Over the last couple of years, i have been fortunate to talk to a good number of atheists and agnostics with very good results. These are some of my observations and comments.

1. Make it a discussion not a debate: A common sense discussion. Within the discussion, there might be debates but do not approach with the attitude of a debate. In debates, people want to win, It is all about the ego. In discussions, there might be exchange of ideas and some progress.

2. Get the background: This is the most important discussion in my opinion. Most atheists are atheists because of a tragedy in their lives or a frustration with their previous faith. It is not about some form of reason or logic... Some just want to do what they want without feeling guilty.

I had a discussion once with an ex-catholic sister in Pennsylvania, she wanted to know a few things about muslim women and after i gave her an explanation.I asked her why she became an atheist. Her response can be summarised as this: Religion made me feel guilty and restricted me from doing what i wanted, Now i don't have to feel guilty. There was talk of sexual frustration, etc.

In the end, the only arguments she had were emotional.

I went into answering her questions about faith ( as a muslim, of course) and even though she agreed with what i said. She told me (not exact words): To be a slave to God I can't do that!!

It was all about rebellion.

Get into the background, see what went wrong and build from there.

3. It is difficult to change: Sometimes, atheists get to the edge of becoming muslim and just do not go further. This is usually out of fear of the unknown. I had a discussion with a former hindu atheist once, as usual i asked for a background and we built our discussion from there.

He asked for 'proof' of God and i somehow got into a discussion of the Quran and how it could not possibly be the work of a man. My atheist friend was stumped... Silence!!... Haven't heard from him since, refused to answer my messages. I know he continued studying Islam because he watched and 'liked' some Islamic videos on his youtube page.

The truth is: Change is hard... It takes a courageous person to make the changes.

I had an agnostic friend who also faced that difficulty coming to Islam.

Be patient with these guys, it was difficult to leave faith in the first place, It will be difficult to return.

4. The militant atheist: These guys are actually the funniest to deal with. Generally, These are guys with very shaky 'faith' in atheism so they always seek to reaffirm that faith by preaching it to everyone. They come with very shallow arguments and are quick to get into long-winded debates.

From my experience, It is more about reaffirmation. Every time they are stumped, they go trying to prove you wrong.

I remember the story of an atheist who visited muslim events regularly for no other reason but to address the speaker at the end and ask 'tough' questions. He was a militant atheist, Today he is a muslim.

Even the obnoxious preachy atheist could come to faith.


(note: Apparently these are stories and experiences from a muslim, you can share yours)

Is this your own personal experience or is it just copy & paste?

manmustwac: Is this your own personal experience or is it just copy & paste?

My personal experiences

Sometimes you people just miss the target by a thousand miles.

What you wrote is total nonsense...if i may ask how many athiests in NL has your formula worked for?....none!

Kay 17: Sometimes you people just miss the target by a thousand miles.

Firstly, this is based on personal experiences with a decent sample size of atheists and agnostics. Not every atheist is the same, you might feel it does not apply to you..

Yooguyz: What you wrote is total nonsense...if i may ask how many athiests in NL has your formula worked for?....none!

Please point out the nonsense!! Nairaland is built for debates, inspite of that, i feel i have had many useful discussions(/debates) with atheists and agnostics on Nairaland too.

Private conversations are far more effective.

Again, these are my personal opinions/experiences.

Lolz. The making of an intellectual nonsense.

Reyginus: Lolz. The making of an intellectual nonsense.

Ah, no questions this time... And I hope I don't ever get on your ever changing sig...

hw ws service?

Reyginus: Lolz. The making of an intellectual nonsense.

And your comment makes sense??

Please present the 'nonsense' part and relate your own opinions instead of making shallow comments.

musKeeto:
Ah, no questions this time... And I hope I don't ever get on your ever changing sig...

hw ws service?

lol. Why so?

tbaba1234:

And your comment makes sense??

Please present the 'nonsense' part and relate your own opinions instead of making shallow comments.

Smh. Is it appropriate to eat a food that is still half-done?

It baffles me how you Religious people use the term 'Agnostic' so wide!!

Agnosticism "is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.

Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism."


But if you are using Agnosticism here as somebody who doesn't give a horse sh!t about unna god, abeg brother, How do you argue with such a person? A real "agnostic" can never be seen arguing about god!

^ I know;

I haven't said much about agnostic in my post. I don't know why you felt like you needed to define it.

Many of the things do apply to them as well. 1-3 still apply to the agnostic, one of my flatmates was agnostic once. Sometimes they just do not want to 'know'. Faith would bring about too many changes in their lives.

tbaba1234:

2. Get the background: This is the most important discussion in my opinion. Most atheists are atheists because of a tragedy in their lives or a frustration with their previous faith. It is not about some form of reason or logic... Some just want to do what they want without feeling guilty.

The bolded is most unfortunate.

It seems that this is what most theists here use to reconcile themselves to atheism ie, atheists seek to escape moral responsibility. Anony shamefully made the point in support of his claim to being a former atheist.
Here is what I want you to think about.

Is it possible for someone who knows god exists but resents the fact because it restrains him from evil to suddenly stop believing in god just so he could do whatever he pleases ?

Is it not more likely that if someone knew of the existence of god but resented it because of its restraints, that person would be more of a rebel against god instead of a non believer ?

How does someone who knows or believe manage to deceive or convince himself that he does not believe or know ? Is that possible ? Think about this.

Is it not more logical that a person would believe, but rebel or resent (while still believing) ?

An atheist is not a rebel against god, an atheist does not believe in god. A rebel against god can be brought back to the fold (eg Anony if his story is indeed true. I read a lot of hogwash on that thread and not only from him).

The long and short of it is that atheists do not seek to escape from morality. There are people who choose to ignore moral principles in every facet of life. Christians do it, muslims do it, jews etc. The leaders of Nigeria that steal our money and give their pastors expensive gifts and donations, how moral are they ? Yet they retain their respective religions. They remain convinced of the existence of god and have no plans to live according to the dictates of religion.

They kill, steal and pray.

Some people turn their back on their religion and satisfy their desires, true. That however is not the same thing as atheism. Not by a long shot Sir.

Anyone who says "I am an atheist because I want to do as I please" is as mistaken as Mike Tyson calling himself a white ballerina.

Nice post tbaba. I didnt know muslims are this inteligent.

jayriginal:
The bolded is most unfortunate.

It seems that this is what most theists here use to reconcile themselves to atheism ie, atheists seek to escape moral responsibility. Anony shamefully made the point in support of his claim to being a former atheist.

I gave you a case study of this kind. Now It does not mean all atheists fall into this category. The key word here 'some'.

Here is what I want you to think about.

Is it possible for someone who knows god exists but resents the fact because it restrains him from evil to suddenly stop believing in god just so he could do whatever he pleases ?

Is it not more likely that if someone knew of the existence of god but resented it because of its restraints, that person would be more of a rebel against god instead of a non believer ?

How does someone who knows or believe manage to deceive or convince himself that he does not believe or know ? Is that possible ? Think about this.

Is it not more logical that a person would believe, but rebel or resent (while still believing) ?

Knowledge and guidance are two different things. Many times, we convince ourselves of what we want to believe. We have biases that define how we see things and how we want to see things.

From my experience, people build resentment towards God and atheism gives them a way out. They convince themselves of it. That is why some people can present only emotional arguments for their unbelief.

Those that rebel still term themselves atheists; we can not see the hearts ... can we?

Point: There are atheists who rebel, it might not be the entire population.

mumumugu: Nice post tbaba. I didnt know muslims are this inteligent.

I guess, that is one more myth busted

tchaik:
It baffles me how you Religious people use the term 'Agnostic' so wide!!

Agnosticism "is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.

Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism."


But if you are using Agnosticism here as somebody who doesn't give a horse sh!t about unna god, abeg brother, How do you argue with such a person? A real "agnostic" can never be seen arguing about god!

Good point!

I think Christians qualify as agnostic theist.

tchaik:
It baffles me how you Religious people use the term 'Agnostic' so wide!!

Agnosticism "is not about belief in god but about knowledge — it was coined originally to describe the position of a person who could not claim to know for sure if any gods exist or not.

Thus, it is clear that agnosticism is compatible with both theism and atheism. A person can believe in a god (theism) without claiming to know for sure if that god exists; the result is agnostic theism. On the other hand, a person can disbelieve in gods (atheism) without claiming to know for sure that no gods can or do exist; the result is agnostic atheism."


But if you are using Agnosticism here as somebody who doesn't give a horse sh!t about unna god, abeg brother, How do you argue with such a person? A real "agnostic" can never be seen arguing about god!

Good point!

tbaba1234:

I gave you a case study of this kind. Now It does not mean all atheists fall into this category. The key word here 'some'.

You apparently didnt consider the questions I asked you.

Knowledge and guidance are two different things. Many times, we convince ourselves of what we want to believe. We have biases that define how we see things and how we want to see things.

Self deception you mean ?

From my experience, people build resentment towards God and atheism gives them a way out. They convince themselves of it. That is why some people can present only emotional arguments for their unbelief.

Such people can be considered "rebels" against god, not atheists. There really is a clear difference. If someone turns his back on god because his loved one dies, that person still believes in god, just refuses to worship out of rebellion. That person is not an atheist !

Those that rebel still term themselves atheists; we can not see the hearts ... can we?

Point: There are atheists who rebel, it might not be the entire population.

Yes, anyone can call himself an atheist. I can call myself Obama too . See what I mean ?

jayriginal:

You apparently didnt consider the questions I asked you.

I did

Self deception you mean ?

Such people can be considered "rebels" against god, not atheists. There really is a clear difference. If someone turns his back on god because his loved one dies, that person still believes in god, just refuses to worship out of rebellion. That person is not an atheist !

Yes, anyone can call himself an atheist. I can call myself Obama too . See what I mean ?

Your analogy does not follow. A person that calls himself obama can easily be identified, a person that calls himself an atheist out of rebellion can not...

It is a thing of the heart not an outward characteristic.

Many Atheists i would argue, belong to this category....

Like i said earlier, we convince ourselves many times of what we want to believe. A person could start as a rebel and as a result of that rebellion disbelieve in God totally. Sometimes it is a progression to atheism from rebellion.

Many atheists are products of that process.

tbaba1234:
2. Get the background: This is the most important discussion in my opinion. Most atheists are atheists because of a tragedy in their lives or a frustration with their previous faith. It is not about some form of reason or logic... Some just want to do what they want without feeling guilty.

You are so wrong. First off, I have atheist friends- many of whom became atheists out of reading and finding out the problems in the holy books and learning about the paradoxes of God.


Also, like a typical ethnocentric Nigerian/American, you can not reason that millions of people in Asia are born into atheistic families and do not come from a religious background as well.

Furthermore, I dont know how you assume that people become atheists not to feel guilty about what they do. Have you seen the atrocities just last year from your muslim extremists? It is religion that removes or supresses that guilt and not a lack of religion. How many atheists have made the news for honour killing or terrorism? Religion can remove a lot of guilt in murder, especially when one believes he is doing it for God.


There are many people who become atheists for logical reasons. You cant accept this truth because that would be a problem for your religion.

tbaba1234:
4. The militant atheist: These guys are actually the funniest to deal with. Generally, These are guys with very shaky 'faith' in atheism so they always seek to reaffirm that faith by preaching it to everyone. They come with very shallow arguments and are quick to get into long-winded debates.

From my experience, It is more about reaffirmation. Every time they are stumped, they go trying to prove you wrong.

It is of no surprise that you couldnt mention a Nairaland atheist as an example. Can you name one atheist that you have stumped? Can you name some shallow arguments from atheists?

^ 1. Even with atheists from such backgrounds, getting the background is important as well. I had a friend from china and it works just as well understanding the background. Yes, many , many atheists come to it from tragedy and from frustrations w

2. I do not mean to brag but it seems your memory fails you... Please review these threads... https://www.nairaland.com/990238/conversation-atheist
https://www.nairaland.com/949839/another-quranic-coincidence-subhanallah


You are the king of shallow arguments so you wouldn't consider your arguments shallow. All i need to do is dig up your threads.. The thread on your signature is full of shallow arguments.

tbaba1234: ^ 1. Even with atheists from such backgrounds, getting the background is important as well. I had a friend from china and it works just as well understanding the background. Yes, many , many atheists come to it from tragedy and from frustrations w

2. I do not mean to brag but it seems your memory fails you... Please review these threads... https://www.nairaland.com/990238/conversation-atheist
https://www.nairaland.com/949839/another-quranic-coincidence-subhanallah


You are the king of shallow arguments so you wouldn't consider your arguments shallow. All i need to do is dig up your threads.. The thread on your signature is full of shallow arguments.

I will become a muslim if you can solve the paradoxes of omnipotence and omniscience from the thread on my signature. You can only claim that my arguments are shallow you cant prove it.


As if I knew. The only thread you could bring up was the one which your were hiding behind Arabic? The only argument that you have ever had a chance of winning agaisnt atheists was one in a language that only you knew- Arabic.




Thank you for highlighting how shallow you are



Why not bring up the other 99% of threads? Evolution, wifebeating, shirk etc

tbaba1234:

I did



Your analogy does not follow. A person that calls himself obama can easily be identified, a person that calls himself an atheist out of rebellion can not...

It is a thing of the heart not an outward characteristic.

Many Atheists i would argue, belong to this category....

Like i said earlier, we convince ourselves many times of what we want to believe. A person could start as a rebel and as a result of that rebellion disbelieve in God totally. Sometimes it is a progression to atheism from rebellion.

Many atheists are products of that process.

I rest.

Is that a genuine promise? I would hold you to it...

I gave you a choice of all languages that match in style and content, And you complain about Arabic The thread is open for others to review.

Anyway, If you are sincere with your promise... Then we can discuss it outside Nairaland.

tbaba1234: Is that a genuine promise? I would hold you to it...

I gave you a choice of all languages that match in style and content, And you complain about Arabic The thread is open for others to review.

Anyway, If you are sincere with your promise... Then we can discuss it outside Nairaland.

lol....you have nothing. You hid behind Arabic (that only you knew) to defend your religion. The thread is there for all to see.



Feel free to create a thread about the paradoxes of God and I will address you there.

Out of thousands of languages?? It is open for review by neutrals anyway...

I have to be sure, you are sincere. Conversion is a huge deal. Are you prepared for the changes that come with it? I can not waste my time.

@tbaba
What's so special about the quoran that makes you jump into the conclusion it most be of divine origin?

tbaba1234: Out of thousands of languages?? It is open for review by neutrals anyway...

I have to be sure, you are sincere. Conversion is a huge deal. Are you prepared for the changes that come with it? I can not waste my time.

You have nothing abeg.

Logicboy03:

You have nothing abeg.

ofcourse,

Don't make statements, you do not mean.