"Mercy is a suspension of Justice"----> That is a very well-thoughtout Philosophical line.

Van snickers: "Mercy is a suspension of Justice"----> That is a very well-thoughtout Philosophical line.

Matt Dilahunty (the author of the quote) is a very intelligent philosopher + atheist speaker

Wow.....didn't know this thread was still alive. lol

Anyway, I was reading through many of your arguments and laughing my head off - I mean no disrespect but without going into much detail most of the arguments in your library are quite simply poor.....

.....Well until I came across this:

Van snickers: "Mercy is a suspension of Justice"----> That is a very well-thoughtout Philosophical line.

and this:

Logicboy03:
Matt Dilahunty (the author of the quote) is a very intelligent philosopher + atheist speaker

I was like WOW. I hope Matt Dilahunty had really thought this through because it is in answer to this that Christianity really shines beauifully. It is because of this very paradox that makes me ever more certain that Christ is the only Way.

Perhaps one day - hopefully when your mind is a bit more open - we'll have a chance to discuss it. For now I'll just go back outside your thread.

Glory be to God.

Logicboy03: [size=18pt]4. The Paradox of omniscience[/size]


We agree that a "married bachelor" can not exist because it is contradictory and self-refuting. An omniscient God is self-refuting and contradictory.

-Omniscience means knowing all things



If God knows everything, then he can not forget because the moment he forgets, he doesn't know everything. However, if God cant forget, he then doesnt know how to remember or recollect. If he can't recollect. then there is something he doesn't know- he doesnt know how it feels to recollect or remember something.


[img]http://t.qkme.me/42ef.jpg[/img]

You argument applies only to Abrahamic religions. For example in IFA religion. Oludumare is the supreme being he is God almighty humans cant perceive him, which means we don't know his will or how he reacts to things. We do not know what he looks like or if he chooses to forget or not. He choose not to have a business with the world.

zubike01:


You argument applies only to Abrahamic religions. For example in IFA religion. Oludumare is the supreme being he is God almighty humans cant perceive him, which means we don't know his will or how he reacts to things. We do not know what he looks like or if he chooses to forget or not. He choose not to have a business with the world.

Have you seen the Oshun Oshogbo groove? Those images carved there are Extraterrestrials. I am pretty sure Yahweh,Olodumare were also aliens too. According to all ancient civilisations ,all gods came from the sky,just like yahweh landed his/ her air ship on mount sinai. The terminology of God has been misused. There simply is no God anywhere.....and if there is,it is you and I.

Mr_Anony: Wow.....didn't know this thread was still alive. lol

Anyway, I was reading through many of your arguments and laughing my head off - I mean no disrespect but without going into much detail most of the arguments in your library are quite simply poor.....

.....Well until I came across this:



and this:



I was like WOW. I hope Matt Dilahunty had really thought this through because it is in answer to this that Christianity really shines beauifully. It is because of this very paradox that makes me ever more certain that Christ is the only Way.

Perhaps one day - hopefully when your mind is a bit more open - we'll have a chance to discuss it. For now I'll just go back outside your thread.

Glory be to God.

I would really like to know how a contradiction in christian theology helps christianity.

zubike01:


You argument applies only to Abrahamic religions. For example in IFA religion. Oludumare is the supreme being he is God almighty humans cant perceive him, which means we don't know his will or how he reacts to things. We do not know what he looks like or if he chooses to forget or not. He choose not to have a business with the world.

If you dont describe your God as omnipotent, you are right. However, there is still no evidence for your God.

Logicboy03: [size=18pt]1) The fundamental atheist argument[/size]


Atheism is the disbelief in the existence of God(s)


The fundamental argument for atheism is that there is no evidence or proof for God. There is no solid or tangible evidence for God nor a logical argument for God. The existence of God is taken on faith and not by evidence.

-God can not be proven by science which is the main way we study and understand our universe or natural world. There is no theory of God
-There is no conclusive logical argument for the existence of God. His/her existence is continuously debated.
-There is no comprehensive definition of God. There are many definitions for the same God as there are many gods. This is problematic if one is to ascertain the characteristics of God to judge if God exists or not.



[img]http://t.qkme.me/355t1j.jpg[/img]


[img]http://t.qkme.me/36j5ik.jpg[/img]

i'll like to talk about essence and existence. Now the only scientific explanation of the origin of man is evolution which is just a theory there isn't any substantial proof. However Thomas Aquinas was able to proof that God exist through essence and existence. How do you know something exist it is through its essence. Essence is the underlying characteristics of something for example the essence of Dog is that dogs have four limbs they bark etc are there mot many species of Dogs. if a Dog is lame or does not bark does that it stop it from been a Dog. Now the essence of God is that God is a spirit no matter the desperate manifestation in different cultures the Essence remains the same. That is why we can easily identify the God of others because they share the same essence.

zubike01:

i'll like to talk about essence and existence. Now the only scientific explanation of the origin of man is evolution which is just a theory there isn't any substantial proof. However Thomas Aquinas was able to proof that God exist through essence and existence. How do you know something exist it is through its essence. Essence is the underlying characteristics of something for example the essence of Dog is that dogs have four limbs they bark etc are there mot many species of Dogs. if a Dog is lame or does not bark does that it stop it from been a Dog. Now the essence of God is that God is a spirit no matter the desperate manifestation in different cultures the Essence remains the same. That is why we can easily identify the God of others because they share the same essence.

Sophistry 101

Logicboy03:

If you dont describe your God as omnipotent, you are right. However, there is still no evidence for your God.

Like i said earlier he can't be perceived humans don't have the ability or intelligence to perceive him how do you proof what you cannot test imagine trying to proof that micro organism existed before the days of a microscope. It would be a waste of time the only proof which i have is could also be accepted is based on historical evidence. From generation to generation the first humans have passed knowledge of him to their siblings that's more than enough proof. Now at first Oludumare created the Orisha to dwell with him in Orun the spiritual realm but he found out they lacked experience so he sent them down to earth to live in human vessels this Orisha are our ancestors.

zubike01:

i'll like to talk about essence and existence. Now the only scientific explanation of the origin of man is evolution which is just a theory there isn't any substantial proof. However Thomas Aquinas was able to proof that God exist through essence and existence. How do you know something exist it is through its essence. Essence is the underlying characteristics of something for example the essence of Dog is that dogs have four limbs they bark etc are there mot many species of Dogs. if a Dog is lame or does not bark does that it stop it from been a Dog. Now the essence of God is that God is a spirit no matter the desperate manifestation in different cultures the Essence remains the same. That is why we can easily identify the God of others because they share the same essence.

You claim your God is a spirit and yet he spoke to moses and even landed on mount sinai. How could that be possible? Spirits cannot be seen,so why did Adam and Eve hide where they heard Yahwehs's footsteps the garden of Eden? My point is, yahweh was flesh and blood and probably dead right now-or not interested in human afairs anymore

Logicboy03: [size=18pt]5) The Law Maker Argument against religious books[/size]


If we ask any lawyer today about law books, he or she will tell you that they mostly get obsolete after a year because amendments and new laws come into place. The reasons for these amendments are to keep up with advances in technology, to keep up with advances in human knowledge and to close loopholes.


Unfortunately, religion have holy books that have religious codes and are considered the laws of God. This is seen in religions like Christianity and Islam. This means that their holy books would have to be edited for modern times to be relevant. However, these religions claim that their holy books contain erternal truths (Chistianity) and that their holy book is complete (Islam). This creates a problem because we know for a fact that truth is based on evidence and knowledge which both change as time and society progress.


The problem is very simple; religious books like the Quran and Bible will continue to be outdated naturally, no matter how many times they are interpreted because laws by nature have to change with the advance of societies and technology or we will be looking at arnarchy from loopholes.


If the words/laws of an eternal being can not be eternal, what is the point? Why not focus on laws that work?

The IFA religions holy book is called the Odu the Odu is a summary of stories and events the first Orisha (humans) who settled at Ife(a city in Nigeria) went through. It is not a law book it only shows you the experience, the tribulations the faced as early been and you could use the story to gain a better understanding of things.

ifeness:

You claim your God is a spirit and yet he spoke to moses and even landed on mount sinai. How could that be possible? Spirits cannot be seen,so why did Adam and Eve hide where they heard Yahwehs's footsteps the garden of Eden? My point is, yahweh was flesh and blood and probably dead right now-or not interested in human afairs anymore

You seam to forget i am talking about Olodumare who cannot be perceived. Oludumare has never spoken to any man neither has any man claim he has . google IFA traditional religion and you would be surprised that there is a religion which can withstand all your arguments.

zubike01:

Like i said earlier he can't be perceived humans don't have the ability or intelligence to perceive him how do you proof what you cannot test imagine trying to proof that micro organism existed before the days of a microscope. It would be a waste of time the only proof which i have is could also be accepted is based on historical evidence. From generation to generation the first humans have passed knowledge of him to their siblings that's more than enough proof. Now at first Oludumare created the Orisha to dwell with him in Orun the spiritual realm but he found out they lacked experience so he sent them down to earth to live in human vessels this Orisha are our ancestors.

In that case, you refer to "him" as a male. Therefore he is no spirit but flesh and blood living on another planet or universe. I have a strong believe that the aliens(orishas) genetically altered we humans,but i do know there is no "supreme" deity anywhere. ......unless you wanna prove me wrong.

Logicboy03: [size=18pt]6) A Problem of tragedy, evil and natural disasters[/size]


[size=14pt]Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?
Epicurus[/size]



A great question people ask when tragedy and natural disasters happen is where is God? Religious theists can not answer this question adequately as it provides a great problem with the theory of a "good and just" God.

-Why does God allow terrible things to happen to good people?
-Why does God allow innocent children to die of starvation in Africa?
-Why does God allow natural disasters like earthquakes to kill both sinners and innocent people indiscriminately?



There are four flawed religious answers to these questions


1) God gives man freewill. We shouldnt Judge God based on what man does with his freewill!
-A natural disaster has no freewill and there is nothing man can do with his freewill against an earthquake (except run/help survivors)
-An omniscient God can not give freewill. Such a God knows everything- what will happen and when it will happen- predetermination!

2) God is punishing the wicked (Gays destroy society false argument )
-Worse things even happen to those people who worship him and innocent children.
-An earthquake doesnt care if you are good or bad.
-Such a God can not be just. Why not Judge people individually rather than kill indiscriminately with floods and disaters?

3)God is doing in for a greater good! We are not omnipotent and so we can't judge
-Really? God couldnt find a better way of achieving the greater good than to let children drown in a tsunami
-Greater good for who? The societies ravaged by earthquakes? The dead victims?


4) God is not involved in these tragedies!
-Erm, he impotent or selfish not to help.


Atheist debunking christians on Hurricanes and God

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3nqusrn4pg

Like i said earlier Olodumare ( The supreme God of the IFA religion) doesn't concern himself with earth matter he doesn't give a dam about how human live their life or is he involved directly in orchestrating events.

zubike01:

You seam to forget i am talking about Olodumare who cannot be perceived. Oludumare has never spoken to any man neither has any man claim he has . google IFA traditional religion and you would be surprised that there is a religion which can withstand all your arguments.

From my name you will know i am Yoruba and i do a lot of study on IFA . Eledumare is no different from Obasi,chukwu,yahweh and other animal sacrifies wanting gods. Anyway i have been to the oya shrines in Nigeria,i must say these beings are no better than i am.

ifeness:

In that case, you refer to "him" as a male. Therefore he is no spirit but flesh and blood living on another planet or universe. I have a strong believe that the aliens(orishas) genetically altered we humans,but i do know there is no "supreme" deity anywhere. ......unless you wanna prove me wrong.

Him/ She i don't know can't perceive. After gaining experience the Orisha and humans alike discard their human bodies and their Ori (spirit) can now dwell in ORun( what some call heaven or simple the realm of spirits)

ifeness:

From my name you will know i am Yoruba and i do a lot of study on IFA . Eledumare is no different from Obasi,chukwu,yahweh and other animal sacrifices wanting gods. Anyway i have been to the oya shrines in Nigeria,i must say these beings are no better than i am.

My friend you are confusing Olodumare with Orisha's it is the Orisha like Shango and others that demand sacrifices remember they were once human and therefore the have the human essence even though they are now spirits. We pray to them believing that since they have gone to join Olodumare as spirit they would be more sympathetic towards our needs since they were once humans. Yes they are no better than you are they were once human.

zubike01:


Like i said earlier Olodumare ( The supreme God of the IFA religion) doesn't concern himself with earth matter he doesn't give a dam about how human live their life or is he involved directly in orchestrating events.

If "HE" ( you are referring to him as a male again) doest bother about human affairs,why are you bothered about him? It is ok to read book about Ifa and related stuffs but please do not stoop low by worshiping these deities. You are much better off not participating in glorifying them. They are irrelevant to your spiritual advancement.

zubike01:

My friend you are confusing Olodumare with Orisha's it is the Orisha like Shango and others that demand sacrifices remember they were once human and therefore the have the human essence even though they are now spirits. We pray to them believing that since they have gone to join Olodumare as spirit they would be more sympathetic towards our needs since they were once humans. Yes they are no better than you are they were once human.

Since there is no evidence, no point mate! Since we know that we are all spirit beings having an earthly/human experience,why not have your own rules and experience. IFA made history and was appealing in the past but that was the past.

ifeness:

If "HE" ( you are referring to him as a male again) doest bother about human affairs,why are you bothered about him? It is ok to read book about Ifa and related stuffs but please do not stoop low by worshiping these deities. You are much better off not participating in glorifying them. They are irrelevant to your spiritual advancement.

My dear I don't worship Olodumare the IFA religion isn't an apocalyptic religion which promises suffering for unbelievers. Olodumare doesn't need your praise or things. You said you are yoruba do you have an Oriki.

ifeness:

Since there is no evidence, no point mate! Since we know that we are all spirit beings having an earthly/human experience,why not have your own rules and experience. IFA made history and was appealing in the past but that was the past.

I gave you my evidence already historical evidence which sounds logical.

My dear IFA is in Cuba and America they call it Santeria. You see slaves needed to preserve their religious heritage and the only way they could do this was to worship African deities behind the guise of Catholic saints.Their Babalawo’s and Iyanifa’s are referred to as Santeros and Santeras.”

it is now practiced in the Caribbean and the United States. In Florida sometimes back they were under pressure because of animal sacrifices which was banned but in the year 1993 banning ritual animal sacrifices was seen as a violation of the rights of the followers of the Santeria religion so it was overturned”


IFA is not a judge mental religion if you read the stories of the Orisha you would know they were humans they only learn from their mistakes no one is perfect dear .

zubike01:

My dear I don't worship Olodumare the IFA religion isn't an apocalyptic religion which promises suffering for unbelievers. Olodumare doesn't need your praise or things. You said you are yoruba do you have an Oriki.

Sure i do have an Oriki just like most yorubas do. That you can tell from my name. I do appreciate the fact that the Yoruba culture is well respected in most part of the world,but however i do not worship any idol .My wife made me do a lot of research cos she tells me a lot about hers too.

ifeness:

In that case, you refer to "him" as a male. Therefore he is no spirit but flesh and blood living on another planet or universe. I have a strong believe that the aliens(orishas) genetically altered we humans,but i do know there is no "supreme" deity anywhere. ......unless you wanna prove me wrong.

LOL you believe in aliens but not in God lol

zubike01:

I gave you my evidence already historical evidence which sounds logical.

My dear IFA is in Cuba and America they call it Santeria. You see slaves needed to preserve their religious heritage and the only way they could do this was to worship African deities behind the guise of Catholic saints.Their Babalawo’s and Iyanifa’s are referred to as Santeros and Santeras.”

it is now practiced in the Caribbean and the United States. In Florida sometimes back they were under pressure because of animal sacrifices which was banned but in the year 1993 banning ritual animal sacrifices was seen as a violation of the rights of the followers of the Santeria religion so it was overturned”


IFA is not a judge mental religion if you read the stories of the Orisha you would know they were humans they only learn from their mistakes no one is perfect dear .

From the slaves perspective,it is something to hold on to....to remind them of home and probably give their future generation an identity and something to be proud of. I know an african -american lady who had to travel do Oshun state for the first time. She heard about the culture from her parents and decided to go see what its like for herself. She was well received by the villagers and was initiated into the yeye oshun cult. That gave her a sense of belonging and made her stop feeling like an alien at least in America.

The jews have the same feelings towards Yahweh.Only a shame that so many black people will be worshiping him in a few hours lol

zubike01:

LOL you believe in aliens but not in God lol

Yes i do cos we are all aliens,aint we? All the gods being worshiped are aliens.

ifeness:

Sure i do have an Oriki just like most yorubas do. That you can tell from my name. I do appreciate the fact that the Yoruba culture is well respected in most part of the world,but however i do not worship any idol .My wife made me do a lot of research cos she tells me a lot about hers too.

I too i don't worship any Orisha(ancestor) you call them idols because you refuse to see them as images of your ancestors. All am saying is i believe in Oludumare the supreme God i am not religious and I've never prayed to him or offered scarifies. But all the arguments here against God cannot stand against him because the logic behind his essence is flawless.

ifeness:

From the slaves perspective,it is something to hold on to....to remind them of home and probably give their future generation an identity and something to be proud of. I know an african -american lady who had to travel do Oshun state for the first time. She heard about the culture from her parents and decided to go see what its like for herself. She was well received by the villagers and was initiated into the yeye oshun cult. That gave her a sense of belonging and made her stop feeling like an alien at least in America.

The jews have the same feelings towards Yahweh.Only a shame that so many black people will be worshiping him in a few hours lol

I agree with you do you that it is something to hold on to for the slaves. Do you enjoy reading novels

zubike01:

I too i don't worship any Orisha(ancestor) you call them idols because you refuse to see them as images of your ancestors. All am saying is i believe in Oludumare the supreme God i am not religious and I've never prayed to him or offered scarifies. But all the arguments here against God cannot stand against him because the logic behind his essence is flawless.

If you consider Olodumare to be "supreme", then he will always be supreme to you. In my own reality, Olodumare doesn't exist. Ones i am out of my body, i become omnipotent and all knowing.

zubike01:

I agree with you do you that it is something to hold on to for the slaves. Do you enjoy reading novels

I seldom read book these days,but the internet has been very usefulll. The days of ready books will soon be over lol.....even at the learning centres

ifeness:

If you consider Olodumare to be "supreme", then he will always be supreme to you. In my own reality, Olodumare doesn't exist. Ones i am out of my body, i become omnipotent and all knowing.

THATS your believe so you are indirectly saying you are going to be an Orisha one day that is your Ori talking. Olodumare sent us here to gain experience You even belief in life after death. My brother you are not a atheist then but a free soul who wants to live life without any obligation to a superior beign thats a good thing the Ifa religion says whatever path you find happiness follow it let me share an Odu with u.

The verse tells the story of two friends who people claimed they were inseparable. Esu heard this and decided to put their friendship to the test. The two friends had a farm which shared a boundary. So Esu wore a Hat which was completely black on the Left and completely red on the right after which he walked along the border singing a melodious song aloud. Later on the two friends were discussing and one of them mentioned the fellow who walked through their farm singing melodies and his funny looking black cap the other shared a laughed but corrected him that it was a red cap. They began to argue about it till it lets to an exchange of furious fisticuff. Esu turned up and stopped the fight and explained that it was him and hat was red on one side and black on the other. That was how Esu demonstrated that people quarrel because people see things from different angles.

ifeness:

I seldom read book these days,but the internet has been very usefulll. The days of ready books will soon be over lol.....even at the learning centres

Ok nice please i would appreciate it if you could have a look @ my novel and give me a feed back http://www.jollyrougeseries.com/?page_id=51