@Afam
I think you are hardworking but one thing you need is professional design. Consider these very good web building terms: simplicity, usability and aesthetics, and if you havent done those then you are not yet qualified as a web developer. Web developers are always good designers because you cant program without designing [IMHO] without design what are you programming for , php is actually automating design of html pages.
So Afam consider getting a designer or jumping into fireworks or photoshop tutorials. I checked all your sites and I realised they had thesame design and to make things worse the sites dont reflect your potentials. You are a great guy but you need to make your works show that too. Forget the clients, you have the duty to educate them and not listen to them. Man if you are talking about simple design, then see Google and you will see that its simple yet its attractive. Not simple but unpleasant.
all in all please consider your design skills or hire a designer and concentrate on your codes and you will still be making your money. Please dont attack me again about being new on the web, because I am not new.
http://www.jidealakija.com\
this link from a previous poster is actually simple design but attractive and usable.

Afam, there is no point taking you serious, goodbye.

Hi, Afam. Well, i've decided to reply to your comments even though my natural instincts are telling me to get off not only your thread but nairaland! Now for the benefit of those reading this thread, I will clarify some facts and 'not let sleeping dogs lie.'

First, in my comments, I jumped to a guess that people like you never learn. Well I think that guess was right! as exemplified by your ignorant and - (in your own words) - 'usual stupid' assumption on SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMISATION.

Afam:

I will not waste my time responding to your position on SEO as it is obvious you are one of those that spend their time chasing google around rather than focusing on your clients. Only you won't understand, submitting websites to google or search engines is a waste of time, I don't expect you to understand this because for you to you must understand the basics of crawlers.

If I may ask, what do you mean by 'focusing on your clients'? Its a fact that google owns a 60% quota of the search engine market and it would be 'stupid' for anyone not to take them seriously. Of what use is a 'stupidly' designed site that doesn't show up in google search results? Anyways, let me educate everyone a bit. One of the major tasks of any web design outfit is to help their clients achieve their goals of reaching their target audiences and on the long run make more sales. Now how can a website help raise a company's profit margin if no one finds it? or you thought the billboard in your village would do it?

Anyways to cut the long story short, seo is a major force to be reckoned with in the web development world and anyone serious about their clients must be serious about seo and trust me, thats the definition of client focused design! I would not go into details of seo as I'm sure you all can find that out yourself.

And just for you to know Afam, submitting sites to google has nothing to do with seo. Don't even try to educate me on crawlers cause that has nothing to do neither. These things you are talking about deal with getting your site indexed by search engines. SEO deals with things such as keyword research, keyword density, google pagerank algorithm, link building etc. Enough for y'all to feast on.

By the way, this is not to say that there are not some illegal approaches to seo (black hat seo techniques) which is another topic entirely!

Afam:

Now you come with the usual stupid position that I attack people on nairaland even when I have never attacked anyone, however I have always responded to people in kind.

Men! this one was quite funny. Now if its a usual position that u attack people, why not then retrace your steps. It might not be a 'stupid' position afterall. A million people can't be all wrong you know.

And in conclusion, whats happening here is not a competition. It is just an approach to improve standards in web design in Nigeria. We all complain that a lot of companies prefer to give their jobs to overseas agencies. Why would they not, when those guys help the companies achieve their goals better. So what we are saying here is if we can improve our standards, learn from others, not take everything as a competition and not jump to 'stupid' conclusions, then maybe these fellows would start to have faith in us. Thats not to say that there are not a lot of guys doing a good job out there.

damolat:

Afam, there is no point taking you serious, goodbye.

Thanks. I wonder why you came to the party at all. I guess you should restrict your reviews to people that will prostrate to you as a show of gratitude for making comments on their websites since ordinary thank you is not enough.

danteweb:

Hi, Afam. Well, i've decided to reply to your comments even though my natural instincts are telling me to get off not only your thread but nairaland! Now for the benefit of those reading this thread, I will clarify some facts and 'not let sleeping dogs lie.'

First, in my comments, I jumped to a guess that people like you never learn. Well I think that guess was right! as exemplified by your ignorant and - (in your own words) - 'usual stupid' assumption on SEARCH ENGINE OPTIMISATION.

If I may ask, what do you mean by 'focusing on your clients'? Its a fact that google owns a 60% quota of the search engine market and it would be 'stupid' for anyone not to take them seriously. Of what use is a 'stupidly' designed site that doesn't show up in google search results? Anyways, let me educate everyone a bit. One of the major tasks of any web design outfit is to help their clients achieve their goals of reaching their target audiences and on the long run make more sales. Now how can a website help raise a company's profit margin if no one finds it? or you thought the billboard in your village would do it?

Anyways to cut the long story short, seo is a major force to be reckoned with in the web development world and anyone serious about their clients must be serious about seo and trust me, thats the definition of client focused design! I would not go into details of seo as I'm sure you all can find that out yourself.

And just for you to know Afam, submitting sites to google has nothing to do with seo. Don't even try to educate me on crawlers cause that has nothing to do neither. These things you are talking about deal with getting your site indexed by search engines. SEO deals with things such as keyword research, keyword density, google pagerank algorithm, link building etc. Enough for y'all to feast on.

By the way, this is not to say that there are not some illegal approaches to seo (black hat seo techniques) which is another topic entirely!

Again, this forum cannot be a substitute for web development basics. Thanks for all the comments on google and search. First, you need to understand the business processes of clients before you jump into the band wagon of google is a must mantra.

I will wait until your portfolio proves that you have all the right answers to the issues you have been bringing up, until then no comment and there is a huge disconnect between what you preach and the portfolio you have.

danteweb:

Men! this one was quite funny. Now if its a usual position that u attack people, why not then retrace your steps. It might not be a 'stupid' position afterall. A million people can't be all wrong you know.

I guess I wasn't writing in greek. When people insult you and you respond to the insult in kind and they turn around to accuse you of attacking people what do you make out of such people? Hypocrites and trust me with your comments thus far you are certainly one of them.

I have never insulted anyone on this forum - FACT
I have always responded to insults in kind - FACT

Now if you cannot understand the statements above it's your headache not mine.

danteweb:

And in conclusion, whats happening here is not a competition. It is just an approach to improve standards in web design in Nigeria. We all complain that a lot of companies prefer to give their jobs to overseas agencies. Why would they not, when those guys help the companies achieve their goals better. So what we are saying here is if we can improve our standards, learn from others, not take everything as a competition and not jump to 'stupid' conclusions, then maybe these fellows would start to have faith in us. Thats not to say that there are not a lot of guys doing a good job out there.

Please, take all the clients. I do not compete with people for clients because the fact is that no web developer can even handle all the business people in a particular street not to talk of a city or a state.

Show them those lovely web design skills you have even though your works don't confirm you have them. I don't know about people complaining that companies give outsiders projects to do because I have a couple of clients from the UK and US so it would amount to sheer hypocrisy if I complain that companies are outsourcing projects.

The good thing is that clients decide who they want to do business with and in most cases it is based on previous works and ability to understand what the client wants.

Clients usually prefer service providers that are honest, reliable and dependable. Learn these if you don't already have them.

I put up a website for review and rather than focus on the website I get to deal with personal attacks from people who think they have the right to attack the poster rather than the website.

Well, maybe this is why quite a number of people complain about not getting enough clients whereas others are even rejecting projects.

Keep looking for people to attack. Meanwhile, try to update the copyright information on your website and on your clients websites, this is 2008 my friend.

@ Afam, I'm very sorry if I appeared offensive. SEO is a topic i am very passionate about and I guess that might have prompted my comments. By the way, I really condem hypocricy, unhealthy rivalry and competition and if u've ever had any of these ideas from my posts, then i'm sorry. I guess we can go back to the focus of this thread now.

review of http://www.utalbuilding.com

If only everyone on this forum (including myself at times) were like danteweb, the world would be a better place.

It's all about being the bigger man, recognizing where one might have erred and moving, without prompting, to acknowledge that he has indeed erred. To push the envelop a bit further, IMHO, an even bigger man would apologize, even when they are not wrong, in the interest of peace and harmony.

So, is there anything more to say about utalbuilding.com?

Well @ Afam, It seems you have been caught in your own web! People like you never learn because they believe they know too much, whereas they are complete empty barrels. Have you ever heard of the terms 'seo and keyword research'. Well let me do you a favour. Type that into google and I guess that should keep you occupied constructively for the next 1 year!

The quote above was your first post directed at my person on this forum for no reasons at all.

If I don't welcome criticisms why would I post a website for review on a public forum?

I have openly and privately made it clear that I am not a web designer but a web programmer who would rather continue to setup websites the way I currently do than trust web designers that don't have portfolios I can trust, after all anyone can claim to be a great web designer and when put to test it becomes another story altogether.

Again, it is important to note that there is a world of difference between comments made about a website and personal attacks on the poster.

I respect your views on SEO but in my opinion not all websites need SEO.

Where do you search to find google on the net? What of yahoo or cnn?

Unless you are dealing on digital products having the world search for and locate your website will do you more harm than good, trust me.

wot's IMHO

I(n) M(y) H(umble) O(pinion)

@dantewb
ur the man jo.

Afam the 'developer' strikes again. Its like driving badly and giving the excuse that you can't drive, instead of learning or getting a driver. People are just trying to tell you that aesthetically ur site isnt the best. You admitted why. Instead, of sitting on your oars and blaming your lack of design skills, try and find a way to improve it instead of jumping down their throats. That's not the way to progress, man.

hanen:

@dantewb
your the man jo.

Afam the 'developer' strikes again. Its like driving badly and giving the excuse that you can't drive, instead of learning or getting a driver. People are just trying to tell you that aesthetically your site isnt the best. You admitted why. Instead, of sitting on your oars and blaming your lack of design skills, try and find a way to improve it instead of jumping down their throats. That's not the way to progress, man.

I have never claimed my design was the best. Never will.

However, all my websites don't have broken links, are easy to navigate, are easy to read.

Do I have to hire a driver that does not even know how to start a car just to satisfy you? No.

Comments and suggestions must not be taken and so far it seems you can't swallow someone rejecting some of your silly suggestions, too bad, you are not my client so your thoughts don't matter on this issue.

Meanwhile, dem forbid you to develop websites? Why not practice what you preach by leading the way abi your destiny na to dey abuse people wey no take your advice?

Do I have to hire a driver that does not even know how to start a car just to satisfy you? No.

WHAT!?? ;DAbeg, stop embarassing yourself just cos you want to make a point (whatever that is)! We don't know you personally, we're not out to get you. More 2 or 3 people can't be saying the same thing to spite you.

Na wa o, No-ones begging you to take advice. Just stop getting so defensive. Its unnecessary. I've said my own.
I don't have any point to make to YOU, so I dont see why I should show you my work.

You know, its always fun to watch you do this EVERYTIME you ask for a review. You're so predictable! I dont even know why you bother!

Do you know the meaning of getting defensive?

I post websites for reviews.

I get comments.

I accept some and reject some.

Now those that have their comments rejected take offense and begin to focus on my person.

I reply in kind and people like you begin to hypocritically complain.

My sites are mine so do not purge on behalf of others abeg.

Afam:

I respect your views on SEO but in my opinion not all websites need SEO.

Where do you search to find google on the net? What of yahoo or cnn?

Unless you are dealing on digital products having the world search for and locate your website will do you more harm than good, trust me.

@ Afam. seems this discussion on seo would continue.

In my opinion, I think every commercial company that has an online presence would definitely need SEO. Lets take utal building for example. They do curtain walls, roofing and stuff. Lets assume I'm building a multipurpose hall and need roofing products, the first place i'll think of going to, in this information age, is my search engine. Going to google and typing 'roofing products nigeria' gives me some results which don't include utal building. Thats thousands of potiential clients lost!

You might be wondering why, despite your site containing the keywords 'roofing', 'products' and 'nigeria'. Well thats where seo comes in.

In SEO, you literally go into customer's minds, and think of what they might be trying to find. You then optimise your site for those keywords.

cnn, google and yahoo are global brands that everyone knows of already and do not need any search enginge marketing. Nevertheless, if you type 'news' or 'news america' into google, cnn still comes up!

danteweb:

@ Afam. seems this discussion on seo would continue.

In my opinion, I think every commercial company that has an online presence would definitely need SEO. Lets take utal building for example. They do curtain walls, roofing and stuff. Lets assume I'm building a multipurpose hall and need roofing products, the first place i'll think of going to, in this information age, is my search engine. Going to google and typing 'roofing products nigeria' gives me some results which don't include utal building. Thats thousands of potiential clients lost!

You might be wondering why, despite your site containing the keywords 'roofing', 'products' and 'nigeria'. Well thats where seo comes in.

In SEO, you literally go into customer's minds, and think of what they might be trying to find. You then optimise your site for those keywords.

cnn, google and yahoo are global brands that everyone knows of already and do not need any search enginge marketing. Nevertheless, if you type 'news' or 'news america' into google, cnn still comes up!

@danteweb,

I spoke to someone who believed that the computer represents 666 and he claimed his pastor told him so and according to him if all the money in the world has to be made using the computer he wouldn't want to be part of it.

This man is very very rich anyway.

There are people who do not use the internet let alone depend on it for search.

That said, I agree that SEO makes sense for some websites and don't make sense for others.

How come yahoo and google became global brands? They focused on servicing the customers not trying to tailor their websites to suit another company's business model for example google.

It is not uncommon for website owners to provide information on their websites that first and foremost appeal to what google wants as regards search algorithm than content that should help convert prospective customers to paying clients or help service already existing customers.

I stated earlier that some businesses will simply embarrass themselves by making themselves found on google, I will use an example to explain.

Let us imagine that XYZ Company deals on ladies shoes. Let us also assume that the typical inventory being maintained by this country is just enough for 30 people in any typical week.

Now a website that could bring in 1000s of potential customers would do this business more harm than good because the business will have to disappoint about 9,970 people because it can only satisfy 30 people in any given week.

So, while SEO makes sense in some cases there are web projects or companies that cannot benefit from it not because SEO is bad but because by default SEO cannot help them.

Trust me companies like Utal spend time developing brochures that they mail to high profile clients. See the list of their clients and you will understand what I am talking about.

Do not also forget that some people go online just because friends and competitors are doing so.

Thanks for reading thus far. My opinions, feel free to discard them.

hanen:

Afam the \'developer\' strikes again.

lol

1. @ the man who believes the computer represents 666, does he keep all his money at home or at the bank. If he uses the bank then he'd better tell
them not to check his account balance using the computer.

2. I've never seen a company who's got too much customers. When companies attain a high client base, what they do is to expand, not reject the customers.

3. Its good to mail brochures to prospective clients but why would someone want to keep all their eggs in one basket? With search engines, businesses reach their target markets cause a user would not click on a link if he/she is not interested in it, so the conversion ratio is high. In conventional marketing, you target people who you think / hope would need your services and thats got a very low conversion ratio!

4. If I go online cause others are doing so, there is a probability that I might stumble on something that interests me and then I become someone's customer!

5. You said yahoo and google became global brands by servicing their customers. My argument is this. First they tried to get the customers before servicing them. If you dont have customers, then you are going to service empty air!

AFAM AFAM, ooo AFAM, yu know, i had to ignore all other post just to lash you,

but somehow, i feel yu just aint worth the words, yu design really crap, as in, big time crap. and expect people to comment on how silly you get, just face it. this web thingy isnt for you. Go back to school, and start a new career.

danteweb:

1. @ the man who believes the computer represents 666, does he keep all his money at home or at the bank. If he uses the bank then he'd better tell
them not to check his account balance using the computer.

He was clutching a mobile phone as he was speaking and I asked him if he thought he was communicating with people thousands of miles away using juju.

danteweb:

2. I've never seen a company who's got too much customers. When companies attain a high client base, what they do is to expand, not reject the customers.

I have. www.justalternativepower.com is my alternative energy website and on the website I stated that we cannot handle orders until next month because of the sheer number of people that want our inverters, about 50% of them from this forum alone.

Expanding is easy to talk about but in any specialist field getting relevant and intelligent people is really not easy especially when you offer 1 year warranty on all your inverters. Just had a meeting with two clients this afternoon that agreed to wait for 2 more weeks even when the money will be made available tomorrow.

danteweb:

3. Its good to mail brochures to prospective clients but why would someone want to keep all their eggs in one basket? With search engines, businesses reach their target markets cause a user would not click on a link if he/she is not interested in it, so the conversion ratio is high. In conventional marketing, you target people who you think / hope would need your services and thats got a very low conversion ratio!

The company decides what it wants to do. I doubt if any company will change its business process without top management buy in.

danteweb:

4. If I go online cause others are doing so, there is a probability that I might stumble on something that interests me and then I become someone's customer!

Well, this is for the client who decides to go online just because others are.

danteweb:

5. You said yahoo and google became global brands by servicing their customers. My argument is this. First they tried to get the customers before servicing them. If you don't have customers, then you are going to service empty air!

Did they get to use google to become global brands? No. I cannot remember seeing yahoo advertise on NTA before I knew what yahoo was doing. Every good product sells itself real good. Google is making money by doing with it does well. Others are also doing well by doing what they do well. Coca cola makes millions every day and I am sure the web or google does not have a great deal to do with that.

timmy:

AFAM AFAM, ooo AFAM, yu know, i had to ignore all other post just to lash you,

but somehow, i feel yu just aint worth the words, yu design really crap, as in, big time crap. and expect people to comment on how silly you get, just face it. this web thingy isnt for you. Go back to school, and start a new career.

1. You want me to go back to school to learn how to design 800+ static websites? No, I will not. I will leave your type to become experts on that one.

2. New career when I run 2 successful companies I started from scratch? Trust me.

You were bragging about the 800+ static website you designed for one university, what happened? Have they finally realized that you were a complete slowpoke and given the website to a better person to manage?

Guy, people like you will design and even upload full websites with their mouths even when they don't know the difference between static and dynamic websites.

@Afam
I have one question: DO YOU THINK YOUR SITES HAVE GOOD DESIGN OR VERY POOR DESIGN.
and why do u think so

your answer to the question will help many people out there
chaoo!!!

mambenanje:

@Afam
I have one question: DO YOU THINK YOUR SITES HAVE GOOD DESIGN OR VERY POOR DESIGN.
and why do u think so

your answer to the question will help many people out there
chaoo!!!

VERY POOR DESIGN.

Reason: So that people like you will get busy facing your own businesses rather than trying to hang on what I do which by the way people pay for.

I am beginning to sense frustration on the part of some of you who are hell bent on Afam changing his design even when you are allowed to pretend that your designs are better.

So, as long as people pay for my services I will keep making money, I also hope that those of you that are excellent designers make enough money rather than complaining all the time.

@Afam
I have one question: DO YOU THINK YOUR SITES HAVE GOOD DESIGN OR VERY POOR DESIGN.
and why do u think so Huh

your answer to the question will help many people out there
chaoo!!!

Maybe this would have been a better reply,

I think my sites have a poor design because I am a programmer and programmers are not meant to know anything about design, they are also not meant to employ good designers because they will steal our programming skills and run us out of business.
After all I have never told anyone on nairaland that I am the best designer in the world, I don't know where people are getting their foolish ideas from.
Thank you all.

E yaa, it seems that some people find it difficult to live with the fact that I must not take their advice, sorry, can't do much to help you.

In any case, your line of reasoning is petty and I would be surprised if you are not really petty in real life.

So now that it appears that we have beaten this thread to a pulp, how about we turn our remaining energy to the following threads?

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-122813.0.html

and

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-122722.0.html

I guess people should not be guided as regards what they choose to reply to.

This forum gives everyone the opportunity to air his/her views no matter how reasonable or stupid.

The good thing is that when people end up exposing themselves as narrow minded people they lack the courage to even contribute meaningfully.

Na people like this go claim say anybody wey get good moto or house na juju man/woman instead of trying to better themselves. Pity.

Afam, you know, to be a very stupid person is more difficult that to stop being one, so il not advice you to stop being stupid, you keep screaming about my 800 pages like its a crime to humanity or like i broke some laws that should get me hanged, Your lack of development experience is what is making you d!ck head not realize that we have servers that don't run some web services. Google is there to help you. How ever you try to shift the topic, the fact still remains that you suck at what you do, and hey, what the f@%k those is take to run 10 companies, wen all yu need is just a name and a logo, from your website we can easily tell how successful your company is, im sure your worth well enuff to be at par with my front desk attendant.

Hey i forgot to chip this in, and rather than edit my quote, i decide a new post,

Young man, are you too dumb to know what a web manager is, or even an in house webmaster,

well its someone who manages the content of an existing website, and by manages i mean, update, add, edit, create, delete contents and more.
And as stupid as you may seem, why would i look for a webmaster to come redesign my work.

You know what? ive decided to write one of your clients a revamp proposal of one of your dirty works and guess what? il be duin it for free, cos im so sure they just might not be able to afford me. if you've got the ball, list out any of your jobs, letme choose the one il revamp,

Actually I am trying to see if the national assembly can make design of 800+ static website punishable because you are a complete embarrassment to IT as a whole.

I got work for you, I need a 900+ static website that will be updated every day, send your quote or rather paste your quote here, olodo.

timmy:

You know what? ive decided to write one of your clients a revamp proposal of one of your dirty works and guess what? il be duin it for free, because im so sure they just might not be able to afford me. if you've got the ball, list out any of your jobs, letme choose the one il revamp,

Ok, but first revamp the 800+ static website first and I will take it from there

as jobless as the assembly might seem, your case would be the first that would involve flogging the person who proposed such senseless bill.

And okon or is it mumu, sry afam, FYI my 800 pages is dymanic, its been dynamic for some months now. by the way i think you should check the site.

still waiting for your list,