God's plan" is the way that Christians traditionally explain things like amputations, cancer, hurricanes and car accidents. For example, if a Christian dies a painful and tragic death because of cancer, she dies as part of God's plan. Her death has a purpose. God called her home for a reason. Even if something bad happens to a Christian, it is actually good because it is part of God's plan.

You can see how pervasive "God's plan" is by looking in Christian inspirational literature. For example, if we look in the book A Purpose Driven Life by Rick Warren, we find this remarkable paragraph in Chapter 2:

Because God made you for a reason, he also decided when you would be born and how long you would live. He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
There is also this:
Regardless of the circumstances of your birth or who your parents are, God had a plan in creating you.
Under this view of the universe, God plans everything.
Take a moment and think about what Rick Warren said. Rick said, "He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death." Let's examine one simple implication of this statement. What this means is that God has pre-planned every abortion that has taken place on our planet.

If the concept of "God's plan" is true, you can first of all see that God wants us to be aborting children. Every single abortion is planned by God, so God must be doing it for a reason. Second, you can see that both the mother who requests the abortion and the doctor who performs it are blameless. Since it is God who planned the abortion of the child (God chose the "exact time" of the death, according to Rick Warren), the mother and doctor are simply puppets who are fulfilling God's plan, are they not? What about all the Christians who are fighting against abortion? If abortion is part of God's plan, why are they fighting it? God is the all-powerful ruler of the universe, and his plan is for more than a million children a year to die in the United States through abortion. [ref] If God's plan is true, then each one of those abortions was meticulously planned by God.

If God does not intend for us to perform abortions, is Rick Warren then wrong that God has a plan? If God has a plan, is he not the direct cause of every abortion? Simply think it through, and you will begin to see the problems in Rick's proposition.

Think about Adolph Hitler. He was evil incarnate, and Hitler is well known for the atrocious things he did. What I would like you to do right now is to consider this statement: "Hitler is part of God's Plan." Think about what Rick said:

He planned the days of your life in advance, choosing the exact time of your birth and death. The Bible says, "You saw me before I was born and scheduled each day of my life before I began to breathe. Every day was recorded in your book!" [Psalm 139:16]
Rick also says:
God never does anything accidentally, and he never makes mistakes. He has a reason for everything he creates. Every plant and every animal was planned by God, and every person was designed with a purpose in mind.
If God has a divine plan for each of us, then he had a divine plan for Hitler too. It is when you stop to think about it deeply that the contradictions hit you.
Now let's imagine that you say a prayer in this sort of universe. What difference does it make? God has his plan, and that plan is running down its track like a freight train. If God has a plan, then everyone who died in the Holocaust died for a reason. They had to die, and each death had meaning. Therefore, Holocaust victims could pray all day, and they would still die. The idea of a "plan" makes the idea of a "prayer-answering relationship with God" a contradiction, doesn't it? Yet Christians seem to attach themselves to both ideas, despite the irresolvable problem the two ideas create.

Think about what God's plan means for you personally. If the plan happens to say that you will get hit by a bus tomorrow, or that terrorists will blow you up, or that you will be shot in the head four times, then that's what will happen. It would be the same with any disease. If you contract cancer this afternoon and die three months later, that is God's plan for you. Praying to cure the cancer is a waste. God plans for you to die, so you will die. He has pre-programmed the exact time of your death. There is nothing you can do to change the plan -- no amount of prayer will help -- because your death will have meaning and your death will cause side-effects that are also part of the plan.

Who will you marry? You actually have no choice in the matter. God has pre-planned your wedding in minute detail. Rick Warren says, "God knew that those two individuals [your parents] possessed exactly the right genetic makeup to create the custom 'you' that he had in mind. They had the DNA God wanted to make you." Therefore, your spouse was pre-chosen by God for you so that you would create the children who are a part of his plan. You also have no choice in the number of children you will have -- God has pre-planned their births.

In addition, this sort of universe means that Hitler is blameless. Hitler was not "evil," because Hitler had no free will at all. Hitler was simply an actor forced to play his role in God's plan. God planned for millions of people to die in the Holocaust -- he planned their deaths in exact detail according to Rick Warren. Hitler had to kill those people. Hitler was God's puppet in making that those millions of deaths happen right on schedule.

In the same way then, every murderer is blameless. Since God has planned each of our deaths in exact detail, murderers are actually essential to God's plan. Why do we punish them? We should be rewarding them for doing their God-planned duty. What if you get raped tomorrow and get pregnant? God did that because he planned the exact time of that child's birth and death. God actually pre-planned your rape, and the rapist was God's puppet. Rather than hating the rapist, we should celebrate God's plan.

Do you believe that murderers and rapists should be rewarded? Do you believe that Hitler was sent by God to kill millions of people in the Holocaust? Do you believe that God is the direct cause of every abortion on this planet? Do you believe that you have no choice in your spouse or the number of children you have? Probably not. But that is what you are saying when you state that Hitler or cancer or anything else is part of "God's plan."

If you think about it as an intelligent person, you will realize that the statement "It is part of God's plan" is one of those meaningless palliatives. When you sit down and think it through using your common sense, the statement makes no sense. That lack of sense shows us how imaginary God is.

SMH

The xtians are getting a real headache over the "God plan" and "free will" argument. They just cant argue their way out of it.

Yes, we are all puppets and what you just posted was pre-planned by GOD(atheist-d post and mine too). Now, can you get over it?

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Yes, we are all puppets and what you just posted was pre-planned by GOD(atheist-d post and mine too). Now, can you get over it?

Seriously?
You have absolutely no problem with what she said? Yet you still believe in a god that planned for so much evil to take place?

^^^^ I know this might sound a bit rash but GOD is too big to be questioned so HE can do whatever HE pleases.

^^^
lol, classic excuse.

^^^ not an excuse but the truth.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
^^^ not an excuse but the truth.

That is 100% wrong

If any of Gods decision are not to his glory then we can assume they are not his decisions

Or what do you think?

Atheist:-D:


That is 100% wrong

If any of Gods decision are not to his glory then we can assume they are not his decisions

Or what do you think?

That is the point. Everything HE does is for HIS own glory. HE is the Master Programmer and we are just executing code.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
That is the point. Everything HE does is for HIS own glory. HE is the Master Programmer and we are just executing code.

How can such actions be to His glory if it does not glorify Him?

Anything that has ppl looking at God negatively cannot be to His glory. Hence He plays no role in such actions. But yet He orchestrates and plans everything and hence He has a lead role in everything including such actions... a paradox

Did I get it right

I think Atheists serve a greater purpose in "GOD's Plan" don't you think

inspiredbyGOD:.:
^^^^ I know this might sound a bit rash but GOD is too big to be questioned so HE can do whatever HE pleases.

Wrong. God is not above human judgment, after all it is we who created him!

Atheist:-D:




How can such actions be to His glory if it does not glorify Him?

Anything that has ppl looking at God negatively cannot be to His glory. Hence He plays no role in such actions. But yet He orchestrates and plans everything and hence He has a lead role in everything including such actions... a paradox

Did I get it right

If any negative thing happen to man, it is only man's own fault. You reap what you sow and GOD only gives you what you deserve.

lagerwhenindoubt: I think Atheists serve a greater purpose in "GOD's Plan" don't you think

Yes. We are all part of GOD's plan.

onetrack:

Wrong. God is not above human judgment, after all it is we who created him!

Atheist right? You think man created the concept of God to keep man in check. Well, that's false cos GOD IS REAL. I'm a living proof of HIS existence.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Atheist right? You think man created the concept of God to keep man in check. Well, that's false cos GOD IS REAL. I'm a living proof of HIS existence.

If God exists he is certainly not worthy of any honor or admiration, given all the evil he has caused in the world, including drowning the entire world and starting over just because he couldn't get it right the first time. Such a god is to be cursed and condemned.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
If any negative thing happen to man, it is only man's own fault. You reap what you sow and GOD only gives you what you deserve.

It doesnt answer my question. Is it Gods will to have negative things happen? Be cautious how you answer this... because I have a point I want to express.

Atheist:-D:


It doesnt answer my question. Is it Gods will to have negative things happen? Be cautious how you answer this... because I have a point I want to express.

GOD's will is not for man to suffer and that is why HE sent HIS only begotten son to die for us so that we might be saved from falling into darkness. GOD finds no delight in the suffering(s) of man. The suffering that we are going through will soon come to an abrupt end when GOD's Kingdom is fully established on earth.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
GOD's will is not for man to suffer and that is why HE sent HIS only begotten son to die for us so that we might be saved from falling into darkness. GOD finds no delight in the suffering(s) of man. The suffering that we are going through will soon come to an abrupt end when GOD's Kingdom is fully established on earth.

If it is not His will (as you have stated) then He has no control over what is unravelling, He also has no means to change what is unravelling. Hmmmm.

Atheist:-D:


If it is not His will (as you have stated) then He has no control over what is unravelling, He also has no means to change what is unravelling. Hmmmm.

Saying it's not His will doesn't mean that it's not His will. Take for example a teacher advises his class to read for an upcoming exam cos failing would make him cane them. The teacher doesn't want to flog them cos he doesn't like doing that but if they fail, he would still flog them (although it is not his desire to flog them).

onetrack:

If God exists he is certainly not worthy of any honor or admiration, given all the evil he has caused in the world, including drowning the entire world and starting over just because he couldn't get it right the first time. Such a god is to be cursed and condemned.

Man's destruction is man's own fault. You reap what you sow. The world was filled with extreme wickedness and deserved retribution for their wickedness.

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Saying it's not His will doesn't mean that it's not His will. Take for example a teacher advises his class to read for an upcoming exam cos failing would make him cane them. The teacher doesn't want to flog them cos he doesn't like doing that but if they fail, he would still flog them (although it is not his desire to flog them).

the bolded makes no sense.

so the teacher has no control over who fails the exam then.

advocate666:

the bolded makes no sense.

so the teacher has no control over who fails the exam then.

HE means everything good/bad,planned/unplanned, chaos/order etc falls under his will in a manner of speaking it is a philosophical oxymoron - you are damned if you do, damned if you don't

inspiredbyGOD:.:
Saying it's not His will doesn't mean that it's not His will. Take for example a teacher advises his class to read for an upcoming exam cos failing would make him cane them. The teacher doesn't want to flog them cos he doesn't like doing that but if they fail, he would still flog them (although it is not his desire to flog them).

If a teacher had their way no student would fail. They would ensure that all students passed because it is to their glory. They would use all means at their disposal. Bear in mind teachers are not omnipotent and they have superiors. God does not.

God’s Sovereign Choice
6 It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are
descended from Israel are Israel.
7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s
children. On the contrary, “It is
through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned."
8 In other words, it is not the children by
physical descent who are God’s
children, but it is the children of the
promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring.
9 For this was how the promise was stated: “At the
appointed time I will return, and Sarah will have a son.”
10 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children were conceived at the same time by our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had
done anything good or bad—in
order that God’s purpose in election might stand:
12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told,
“The older will serve the younger.”
13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”
14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all!
15 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have
mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”
16 It does not, therefore, depend on human desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.
17 For Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this
very purpose, that I might display
my power in you and that my name
might be proclaimed in all the earth.”
18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have
mercy, and he hardens whom he
wants to harden.
19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For
who is able to resist his will?”
20 But who are you, a human being, to talk back to God?
“Shall what is
formed say to the one who formed
it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’”
21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the
same lump of clay some pottery for
special purposes and some for
common use?
22 What if God, although choosing to show his wrath and make his
power known, bore with great
patience the objects of his wrath— prepared for destruction?
23 What if he did this to make the riches of
his glory known to the objects of
his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory—
24 even us, whom he also called, not only from
the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
25 As he says in Hosea: “I will call them ‘my people’ who are
not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,” 26 and, “In the very place where it was said
to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God.’”
27 Isaiah cries out concerning Israel: “Though the number of the
Israelites be like the sand by the
sea,
only the remnant will be saved.
28 For the Lord will carry out his sentence on earth with speed and finality.”
29 It is just as Isaiah said previously: “Unless the Lord Almighty
had left us descendants,
we would have become like Sodom,
we would have been like Gomorrah.

^^^^


It does nothing to buttress the argument. God created us pure. We were (or rather adam) was deceived and hence we started sinning. God refused to destroy us then but changed his mind and destroyed us during noahs time. So what went wrong? Why did we keep sinning? Maybe sin is part of our nature and God should accept that. Or rather His fruitless attempts to change us should be abandoned as He has failed in previous attempts.

Free will my a.zz.ss

[quote
author=Atheist:-D]^^^^


It does nothing to buttress the argument. God created us pure. We were
(or rather adam) was deceived and hence we started sinning. God refused
to destroy us then but changed his mind and destroyed us during noahs
time. So what went wrong? Why did we keep sinning? Maybe sin is part of
our nature and God should accept that. Or rather His fruitless attempts
to change us should be abandoned as He has failed in previous attempts.

Free will my a.zz.ss [/quote].No God has not failed,rather its u who have failed to accept what He has done for u,failed to accept d free gift of salavatn 4 in dat free gift of salavation lies d answers u so seek.Christ in u,your hope of glory,no other way

^^^
Re-read the op

Atheist:-D:
^^^^


It does nothing to buttress the argument. God created us pure. We were (or rather adam) was deceived and hence we started sinning. God refused to destroy us then but changed his mind and destroyed us during noahs time. So what went wrong? Why did we keep sinning? Maybe sin is part of our nature and God should accept that. Or rather His fruitless attempts to change us should be abandoned as He has failed in previous attempts.

Free will my a.zz.ss

Spot on..

Very similar to the argument of a "perfect" god creating imperfect beings that sin all the time and piss him off. He Should have got it right the first time so we would have all been happy

inspiredbyGOD:.:
If any negative thing happen to man, it is only man's own fault. You reap what you sow and GOD only gives you what you deserve.

then why blaming satan for what happens to christian?

inspiredbyGOD:.:
^^^^ I know this might sound a bit rash but GOD is too big to be questioned so HE can do whatever HE pleases.

HE HE HE.
God hates wrongdoing and sin.
Yet, god is too big too be wrong, too big to fail, too big to blame, and I suppose too big to jail.

Now we get it.
But who needs a god?

inspiredbyGOD:.:
That is the point. Everything HE does is for HIS own glory. HE is the Master Programmer and we are just executing code.

Then what is he throwing people in hell for ?

This god must be a psycho.