Was having a little debate about this and thought I should open it up..

It's easy to say no, but think about it. What are the chances of getting a high-quality, global job if one doesn't have some sort of history with a top-ranked global school? What are the chances of finding a graduate of Herriot-Watt doing meaningful, specialized work in the the Goldman Sachs London office? These company's sometimes only recruit from certain schools anyway. It's easy and a cliched to say "anything is possible" or "It's what you can do...," but can you back these assertions up with factual, searchable examples?

Help close this "school doesn't matter" debate, wise ones.

Ask Bill Gate.

magaliyu: Ask Bill Gate.

Sure. Bill Gates probably perpetuates the idea that school does matter. He attended one of the most exclusive and elite preparatory colleges in the US where he had the opportunity to become one of less than 20 American teenagers with access to a computer with 'superior' coding capabilities. He later aced his SAT with a near perfect score after which he enrolled in Harvard. He developed groundbreaking computing solutions while in Harvard. He also met Steve Balmer who later succeeded him as CEO of Microsoft later in life. You should read "Outliers" by Gladwell. You'll understand how Bill was one of the most privileged (and gifted) kids on his time.

Also, please avoid digressing. I know you can become wealthy without going to Oxford. I'll prefer not to see names like Dangote. Just want to know whether a prospective hot-shot in Wall Street (or the equivalent in the legal/academic/engineering/etc profession) will encounter a different degree of difficulty penetrating the system for the top jobs having graduated from the corners of Barnet.

Good Topic, I am of the school of tought that the school goes a long way in the kind of employment that we get. Obvious example is were I work presently where all the peeps that studied abroad almost easily get an appointment and rake in the millions, these guys are not neccessarily smarter than I am but they get more paid.

Would be Interesting to see what the general opinion is if this post can be promoted to the Home Page.

@seunosewa please make it happen.

It depends

As you have rightly explained the case of Bill Gates. He was actually a brilliant student just did not see the need to continue school when he started raking in the windfall from his coding abilities.

Back to the topic. In an elitist society, school does matter. All the Fortune whate'r companies like to have employees from the very top schools for various reasons. Some of which but not limited to are:

1. The process of getting into schools like Harvard, Stanford and the likes goes beyond money. They actually have to be very convinced you are a very brilliant student before granting you an admission to a program. And you have to be that brilliant because you are competing with tens of thousands of very focused candidates from around the world.

2. Schools in this category are of premium brand. Employers know this and the schools will want to hold on to that insignia they have carved out for themselves by not admitting mediocre students.

3. They have fat accounts from which they use some for research purpose. That is why disruptive ideas usually come from these top schools. They are constantly on the look out for new ways to change the way things are done. Probably, the reason they also ask applicants to write essays, motivation letters and the likes to make see that they candidate is not only brilliant in class but can as well think creative and smart.

4 Employers know they are insured by choosing prospective employees from these top institutions.

That is not to say lesser ranked institutions cannot have good students. I personally hold the opinion that regardless of the institution you attended, you can as well make yourself competitive. The key is to keep learning, reading and researching in your field. This is the information age and about almost everything is readily available online or in books.

Even if you don't get into Goldman Sachs by the influence of the school you attended, you can always try again perhaps by doing another degree in one of the top schools for instance an MBA from Stanford after couple years of work experience.

Or even better, go for an exchange semester or year at these top institutions. You just won't get the degree but you will gain knowledge.

Y,

Thanks, Y. Very insightful.

@moderator please push topic to homepage and lets get more opinions.

School matters, primarily for networking purposes. Not for the content per se.

It's more likely you will get funding for your research if you're working out of MIT Media lab, than if you were working out of the University of Chattanooga. Not necessarily because the quality of work is better. But usually it is, because you have better resources to work with.

Does school matter? First of all, matter is anything that has weight and can occupy space, and since school is heavy and .........bla bla bla

Don't mind me,seriously, Yes! It does, just make sure you go to one of the best around, you are sure to manage the portfolios of one of the best PE firms, manage the human resources of one the best IT and fmcg companies, be at the helm of affairs of the high-tech companies and upstream oyel companies in the world. But one thing is this, discover yourself, acquire more knowledge (theoretically and practically) along the path where your passion lies, and be the smart and the hardworking type. Believe me, the sky will definitely be your starting point (please ensure that you continue to acquire more knowledge-relevant even if you are at the peak of your career).

Case study 1: Mr Seun loves tech things, he decides to build a forum website, and within five years, it becomes a success, meanwhile within the five years, he goes to a good school(like Harvard or MIIT) where technology is the mainstay, he comes out and with his pet project and brainchild being the best around(his locality), he is being sought by big hi-tech companies, he agrees to join one of the best around and he becomes a semi-god there, his project is still being managed and later acquired (like 51% stake) by the high-tech he is working with and believe me, his pet project (then) becomes an international one, don't forget he is still one of the major shareholders of his.....and bla bla bla

Seun combined passion and education together, and the two did shoot him into the skies

nitrogen:
Seun combined passion and education together, and the two did shoot him into the skies

He did?

AjanleKoko:

He did?

Yes! In my case study anyway.

Indeed. Recently attended that Bank of America Merill Lynch event here in Lagos. The panel was composed of about 6 people. One from MIT, another from Warwick, one LSE, one Yale (I think this one studied some course in the Arts) etc... It was obvious that these guys were targeted, and the HR lady there somewhat mistakenly admitted that certain schools are targeted while she tried to prove that they have the best talent across the world.

Question time, and rather than ask some pertinent questions to probe the motive of their trip to Lagos and realistically assess their chances of securing graduate roles and internships, students asked irrelevant questions about entrepreneurship and government's support for SMEs.. Can't blame the students though; most of them are very young L2/L3 students and naive, with a very exaggerated sense of the quality of their universities. Questions were led with statements like "I am Jane Smith, representing XYZ university, the number 1, premier, state-of-the-art institution in Africa..." (Ok that was retouched a little ). They then went on to ask googleable questions in order to sound bright.

If they had enough time and I'd been selected to ask a question, I'd have asked them to give us a realistic idea of how a top student from UI will fare against a 2:1 UCL grad if they both make the interview stage in London and performed well. I'd ask about the ratio of Ivy-league to non-ivy league students in their Wall Street office. I'd want to know if they have really communicated their mission of developing African talent in their European offices to the actual recruiters and interviewers on ground in Europe--since this panel seems very high-level and disengaged from the inherent recruitment bias. That event seemed more like a CSR gathering that'll look good on the end-of-year reports, but will unlikely translate to an actual recruitment drive (which they promised will happen in November). I don't blame these top firms though. I'm all for targeting, but not like the 'Harvard only' targeting in the 'Suits' series. Like Nitrogen said, if your dream is to be in the structured industry, it does make sense to get that rubber stamp from a globally-renowned university. The ROI is still well positive. Rankings do matter--international rankings that is.

When you consider that most of these companies, (especially financial institutions) who make their daily bread selling instruments to high net worth individuals (who attended these same institutions), then you would realize that it's really some sort of vicious cycle.

I doubt that highly technical jobs (which are not really 'global' jobs anyway) require Ivy-League education. Yes, you'd say well, Stanford, MIT, Caltech etc, hold some good grain with top tech companies like Apple, Facebook,Google and Microsoft. But these same companies are busy shipping in Chinese and Indian engineers into the US via H1B, and also opening up R & D centers all over the Far East. India, China, Malaysia, Singapore, we all know to be serious R & D hotspots. Even South Africa.

I will refrain from derailing the thread by posting the usual Nigeria lament which is typically, how our own be for all this one now

1)School'Brand' Matters very well
2)Shool matters
3) We can suceed despite not having either,
......but it matters
we can give examples of all 3 phenomena

-I am yet to see a Harvard trained graudate earning less than the equivalent of N300,000 per month
-I do see a number of 1st class grads from 'i drink garri universities' trying hard to sustain a 100 or 200 thousand naira a month, and then just giving it up the constant struggles and going for phd's

-someone from a 'branded' school might not be more intelligent than you, but would be more attractive to recruiters except she's plain dull

-Some that did not go to or finish school are extremely wealthy
-Many that did not go to school (at least in Nigeria) form the class of the poor
-Many that went to 'branded' schools are at least middleclass

esere826: 1)School'Brand' Matters very well
2)Shool matters
3) We can suceed despite not having either,
......but it matters
we can give examples of all 3 phenomena

-I am yet to see a Harvard trained graudate earning less than the equivalent of N300,000 per month
-I do see a number of 1st class grads from 'i drink garri universities' trying hard to sustain a 100 or 200 thousand naira a month, and then just giving it up the constant struggles and going for phd's

-someone from a 'branded' school might not be more intelligent than you, but would be more attractive to recruiters except she's plain dull

-Some that did not go to or finish school are extremely wealthy
-Many that did not go to school (at least in Nigeria) form the class of the poor
-Many that went to 'branded' schools are at least middleclass

I have not met a Harvard-trained business graduate earning less than the equivalent of 1 million a month. 300,000 is something a truly skilled, locally-trained graduate with 3 years experience should be able to reject comfortably. Sadly, Nigerians are happy settling, and justifiably so. Not like the jobs are really out there...

Sammy107_d: Indeed. Recently attended that Bank of America Merill Lynch event here in Lagos. The panel was composed of about 6 people. One from MIT, another from Warwick, one LSE, one Yale (I think this one studied some course in the Arts) etc... It was obvious that these guys were targeted, and the HR lady there somewhat mistakenly admitted that certain schools are targeted while she tried to prove that they have the best talent across the world.

Question time, and rather than ask some pertinent questions to probe the motive of their trip to Lagos and realistically assess their chances of securing graduate roles and internships, students asked irrelevant questions about entrepreneurship and government's support for SMEs.. Can't blame the students though; most of them are very young L2/L3 students and naive, with a very exaggerated sense of the quality of their universities. Questions were led with statements like "I am Jane Smith, representing XYZ university, the number 1, premier, state-of-the-art institution in Africa..." (Ok that was retouched a little ). They then went on to ask googleable questions in order to sound bright.

If they had enough time and I'd been selected to ask a question, I'd have asked them to give us a realistic idea of how a top student from UI will fare against a 2:1 UCL grad if they both make the interview stage in London and performed well. I'd ask about the ratio of Ivy-league to non-ivy league students in their Wall Street office. I'd want to know if they have really communicated their mission of developing African talent in their European offices to the actual recruiters and interviewers on ground in Europe--since this panel seems very high-level and disengaged from the inherent recruitment bias.

Hehehehe! Seriously, I pity us in this country, I was at an event too (biggest FMCG coy) around April or so, as a participant, we were told to ask questions, might it interest you that most were asking silly questions, like 'how do I become a major distributor of your products, why is it that you have limited number of distributors?' and other shitty questions, mind you this was a recruitment drive event. I was shocked, and the sad fact is that most graduated from our so called top universities and 'baddest' private unis around. It is a pity, I think we do not even have half-baked graduates in Nigeria. Most are quarter-baked.

esere826:

-I am yet to see a Harvard trained graudate earning less than the equivalent of N300,000 per month

300k per month? That's a ridiculous amount for someone that graduated from Harvard. In nigeria, havard trained guys are top shots, check out the two guys that owns Jumia, the MDs and big boys of and in multinational firms(harvard trained) and others. Most cannot even settle for anything less than a quarter of eight million per month.
It is those 'penkelemesi' school(useless UK universities) products that are looking out for crumbs from their masters' table.

NB: There are good schools in UK o, but they aren't much.

and www.facebook.com/theexcellentgroup answers all these questions

I AM A GRADUATE OF BANKING AND FINANCE,I REALLY NEED ADVICE ON ANY PROFESSIONAL COURSE I CAN DO TOO BOOST OR MAKE ME STAND OUT IN MY CAREER PLS..ICAN? CIBN? OTHER? PLS PROFESSIONAL ADVICE ONLY!...

nitrogen:

Hehehehe! Seriously, I pity us in this country, I was at an event too (biggest FMCG coy) around April or so, as a participant, we were told to ask questions, might it interest you that most were asking silly questions, like 'how do I become a major distributor of your products, why is it that you have limited number of distributors?' and other shitty questions, mind you this was a recruitment drive event. I was shocked, and the sad fact is that most graduated from our so called top universities and 'baddest' private unis around. It is a pity, I think we do not even have half-baked graduates in Nigeria. Most are quarter-baked.

It's the country itself, not really the students. The environment is still quite crass and primitive.

But LBS is doing some very good work, doing all the right things and building a strong alumni network. I have experienced them first hand, they are a breath of fresh air. It's impressive to see how they have focused on a specific area (business education), and are putting everything into it.

Give them another 20 years, with consistency, I see their brand growing by leaps and bounds. Their faculty is very impressive, Nigerians who are accomplished both in academics and business.

Ok, calm down guys...


I used 300,000 to signify that even if they wan volunteer free of charge in a company
the company go beg them to at least take N300,000 for lunch and transport

A Harvard graduate should not be looking for work in Nigeria in the first place
Which work is there to do in Nigeria that requires a Harvard grad?

Sammy107_d:

I have not met a Harvard-trained business graduate earning less than the equivalent of 1 million a month. 300,000 is something a truly skilled, locally-trained graduate with 3 years experience should be able to reject comfortably. Sadly, Nigerians are happy settling, and justifiably so. Not like the jobs are really out there...

They're not happy settling
you rightly said that the jobs are not there
(we could even break ^^ that further)

We must remember that beyond the quality or brand of school you attend, econonmic and social demand matters
-Obama's dad went to Havard and Obama's book says he ended up 'unemployed' and cast out
-Obama went to Havard and ended up as president

Distinction between black and white is rare
there are lots of shades of grey

AjanleKoko: A Harvard graduate should not be looking for work in Nigeria in the first place
Which work is there to do in Nigeria that requires a Harvard grad?

emm
But Nigeria is where they are needed most

I've been reading every bit of this thread, I must confess its really an interesting one. Yes, school really matters, I mean it goes along way. Its just so sad our system is terrible, the likes of Harvard, Stanford etc are also leveraging on the kind of environment they have & dats y their products seem to be exceptnal. Sincerely, if u put a Harvard in Nigeria, I don't think they will be as hyped as they are now, I stand to be corrected, but dats wat I think. Nigerian Graduates are very good, but our system is terrible and it will definitely affect our products. People should stop condemning our products, but look @ how they can change the system.

Also, people should not only look @ the academic side of schooling, but the social aspect. The ppl u meet especially go along way, networking and having connections are among other things you gain when you go to school. This has always been my motivation. I was taking a decision about enrolling 4 a professional course & a friend sed "I'll give u materials, u can read on your own" & I was like no no. I'll rada go 4 lecs not just 4 d academics, but the ppl&new friends I will make. We need ppl in our lives. #MyTake#

^^^
now that is a great take
it combines intelligent quotient with social quotient

So Harvard not only shapens your intelligence, it also presents a social network that you can leverage on to take you places, if you are upt to it

esere826:

emm
But Nigeria is where they are needed most

I respectfully differ.
Someone who goes to a very expensive, elite school like that, will come out feeling entitled. Not that it is a bad thing, but that is what it is.
Nigeria needs people in the trenches, who don't have any sense of entitlement, or a huge student loan awaiting repayment

AjanleKoko:

I respectfully differ.
Someone who goes to a very expensive, elite school like that, will come out feeling entitled. Not that it is a bad thing, but that is what it is.
Nigeria needs people in the trenches, who don't have any sense of entitlement, or a huge student loan awaiting repayment

yep, that is true
But it depends on how you got into Harvard. If daddy elrufai, the government or the other minister sponsored your education then you have no 'debt of damocles' hanging over your head

So it would make sense to repay society its own debt by folding your sleeves and jumping into our murky national terain where you can brink your skills and extensive network to bear in a greenfield area
-obama towed this path of social activism after graduation from Harvard

esere826:

yep, that is true
But it depends on how you got into the school. If daddy elrufai, the government or the other minister sponsored your education then you have no 'debt of damocles' hanging over your head

So it would make sense to repay society its own debt by folding your sleeves and jumping into our murky national terain
-obama towed this path of social activism after graduation from Harvard

Obama was angling for politics from Day 1. You think being the president of the Harvard Law Review was a coincidence?
The dude knew what he was doing. Social activism would provide the much-needed top-of-mind share that a black politician needs in America.

In the Naija case, after all we have the likes of Gani and Femi Falana (neither of whom went to Harvard by the way) as social activists who also became quite successful at practising law. Or Fola Adeola, a Yabatech graduate who founded GT, Fate Foundation, and is now a politician. Or GEJ, the current president who incidentally is a UNIPORT product.

What do you need a Harvard degree for in Nigeria? To talk about maternal mortality, a la Ngozi Iweala? LOL

What do you think about the bolded in Fola Adeola's wiki page?

"Fola started his education at St Paul's school BreadFruit, Lagos and then completed his secondary school education at Methodist Boys High School, Lagos. He obtained a Diploma in Accounting from Yaba College of Technology in 1975 and became a Chartered Accountant in 1980 following his training with Deloitte, Haskins and Sells and D.O. Dafinone & Company (both Chartered Accountants). Over the years he has received professional development training at notable institutions worldwide including Harvard Business School, INSEAD, and the International Institute for Management Development in Switzerland"

And Ribadu?

"Mr. Ribadu holds an LLM degree with emphasis on the jurisprudence of corruption in Nigeria from the Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria, Nigeria. In 2008, he was at the Harvard Business School where he did a program in the strategic management of law enforcement agencies"

Do you think these short executive courses really have the same perceived value as the actual degree programmes?

Sammy107_d: What do you think about the bolded in Fola Adeola's wiki page?

"Fola started his education at St Paul's school BreadFruit, Lagos and then completed his secondary school education at Methodist Boys High School, Lagos. He obtained a Diploma in Accounting from Yaba College of Technology in 1975 and became a Chartered Accountant in 1980 following his training with Deloitte, Haskins and Sells and D.O. Dafinone & Company (both Chartered Accountants). Over the years he has received professional development training at notable institutions worldwide including Harvard Business School, INSEAD, and the International Institute for Management Development in Switzerland"

And Ribadu?

"Mr. Ribadu holds an LLM degree with emphasis on the jurisprudence of corruption in Nigeria from the Ahmadu Bello University, Zaria, Nigeria. In 2008, he was at the Harvard Business School where he did a program in the strategic management of law enforcement agencies"

Do you think these short executive courses really have the same perceived value as the actual degree programmes?

The longest of those short courses usually runs for 3 weeks. They are focused development programs, not broad-based degree programs like an MBA.
They have their own value, certainly, and their own crowd for networking. The expectation is that people who attend these programs are already leaders in one capacity or the other, who need specific skills to support their current abilities.

That's why there are no pre-requisites for these courses. Even if you do not have any degree, you can attend them.