOD,why would you think that versÉ 16 using the pronoun "who"/"which" or "he" must refer to the immediate antecedent ,thereby claiming that Jesus is the living GOD.....??.....besides verse 16 was pointing straigth at the fact that the mystery of godliness is Christ and not The living GOD himself...

Let us check up some fÉw examples in the scriptures to clarify issues as to wether when pronoÙns are used it must refer to the immediate antecedent even when we know it doesn't.....

The example below still comes from the same write"" paul"" who penned down those words at 1 timothy 3:16.. ____________________________
Acts 4:10,11:::
King James Version (KJV)
10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the
people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus
Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom
God raised from the dead, even by him doth
this man stand here before you whole.
11" This" is the stone which was set at nought of
you builders, which is become the head of the
corner.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
The pronoun "this" clearly does not refer to the man who was healed,though he is the one mentioned just before "houtus" or "" this"..I would be mad to think the healed man is the head of the corner stone(Jesus) just because he was the immediate antecedent before the pronoun was used,..the same way you ran into conclusion about the "he" in 1 timothy 3:16 being GOD,you can do the same in the book of acts and see the disastrous outcome.........

____________________________
Let's have another example.:::
2 john 7::::
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
For many deceivers have gone out into the
world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus
Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the
deceiver and the antichrist.
««««««««««««««««««««««««««
Here the pronoun used cannot be reffering to the closest antecedent(JESUS)...Jesus can't be the anti-christ rather it was those who denied Jesus........
__________________________
Those are just few examples including 1 timothy 3:16....the issue now is with your type who because of the false trinity dogma would assume and conclude that "theos" should be inserted in 1 timothy 3:16 or that the pronoun must be reffering to the closest antecedent,which was the LIVING GOD mentioned in verse 15 you need to do a re-think... ...because in your wayo hearts you have concluded that Jesus is the living GOD,you would embrace the kjv's rendering......but sorry bro...we all know who the true GOD is..he's no other person that YAHWEH the Father and GOD of Jesus.....paul in 1 timothy 3:16 was only telling the congregations or church that the mystery of godliness isn't the LIVING GOD himself but was CHRIST whom the LIVING GOD has sent.....colossians 1:27 tells who exactly this mystery is...you can read rather than hold on to a verse that proves nothing about the trinity......
___________________________
If till this moment you can't fully distinguish between who the LIVING GOD is and who CHRIST is then you need serious help.........

ijawkid: @anony...you said I should ask myself if GOD can become a man??...and my answer is NO...God can never become a man neither was he ever a man...Jesus himself confirmed this @ john 4:24 when he said:::

John 4:24

King James Version (KJV)
24 God is a SPIRIT: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and in truth.

Lol, so now KJV is no longer spurious abi? God is not a man by nature but He can take the form of a man.

The verse you quoted has no bearing on my argument because I never said God is a man. I said God became flesh i.e. took the form of a man. Do you want to argue that it is impossible for God to do this?

truthislight:

you dont care for God and his ability to write a book that does not contradict itself.
If you do, consistency of scripture will matter to you.

If you and i can write a book that does not contradict itself how much more God?

The fear of Yahweh is the beginning of wisdom.

It should be our concern that a translation does not contradict itself, it should be our watch word, but no, it is a translation that suit our bias/doctrine.

Why cant God write a book that is consistent from Genesis to revelation?

Please yourself, but i will not wish that any bible translation should contradict other part of the same bible, if it does i will point it out as something wrong.

Well said, now all I need you to do is provide for us a translation that to you is "non-contradictory" and we can limit ourselves to it. Over to you.

Mr_Anony:
Lol, so now KJV is no longer spurious abi? God is not a man by nature but He can take the form of a man.

The verse you quoted has no bearing on my argument because I never said God is a man. I said God became flesh i.e. took the form of a man. Do you want to argue that it is impossible for God to do this?

GOD cannot not take the form of a man because one of GODs attribute is being invincible(nver can be seen)...don't you get it??.....YES I argue that it is impossible for GOD to become man just as it is impossible for God to lie....don't force your philosophy on GOD...............if Jesus who was GOD as you claim opened his mouth to tell the JÉws that GOD is a §pirit,that fully shows Jesus wasn't GOD.......Jesus there and then proved that it is impossible for GOD to be a man or take the form of a man because he cannot be seen...........hope you get the point??...........like i sÀid don't squeeze your spurious philosophies into this............

ijawkid:

GOD cannot not take the form of a man because one of GODs attribute is being invincible(nver can be seen)...don't you get it??.....YES I argue that it is impossible for GOD to become man just as it is impossible for God to lie....don't force your philosophy on GOD...............if Jesus who was GOD as you claim opened his mouth to tell the JÉws that GOD is a §pirit,that fully shows Jesus wasn't GOD.......Jesus there and then proved that it is impossible for GOD to be a man or take the form of a man because he cannot be seen...........hope you get the point??...........like i sÀid don't squeeze your spurious philosophies into this............

You are making up your own theology here my friend. Nowhere in the bible does it say that God cannot take the form of a man nor is there anything in the bible that tells us that a spirit cannot take the form of a man.

So my friend I wonder how you jumped to the conclusion that God being a Spirit automatically means that He cannot take the form of a man. You need to provide scripture for this this because the bible shows us numerous times where spirits take on a form of flesh. Why are you insisting that God is limited in that ability?

Yes God in His true Spirit form cannot be seen by human eyes but He can take the form of a man and He did in the person of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, we are promised that a time will come when we shall see God.

Even more, God has been seen through visions a number of times in the bible.


Where exactly are you getting this your theology from?

Mr_Anony:
You are making up your own theology here my friend. Nowhere in the bible does it say that God cannot take the form of a man nor is there anything in the bible that tells us that a spirit cannot take the form of a man.

So my friend I wonder how you jumped to the conclusion that God being a Spirit automatically means that He cannot take the form of a man. You need to provide scripture for this this because the bible shows us numerous times where spirits take on a form of flesh. Why are you insisting that God is limited in that ability?

Yes God in His true Spirit form cannot be seen by human eyes but He can take the form of a man and He did in the person of Jesus Christ.

Furthermore, we are promised that a time will come when we shall see God.

Even more, God has been seen through visions a number of times in the bible.


Where exactly are you getting this your theology from?

And Jesus' words are right in front of you proving that no one has seen GOD...so stressing that GOD took the form of a man in the person of Jesus is a fraud........people saw Jesus with there korokoro eyes,something that Jesus himself said has never happened and can never happen with GOD.......you have thrown away a profound truth and fact that no one has seen God..........Jesus was seen and touched by people....Jesus can't be GOD for the last time....no one has seen GOD at anytime.....

God has never taken the form of a man...NEVER!!!!!..........and God has never for once in his life died......this is why I am saying discard that spurious philosophy of yours,its making you sound childish............like I said earlier ,God can choose to lie if he wants to..GOD can't be limited to lieing,but as we know it is impossible for GOD to lie...its one of his attributes....so also God cannot be seen,that is why Jesus reiterated by saying no one has seen GOD.....ANONY can you for once accept Jesus' words??..........
____________________________
You said God has been seen in visions a couple of times ...right??........how does that support your stand that man has seen God when Jesus said no man has seen GOD??................

Let's see the definition of vision..
vi·sion
[vizh-uh n]

-n.

1. an experience in which a personage, thing, or event appears vividly or credibly to the mind, although not actually present, often under the influence of a divine or other agency: a heavenly messenger appearing in a vision. ...............
______________________________

Jesus was a physical being when on earth and not a vision.....people touched Jesus,ate with him and even killed him........that can't happen with GOD........

____________________________
YES we are promised we will see GOD,but that would be when you go to heaven......tell me you don't know that??...........ANONY::: NO man has ever seen GOD........

1 john 4:12...
New International Version (©1984)
No one has ever seen God; but if we love one
another, God lives in us and his love is made
complete in us.
<<<<««««««««««««««««
John 6:46
No one has seen the Father except the one
who is from God; only he has seen the Father.
______________________________

Mr anony I would love to end this blind argument with you...you have shown gross disrespect for the only true GOD by saying he became flesh(took human form) and died....if I ever take you serious again then I might as weLl go have my crania checked.....smh,!!!!!.........keep holding on to the trinity delusion..........

You have infact said
1....God has been seen...in opposition to Jesus' words that says no one has seen GOD and that GOD is a spirit(Jesus made that statement when on earth so how could he be the GOD he was talking about?)
2...That GOD died.....

ijawkid:

And Jesus' words are right in front of you proving that no one has seen GOD...so stressing that GOD took the form of a man in the person of Jesus is a fraud........people saw Jesus with there korokoro eyes,something that Jesus himself said has never happened.......you have thrown away a profound truth and fact that no one has seen God..........Jesus was seen and touched by people....Jesus can't be GOD for the last time....no one has seen GOD at anytime.....

God has never taken the form of a man...NEVER!!!!!..........and God has never for once in his life died......this is why I am saying discard that spurious philosophy of yours,its making you sound childish............like I said earlier ,God can choose to lie if he wants to..GOD can't be limited to lieing,but as we know it is impossible for GOD to lie...its one of his attributes....so also God cannot be seen,that is why Jesus reiterated by saying no one has seen GOD.....ANONY can you for once accept Jesus' words??..........
____________________________
You said God has been seen in visions a couple of times ...right??........how does that support your stand that man has seen God when Jesus said no man has seen GOD??................

Let's see the definition of vision..
vi·sion
[vizh-uh n]

-n.

1. an experience in which a personage, thing, or event appears vividly or credibly to the mind, although not actually present, often under the influence of a divine or other agency: a heavenly messenger appearing in a vision. ...............
______________________________

Jesus was a physical being when on earth and not a vision.....people touched Jesus,ate with him and even killed him........that can't happen with GOD........

“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life" Rev 2:8

Compare with

"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last." Isaiah 48:12

Mr_Anony:
“And to the angel of the church in Smyrna write, ‘These things says the First and the Last, who was dead, and came to life" Rev 2:8

Compare with

"Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last." Isaiah 48:12

From revelation 2:8 that says Jesus died,can GOD die??......

Taking you serious is a waste of time........

You have neglected all the attributes of GOD just because of the trinity dogma...

You conclude:.
1...God can die and GOD died.
2...God was seen ,when in reality no one has seen GOD.....
______________________________
It was nice discussing with you........I don't worship a God who has died before or that was killed.........

That is not the GOD Jesus himself worshipped.........that is not the GOD the isrealites worship.....

ijawkid:

From revelation 2:8 that says Jesus died,can GOD die??......

Taking you serious is a waste of time........

You have neglected all the attributes of GOD just because of the trinity dogma...

You conclude:.
1...God can die and GOD died.
2...God was seen ,when in reality no one has seen GOD.....
______________________________
It was nice discussing with you........I don't worship a God who has died before or that was killed.........

That is not the GOD Jesus himself worshipped.........that is not the GOD the isrealites worship.....

Lol, so Jesus is also the First and Last yet He is not God?

Mr_Anony:
Lol, so Jesus is also the First and Last yet He is not God?

Jesus is the first and last in that he was the first person to be ressurected by GOD and granted immortality.........he is also the 1st born of Gods creation......that is how Jesus is the 1st and last in revelations..
_____________________________

Once again I reiterate::::

GOD has never been seen and GOD cannot die.....take your false message out of this place..........
____________________________
You still haven't answered barristers question why Jesus who is presumably GOD according to you does not know the day and hour when the end will come,but only the Almighty??.......you still have much questions to answer...but as usual you would run around with your wack philosophies............

From this moment I'll cease discussing the trinity with you....you have reduced GOD to a man that was once seen and killed........I won't be surprised when one day you say GOD can lie,....that it is possible for GOD to lie since nothing is impossible for him to do........

ijawkid:

From revelation 2:8 that says Jesus died,can GOD die??......

Taking you serious is a waste of time........

You have neglected all the attributes of GOD just because of the trinity dogma...

You conclude:.
1...God can die and GOD died.
2...God was seen ,when in reality no one has seen GOD.....
______________________________
It was nice discussing with you........I don't worship a God who has died before or that was killed.........

That is not the GOD Jesus himself worshipped.........that is not the GOD the isrealites worship.....

My dear friend, you have argued a strawman. I have not said God can die neither have I said that God is not invisible. All I have said is that God came in the form of a man and that man was seen by many, He lived and walked the earth, He was killed and after 3 days He resurrected. His name is Jesus Christ. He is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, The Almighty Lord of Hosts and God of all creation.

I worship a God who loved me so much that He humbled Himself and took the form of a man in order to reconcile me and you to Himself.

I have watched you jump from translation to translation on this forum. I have watched you declare translations as spurious and re-interpret verses of scripture just because they don't suit your bias. I have watched you even admit to multiple gods and say that even though Christ is named "Mighty God", there is another God called "Almighty God". I have watched you try to rephrase simple English phrases all in the bid to hold unto your bias.

Please I beg you, don't be so blinded by your "anti-trinity" war that you miss out on who God is entirely.

ijawkid:

Jesus is the first and last in that he was the first person to be ressurected by GOD and granted immortality.........he is also the 1st born of Gods creation......that is how Jesus is the 1st and last in revelations..

Lol, seriously where did you get that from?

You still haven't answered barristers question why Jesus who is presumably GOD according to you does not know the day and hour when the end will come,but only the Almighty??.......you still have much questions to answer...but as usual you would run around with your wack philosophies............

I told Barristers to read my answer to honeychild and I suggest you read it too because once you come to terms with the fact that Christ gave up His God privileges and humbled Himself to become a man, His limitations during His human lifetime immediately cease to be an issue.

From this moment I'll cease discussing the trinity with you....you have reduced GOD to a man that was once seen and killed........I won't be surprised when one day you say GOD can lie,....that it is possible for GOD to lie since nothing is impossible for him to do........

Strawman

From ANONY's view of God ,that we can't limit Gods abilities he is indirectly saying that GOD can do anything even if it is not who GOD is or part of Gods attributes...........

Pointing out facts like
1..God cannot die..
2.God can and has never been seen by man...

Anony through his philosophy has said it is possible for GOD to against who he is......
he(anony) forgets that in reality it is impossible for God to do somethings or undergo some things.....

1...It is impossible for GOD to lie..
2...It is impossible for GOD to be wicked..
3...It is impossible for GOD to have a head over him or a superior..
4...It is impossible for GOD to die(never).....
5...It is impossible for GOD to be imperfect...
6..It is impossible for any man to see GOD and live(God has always been a spirit and has never being a man at any point in through out his existence)......
Etc
_____________________________

We can't say that because there's nothing impossible for God to do so it is possible for GOD to do the impossible's mentioned above.......God is who he is...he can't contradict himself,but as we can see anony is doing the opposite....

This is the last time I'm gonna discuss this issue with anony......