hubreality:

@Poster. Your alert explicitly tells your unbelieve in God's word(Scriptures). Remember, at your exit from this planet, this golden financial system of they believers continues unto eternity. It's beyond any immaginations of mere mortals. Let God be true, and all men be liars. Be mindful of they seeds you sow for that will you reap. Who takes the tithe should not pose a problem.

I am not suprised that someone that as been thoroughly brain washed and worships that scammer A.K.A pastor chris would write the type of hogwash you just wrote. Did you bother to read my original post well and confirm all the scriptural references in it Every thing i wrote is based on the undiluted scripture and not twisted scripture that your pastor is known for. Open your eyes and stop wallowing in poverty of the mind. Set your self free from your captive cult. The truth is that you have a lot to learn from sir John

Kunle,stop being paranoid,paying tithes is not an heresy.You're exaggerating issues.I've told you before.No one will go to hell because he paid tithes.Heretics are running to hell

Image123:

Kunle,stop being paranoid,paying tithes is not an heresy.You're exaggerating issues.I've told you before.No one will go to hell because he paid tithes.Heretics are running to hell

Paying tithes on the basis of the mosaic law (i.e Malachi 3: 10) is not only very wrong but it is a sign of faithlessness and dis-believe in the final sacrifce which Jesus paid on our behalf. Hebrew 7: 5-18 makes it clear that christians are not meant to tithe based on law. However if any christian feels like giving out of his income based on free will he would be in order but if he is doing it based on law he is just wasting his money and demonstrating his lack of faith in christ Jesus who NEVER requested tithes of us. It is the greedy pators that preach compulsory tithing that are robbing God and his children and they would one day answer for it.

Image123:

Kunle,stop being paranoid,paying tithes is not an heresy.You're exaggerating issues.I've told you before.No one will go to hell because he paid tithes.Heretics are running to hell

You are rather the one exaggerating and twisting what has been written here and repeated just above here by Kunle, i.e.:

No one will go to hell if he pays tithe (10%) of his own volition without been coerced subtly or overtly to do so in reference to scriptures, especially Mal.3.
However, any pastor who compels his congregation to pay tithe or any other offering compulsorily cannot even be described as a CHRISTian and the words and works of Christ and His early Apostles as recorded in the New Testament are clear on this.
Maybe you want to dust up your Bible and read it again rather than feeding on the distortions spewed out by those who have made money-making their business under God's name.

gozilla

you talked about tithe being instituted by melchizedek b4 the law was given by moses.Do you also know that God also iinstituted circumcision as sign of the old covenant during the time of Abraham,yet paul condemed it as being part of the law.Today we do practice circumcision but it has got nothing to with religion but rather as a medical precaution.If you circumcise to fulfil the law you endanger your soul ,in the same way if you give ten percent of your income to fulfil the law you endanger your soul.If you have decided on ur own to give 10% ,it is very good but it is not compulsory and not a requirement for making heaven .Give out of your own volition as paul said in 2 cor9:7 ;

so let each one give as he purposes in his heart not grudgingly or of necessity for God loves a cheerful giver.

ANY PASTOR THAT THREATENS HIS MEMBER WITH MAL 3:8 IS A THIEF

Any one who wants to convince me to tithe should show me where Jesus or the Apostles gave or received tithe .Show me where christians practised tithing in the new testament.

gozzilla:

Nwa nna, i want to help you so listen with a open mind. First and foremost tithing is not a thing of the old testament, it came before the law. The first time tithe was mentioned was in Genesis, Abraham gave tithe to Melchizedek. Also in Genesis, Jacob also gave tithe to God. He said he will give tithe if God kept him in one piece.
This men all lived before the law was given to Moses.
Now you ask to see this principle in the new testament. Well tithe is not explicitly stated

You should have stopped here and not go on to wriggle and twist around further as quoted below:

gozzilla:

in the but for one giving and receiving is stated. Now God did not give a command in the new testament that what a man sows he will reap. Paul in Galatian simply stated the principle that God gave to Noah in Gen 8 that as long as the earth remains seed time and harvest shall not seize. That is not a old testament command. So also it is with tithing. It is a principle that guarantees God's hand in your finances, actually He said i will pour you a blessing, and rebuke the devourer.
I could go on and on, but that's why we have the bible and the holy Spirit he will enlighten your heart if you ask him to sincerely.

and how does reaping what you sow justify tithes in the new testament?
please note that sowing & reaping is a very generic principle and not a command.
if you disagree, please quote the exact reference you relied on in the new testament to make your inference.

anonimi,christians consider tithes as a type of sowing to reap greater things.

anonimi:

You are rather the one exaggerating and twisting what has been written here and repeated just above here by Kunle, i.e.:

No one will go to hell if he pays tithe (10%) of his own volition without been coerced subtly or overtly to do so in reference to scriptures, especially Mal.3.
However, any pastor who compels his congregation to pay tithe or any other offering compulsorily cannot even be described as a CHRISTian and the words and works of Christ and His early Apostles as recorded in the New Testament are clear on this.
Maybe you want to dust up your Bible and read it again rather than feeding on the distortions spewed out by those who have made money-making their business under God's name.

You're always funny or is it phoney.Why would you quote me and say you're quoting kunle,and then say that I am twisting kunle's words,and then you go ahead to remix/twist my words

I don't get it. Even if Malachi 3:10 told the Jews to bring their tithe (which wasn't money but farm produce) to the temple under the old testament, what's it to do with Christians? We (Gentiles)were never under the Law in the first place, were we? Those were Jewish laws and Jewish practices, weren't they? And Christ has redeemed Jews from the curse that the Law is to them.What has Malachi 3:10 to do with Christ? Christ and his disciples had a purse from which they gave to the poor. He took helping the poor very seriously. But nowhere did they advocate Christians tithing.

These pastors will cram your throat full of guilt and tell you to pay pay pay pay tithes.It's because you don't tithe that you're having so many problems and the enemy is attacking you. Pay tithes and then God will notice you're alive and bless you. You know how nterested God is in our money.

True, a church is an organisation and running it effectively takes money. But Christ is its foundation, isn't He? Pastors are not supposed to manipulate and deceive people into giving.It's a gross abuse of the simple trust and faith reposed in them by their flock, and these pastors will answer for it.

Image123:

anonimi,christians consider tithes as a type of sowing to reap greater things.

First of all i would like to remind you that true knowledgeable christians don't tithe, it is only gullible church goers who assume they are christians that tithe. Being a christian means being christ like and tithing is NOT an attribute of christ (at least not in the sense it is being preach today) christ would rather have used the tithes to take care of the needy and poor around him.

Image123:

You're always funny or is it phoney.Why would you quote me and say you're quoting kunle,and then say that I am twisting kunle's words,and then you go ahead to remix/twist my words

I guess it's either you did not understand my reference to Kunle's post or you just like being mischievious once in a while.

anonimi:

You are rather the one exaggerating and twisting what has been written here and repeated just above here by Kunle,

That was making reference to Kunle' post # 514 just above mine #515. Hope it is clear enough for you now.

So kunle,are you saying that anyone who pays tithes is not a christian?

Image123:

So kunle,are you saying that anyone who pays tithes is not a christian?

What I and others understand kunle to be saying in all his posts on tithe is that:

anyone who pays 10% (tithes) of his income to fulfil the law on tithes as laid out in the old testament is not Christ like and hence not a CHRSITian.
I hope that is clear enough for you to also understand and make the difference with your blanket statement above.
thus, it is not the payment of tithes that invalidates one from being a Christian but rather the belief basis for paying 10% of one's income.

@Anonimi
Thanx for assisting me with that clear and concise response.

@Image 123
christians are free to pay 10% of their income or tithes to the church but it must be done under a willing heart not based on the law, malachi3:10 or the threats of curses and blessings preahers use to extort tithes from their flock. It is wrong and evil for a preacher to encourage compulsory tithing in his church. the truth must be told at all times especially in the house of God.

KunleOshob:


@Image 123
christians are free to pay 10% of their income or tithes to the church but it must be done under a willing heart not based on the law, malachi3:10 or the threats of curses and blessings preahers use to extort tithes from their flock. It is wrong and evil for a preacher to encourage compulsory tithing in his church. the truth must be told at all times especially in the house of God.

Very well said Kunle

@kunleOshob

@Image 123
christians are free to pay 10% of their income or tithes to the church

Very well said KunleOshob

@Image123
I hope your above post is not an attempt to quote me out of context you should have highlighted the whole post like sir john did.

Any giving wether tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or what so ever must be from a willing and thanksfull heart. The truth is that folks often take issues to extremes making others develop a guilty conscience. If I decide to give a pastor a gift, it must be from a willing heart and my decision. It makes no sense to give and be complaining that one is compelled to give. Yes I give but nobody, no pastor can compel me to give. I think(personal thougths oh) Christians should shine their eyes  when giving. For what purpose am  I giving? I know a church that posted missionaries to several rural cities in Nigeria. A particular pastor in that church came up with thew idea of mission aid to help the missionaries. On designated sundays, offerings of cash, materials are taken and sent promptly to these missionaries.

ukotmi:

Any giving wether tithes, offerings, thanksgiving or what so ever must be from a willing and thanksfull heart. The truth is that folks often take issues to extremes making others develop a guilty conscience. If I decide to give a pastor a gift, it must be from a willing heart and my decision. It makes no sense to give and be complaining that one is compelled to give. Yes I give but nobody, no pastor can compel me to give. I think(personal thougths oh) Christians should shine their eyes  when giving. For what purpose am  I giving? I know a church that posted missionaries to several rural cities in Nigeria. A particular pastor in that church came up with thew idea of mission aid to help the missionaries. On designated sundays, offerings of cash, materials are taken and sent promptly to these missionaries.

very good initiative worthy of freewill support.
i hope they also set up schools and clinics at subsidised rates in these rural areas.

The word “tithe” literally means “tenth” and is commonly used to refer to the requirement to give ten percent of one’s income to God. However, from the outset, it should be noted that nowhere was money ever tithed. The tithe in the Old Testament always referred to produce from the ground or herds. Some may respond that this is the case because people lived in an agricultural society. While this is true, however, “money” is mentioned about thirty times in Genesis alone (e.g., Gen. 17: 12, 13, 23, 27; 31:15; 33:19; etc.). Therefore, before tithing is ever mentioned in the Mosaic Law (Lev. 27:30), money has been referred to about forty times. The last reference to money before tithing is mentioned in the Mosaic Law even provides rules for an ancient banking system (Lev. 25:37)!

Both Testaments view the tithe within the larger framework of giving and worship. Prior to the giving of the Mosaic Law, tithing was not a systematic, continual practice but an occasional, even exceptional, form of giving (Gen. 14:20; cf. Heb. 7:4; Gen. 28:22). The Mosaic Law includes stipulations regarding the Levitical, Festival, and Poor (or Welfare) Tithe (Lev. 27:30–33; Num. 18:21; Deut. 14:22–29). Taken together, the annual tithe of the Israelites surpassed ten percent of their income, totaling more than twenty percent. Of the seven references to tithing in the Old Testament historical and prophetic books, the most important is that in Mal. 3:8 (cf. 2 Chron. 31:5–6, 12; Neh. 10:38–39; 12:44–47; 13:5, 12; Amos 4:4), where people are told to bring their (Levitical) “tithes and offerings” into God’s “storehouse” and agricultural blessings are promised for those who comply.

It should be noted that in Malachi, the withholding of tithes was a sign of a larger pattern of disobedience. The tithe mentioned by the prophet is the Levitical Tithe (Num 18:21). The offerings to which reference is made were a primary source of livelihood for the priests and were required (not voluntary) offerings. The invitation to test God is limited to the context of Malachi 3 and should not be universalized. For this reason the promised (agricultural) reward, likewise, does not carry over to people who may tithe today. Moreover, if this passage were consistently applied today, offerings—that which tithing advocates refer to as the freewill portion of giving that occurs after one has tithed—are not of one’s free will, but required just as tithes are. Therefore, if someone were to give only ten percent (not that the Jews only gave ten percent), this person would still be in sin for robbing God of “offerings.”

References to tithing in the New Testament are limited to three passages. In Matt. 23:23, the Old Testament tithing requirement is presupposed for Jesus’ audience. The scribes and Pharisees are excoriated for prioritizing the minutiae of the Law over weightier matters. Jesus was not speaking to members of a church, but to Jews still under the Old Covenant and thus obligated to tithe. Similarly, Jesus in Luke 18:9–14 denounces inappropriate religious pride on the basis of observance of the Law. Hebrews 7, finally, addresses Abraham’s giving of a tenth to Melchizedek in the context of Melchizedek’s priesthood being superior to the Levitical one. None of these passages have tithing as their primary subject, and none command tithing for the new covenant era. The case for tithing on the basis of larger systematic-theological or pragmatic considerations likewise fails in that, similar to circumcision, Jesus fulfilled the tithing requirement and replaced it with a command for New Testament believers to give themselves to God and to give liberally of their means (1 Cor. 9:1–23; 16:1–4; 2 Cor. 8–9; Phil. 4:15–17).

Where does that leave New Testament believers? We are not saying that it is okay to neglect giving. In fact, the New Testament contains sufficient guidance for our giving. Second Corinthians 8 tells us that our giving should be relationship-driven, grace-driven, and love-driven. However, nothing is mentioned regarding ten percent. Furthermore, 1 Corinthians 16 teaches us that every believer should give; that they should give consistently or systematically (albeit there the reference is to a special collection); and that the amount is relative to one’s income. Second Corinthians 9 stipulates that the amount should be based upon one’s heart disposition (v. 7); that we should give in order to meet the needs of fellow-believers; and that our motivation should be thankfulness to God for all he has done for us. This is just a sampling of the many principles the New Testament gives for believers in order to direct them in their giving.

reference: TO TITHE OR NOT TO TITHE? (DAVID CROTEAU)

Omo, peeps still dey this tithing or no tithing issue. I guess this will never stop until the second coming of Christ himself , Jees man!

Ok, no be by force to do anything abi? No be by force to pay tithe, no be by force to even be a Christian in the first place. He that wants to tithe, let him tithe without the fear of curses from God. But he has to do it according to how God commanded in Deut. Men, chop up ur tithes Bro, wiv the needy, widowers, levites, orphans, foreigners, anyhow whichway. Just don't be left out in chopping your tithe with these people!

BTW: It's not even compulsory to be born again self!

how come no one has mentioned the names of the pastors/churches that exploit the people.

from the foregoing the pple that pay tithe beleive in it and they have no problem paying because one they are obedient and they receive blessings from being obedient, His ways are different from our ways, remember?

can one of you antagonists mention where people pay tithes and dont prosper.

if not keep your peace and put your efforts in suring we derive benefits from the govt for the taxes paid qed

p.s. no one shd use any rude words when replying to me. thank you

STFU!!

The issue of tithing is no doubt a very sensitive and equally very controversial one, that is why this thread has continued very actively for over a period of one year. I have spent hours going through people's views (4:35am) and I must confess that most of the contributions are very insightful and educative. A lot of people (I cannot beging to mention names) on both sides of the arqument took it upon themselves to research deeply on scriptures and other materials in other to come out with deep revelatons and far reaching comments.

If you are new to this discuss, I advise strongly you go back to earlier comments to get deeper and better understanding to the extent this issue has already been discussed and dealth with, because I feel any further discussion on this topic will probably be a repetition of views and comments already made. No doubt an interesting topic!

initiate:


can one of you antagonists mention where people pay tithes and dont prosper.

Do you need me to tell you that?? you have them in your church dude

initiate:

how come no one has mentioned the names of the pastors/churches that exploit the people.

from the foregoing the pple that pay tithe beleive in it and they have no problem paying because one they are obedient and they receive blessings from being obedient, His ways are different from our ways, remember?

can one of you antagonists mention where people pay tithes and dont prosper.

if not keep your peace and put your efforts in suring we derive benefits from the govt for the taxes paid qed

p.s. no one shd use any rude words when replying to me. thank you

Obedient to who a fellow man that is deceiving them
On the contrary can you mention one person that you know that prospers soley because he/she is paying tithes, you would also have to demonstrate how such a person is better off than others who don't pay.

That aside the issue here is that we are trying to tell people the whole bible based truth about tithes which most churches elect not to tell their congregation. Is what the bible defines as tithes what your church defines as tithes?? if yoou are not sure check deut14:22-29 for the biblical definiton of tithes. if you then insist on tithing, you must do it the biblical way. But even that is not necessary as the tithing law was set aside for christians in the book of hebrew7 :5, 11,12 &18

i dont know how else people wants to be told that tithes is an ilegal way for pastors to enrich themselves.

It needs to be established at the very outset here that this study does not teach against Christians giving into the work of God. It is about how they give - whether spontaneously, or by compulsion. A teaching persists in the contemporary church that Christians under grace in the New Testament are obligated to tithe as the Jews under the law had to tithe in the Old Testament. There are no defining scriptures anywhere in the Bible however, to validate such teaching. Nevertheless the proponents of tithing do use scriptures to argue their position.

None of this is teaching against New Testament Christians giving in to the work of God through their local church. Scriptures are very clear on the subject of giving - only those who sow into the Kingdom will reap the Kingdom benefits (Ga 6:6-10). Paul is defining God's law of sowing and reaping here. It applies to every aspect of the Christian walk: Christians giving of themselves, their finances and their time to others; their financial support of the ministry, their moral behaviour, and their Christian service. Ga 6:9-10 teaches that while ever Christians keep doing good, in spite of the opposition they may encounter, in due course they will reap the fruit of the harvest. And notwithstanding that they are to do good unto all men, they are to be particularly concerned with the well - being of other Christians (Mt 25:31-46). All Christian giving has to be as to God, the Christians' source, for whatever Christians do they are doing it as unto Jesus. Jesus equates Christians' treatment of those in need with their treatment of Himself: what Christians do for them, they do for Him. The Christian walk is not only a spiritual walk, it must also serve the material needs of others


It is the duty of all who are taught the word to help provide material support for those who teach the word. Those who minister the word are entitled to live off the word (1Cor 9:7-14; Ga 6:6; 3 Jn 5-. No workers of the word should have to seek help in any form outside the church. Christians have a duty, which should be seen as a privilege, to contribute to the needs of every worker of the word. They must not be treated like beggars, but received, sent, and supported in a manner worthy of God ( Mt 10:40-42; Lu 10:3-7; 1Ti 5:17-18). In Mt 10:41-42 Jesus promises that "he that receiveth a prophet in the name of a prophet shall receive a prophet's reward and he that receiveth a righteous man in the name of a righteous man shall receive a righteous man's reward". This teaches Christians how important it is in God's purposes to receive and support true messengers of the gospel.

In bringing this study to a close here it needs to be re-stated that while there is extensive teaching on Christians giving into the work of God in the New Testament, there are no scriptures whatever that teach tithing. What they do teach is that Christians belong to God and what they have is held as a trust for him. Their giving is done to help those in need and to advance the Kingdom of God. They are only obliged to give in accordance with their means, out of what they have, and the amount they give is not as important as their willingness to give it. Giving is seen as proof of their love. It is done sacrificially and voluntarily. In their giving Christians sow not only money, but also faith, time and service. To sum up, their giving is characterized by what Paul said in 2Cor 9:7, "every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give, not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver."

@origina9ja
Please note that most teachings on christian giving in the new testament was about giving to the poor and needy, it is our mordern day preachers that twist it to mean giving to the church. however i am in agreement with you that as christians we ought to give to support the work of God. But then preachers should also not twist scripture or make themselves a burden to the congregation. Paul taught that preachers should work and not be a burden to the congregation. The bible also asked preachers to preach not becos of what they would get from it but becos they have a real desire to serve God.

2 Thessalonians 3:6-10:
6 And now, dear brothers and sisters, we give you this command in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ: Stay away from all believers who live idle lives and don’t follow the tradition they received from us. 7 For you know that you ought to imitate us. We were not idle when we were with you. 8[b] We never accepted food from anyone without paying for it. We worked hard day and night so we would not be a burden to any of you. [/b] 9 We certainly had the right to ask you to feed us, but we wanted to give you an example to follow. 10 Even while we were with you, we gave you this command: “Those unwilling to work will not get to eat.”



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1 Peter 5:2-4:
2 Care for the flock that God has entrusted to you. Watch over it willingly, not grudgingly—not for what you will get out of it, but because you are eager to serve God. 3 Don’t lord it over the people assigned to your care, but lead them by your own good example. 4 And when the Great Shepherd appears, you will receive a crown of never-ending glory and honor.

why is it hard for you people to believe that tithing is an old testament jewsih law,that never existed in the new testament,The so called pastors still practice it because it involves money for them,what about the oyher laws in the old testament?why are they not practicing them?

they wont hear cos of greediness.They know what they will lose if the should stop collecting tithes.