@mazaje: I got some of these questions from another board but will like you to answer them.
1. Do you believe that you have a soul that survives death?

@Trogunn
From a biblical point of view, answer to (1) is NO. Case closed.
A living man is a living soul, so is a living animal. "....man BECAME a living soul" - Gen 2:7
When people die, we say souls perished - ie the people died.
Nothing survives after death. The brain is the centre of intelligence, soif it dies, we die. Without the brain, no more intelligence for a human. Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else.
Only those who misunderstand the Bible will dance around this.

Note from the bolded

1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?
2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?
3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?
4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?
5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?
6. Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse

Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV

waiting to hear trogunn's defense. Frosbel's too

hisblud:

Note from the bolded

1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?
2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?
3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?
4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?
5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?
6. Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse --> Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV

In the bible, the word "soul" is used to mean a person, an animal, or the life a person or an animal has.

Gen 2:7 - shows the person is the soul. Same as Gen 1:24 - "And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so" (Darbys).

Example of soul being used to refer to "life is Acts 20:10 - "To whom, when Paul had gone down, he laid himself upon him, and embracing him, said: Be not troubled, for his soul is in him". (Douay Rheims). Most translations use life, though it should be soul.

Now to the questions:

1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?
He wasn't alive, of course before God gave "breath of life" or life-force ( also called spirit). Lifeless Body + breath of life = living man (= living soul). The "breath of life" is different from soul - different words are used.

2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?
Yes, God created man's body with a brain, but without the "breath of life" from God, it remained lifeless.

3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?
This is very correct, from Gen 2:7

4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?
The "breath of life" is not a living being, by itself. It's impersonnal. It's the spark of life that's from God. When one dies, the person no longer has that life-force. In a way we can say that "breath of God" returns to God because he is the source of life, but not as an independent intelligent living being.
Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life"

5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?
No. A living man is a living soul. A dead man is a dead soul. End of. Body + breath of life = living man ( living soul). Souls (humans or animals) die.
Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 22:27 - "Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain"
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Rev 16:3 - "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea".

6 Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse --> Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV

Here soul is used to mean "life" or prospect of life. Jesus here meant we should be concerned about God who can deprive us of life. Satan and his agents can kill us, but God can give us life again ( in ressurection). Only God can permanently take away life from a person - as if by burning in a fire, meaning permanent destruction without possibility of ressurection.

i really don't see the point of this thread when there's already a live thread dealing with the subject. That thread is not exclusive to anyone and continuing this discussion there wouldn't be derailing it but rather enriching it.
https://www.nairaland.com/1141788/questions-anony-souls

advocate666: i really don't see the point of this thread when there's already a live thread dealing with the subject. That thread is not exclusive to anyone and continuing this discussion there wouldn't be derailing it but rather enriching it.
https://www.nairaland.com/1141788/questions-anony-souls

I agree with you on this, being as it appears the questions on that thread hasn't been addressed.

This is at best an attempt at distortion and that is why you cannot quote out what the bible says as it is.

See:

hisblud:

[quote author=hisblud]
1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?

the guilty are afraid.
What bible passage contain exactly what you have posted up there? None.
You have to fixe up things to pass out you greek philosophy.

hisblud:
2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?

i hope you will not tell us that the brain was already alive befor the breath of God was put into the man.

hisblud:
3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?

The breath was not the soul neither the mould was the soul.

It was a combination of the two, the breath(spirit) and the body(mould) =soul.

^^^ the soul cannot exist in the absence of the other. Mould and the spirit

When the power of God leaves the body, then no more life and ofcouse no more soul.

hisblud:
4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else, does the breath of God dies along with the body?

the breath of God is God's spirit or God's power it belongs to God and as such goes back to God.

this breath of life that was put into the body is NOT the soul but the life force that brought the mould to life(soul)

what that was put was the breath of life and what that leaves is the breath of life, the spirit of God.
Dont forget that it took the breath of life and the mould/body to have the soul.

hisblud:
5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?

^^^
that cant be since the spirit of God is what that animate the body and that was what it takes to bring the man to life.

Again, the man is the soul and as such it is something else that animate the man or the soul, or it is something else that keeps the man alive, it is the spirit of God that keeps the soul alive.

When the spirit of God goes into the mould it came to be the man Adam,
when the spirit of God goes into the mould it came to be a living soul.

So, man = soul sustain by the breath or the spirit of God.

*edited*
now tell me:
where was the soul befor the breath of life was put into the man?

Mr_Anony: waiting to hear trogunn's defense. Frosbel's too

lol , happy new year bro.

But really, you do not need to hear my defense , I have nothing to defend other than to state the obvious , based not on our own logic , but on what the bible says.

To this regard , we have to go back to the beginning to understand what MAN is made up of.

We find this in Gen 2:7 , Dust and Life from GOD, nothing more , nothing less.

I am sure, God did not add spirit, or soul or some other form of existence to MAN after Genesis 2:7.

MAN is only living because he has the life of GOD in him, and he is mortal because he is subject to death without this life, as GOD clearly says , without this life, MAN returns to dust.

Daniel understood this concept quite simplistically !

"Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt." - Daniel 12:2

Also King DAVID :

"You turn men back to dust, saying, "Return to dust, O sons of men." - Psalm 90:3

The best by James the brother of JESUS :

"Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works." - James 2:26


It's so clear in scripture !

advocate666: i really don't see the point of this thread when there's already a live thread dealing with the subject. That thread is not exclusive to anyone and continuing this discussion there wouldn't be derailing it but rather enriching it.
https://www.nairaland.com/1141788/questions-anony-souls

thank you my friend.

They are not using and basing on the bible on that thread but rather using greek philosophy.

But true, this will have enriched that thread.

@Trogun

From your previous post, you mention “convulated greek translation”; you have taken the Darby/Douay as your unconvulated transaltion. Good.

In the bible, the word "soul" is used to mean a person, an animal, or the life a person or an animal has.
Gen 2:7 - shows the person is the soul. Same as Gen 1:24 - "And God said, Let the earth bring forth living souls after their kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth, after their kind. And it was so" (Darbys).

Example of soul being used to refer to "life is Acts 20:10 - "To whom, when Paul had gone down, he laid himself upon him, and embracing him, said: Be not troubled, for his soul is in him". (Douay Rheims). Most translations use life, though it should be soul.

Ok so if you want to go with the issue of soul as “living creature”.

Another question comes up from the above:

Why did God when He created man from the slim/dust of the ground (Douay/Darby), breathed His breath SPECIFICALLY, which made man a “Living soul” but He did not do same for the animals which He called forth and they be?

Therefore it shows that the “living creature” in Gen 1:24 and gen 2:7 are not same contextually, do you agree?

Furthermore, Looking at the Hebrew translation, the word soul used in Gen 1:24(is nepesh) while soul used in Gen 2:7 (is l’nepesh). The character l’ in front of nepesh definitely would not mean the same soul as that of animal, because God breathed that of man, do you agree? Though not deeply in the Hebrew but surely the difference must mean something deeper. Look at the Pictures below and the verses to differentiate it.

In acts 20:10, looking up the greek word psuche it brought up this

It shows different uses of the word “psuchee”
a. Breath
b. Rational and immortal soul
c. vitality

Thus you did notice that in the context used above, Paul would be using breath for soul.
While in Matt 10:28-29, it wont mean [b]vitality or simply breath but a rational and immortal soul, do you agree?
Thus context is King. Generalizing that Soul is not proper, the context used is of uptmost importance to understand bible verses.

Now to the questions:

1. When God formed man, “Gen 2:7 the LORD God formed the man from the dust of the ground”, was he alive or not alive then before God breath into him?
He wasn't alive, of course before God gave "breath of life" or life-force ( also called spirit). Lifeless Body + breath of life = living man (= living soul). The "breath of life" is different from soul - different words are used.

ok so the body was not alive!

2. The brain, centre of intelligence, was/is it not part of the formed man apart from the breath of God?
Yes, God created man's body with a brain, but without the "breath of life" from God, it remained lifeless.

ok so the brain part of the body was not alive then!

3. Is it not the combination of dust(formed man including his brain) and God’s breath that together form a Living soul?
This is very correct, from Gen 2:7

ok

4. When you say, Nothing escapes to go live somewhere else , does the breath of God dies along with the body?
The "breath of life" is not a living being, by itself. It's impersonnal. It’s the spark of life that's from God. When one dies, the person no longer has that life-force. In a way we can say that "breath of God" returns to God because he is the source of life, but not as an independent intelligent living being.

Job 33:4 "The Spirit of God has made me; the breath of the Almighty gives me life"

But the “Breath of Life” was part of what entered Adam to make him a living soul abi? So Something “escapes to go live somewhere else”. Are we in agreement then!

Hmm, does this impersonal thing, on leaving God, entering Adam, “must form what we would say is a “rational and immortal soul” that sustains and keeps the body alive”? If you say NO, then what will God hold accountable, His breath or the body of Man?

5. Quoting you, “A living man is a living soul”, are you meaning “ a living body is animated by a living soul”?
No. A living man is a living soul. A dead man is a dead soul. End of. Body + breath of life = living man ( living soul). Souls (humans or animals) die.

Ok let me rephrase it for you, “a living body is animated by “breath of God”? Do you agree?

6 Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse --> Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV
Here soul is used to mean "life" or prospect of life. Jesus here meant we should be concerned about God who can deprive us of life. Satan and his agents can kill us, but God can give us life again ( in ressurection). Only God can permanently take away life from a person - as if by burning in a fire, meaning permanent destruction without possibility of ressurection. [/quote]

Ok, what makes us US that God can destroy if not a rational and immortal soul that is “pshuche”?. An “US” that will be accountable and be judged?


Lets go back to Mazaje’s question,
1. Do you believe that you have a soul that survives death?

How many times will we point these chaps back to the bible, do they read it at all ?

MAN dies and that's it, that's why we have the word MORTAL.

MAN is MORTAL which means he can DIE Whereas GOD is IMMORTAL, he cannot die.

To say that a being dies, but does not really DIE it just very wrong.

You either DIE or you don't.

frosbel: How many times will we point these chaps back to the bible, do they read it at all ?

MAN dies and that's it, that's why we have the word MORTAL.

MAN is MORTAL which means he can DIE Whereas GOD is IMMORTAL, he cannot die.

To say that a being dies, but does not really DIE it just very wrong.

You either DIE or you don't.

frosbel if you cannot answer just ignore it or just say i dont know instead of saying pointing scripture to who? Oh you want me to accept what you assume the scripture is saying. Sorry if you are not ready to be of the berean clan that check and query, then dont just say as if you are the final authority. Ko

hisblud: frosbel if you cannot answer just ignore it or just say i dont know instead of saying pointing scripture to who? Oh you want me to accept what you assume the scripture is saying. Sorry if you are not ready to be of the berean clan that check and query, then dont just say as if you are the final authority. Ko

assume ? sorry , you lost me.

I will keep commenting with other willing brethren, no need to engage me in a debate Sir if you find my approach unpalatable.

advocate666: i really don't see the point of this thread when there's already a live thread dealing with the subject. That thread is not exclusive to anyone and continuing this discussion there wouldn't be derailing it but rather enriching it.
https://www.nairaland.com/1141788/questions-anony-souls

there is need not to derail it. Mazaje is contesting that there is NOTHING like soul just a brain. Here some are acceding that there is soul, thus the need to start start a different thread. Between those that but agree that the soul exist yet differ on some points so sure there needs to be

truthislight: This is at best an attempt at distortion and that is why you cannot quote out what the bible says as it is.

See:

see this one claiming guilty is afraid? Afraid of who? If you were devil incarnate, all i did do is get behind me satan. Shikena, so zip it if you have nothing to say.

hisblud: @Trogun

From your previous post, you mention “convulated greek translation”; you have taken the Darby/Douay as your unconvulated transaltion. Good.

Ok so if you want to go with the issue of soul as “living creature”.

Another question comes up from the above:

Why did God when He created man from the slim/dust of the ground (Douay/Darby), breathed His breath SPECIFICALLY, which made man a “Living soul” but He did not do same for the animals which He called forth and they be?

Therefore it shows that the “living creature” in Gen 1:24 and gen 2:7 are not same contextually, do you agree?

Furthermore, Looking at the Hebrew translation, the word soul used in Gen 1:24(is nepesh) while soul used in Gen 2:7 (is l’nepesh). The character l’ in front of nepesh definitely would not mean the same soul as that of animal, because God breathed that of man, do you agree? Though not deeply in the Hebrew but surely the difference must mean something deeper. Look at the Pictures below and the verses to differentiate it.

In acts 20:10, looking up the greek word psuche it brought up this

Thus you did notice that in the context used above, Paul would be using breath for soul.
While in Matt 10:28-29, it wont mean [b]vitality or simply breath but a rational and immortal soul, do you agree?
Thus context is King. Generalizing that Soul is not proper, the context used is of uptmost importance to understand bible verses.

ok so the body was not alive!

ok so the brain part of the body was not alive then!

ok

But the “Breath of Life” was part of what entered Adam to make him a living soul abi? So Something “escapes to go live somewhere else”. Are we in agreement then!

Hmm, does this impersonal thing, on leaving God, entering Adam, “must form what we would say is a “rational and immortal soul” that sustains and keeps the body alive”? If you say NO, then what will God hold accountable, His breath or the body of Man?

Ok let me rephrase it for you, “a living body is animated by “breath of God”? Do you agree?

6 Finally, what did Jesus mean in this verse --> Matt 10:28-29 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.NIV
Here soul is used to mean "life" or prospect of life. Jesus here meant we should be concerned about God who can deprive us of life. Satan and his agents can kill us, but God can give us life again ( in ressurection). Only God can permanently take away life from a person - as if by burning in a fire, meaning permanent destruction without possibility of ressurection.

Ok, what makes us US that God can destroy if not a rational and immortal soul that is “pshuche”?. An “US” that will be accountable and be judged?

Lets go back to Mazaje’s question,
1. Do you believe that you have a soul that survives death?

nephesh is used indiscriminately for both man and animals - no difference.

Num. 31:28 - "And thou shalt separate a portion to the Lord from them that fought and were in the battle, one soul (nephesh) of five hundred as well of persons as of oxen and asses and sheep".

Prov. 12:10 - "A righteous man regardeth the life (nephesh- soul) of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel."

Lev. 17:10-11: "I will even set my face against that soul (nephesh) that eateth blood...For the life (nephesh-soul) of the flesh is in the blood..."

Same goes for greek "psuche" - used to mean the person or life.

The immortal soul thing that lives outside the body is a belief influence by philosophies alien to the bible.

True, bible translators don't consistently translate "soul" where nephesh and psuche are used. A lot of verses where "life" is translated actually should be soul. I had to dig a bit to find translation that retained soul in those verses (such as Darbys and Douay Rheims).

Hmm, does this impersonal thing, on leaving God, entering Adam, “must form what we would say is a “rational and immortal soul” that sustains and keeps the body alive”? If you say NO, then what will God hold accountable, His breath or the body of Man?

The "rational and immortal soul" is man's idea. From the bible the soul is mortal, because it is man and it dies. God holds man ( a living soul - a combination of "breath of life" and body) accountable for his actions and that's why the soul (human) that sins will die.

Ok, what makes us US that God can destroy if not a rational and immortal soul that is “pshuche”?. An “US” that will be accountable and be judged?

Man is a living soul and is accountable for his actions ( based on the thoughts of his brain). God will destroy those who obstinately disobey him.
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."

Lets go back to Mazaje’s question,
1. Do you believe that you have a soul that survives death?

No. There's no reason from the Bible to believe that.

Eccl 9:5-6,10 -- "For the living know that they will die,but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun". "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom".

TroGunn:

nephesh is used indiscriminately for both man and animals - no difference.
Num. 31:28 - "And thou shalt separate a portion to the Lord from them that fought and were in the battle, one soul (nephesh) of five hundred as well of persons as of oxen and asses and sheep".

Prov. 12:10 - "A righteous man regardeth the life (nephesh- soul) of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel."

Lev. 17:10-11: "I will even set my face against that soul (nephesh) that eateth blood...For the life (nephesh-soul) of the flesh is in the blood..."

The above scripture you quoted still stands that it is nephesh not l’nephesh and ALL referred to animals not humans as in Gen 2:7! context

Same goes for greek "psuche" - used to mean the person or life.

The immortal soul thing that lives outside the body is a belief influence by philosophies alien to the bible.
True, bible translators don't consistently translate "soul" where nephesh and psuche are used. A lot of verses where "life" is translated actually should be soul. I had to dig a bit to find translation that retained soul in those verses (such as Darbys and Douay Rheims).

Tho thinking out: So what you are saying is that all words that uses greek meaning/philosophy are wrong and in their context, are not close to the original? Hmm!! So which word idea is the true? Hebrew? And if Hebrew, it still shows that the context of such words such as hanepesh, l’nepesh and nepesh, this are all the same word with a variant in usage. For example, if you say the greek idea used in context is wrong, lets take love, the greek define love in three different mode – Agape-divine or unconditional love. Eros-sexual love and Phileo – friendship. Now in your opinion, which of the above greek meaning will suite 1 cor 13?

The "rational and immortal soul" is man's idea.

Hmm how true, my friend, is that your assertion?

From the bible the soul is mortal, because it is man and it dies. God holds man (a living soul - a combination of "breath of life" and body) accountable for his actions and that's why the soul (human) that sins will die

Hmm, so the [breath of God + body] which is “soul”, yet the breath of God does not die but only the body so where is the “soul” since only a component dies while the other lives on? And well, I still disagree with your assumption, because the verse you lifted that statement, stated hanepesh and this again is different from just nepesh. And I will yet again state, am not fluent in Hebrew, and the Hebrew using the various word combination of nepesh for “soul” must of necessity mean not just simply just soul and that brings us to context again.

Man is a living soul and is accountable for his actions (based on the thoughts of his brain)
God will destroy those who obstinately doisobey him.
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."



No. There's no reason from the Bible to believe that.

Eccl 9:5-6,10 -- "For the living know that they will die,but the dead know nothing; they have no further reward, and even their name is forgotten. Their love, their hate and their jealousy have long since vanished; never again will they have a part in anything that happens under the sun". "Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom".

Now since God will judge me by my thoughts, the question arises, are our thoughts just physical or non physical?

And again,

You have not answered this question:

Why did God when He created man from the slim/dust of the ground (Douay/Darby), breathed His breath SPECIFICALLY, which made man a “Living soul” but He did not do same for the animals which He called forth and they be?

Therefore it shows that the “living creature” in Gen 1:24 and gen 2:7 are not same contextually, do you agree?

And since you don’t accept that “a living body is animated by “breath of God”? then how can something like a poppet that has no “life” be “alive” if not animated by something external? To animate means make somebody or something lively: to make a person, subject, or event lively or
cause to live: to bring somebody or something to life

hisblud:

The above scripture you quoted still stands that it is nephesh not l’nephesh and ALL referred to animals not humans as in Gen 2:7! context

The scriptures (Num. 31:28 and Lev. 17:10-11) quoted showed nephesh used for humans and animals without any discrimination.

Tho thinking out: So what you are saying is that all words that uses greek meaning/philosophy are wrong and in their context, are not close to the original? Hmm!! So which word idea is the true? Hebrew? And if Hebrew, it still shows that the context of such words such as hanepesh, l’nepesh and nepesh, this are all the same word with a variant in usage. For example, if you say the greek idea used in context is wrong, lets take love, the greek define love in three different mode – Agape-divine or unconditional love. Eros-sexual love and Phileo – friendship. Now in your opinion, which of the above greek meaning will suite 1 cor 13?

My point was that translators consistently translating "soul" where nephesh and psuche are used would make the biblical meaning of "soul" clear. In any case, since we are looking at the original hebrew and greek words, it's not much of an issue. The bibilical soul dies, is not immortal, equates to man or animal.

Hmm, so the [breath of God + body] which is “soul”, yet the breath of God does not die but only the body so where is the “soul” since only a component dies while the other lives on? And well, I still disagree with your assumption, because the verse you lifted that statement, stated hanepesh and this again is different from just nepesh. And I will yet again state, am not fluent in Hebrew, and the Hebrew using the various word combination of nepesh for “soul” must of necessity mean not just simply just soul and that brings us to context again.

The soul which is the man (or animal) dies. Here are the verses again
Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 22:27 - "Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain"
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Rev 16:3 - "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea".

The "breath of life" or "spirit" is not same as soul

Now since God will judge me by my thoughts, the question arises, are our thoughts just physical or non physical?

What are you on about here? You think with your brain - it drives your actions. The punishment for sin is death (absence of life).

James 1:15 - "Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death".

You have not answered this question:

And since you don’t accept that “a living body is animated by “breath of God”? then how can something like a poppet that has no “life” be “alive” if not animated by something external? To animate means make somebody or something lively: to make a person, subject, or event lively or
cause to live: to bring somebody or something to life

Gen 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Clearly, "breath of life" provided by God made the body to become a living soul or person. As I explained earlier, nothing here shows the "breath of life" to be an independent being. It's just what we can call life-force from God, the source of life.

Note, man did not come to have a soul, he became a soul.

1Cor 15:45 - " Thus also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit". (Darbys)

TroGunn:

nephesh is used indiscriminately for both man and animals - no difference.
Num. 31:28 - "And thou shalt separate a portion to the Lord from them that fought and were in the battle, one soul (nephesh) of five hundred as well of persons as of oxen and asses and sheep".

Prov. 12:10 - "A righteous man regardeth the life (nephesh- soul) of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel."

Lev. 17:10-11: "I will even set my face against that soul (nephesh) that eateth blood...For the life (nephesh-soul) of the flesh is in the blood..."

Same goes for greek "psuche" - used to mean the person or life.

The immortal soul thing that lives outside the body is a belief influence by philosophies alien to the bible.
True, bible translators don't consistently translate "soul" where nephesh and psuche are used. A lot of verses where "life" is translated actually should be soul. I had to dig a bit to find translation that retained soul in those verses (such as Darbys and Douay Rheims).

and i said

The above scripture you quoted still stands that it is nephesh not l’nephesh and ALL referred to animals not humans as in Gen 2:7! context

and

Tho thinking out: So what you are saying is that all words that uses greek meaning/philosophy are wrong and in their context, are not close to the original? Hmm!! So which word idea is the true? Hebrew? And if Hebrew, it still shows that the context of such words such as hanepesh, l’nepesh and nepesh, this are all the same word with a variant in usage. For example, if you say the greek idea used in context is wrong, lets take love, the greek define love in three different mode – Agape-divine or unconditional love. Eros-sexual love and Phileo – friendship. Now in your opinion, which of the above greek meaning will suite 1 cor 13?

Then you mentioned this agreeing with truthislight who emphasised the issue of context in relation of the use of the word "spirit"

@trogun
Actually not correct.1John 4:1 - "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are fromGod, because many false prophets have gone out into the world".But I guess the point was just that the word "spirit" can mean different things including "attitude"or "spirit beings" or "breath of life" or "Holy Spirit".

@truth
you dont even know the usage/application of the word spirit in the bible.[/b]In the context of ephisiance, the spirit is the power that is satan's and he uses it to influence whomever is susceptible to his manipulations:"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of thepower of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" (Ephesians 2:2).While The spirit ^^^ of satan causes disobedience the spirit of the almighty God produces the fruitage of the spirit of God like:"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith," (Galatians 5:22).That you dont know this does not mean that you should lie all the time.There are many ways that the word spirit is used in the bible, dont muddle things up because you see the same spelling my friend.

[b]do you understand the quoted statements?

TroGunn:

The scriptures (Num. 31:28 and Lev. 17:10-11) quoted showed nephesh used for humans and animals without any discrimination.



My point was that translators consistently translating "soul" where nephesh and psuche are used would make the biblical meaning of "soul" clear. In any case, since we are looking at the original hebrew and greek words, it's not much of an issue. The bibilical soul dies, is not immortal, equates to man or animal.



The soul which is the man (or animal) dies. Here are the verses again
Ezekiel 18:4 - "Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die."
Ezekiel 22:27 - "Her princes in the midst thereof are like wolves ravening the prey, to shed blood, and to destroy souls, to get dishonest gain"
Jas 5:20 - "Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins".
Acts 3:23 - "And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people."
Rev 16:3 - "And the second angel poured out his vial upon the sea; and it became as the blood of a dead man: and every living soul died in the sea".

The "breath of life" or "spirit" is not same as soul



What are you on about here? You think with your brain - it drives your actions. The punishment for sin is death (absence of life).

James 1:15 - "Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death".



Gen 2:7 - "And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Clearly, "breath of life" provided by God made the body to become a living soul or person. As I explained earlier, nothing here shows the "breath of life" to be an independent being. It's just what we can call life-force from God, the source of life.

Note, man did not come to have a soul, he became a soul.

1Cor 15:45 - " Thus also it is written, The first man Adam became a living soul; the last Adam a quickening spirit". (Darbys)

Thank You bro, very scriptural.

Unfortunately, not everyone takes scripture as the final authority.

TroGunn:

nephesh is used indiscriminately for both man and animals - no difference.
Num. 31:28 - "And thou shalt separate a portion to the Lord from them that fought and were in the battle, one soul (nephesh) of five hundred as well of persons as of oxen and asses and sheep".

Prov. 12:10 - "A righteous man regardeth the life (nephesh- soul) of his beast; but the tender mercies of the wicked are cruel."

Lev. 17:10-11: "I will even set my face against that soul (nephesh) that eateth blood...For the life (nephesh-soul) of the flesh is in the blood..."

Same goes for greek "psuche" - used to mean the person or life.

The immortal soul thing that lives outside the body is a belief influence by philosophies alien to the bible.
True, bible translators don't consistently translate "soul" where nephesh and psuche are used. A lot of verses where "life" is translated actually should be soul. I had to dig a bit to find translation that retained soul in those verses (such as Darbys and Douay Rheims).

and i said

The above scripture you quoted still stands that it is nephesh not l’nephesh and ALL referred to animals not humans as in Gen 2:7! context

and

Tho thinking out: So what you are saying is that all words that uses greek meaning/philosophy are wrong and in their context, are not close to the original? Hmm!! So which word idea is the true? Hebrew? And if Hebrew, it still shows that the context of such words such as hanepesh, l’nepesh and nepesh, this are all the same word with a variant in usage. For example, if you say the greek idea used in context is wrong, lets take love, the greek define love in three different mode – Agape-divine or unconditional love. Eros-sexual love and Phileo – friendship. Now in your opinion, which of the above greek meaning will suite 1 cor 13?

Then you mentioned this agreeing with truthislight who emphasised the issue of context in relation of the use of the word "spirit"

@trogun
Actually not correct.1John 4:1 - "Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are fromGod, because many false prophets have gone out into the world".But I guess the point was just that the word "spirit" can mean different things including "attitude"or "spirit beings" or "breath of life" or "Holy Spirit".

@truth
you dont even know the usage/application of the word spirit in the bible.[/b]In the context of ephisiance, the spirit is the power that is satan's and he uses it to influence whomever is susceptible to his manipulations:"Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of thepower of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" (Ephesians 2:2).While The spirit ^^^ of satan causes disobedience the spirit of the almighty God produces the fruitage of the spirit of God like:"But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness,goodness, faith," (Galatians 5:22).That you dont know this does not mean that you should lie all the time.There are many ways that the word spirit is used in the bible, dont muddle things up because you see the same spelling my friend.

[b]do you understand the quoted statements?

Job 34:14-15
New Living Translation (NLT)
14 If God were to take back his spirit
and withdraw his breath,
15 all life would cease,
and humanity would turn again to dust.


This beautiful scripture nicely summarizes the truth about the soul and spirit.

The only thing that keeps MAN alive is the breath of God through the power of his spirit.

If God withdraws this breath, MAN returns to dust, period !!

To respond to that question I can only say; We are Spiritual beings experiencing life in the human dimension and not human bodies experiencing life in spiritual dimension. In essence, we are aliens on Earth. Soul is energy. It knows no death, never dies, no not ever.

hisblud:


and i said


Then you mentioned this agreeing with truthislight who emphasised the issue of context in relation of the use of the word "spirit"



do you understand the quoted statements?

Out of the 3 scriptures I listed that uses nephesh for man and animals, only Prov 12:10 is exclusively for animal. The other two used it for both man and beast.

L'nephesh might be nothing more than " a soul". Still doesn't change anything since in many other verses man is referred to as nephesh, as well as animals.

Spirit actually does mean different things in the bible, including "breath of life", depending on context. When used as "breath of life", spirit is not soul- Gen 2:7 makes that clear.

Biblically, Man is a soul, he doesn't just have a soul- he is one. That's the biblical soul - Gen2:7, 1Cor 15:45.

And I've listed scriptures showing the biblical soul is mortal.

The undying soul thing is just Satan's way of propagating the lie that Adam did not die for his rebellion when God clearly said Adam would die.

Billyonaire: To respond to that question I can only say; We are Spiritual beings experiencing life in the human dimension and not human bodies experiencing life in spiritual dimension. In essence, we are aliens on Earth. Soul is energy. It knows no death, never dies, no not ever.

The biblical soul is different. It dies, bro.

frosbel: Job 34:14-15
New Living Translation (NLT)
14 If God were to take back his spirit
and withdraw his breath,
15 all life would cease,
and humanity would turn again to dust.


This beautiful scripture nicely summarizes the truth about the soul and spirit.

The only thing that keeps MAN alive is the breath of God through the power of his spirit.

If God withdraws this breath, MAN returns to dust, period !!

Now some people want to equate soul to spirit or breath of life from God- all just so it can fit their man-made idea of an immortal soul and with no scriptural basis.

This verses of Job really makes things clear, tallies with Gen 2:7.

TroGunn:

Now some people want to equate soul to spirit or breath of life from God- all just so it can fit their man-made idea of an immortal soul and with no scriptural basis.

This verses of Job really makes things clear, tallies with Gen 2:7.

hmm my question is still "do you understand the quoted statements?" i never said soul and spirit are same and would never. All am saying have you read the quotes? Reread them again

hisblud: hmm my question is still "do you understand the quoted statements?" i never said soul and spirit are same and would never. All am saying have you read the quotes? Reread them again

What bolded statement? That the word "spirit" as used in the bible means different things? Pls reread my posts- my response to that is clear.

I've laid bare the biblical usage of soul with verses. - that soul is man or animal or the life he/it has.

If you have any scriptural backing for your belief in an immortal soul, that survives and carries on existence after death, please bring it forth. And also explain the verses already listed which clearly shows man is a soul (as well as animals) and that the soul dies.

TroGunn:

What bolded statement? That the word "spirit" as used in the bible means different things? Pls reread my posts- my response to that is clear.

I've laid bare the biblical usage of soul with verses. - that soul is man or animal or the life he/it has.

If you have any scriptural backing for your belief in an immortal soul, that survives and carries on existence after death, please bring it forth. And also explain the verses already listed which clearly shows man is a soul (as well as animals) and that the soul dies.

This article http://www.gilead.net/bibletopics/hereandhereafter/Chapter6.htm, has to be the very best I have read on this subject. It totally destroys the myth of an independent entity that survives the body after death!

frosbel: Job 34:14-15
New Living Translation (NLT)
14 If God were to take back his spirit
and withdraw his breath,
15 all life would cease,
and humanity would turn again to dust.


This beautiful scripture nicely summarizes the truth about the soul and spirit.

The only thing that keeps MAN alive is the breath of God through the power of his spirit.

If God withdraws this breath, MAN returns to dust, period !!

lol some of you stay dancing and play on words...i am not really going to get into the why soul and spirit is really the same thing but a play on words, since you guys seems to be strugging with this soul dies concept..

but if using your terms and going by logic then it is wrong to say the "soul" dies.. if the soul is a combination of man/body/mould and the spirit of God and we all agree that the spirit is immortal. then it is wrong and illogical to say the " soul" dies.. if one part of the soul is immortal then it is illogical to say it "dies".. it simple changes form or disintegrate back to its original form which was spirit and body..

14 If God were to take back his spirit
and withdraw his breath,
15 all life would cease,
and humanity would turn again to dust.

if dying means ceasing to exist then ultimately there is really nothing like "dying"..because when someting "dies" it basically just changes form or back to its original form. how does the body/man returning to the dust denotes as dying when the dust is where they came from in the first place? was the dust/body not existing as dust in the first place? how is something returning to its orignial state be a cause for alarm. should it not be celebrated. when one returns home from a journey should they not be welcomed and celebrated? i am asking all this cus i want you guys to really think about the fact that there is nothing wrong in "dying"..

there is nothing wrong with that verse. it is telling you the reality of things.

greatgenius: lol some of you stay dancing and play on words...i am not really going to get into the why soul and spirit is really the same thing but a play on words, since you guys seems to be strugging with this soul dies concept..

but if using your terms and going by logic then it is wrong to say the "soul" dies.. if the soul is a combination of man/body/mould and the spirit of God and we all agree that the spirit is immortal. then it is wrong and illogical to say the " soul" dies.. if one part of the soul is immortal then it is illogical to say it "dies".. it simple changes form or disintegrate back to its original form which was spirit and body..

So the bible that says the soul dies is "illogical", right? And what part of dying meaning "cease to be alive" or dead is hard to grasp? The soul is man, when man or soul dies, there's no more "breath of life" or spirit. That spirit is what goes back to the source of life, God who gave it in the 1st place. At this point, as Job pointed out, the spirit or breath of God is no longer there to keep the body alive. The lifeless body remains - the man or soul is dead.