frosbel:

Thanks.

Let me reiterate that there are some wonderful Pastors , Deacons and Apostles out there.

All I am saying and also the writer of this article , is that we should test all things and hold on to that which is good.

Fellowship is very very important.

These articles are targeted at hirelings and not true Shepherds.

Blessings.

yeah there are true pastors.

frosbel:


In Heb 13:17, believers are encouraged to “obey” church leaders. Interestingly, the Greek behind “obey” is not the regular Greek word for “obey.” Instead, peitho is used, which literally means “to persuade” or “to convince.” Thus, Heb 13:17 should be rendered “let yourselves be persuaded by.” This same verse also instructs believers to “submit” to the authority of their church leaders. As with “obey,” the common Greek word for “submit” is not used. Instead, hupeiko was chosen by the author, a word meaning “to give in, to yield” after a fight. It was used of combatants.

Thus, God’s flock is to be open to being “persuaded by” (peitho) elders. In the course of on-going discussion and teaching the flock is to be “convinced by” (peitho) its leaders. Mindless slave-like obedience is not the relationship pictured in the NT between elders and other Believers.

Heb 13:7 reflects the fact that the leadership “style” employed by elders is primarily one of direction by example: “Remember your leaders… Consider the outcome of their way of life and imitate their faith.” Along this same line, 1 Th 5:12-13 reveals that godly elders are to be respected, not because of automatically inferred authority of rank, but because of the value of their service–”Hold them in highest regard in love because of their work.” Jesus said, “You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and their high officials exercise authority over them. Not so with you. Instead, whoever wants to become great among you must be your servant, and whoever wants to be first must be your slave” (Mt 20:25-28).

So in essence, you are saying the same thing I am saying - it is the 'style' or 'manner' of exercising authority that matters, not that there is a lack of authority.

debosky:

So in essence, you are saying the same thing I am saying - it is the 'style' or 'manner' of exercising authority that matters, not that there is a lack of authority.

No MAN in the church has authority over another MAN, we are all brethren, you keep throwing away the words of JESUS and going back to Hebrew 13 where rule means persuade or influence by example.

Mark 9:35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."

frosbel:


No MAN in the church has authority over another MAN, we are all brethren, you keep throwing away the words of JESUS and going back to Hebrew 13 where rule means persuade or influence by example.

Mark 9:35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, "If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all."

I haven't thrown anything away - influence by example is a form of authority, so is persuasion. Jesus has simply advocated servant leadership - a leader that whose authority isn't based on force/coercion, but on the strength of his character and influence of his example.

I see you're stuck on your definition of authority and can't move on. Let me help you with a few definitions.

The word authority is derived from the Latin word auctoritas, meaning invention, advice, opinion, influence, or command.

1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
b. One that is invested with this power, especially a government or body of government officials: land titles issued by the civil authority.
2. Power assigned to another; authorization: Deputies were given authority to make arrests.
3. A public agency or corporation with administrative powers in a specified field: a city transit authority.
4.
a. An accepted source of expert information or advice: a noted authority on birds; a reference book often cited as an authority.
b. A quotation or citation from such a source: biblical authorities for a moral argument.
5. Justification; grounds: On what authority do you make such a claim?
6. A conclusive statement or decision that may be taken as a guide or precedent.
7. Power to influence or persuade resulting from knowledge or experience: political observers who acquire authority with age.
8. Confidence derived from experience or practice; firm self-assurance: played the sonata with authority.


Basically - influence is a form of authority. Church leaders are not to exercise authority in the manner the 'Gentiles' do, but by example, persuasion and influence.

Absolute power corrupts absolutely...and that is why I loathe when people wrongly use the quote 'touch not my anointed'.

No man is infallible and YES!!!! Pastors are not above criticisms and demand for accountability,lest they into cult personalities.

As far as I am concerned buying a private jet or a rolls royce phantom with funds from your congregation,is fraud (my opinion).

The bible said,' Look unto JESUS (not ur pastor) the author and finisher of our faith'.

@debosky

The word authority is derived from the Latin word auctoritas, meaning invention, advice, opinion, influence, or command.
1.
a. The power to enforce laws, exact obedience, command, determine, or judge.
b. One that is invested with this power, especially a government or body of government officials: land titles issued by the civil authority.
2. Power assigned to another; authorization: Deputies were given authority to make arrests.
3. A public agency or corporation with administrative powers in a specified field: a city transit authority.
4.
a. An accepted source of expert information or advice: a noted authority on birds; a reference book often cited as an authority.
b. A quotation or citation from such a source: biblical authorities for a moral argument.
5. Justification; grounds: On what authority do you make such a claim?
6. A conclusive statement or decision that may be taken as a guide or precedent.
7. Power to influence or persuade resulting from knowledge or experience: political observers who acquire authority with age.
8. Confidence derived from experience or practice; firm self-assurance: played the sonata with authority.


Basically - influence is a form of authority. Church leaders are not to exercise authority in the manner the 'Gentiles' do, but by example, persuasion and influence

let me ask you this, is the book of Mark written originally with latin? no is the answer, it was written in greek/aramaic

so it is MISLEADING to use a wrong interpretatation that suit your fraud! keep fighting the bible!